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Map Of U.S Showing Number Of Seats By State  
User currently offlineMSYtristar From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 6520 posts, RR: 51
Posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 6930 times:

Here's a link to a USA Today blog which details a map of the U.S and a comparison between October '07 and October '08 in terms of daily seats from each state and the corresponding main cities in each state.

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/news/2008-05-30-airline-cutbacks_N.htm

It's interesting to note that only 9 states are seeing an increase in seats:

CO (DEN up 2.1%), IN, LA (MSY up 5.4%), ME, ND, SD, VT, WA (SEA up 0.3%), and WY


It also shows nine airports around the nation which have seen a big decrease in daily seats:

HNL (-23.4%)
OAK (-20.1%)
MCI (-15.8%)
SNA ( -12.6%)
MDW (-12.4%)
CVG (-12.4%)
LAS (-11.8%)
RDU (-10.9%)
MCO (-10.0%)

24 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineXJET From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 491 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 6891 times:

I saw that article the other day. It was very interesting and had some good figures in it. As usual the leisure destinations are being hit first. And what the heck got added in WY?

User currently offlineRadarbeam From Canada, joined Mar 2002, 1310 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 6804 times:

Quoting XJET (Reply 1):
And what the heck got added in WY?

There was a C152 that stopped there for fuel last week




Just kiddin' of course WY is a beautiful state.

[Edited 2008-06-06 13:14:02]

User currently offlineRFields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7590 posts, RR: 32
Reply 3, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 6795 times:

Quoting XJET (Reply 1):
And what the heck got added in WY?

Two daily B1900D's ?

When dealing with percentages, small changes in small areas make big percentage changes:

GCC up 73.4% to 230 seats per day
COD up 34.3% to 134 seats per day
JAC up 29.5% to 663 seats per day

The entire state is only 1,679 seats per day - that's almost the daily total of SBA in California.

Now look at CO
DEN up 2.1% to 82,685 seats per day

2.1% = 1,701 seats per day - more than the whole state of WY

And I agree Wyoming is a lovely state - I'd like to be able to visit there more often.

[Edited 2008-06-06 13:17:00]

User currently offlineMax550 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 1147 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 6795 times:



Quoting XJET (Reply 1):
And what the heck got added in WY?

It shows Gillette as the highest increase in WY, looked it up and it appears it went from almost no flights to a few flights. Not a big increase in seats, but as a percentage compared to how many seats there used to be, huge increases.


User currently offlineRFields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7590 posts, RR: 32
Reply 5, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 6760 times:

BTW - the raw data is BADLY FLAWED

It is based on the OAG from June 2 with the schedules for Oct 2008

That does not yet include all the cuts recently announced by AAL, COA, UAL and others including some sure to be announced by other airlines.

These are reduced capacities/ seats BEFORE the latest cuts hit the system.


User currently offlineHatbutton From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1500 posts, RR: 14
Reply 6, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 6722 times:

SNA sort of surprises me. Was that just due to Aloha shutting down or more? I've always known SNA to be one of those airports with a long waiting list for coveted slots and everyone begging to get in there.

User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21474 posts, RR: 60
Reply 7, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6707 times:



Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 3):
When dealing with percentages, small changes in small areas make big percentage changes:

Yeah, it's very typical USA today stuff. The graphic is about changes per state, but treats each state as an equal when it comes to the map. But adding one flight to Montana or Maine can have a big impact that is still statistically insignificant when compared to another state.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5790 posts, RR: 15
Reply 8, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6645 times:



Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 5):
BTW - the raw data is BADLY FLAWED

It is based on the OAG from June 2 with the schedules for Oct 2008

That is very important and bears repeating.

There are still lots of schedule changes and flight entry to do.

To say that graphic is what will actually happen is very premature.



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineMtnWest1979 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 2427 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 6375 times:
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And SkyWest/DL Conn will commence service to Rock Springs in July, as well as Gillette from SLC. 2x day.


"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6710 posts, RR: 32
Reply 10, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 6267 times:



Quoting Hatbutton (Reply 6):
SNA sort of surprises me. Was that just due to Aloha shutting down or more?

Part of it would also be AS cutting OAK-SNA.


User currently offlineThomasphoto60 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3922 posts, RR: 23
Reply 11, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 6176 times:

Damn, looks like IAH is going to take a whooping 9% loss! While I did not look at all the 'big city' hub airports, none of the ones that I looked at (DFW, ORD, EWR, ATL, ect....) will suffer as much of a loss as IAH, though MCO and LAS will be taking a bigger hits, I suspect this is due in large part that they are leisure markets.

Thomas



"Show me the Braniffs"
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21474 posts, RR: 60
Reply 12, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 6111 times:



Quoting Thomasphoto60 (Reply 11):
Damn, looks like IAH is going to take a whooping 9% loss!

This is domestic though. I don't think CO is cutting much international flying.

