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Why Is Lufthansa So Successful?  
User currently offlineKrje1980 From Norway, joined Feb 2006, 193 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 24199 times:

As the title says - why is LH so successful? I keep hearing all the time about the airline making huge profits, and in today's aviation climate with rising fuel prices and competition from LCCs that really is an accomplishment. I recently flew LH from BGO to MAD and back via FRA, and was even served a HOT pasta meal, cookies and unlimited drinks on the 2 hours 20 minute flight from MAD to FRA. WIth all other airlines seemingly resorting to cut-backs in service and frills, how is LH able to do this? Surely the labor costs in Germany must be at about the same level as in any other Western country, and from what I understand most airlines in other Western countries are going through very tough times right now.

Would appreciate some thoughts from someone more versed in aviation business than myself  Smile

140 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTUNisia From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1844 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 24224 times:

Swiss is the most profitable part of the Lufthansa group.


Someday the sun will shine down on me in some faraway place - Mahalia Jackson
User currently offlineJush From Germany, joined Apr 2005, 1636 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 24165 times:



Quoting TUNisia (Reply 1):
Swiss is the most profitable part of the Lufthansa group.

yeah well your comment was just great and answered his question fully, I guess  sarcastic 

Anyway, I can't really answer your question but I can tell you that labour costs are pretty high in Germany. Also, LH is pretty good in hedging fuel risks in the last year so they can offset the higher fuel prices a little bit.


Regds
jush



There is one problem with airbus. Though their products are engineering marvels they lack passion, completely.
User currently offlineChristao17 From Thailand, joined Apr 2005, 941 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 24042 times:

You could probably credit good management and decent management-labor relations.


Keeping the "civil" in civil aviation...
User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 24047 times:

Because they have a good grip on their home market.

User currently offlinePlaneInsomniac From Canada, joined Nov 2007, 678 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 24040 times:

A good question, actually. Here a few (educated) guesses:

- Reasonable pricing. While ticket prices are often competitive, they never become "insane" as with other carriers. LH typically tries to compete by providing quality instead of the lowest price.
- Do not underestimate the advantage they have by being the largest and only comprehensive German-language carrier. This is certainly a factor in the travel planning of many Germans, who may not feel comfortable using an airline which does not (or only partially) provide German-language service.
- They do not waste money on nonsense like rebranding and/or repainting their fleet every two years, or on installing the latest gadgets such as (often non-functioning) AVOD IFEs, onboard satellite TV etc. They focus on providing a good core travel experience, and passengers appreciate this.
- Nice little services and amenities like free newspapers and coffee at their gates and even on short flights, free beverages and (often even hot) meals on most flights. This adds to a pleasant overall experience.
- They have a reputation for being reliable and punctual, and their staff is typically professional and friendly.
- They are organized well, with two big, efficient international hubs at FRA and MUC. Their fleet planning also seems reasonable.
- LH group is large and includes such activities as LH Technik for maintenance and their own in-house IT development. This contributes to the overall result.



Am I cured? Slept 5 hours on last long-haul flight...
User currently offlinePVG From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2004, 725 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 23962 times:

You could also talk about how they are the flag international carrier for the largest and most prosperous economy in Europe. A country which is also an high value export powerhouse that needs to send executives on long-haul trips and can afford to pay premium fares while doing so. They then piggy back on their base by picking-off high paying passengers from near-by countries who they get to connect in FRA and MUC. They also run a fairly new fleet and again, use their volume advantage (being big and owning/operating many aircraft) by offering tech services to smaller airlines who can't justify the expense of having a large in-house tech. staff, but need the service and pay for it.

These people know their business and run it well.

Don't understand why many of the large US airlines can't figure out how to do the same. They should at the least be combining their tech/maintenance operations. Do not really understand why every airline in the US needs to keep a huge fixed cost in-house tech staff. If the airlines don't merge, they should at least look at combining their maintenance ops.


User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 24
Reply 7, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 23963 times:

Contrary to many competitors,LH is a truely global carrier (except Australia ) offering much used transfer services through FRA and MUC. (..and increasinglythrough Zurich as well..) Many clients travel from US or South-America onwards to Asia or other European/Middle East destinations on the same carrier with the same quality of service.True is LH have rarely been spear-heading entertainment trends on their aircraft ,but that's not their key-selling point anyhow.
I's say their main ,top selling point is very efficient overall systems-reliability paired with fair price-performance ratio.
The technical expertise of "LH technics" does further improve their positive immage -the largest VIP Flagships will mostly be modified in Hamburg for a good reason.



Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlinePanais From Cyprus, joined May 2008, 463 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 23951 times:

They treat their planes as they treat their cars.

They have an excellent technical team that knows how to take care of their planes.

Their planes are depreciated over 12 years, which increases the profitability of any flight with a 12 year and older plane.


User currently offlineGlareskin From Netherlands, joined Jun 2005, 1307 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 23903 times:

Germany is booming for some years now, they have a solid management, a fine balanced fleet and the most important Star Alliance hubs in Europe.
And most importantly: they fly the economical A346 rather than the gas-guzzling 773..  Wink

Quoting Keesje (Reply 4):
Because they have a good grip on their home market.

I don't agree on that Keesje. They have competition from Air Berlin and/or Germanwings on practically all domestic routes.



There's still a long way to go before all the alliances deserve a star...
User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6920 posts, RR: 63
Reply 10, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 23867 times:



Quoting Krje1980 (Thread starter):
Why Is Lufthansa So Successful?

I can't decide if if all those Airbus widebodies or the fact that they have RR engines hanging underneath them...  stirthepot 


User currently offlineMIA From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 873 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 23855 times:



Quoting PlaneInsomniac (Reply 5):
- Do not underestimate the advantage they have by being the largest and only comprehensive German-language carrier. This is certainly a factor in the travel planning of many Germans, who may not feel comfortable using an airline which does not (or only partially) provide German-language service.

Exactly. This is the first thing that came to mind when I read the title of the post. Germans are very 'german' and so they make their travel choices that way.

It is no wonder to me that most Lufthansa flights to Miami are full of GERMANS, and why American Airlines cant fly to Germany out of Miami because it wont fill its plane with Germans.



"Like all great travelers, I have seen more than I remember, and remember more than I have seen."
User currently offlineNicoEDDF From Germany, joined Jan 2008, 1099 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 23745 times:



Quoting MIA (Reply 11):
Exactly. This is the first thing that came to mind when I read the title of the post. Germans are very 'german' and so they make their travel choices that way.

And so are the French chosing Air France, the Spanish flying Iberia, the Portuguese flying TAP, and the Americans prefering AA, UA, DL, US or whatever, no?

It surely helps, that Germany provides LH with a lot travellers paying premium fares. Nevertheless, I suppose smart fleet planning, competing on service rather than too low fares, professional, long term focused management and, yes, I have to agree to user Glareskin, the A346 helps LH greatly, compared to the inefficent T7 models, to achieve succesful business.

In addition, with LHT as maintenance arm, and several other sub-divisions providing uncyclical revenues (like insurance, consulting, ...) they have a bit of an offset agains weak years in pax-revenues.


User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4397 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 23729 times:

Lufthansa is considered a synonym to quality.
Very high technical quality is considered to mean to be as safe as possible within economic reasons.
A consistent service product adds to this. Nothing fancy, maybe slightly old fashioned - but that is what we all want.
They stick with a reasonable price. If a competitor opens a route and they cannot compete there, they pull out ( and try to cooperate ).
They have a friendly cooperative attitude even to the biggest competitor. When AF has a problem somewhere on this globe and LH can help faster, they do, and vice versa. They don't want to kill their competitor.
This does not mean that there is no competition. If you are price sensitive and do not mind an additional stop, it is most of the time cheaper to fly from FRA to AMS, LON or CDG and to continue from there than using LH, and many Germans do so - but - just looked out of the window - AF FRA-CDG is an A318.
There is not much high frequency flying with regional jets inside Germany. Regional jets connect some smaller airports to FRA or MUC two to three times a day to feed the long range and are used in between for connections that have better yields - over the Alps or over the North Sea.
Most short range traffic in Germany is done by high frequency high speed trains.


User currently offlineRobffm2 From Germany, joined Dec 2006, 1117 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 23706 times:

I guess what appeals most to high value travellers is their on time performance and reliability.

I've done this year following flights with Lufthansa / Swiss:

LH: FRA-GRU-FRA
LH: FRA-MAD
LX: MAD-ZRH-FRA
LH: FRA-HAM-FRA
LH: FRA-MUC-GRU-MUC-FRA

All flights (except one) on time. And even nice and friendly service in economy.

