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Rising Fuel Costs! Which Are The Economic Aircaft  
User currently offlineNEMA From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2006, 810 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 12 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 3032 times:

Is there any such commercial airliner that is not a gas guzzler in its class?

It makes me wonder when the likes of Ryanair with its new fleet are talking about grounding aircraft in the current surging fuel cost climate and now BA are announcing similar ideas.

I am flying with BMi Baby in August on their ageing 737 300's, are they economic?

By comparison, I would have thought that Ryanairs 738's were pretty economic for their class yet they are to ground 20 or so.

There isnt really a dark side to the moon, as a matter of fact its all dark!
6 replies: All unread, jump to last
User currently offlineTommytoyz From Tonga, joined Jan 2007, 1353 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (7 years 12 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 3024 times:


Airlines need to think about sourcing their fuel differently, like AF-KL and VS are doing.

User currently offlineStarGoldLHR From Heard and McDonald Islands, joined Feb 2004, 1529 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (7 years 12 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 2925 times:

FR grounded part of it's fleet last winter... cleverly disguised as a pre-arranged sale of older aircraft at the end of the peak season and a gap before the new ones are delivered.

This reduced capacity at no cost to FR.

I would imagine they will do the same again this year.. and tell the public it's a grounding.

So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
User currently offlineEA772LR From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2838 posts, RR: 11
Reply 3, posted (7 years 12 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 2610 times:
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Economic aircraft in my mind would just depend on the route and operator. People talk about how much more efficient the 777 (which overall is) than the A340, but the 340 is still economical with certain applications otherwise we'd be seeing lots of airlines getting rid of them, but we aren't. I think that's a broad question. I would personally say your basics: ERJ /CRJ / A32X / 737NG / 757 on certain routes / A330 / A380 / 777. But like I said, it depends on the route and the airline, load factors, etc...

[Edited 2008-06-04 14:32:36]

We often judge others by their actions, but ourselves by our intentions.
User currently offlineKappel From Suriname, joined Jul 2005, 3533 posts, RR: 16
Reply 4, posted (7 years 12 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 2602 times:

Most important factor is: can you fill those aircraft (at a good yield). You can fly the most economic aircraft in it's class, but if you can't make money off the flight, there's no use. That's why FR is grounding some 738's for the winter.

User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 12 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 2534 times:

Ryanair and Easyjet fly their 737/320 on high frequency routes averaging 1 hour / 450 nm.

These aircraft are made to do 3000 nm with full passenger load. Versions cross the Atlantic.

IMO this means they are flying around ~20% / 6000 kg (~60 passengers) useless structure up to 8 flights a day.

The price of flexibility they didn't ask for. In the 150 seat segment there is simply no other option yet.

Then the engines, they have a bypass ratio of about 5, which was very good 25 years ago..

The backlog of 737/A320 is more then 6000 aircraft so don't expect agressive product developments form A & B or the engine OEMS. They have other priorities then making their cashcows absolete.

[Edited 2008-06-04 15:01:35]

User currently offlineCostastic From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (7 years 12 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 2478 times:

Generally speaking, the newer the aircraft the more efficient it is in terms of both fuel consumption and maintenance requirements. This is one reason why FR acquires new winglet-equipped 738s to replace older ones (normally around 7 years' old and retrofitted with winglets). Moreover, you'd hardly want old machines if you revolve around high aircraft productivity for the likelihood of aircraft breakdowns - which would seriously reduce the likelihood of achieving brilliant service reliability - would be much increased. Older aircraft might well be a hindrance to the achievement of high operational performance. And while leases on older aircraft (such as the 733) are much lower than on up-to-date machines, they'd probably end up costing you more in maintenance, fuel, turnarounds (multiple sectors per day might well require slightly longer turnarounds if you're to avoid punctuality problems), branding costs as a result of poorer on time performance, etc. If you're just starting up and using older aircraft, you might have "confidence costs," by which I mean the perceived fear by some that older aircraft are less safe - one of the reasons, I believe, that jetBlue acquired brand-new aircraft when it started.

[Edited 2008-06-04 15:06:07]

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