And I don't think this takes into account the unspecified cuts CO just announced, either, unless they just used a number from CO like "will cut 7000 seats" or something like that.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5353 posts, RR: 15
Reply 13, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 6076 times:

SAN shows down 5%. Understandable with AQ gone, a lot of XE cut, AA and AC already-announced cuts; I agree that this will get worse. (I hope USA will do another revised October 2008 count in October of November...) Gulp.

Thanks for linking to this, 'tristar.

bb


User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 6044 times:



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 12):
Quoting Thomasphoto60 (Reply 11):
Damn, looks like IAH is going to take a whooping 9% loss!

This is domestic though. I don't think CO is cutting much international flying.

remember this does not include the latest cuts.


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21474 posts, RR: 60
Reply 15, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 5990 times:



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 14):
remember this does not include the latest cuts.



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 12):
And I don't think this takes into account the unspecified cuts CO just announced, either, unless they just used a number from CO like "will cut 7000 seats" or something like that.

Does 14 come before 12 now?  Wink



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7531 posts, RR: 8
Reply 16, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 5951 times:



Quoting XJET (Reply 1):
And what the heck got added in WY?

NW restarted service to Jackson Hole could be a part of it. I think UA has added larger aircraft to Jackson Hole as well.



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlinePVD757 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3411 posts, RR: 17
Reply 17, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 5907 times:



Quoting MSYtristar (Thread starter):
It also shows nine airports around the nation which have seen a big decrease in daily seats:

HNL (-23.4%)
OAK (-20.1%)
MCI (-15.8%)
SNA ( -12.6%)
MDW (-12.4%)
CVG (-12.4%)
LAS (-11.8%)
RDU (-10.9%)
MCO (-10.0%)

MHT (-11.5%)
PVD (-11.1%)


User currently offlineAither From South Korea, joined Oct 2004, 858 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 5853 times:

Not all the airlines have yet reported their schedule for oct 2008. I wonder how they have built this chart ?


Never trust the obvious
User currently offlineRampart From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 3103 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4594 times:



Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 5):
BTW - the raw data is BADLY FLAWED

It is based on the OAG from June 2 with the schedules for Oct 2008

That does not yet include all the cuts recently announced by AAL, COA, UAL and others including some sure to be announced by other airlines.

These are reduced capacities/ seats BEFORE the latest cuts hit the system.



Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 8):
To say that graphic is what will actually happen is very premature.

?? It's not "flawed" at all. It is what it is, changes in seats per state at the given dates. The explanation under the title clearly states that the bigger cuts are coming this fall, and that their data are preliminary.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 7):
Yeah, it's very typical USA today stuff. The graphic is about changes per state, but treats each state as an equal when it comes to the map. But adding one flight to Montana or Maine can have a big impact that is still statistically insignificant when compared to another state.

Your point about the flaws of the graphic are accurate. I believe they still teach this in middle school math, so if anyone doesn't realize it already, it's their own damn fault. It's a very common cartographic technique -- overgeneralizing, yes -- but seen in everything from USA Today to Rand McNally to research literature. The USA Today map helps correct this generalization by allowing you to scroll over the state and identify the individual cities' statistics. Nice! Rand McNally does not do that.

Everyone's on the statistical warpath today! Sheesh!

-Rampart


User currently offlinePhelpsie87 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 498 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4263 times:



Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 16):
I think UA has added larger aircraft to Jackson Hole as well.

JAC currently sees 2x 757's, 2x A319's, and 1 Dash-8, Sunday-Friday from DEN, which increases to 4x A319, 2x 757, and 1x DH8 daily on Saturday's. They also see 2x A319 service from ORD Sunday-Friday, with an additional A319 flight on Saturday's...

Not bad for J-Hole...you would almost think its winter time.


User currently offlineAlphascan From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 937 posts, RR: 13
Reply 21, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 3777 times:



Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 16):
NW restarted service to Jackson Hole could be a part of it. I think UA has added larger aircraft to Jackson Hole as well.

F9 started A319 service to Jackson Hole last week.



"To he who only has a hammer in his toolbelt, every problem looks like a nail."
User currently offlinePlanefxr From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 443 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 3676 times:



Quoting XJET (Reply 1):
And what the heck got added in WY?


Natural Gas well sites by the dozens, wind generators by the hundreds and of course Oil, Coal and uranium. Lots of resources and companies moving to extract them. The economy in Wyoming is doing rather well.


User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12890 posts, RR: 100
Reply 23, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3064 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 5):
That does not yet include all the cuts recently announced by AAL, COA, UAL and others including some sure to be announced by other airlines.

These are reduced capacities/ seats BEFORE the latest cuts hit the system.

That is scary. While some flights weren't scheduled that will occur for October, what is even scarier is that this graphic is prior to the removal of about 250 aircraft from service that was announced with the recent quarterly reports.  Sad

The local (South Bay, LA) restaurants are hurting; that indicates discretionary demand is going down. Now Hawaii took a hit from a mix of the Aloha shutdown *and* reduced demand.  Sad Unfortunately, as an industry, there is still some medicine to take.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offline767Lover From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 2752 times:

I didn't realize that Delaware has no commercial air service.

I also didn't realize just how many more seats ATL has versus other major airports (granted, most large cities have 2 commercial airports).


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