Saab2000 From Switzerland, joined Jun 2001, 1551 posts, RR: 11 Posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 914 times:
With all the capacity cuts and aircraft being parked it seems inevitable that there will the be a resultant reduction in overall flights, meaning fewer delays. At least fewer delays due to too many flights planned for too little space, primarily in the NE US.
Seems to me that even 5% fewer flights ought to result in an easing of the strained ATC system, especially between Washington DC and Boston.
Tango-Bravo From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3702 posts, RR: 34 Reply 1, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 779 times:
Quoting Saab2000 (Thread starter): With all the capacity cuts and aircraft being parked it seems inevitable that there will the be a resultant reduction in overall flights, meaning fewer delays. At least fewer delays due to too many flights planned for too little space, primarily in the NE US.
Although there may be fewer overall flight movements in the U.S., don't assume for a moment that the airlines won't continue to overschedule flights at well above airport capacities at the more popular departure/arrival times and during banked hub "pushes," with no let up in the resulting chronic delays at certain airports during certain hours. In which case the only "silver lining" to fewer flights with regard to effect on delays may be that there will be more slack for schedule recovery during off-peak hours.
Leave it to the U.S. legacy airlines to never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity; in this case to reduce delays in a meaningful way. We shall see whether they are consistent with this pronounced tendency.
MasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 4503 posts, RR: 8 Reply 3, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 753 times:
Quoting Saab2000 (Thread starter): With all the capacity cuts and aircraft being parked it seems inevitable that there will the be a resultant reduction in overall flights, meaning fewer delays.
If so, the government will use this as a reason to further delay ATC improvements.
PanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 11 Reply 4, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 735 times:
In the case of United, they seem to be focusing on the one airport that CAN handle the traffic it has, that being DEN. ORD's use-it-or-lose-it system of gates/slots will probably see virtually nothing lost, and SFO/IAD seem to be maintaining most of their flights.
Indeed, I think the Northeast Shuttle will continue, as will the relentless overcrowding of certain airports that can't handle half the traffic that's already scheduled. Only smaller airports (meaning "less profitable" ones) will notice any decline.
After all, if the market didn't dictate it, would LGA not be the RJ capital of the universe?
Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
FlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5536 posts, RR: 11 Reply 5, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 730 times:
Quoting Saab2000 (Thread starter): Seems to me that even 5% fewer flights ought to result in an easing of the strained ATC system, especially between Washington DC and Boston.
Have there been flight reductions in this sector?...
Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 2): i think it goes without saying there will be fewer delays
That isn't necessarily true. It's all in the eye of the beholder really. The guy that's traveling on those routes that may see 'increases' in the schedule will still feel the pain and conversly, someone who's flying out of an outstation that's seen deep cuts will be all but happy (but with the inconvenience of a trimed schedule, he's still upset...)
I don't think the hubs will get any better. A/C will still leave somewhere late thus cause another flight to be late and down the hill it goes.
Quoting Tango-Bravo (Reply 1): don't assume for a moment that the airlines won't continue to overschedule flights at well above airport capacities at the more popular departure/arrival times and during banked hub "pushes," with no let up in the resulting chronic delays at certain airports during certain hours
I think most airlines are trying to get away from the banked systems at their hubs although there will always be certain times of the day where you'll notice on the ops report that flights are leaving within minutes of each other, sometimes at the exact time.
CAM2:"Lightning coming out of that one." CAM1: "What?"
Saab2000 From Switzerland, joined Jun 2001, 1551 posts, RR: 11 Reply 6, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 710 times:
Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 5): Have there been flight reductions in this sector?...
I am not speaking particularly of DCA or IAD to BOS. But the whole corridor, including BWI, PHL, JFK, LGA, EWR and a whole bunch of other smaller fields like HPN, PVD, BDL, etc. Delays and congestion in this corridor are legendary.
Anwyay, this reduction I am talking about in capacity has not yet happened. But with United talking about grounding 100 airplanes and American also talking about reducing service it seems like there will be fewer flights and therefore fewer delays due to ATC congestion.
Bond007 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 4926 posts, RR: 10 Reply 7, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 677 times:
These delays have little to do with a 'strained ATC system'.
The major problems are too many aircraft trying to get into too few runways. ATC doesn't have much of a problem pointing 50 aircraft/hr towards PHL .... the problem is that most of the time PHL can only manage 36/hr ... and this is due to non-perfect weather conditions, lack of visual approaches, and therefore increased separation requirements.
You could fix this 'antiquated ATC system' but then you'd be shooting 100 planes/hr to PHL .... and guess what? There are some clouds at PHL, and the arrival rates are 36/hr... still!
Jimbo
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
EXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 8, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 648 times:
Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 5): That isn't necessarily true. It's all in the eye of the beholder really. The guy that's traveling on those routes that may see 'increases' in the schedule will still feel the pain and conversly, someone who's flying out of an outstation that's seen deep cuts will be all but happy (but with the inconvenience of a trimed schedule, he's still upset...)
invididual cases aside, i think he measn averall and yes fewer flights will translate into fewer delays. It remains to be seen where...Since LGA and DCA are slot controlled you might not see much improvement there as airliens will want to hold on the their slots and not let a competitior get them....UA grounding 100 planes will certainly impact SFO.
Saab2000 From Switzerland, joined Jun 2001, 1551 posts, RR: 11 Reply 9, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 619 times:
Quoting Bond007 (Reply 7): These delays have little to do with a 'strained ATC system'.
The major problems are too many aircraft trying to get into too few runways. ATC doesn't have much of a problem pointing 50 aircraft/hr towards PHL .... the problem is that most of the time PHL can only manage 36/hr ... and this is due to non-perfect weather conditions, lack of visual approaches, and therefore increased separation requirements.
You could fix this 'antiquated ATC system' but then you'd be shooting 100 planes/hr to PHL .... and guess what? There are some clouds at PHL, and the arrival rates are 36/hr... still!
Jimbo
You are correct. Still, there are times when even ATC can't keep up. But you are right about the airport capacity being more strained than the controllers. I guess that's kind of what I meant, but worded it poorly.
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