[Edited 2008-06-05 01:42:29]

User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21532 posts, RR: 59
Reply 15, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 23696 times:

Because like AF and BA, they are the dominant player in their nation and control a large number of slots to one of the most desirable airports in the world. Also, the original EU is a great transit point between Africa/SE Asia/SE Europe and the Eastern USA.


Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently onlineCRJ900 From Norway, joined Jun 2004, 2191 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 23493 times:
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Millions of passengers perceive LH to be a high-quality airline and are willing to pay the prices they charge, and that is one heck of a compliment worth its weight in gold. LH knows this.

LH is also self-confident enough to do what they think is best for the company, which is why, for instance, they have delayed introducing PTVs in Y until they felt sure that PTVs will "pay off" as it will be one more reason for continued customer loyalty and not just be an unnecessary cost.

I'm Scandinavian, but I no longer perceive SAS to be the high-quality carrier is once was perceived to be... surly FAs, zero service. I now preferably fly LH when going international and I'm very satisfied with them, even if the fare is higher on LH. LH's strategy works!



Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
User currently offlinePilot21 From Ireland, joined Oct 1999, 1384 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 23448 times:



Quoting Panais (Reply 8):
They treat their planes as they treat their cars.

They have an excellent technical team that knows how to take care of their planes.

I remember an aircraft engineer back in the early 90's telling me that LH planes are known in the industry for being very well maintained. The exact quote was ' if you buy a 2nd hand aircraft from Lufthansa, it is almost the same as buying a brand new one from Boeing. (remember the time period, Airbus weren't as big then). The quote has stuck with me and while it doesn't explain your question fully, gives a view into LH and how they are viewed by others in the industry.

Pilot21



Aircraft I've flown: A300/A310/A320/A321/A330/A340/B727/B732/B733/B734/B735/B738/B741/B742/B744/DC10/MD80/IL62/Bae146/AR
User currently offlineSteman From Germany, joined Aug 2000, 1391 posts, RR: 7
Reply 18, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 23416 times:

Someone mentioned the good hedging policy of LH on fuel.
A friend of mine who is a LH A300 captain, told me that the price they pay on fuel
should stay the same, regardless of market fluctuation, till Oct 08
Then there will be increase relevant to the subsequent hedging contracts, done in periods when fuel was already more expensive, which inevitably will reflect on fares.

Not sure if I have understood well his point, since I am not an expert.
But it makes sense.

Ciao

Stefano


User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4397 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 23412 times:



Quoting Pilot21 (Reply 17):
gives a view into LH and how they are viewed by others in the industry

... and by the public that books the flights.


User currently offlineAIR MALTA From Malta, joined Sep 2001, 2501 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 23304 times:



Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 16):
Millions of passengers perceive LH to be a high-quality airline and are willing to pay the prices they charge, and that is one heck of a compliment worth its weight in gold. LH knows this.

LH is also self-confident enough to do what they think is best for the company, which is why, for instance, they have delayed introducing PTVs in Y until they felt sure that PTVs will "pay off" as it will be one more reason for continued customer loyalty and not just be an unnecessary cost.

I don't thinks LH is as good quality as you seem to pretend. I do a lot of business and leisure trips out of Vienna and I would try to avoid LH for many reasons.

Travelling in Europe, I choose OS or BA. Fares are generally lower than those of LH and the inflight service is better. I

Travelling Intercontinental, I defenitely go BA or AF. Better inflight service and PTV. With BA you have the choice of WTP.



Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
User currently offlineSkane340 From Sweden, joined May 2008, 86 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 23286 times:

I live unfortunately for me (regarding air travel) for me in the south of Sweden. I prefer LH over SAS due to the fact that the service on LH is much better and that LH is more on schedule than SAS and the last reason SAS strikes more often.

I travel twice a year to both FRA-BLR and FRA-GRU (sometimes ZRH-GRU with Swiss), there is hardly any delay worth mentioning.

I must say that i prefere SWISS on the flight to GRU as they have business seating 2+2+2 instead of LH 2+3+2.


User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 23259 times:

Domestic passengers everywhere seem to prefer the home carrier because of tradition, national sentiments and the superior connections and frequencies they offer.

National carrier can charge their domestic customers more because of that.

Foreigh customers look at those carriers differently more value for money like.

If you have a good grip on a big home market (LH, BA, AF, QF, NWA) that is a good basis to expand internationally. Airlines that don't (SQ, KLM, EK) have to fight their way inat lower margins.

Objectively looking at hard product specs, LH has a very average product. Many germans no doubt FEEL totally different about that & are willing to pay the price.


User currently offlineMacc From Austria, joined Nov 2004, 1042 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 23218 times:



Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 20):
I do a lot of business and leisure trips out of Vienna and I would try to avoid LH for many reasons.

I do the same, about 60 flights a year average. On shorthaul, I like OS as the catering is quite nice in Y. Due to M&M, all my long hauls are on *A carriers, 90% on LH. PTV might be an add on, but then I am not addicted to watching TV, so thats no reason fof me not to be on LH.

My experience on BA to HKG and MNL 10 years ago made me decide to avoid this airline in the future and so far I havent been seen on BA again.

My impressions of LHR and CDG havent been good either, and even if FRA is a mess most of the times, with MUC as an alternative and MUC and FRA only 1 hour away from VIE, thats just the best choice.



I exchanged political frustration with sexual boredom. better spoil a girl than the world
User currently offlineRheinwaldner From Switzerland, joined Jan 2008, 2226 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 23187 times:

Is LH more successfull than AF and BA anyway? I am under the impression all three of these do well.

25 Ikramerica : They do, because…
26 Skane340 : I can not agree on AF, I have used them twice the last 3 years and that will hopefully not happen again. AF = the service was bad, the food was bad,
27 Birdwatching : That is not quite correct. Parts of LH's fleet are rather old, and that's part of the success story. Look at the 744 fleet, many frames almost 20 yea
28 Enginebird : Well, it depends on what you define as "very average" and especially what the "hard product specs" are. Is the "product" defined by video on demand o
29 TomFoolery : This is a bit subjective. Depending on some of the fares, I have spent over $1100.00 on a flight from MUC to TLS, which is non stop, and 1,5 hours lo
30 Sshank : I always thought that clubmix on Channel 6 on Lufthansa Radio (by Piet Blank of Black and Jones fame) had something to do with it.
31 CptRegionalJet : Well,yes and no.Just wait a couple of weeks.Things are heating up right now....
32 TommyBP251b : But these were only Cargo planes. LH never had an MD-11 or DC-8 passenger plane.
33 Flymad : AFAIC their prices are insane. I'm planning a trip to the USA from South Africa in January. LH prices R11440.00 (+/- 1486 USD) more than either BA/VA
34 Ty134A : Well,... we in Austria (not Australia, the small country, Schwarzenegger,...) as well speak German, Austrian serves a very good network through easte
35 Airbazar : As someone already said, excellent management and management-labor relationship combined with a good grip on reality from both sides. Rather than foll
36 JFK787NYC : This is the same current situation on all flight coming to the United States from Europe. The only two carriers that are currently profiting from thi
37 Glareskin : I cannot see how LH is different than AF of BA as for home market dominance or slot control of the main hub(s). You can get almost all domestic and a
38 Christao17 : Actually, yes. People often do prefer flying a home country carrier. Not everyone, of course, but there are plenty of Americans who, if flying overse
39 RFields5421 : Size - OS is simply too small to achieve the economies of scale which LH and other large carriers can achieve. If you sell 100 widgets a day and make
40 Enginebird : Well, one example does not show that LH's prices are "insane" or higher than BA's or SA'a in general. I would probably be easy to find certain routes
41 NG1Fan : I have flown on OS and LH extensively while I lived in Russia. And I must say that the OS service is the more 'charming' one. However, hard to beat ar
42 Ota1 : Germanwings is kind of a subsidiary of LH... it is fully owned by Eurowings which LH owns a 49% stake in plus having a call option for the remaining.
43 RFields5421 : What are the numbers of passengers carried on domestic routes within Germany by: Lufthansa - including Contact, Augsburg, Eurowings and other subsidi
44 Burkhard : Isn't it agreed that an "insane" price here is a price that is too low, leading to bankruptcy, while a sane price is a high price that just is so high
45 Mutu : Quite tiresome pedalling that old mantra out again. In the case of BA, they fly far fewer shorthaul passengers than FR (an Irish airline with its mai
46 AIR MALTA : Now try BA through T5 and you will enjoy both BA and T5.
47 Columba : Not only the same level but one of the highest labor costs in the world. Maybe that will change soon when the A380/A350/787 arrive. Australia has bec
48 PanHAM : only about a third of the passengers are Germany or people living in Germany. Many Germans, especially those unfrequwent flyers, rather not use LH bu
49 Ota1 : That's not correct. LH was a major DC-10 (introduced in 1974) operator and among the first Airlines to fly Airbusses namely A300 (1976) and A310 (ord
50 Post contains links and images Boeing727 : In general I have noticed that Lufthansa airplanes are extremely clean compared to their competition.. View Large View MediumPhoto © Charles Poli
51 Caspritz78 : Because LH had some painful experiences in the 90ties and after 9/11. LH had to make drastic cuts in fleet size and network size. Unlike for example t
52 Burkhard : Cleaner than Air France, but that's an old joke.
53 GlobeEx : Well, however LH does have a very extensive network in Easter Europe, and they are doing really well, specially from Munich. That is absolutly not tr
54 Jariarkko : I'm looking at this from a customer perspective. I try to fly with LH whenever I can. Even if I'm based in Finland and Gold on SAS -- that gives some
55 Flyglobal : One thing has set all the ground: When LH was turned from a national government owned airline into a private airline they had excellent managers to do
56 HBJZA : Your statement is wrong. LH is NOT the only german speaking carrier. What about OS and LX. They are both airlines based in german speaking areas.
57 AirNZ : No, not only "because of" at all. Yes, but the thread is actually nothing about comparing market share or dominence of any US carrier with LH so I'm
58 Tangowhisky : LH is a successful company because they are more than just an airline. Unlike all US carriers who have stripped away many parts of their business, LH
59 PlaneInsomniac : Just to clarify my original statement: What I was trying to say is that LH's prices are never insanely LOW. Or, as another way of putting it: They al
60 ZRH : Yes, but you have to admit that LX is part of the LH group, although being an own brand and an airline with own management. With about 400 mi € net
61 Goldorak : Yes the 3 are doing well. However, I think BA lags now behind AF/KL & LH/LX due to LHR mess and saturation
62 Ikramerica : I didn't say only. But it's a large part. If LH wasn't based in Germany, with it's large population base and the prime international destination know
63 Tobi3334 : A few weeks ago I had my first LH long haul experiance (FRA-PEK-FRA) and I was really suprised how good it was. I found the Economy seat not very comf
64 Carledwards : Does anyone have any evidence to back this up? I have never heard this before
65 ZRH : As for the part of the question regarding SWISS I only can say (as already posted) that SWISS contributed about 1/5 of to LH's profit in 2007 with 40
66 Leskova : The coffee machines at the gates were deactivated years ago... at least for most of the flying public. I think they're still available at the "Busine
67 ARGIEPILOT : Last year I flew in one of LH's A300. Wow! That A300 looked brand new! Splendid! An aircraft that well kept could last indefinitely. BTW, what a wond
68 A342 : At least in MUC, I'm 99% sure they're still operational. I wonder how you come to this conclusion. Most people on here clearly prefer MUC over FRA.
69 ZRH : Me too. When ever possible I avoid FRA as I do LHR and CDG. From all LH/LX hubs MUC and ZRH a fare more convenient and much better than FRA.
70 Leskova : Experience... personal experience, that is. I've almost never connected through MUC without problems: either heavy delays while arriving (with me com
71 PlaneInsomniac : I am not 100% sure, but I think I saw active coffee machines even recently at some airports. Anybody can confirm? In any case, the selection of free
72 A342 : I'm sorry that you had these experiences. Never happened to me at MUC, though I must say that don't fly very often. Was that before T2 became operati
73 Leskova : Part yes, part no - most of my connections were pre-T2-opening, but I lived in Munich for the first three months of 2004, so that was with T2 already
74 Pilot320 : maybe they've just a good accountants?
75 Tolmachevo : At all gates in MUC T2 and FRA T1 A, unlimited tea, coffee plus english (speaking) & german newspapers for ALL passengers regardless of airline / cla
76 Post contains images Qantas744ER : Our formula is quite simple! Leo
77 Post contains links and images Viscount724 : Never say never. LH leased a DC-8-51 for about 6 months in 1965. It was the only passenger DC-8 ever to wear LH livery. It also happened to be the ve
78 Robffm2 : The coffee machines are still there in MUC T2.[Edited 2008-06-05 13:46:35]
79 Leskova : Regarding the coffee/tea: not at the gates around A40 in T1 at FRA... ... and definitely not at the gates where flights to ZRH depart (B30-B33): I've
80 AirNZ : With respect, this is playing with words to a large extent. For a start, I never said you said "only"......it wasn't required because you clearly gav
81 Farnborough24 : I'd like to see flights by more European airlines to Australasia, but I think it's very unlikely. BA seem barely able to sustain an operation there,
82 Pihero : Why is Lufthansa a successful airline ? The answer, as always lies in many fields but amongst the main reasons, one cannot forget that : 1/- It has a
83 DfwRevolution : Tap the brakes. LH was launch customer for the albatross known as Boeing Connexion in-flight wireless internet. They fitted the satellite equippment
84 AirNZ : I agree entirely with your point. However, as to BA, I personally believe it's more of a case as in many markets where they have systematically withd
85 Airbazar : MUC is by far the best connecting airport in Europe. I don't buy it. That explains it. You haven't been to MUC in years and you're claiming that it i
86 Hypercott : Now, I would not say that the decision to go with in-flight internet was bad -- how could they have known that Connexion would go out of business whe
87 Viscount724 : And don't forget the Star Alliance headquarters is FRA.
88 PVG : That wasn't their fault. I miss connexion, was a regular user. Great time to catch up on emailing.
89 DfwRevolution : I'm not faulting LH, please read the post to which I was replying. LH invested in a sophisticated IFE system that went defunct. That completely contr
90 Farzan : Absolutely right on. Although transfer in FRA is a nightmare and requires a minimum 1.5 hours, somehow LH manage to get a lot of not least Scandinavi
91 Hypercott : I disagree (to some extent): LH made (at least that's my assumption), the decision to get in-flight internet, because it gave them a huge edge (in pa
92 RFields5421 : Because the OP placed the question in those terms, and most of the replies on the thread are comparing LH against other airlines. What is LH doing ri
93 Giosetti : Many things have been said here that make sense. However I think the above is a key factor: management is in for the long run. Another key factor is
94 Flyglobal : I took OS128 many times in the morning to head through Vienna to Delhi. I didn't need a coffee machine there as I got a very good breakfast (business
95 Vio : I can tell you why I fly Lufthansa: 1. Safe 2. Reliable 3. Professional service 4. Descent pricing 5. Many destinations / connection possibilities ...
96 Post contains links Flyglobal : Quoting Tangowhisky (Reply 58): LH is a successful company because they are more than just an airline. Unlike all US carriers who have stripped away m
97 Connector4you : ...and perhaps they don't hire "wanna be managers" their relatives and friends. What's wrong with starting at the bottom, work very hard, learn the bu
98 Burkhard : That is a very good point. We will see again that when Mayrhuber leaves, they have at least two candidates in house to replace him, who is even accep
99 PM : Could NOT agree more! Offensive, nasty, humourless junk! SR (or LX?!) used to show them. (Maybe still do.) I hated them. And I recently flew Asiana f
100 Farzan : So will SK be the next take-over?
101 Burkhard : SN and BD first. SK has too many political side constraints and to much influence of the unions - almost an Alscandinavia. And there are more brides
102 NicoEDDF : Despite being then only two with this oppinion, I have to agree on this. The connections in MUC I had where horrible, as I HATE running from one gate
103 Columba : Okay I was not right with the year but the point is the same: until the Dc 10 arrived LH was all Boeing.
104 Airbazar : I don't agree. Wireless internet access can't possibly be anywhere as complex to install and support, or as expensive as PTVs. The fact that you need
105 NA : Of all flights I´ve done probably 80% were with Lufthansa. And this airline has never, in more than a 100 flights, given me any reason why I should c
106 BCAL : Pihero has given some good reasons in Reply #82 why LH is so successful but it boils down to good management, good management-staff relations, diversi
107 NicoEDDF : But then again, thats of course language wise, BA is in no stand alone position whatsoever. LH is! If you want to be treated in your mother tongue as
108 VV701 : While BA lags behind AF/KL and LH/LX - for example latest operating profit figures are 1.376 billion euros for LH/LX, 1.405 billion euros for AF/KL a
109 Post contains images Keesje : He, its friday afternoon. Lets stop being - they ordered the Do 728, A340-600 and 747-8i. - had no IFE in economy when even the most conservative airl
110 EDDB : Not mentioned before.... While others cut back or ditched First class LH was and is going for the high-yield-pax... Having your own little checkin ter
111 Columba : It is not LH´s fault that Dornier went bankrupt. I strongely believe that if Dornier would have been saved the Do 728 would have been more succesful
112 NA : Wonderful. Great planes, the last two at least. One point more to fly LH that they didn´t order 773s instead! I prefer to fly in a safe plane than h
113 Caspritz78 : An people still flew them. And you still get free wine, sekt and beer even hard liquor for free while other airline charge you $5. Still Lufthansa fl
114 Gisors : Actually, the stats issued by the European Airlines Association show that: .1 LH suffers more strikes than any other European carrier (at least for t
115 NicoEDDF : And not to forget the five Mio people living there in contrast to 3.5-4 Mio in Berlin. Rhein-Main area after all consists of 4 large cities (5 if Man
116 Leskova : So what would you say has changed in MUC since about 1 year ago, when I last used the airport? Or since all of the times I've used it since T2 opened
117 A342 : Same with: Our aircraft are maintained by Lufthansa Technik. I'd say their MRO and flight training organizations are among the most respected worldwi
118 Airbazar : Nothing. I use MUC about twice a year and have never experienced any of what you describe since LH moved to T2. In fact, IIRC you're the only person
119 PlaneHunter : So what? There are enough "safe" carriers out there which have had modern IFE for a long time. And there are people who read dozens of books per year
120 Post contains links and images Keesje : I think it is behind the pack again. Not horizontal flat. No aisle access, Middle seats, 60 inch pitch. Like in the past: introducing a product that
121 Plairbus : First of all there are other German Airlines and old ones so it is not true that Germans only know LH, there is LTU, CONDOR, Hapag Lloyd etc... What I
122 Post contains images Viscount724 : "All Boeing" if you don't count Convair, Lockheed and Vickers. When LH commenced post-WWII operations in 1955 their first new aircraft types were Con
123 NA : Thats the "I don´t care"-thinking that we need so our planet will go down. Most of these a less successful than LH. And there are people who don´t
124 Flyglobal : Keesje, I agree with you that LH business class is not anymore top notch in terms of race for pole position or podium. Your pictures are a bit messle
125 Aither : They are just... experts, real ones. I've worked with LH network planning guys and these are not young guns from business schools or rely on external
126 Farzan : Several posts in this thread suggest that part of the LH sucess is due to Germans being so German. It is not completely like that. I work for very big
127 PlaneHunter : We are talking about premium products on aircraft here, just to remind you. Now tell me one carrier which has decided to install less advanced (and t
128 Leskova : If you bothered to read the thread, you'd find out that I'm not the only one. And whether you like it or not, that's just plain and simply what I hav
129 Columba : is that they will the 747 for years All Boeing jet aircraft don´t be so nit picky. LH did not want the Bac 1-11 (which they were supposed to order)
130 JGPH1A : LH have now outsourced their primary passenger service systems (Reservations, Inventory, Fares+Pricing, E-commerce and soon Ticketing and DCS) to Ama
131 PanHAM : Commoin praqctice in the industry. From FRA, I susually get better C fares via OS or LX or SK, not speaking of oneworld carriers. The CEO is Austrian
132 Brilondon : I think that it is the whole package service, price and attitude of its employees. The last one is very important as it leads to good customer relatio
133 Caspritz78 : New first class is in development and will come in 2009.
134 A342 : I hope you realize that the JL, AF/KL and EK seats are essentially the same? They might look fancier with a bigger PTV, but that's it.
135 Mir : But so often it's the soft product specs that make the difference in a passenger's impression of the trip. Take Southwest. Objectively, by hard produ
136 Icelandair : If you quote statistics why don't you provide a source? I couldn't find anything on the AEA website about strike impact on airlines and their punctua
137 Keesje : Flightglobal I mostly agree, only stirring the pot after it became a bit sticky aorund here The airlines I mentioned (BA, KL, SQ, CX, VS aren't bad e
138 Plairbus : This question is the same like asking why Germany playing soccer is always in the final when they never play better than other teams.. It is German so
139 Gisors : Lufthansa Technik is top notch, but hey, Air France Industries and KLM Engineering & Maintenance aren't bad either. Interestingly, each of those subsi
140 CityofAthens : As I fly on BA 99% of the time (on non-rev tickets) I have only ever flown LH once (an A340-600 from FRA to ICN). To my amazement (perhaps due to my i
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