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Will GSP Ever Land A Networked Low Fare Carrier?  
User currently offlineGSP psgr From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 163 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 6164 times:

I was wondering if there's any hope of GSP landing a networked LCC any time soon; the airport suffers a lot of leakage to ATL and CLT, and not without good reason-with a bit of shopping, one can often get fares from CLT to most places for as little as half to a third as much. Of my last three trips, only one (PVD) began at GSP; with the other two (PIT and PDX), being out of Charlotte. Not that Allegiant isn't great, but I don't often travel to Florida, so they are kind of useless for me.

It also seems that GSP isn't alone; there are a bunch of cities, especially in the Southeast which fall into a sort of LCC purgatory-too small for Southwest, too close to FL's ATL hub to make sense from a CASM standpoint, too far from F9s DEN hub to work, and B6's JFK operation is already crammed.

Among the networked LCCs, my appraisal is the following:
JetBlue: JFK is too congested, no other logical hubsite access.

Southwest: No longer seemingly does mid-sized markets; focused on conquering the PHLs and DENs of the country. My guess is that they'll hit something between RDU, BNA, and BHM eventually, but it won't be us.

Frontier: I know that the airport authority here tried to lure F9 (with a $1 million subsidy; they wanted double that) into starting 2x daily E170s, but I always thought that F9 and DEN were a stretch and we would be better suited to a carrier which had a hub in either the Eastern or Midwestern timezone.

AirTran: They said they weren't interested in coming to GSP because they're already getting leakage from people driving down I-85 to Atlanta. The other problem for them is that they haven't much (if any) gate space left at Hartsfield, and more importantly, with fuel prices being the way they are the CASM on a short stage length like GSP-ATL would be horrific.

However, if FL was ever to get into the Q400 game from ATL, they could do extremely well- I could easily envision them hitting a lot of DL/US hub captive markets in the Southeast with this model; plus I could see them also replacing 717s on short hops like ATL-SAV/CHS/MEM. Those 717s could then hit places like BTV and PWM (plus new markets). As far as gate space goes, you could park them at Hartsfield in front of the old NW DC-9 hangar and bus the passengers from the old Eastern commuter operation at the end of Concourse C.

Other thoughts?

17 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 6147 times:

I think GSP could work for FL if they bypassed ATL. Offer service to BWI (multiple connection opportunities), MCO (That's a pre-merger route that disappeared when the former Manatee hub was dismantled and many of the routes transferred to ATL.), and maybe BOS, FLL, TPA, IND, or MKE.

User currently offlineGSP psgr From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 163 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 6055 times:



Quoting Srbmod (Reply 1):
I think GSP could work for FL if they bypassed ATL. Offer service to BWI (multiple connection opportunities), MCO (That's a pre-merger route that disappeared when the former Manatee hub was dismantled and many of the routes transferred to ATL.), and maybe BOS, FLL, TPA, IND, or MKE.

Hmm
MCO-Yeah, that would definitely be a winner once daily with a 717
BWI-Again, once daily would work, though I have my doubts about pushing any more than 1X. If there were a few more connection opportunities ex-BWI, then maybe.
MKE/IND-Would never work....however.....
MDW-I think a once daily MDW flight with a 717 could be a winner.
BOS-Maybe if you paired it with one of the Florida cities on a routing like FLL-GSP-BOS and return. Still it would likely be a stretch.
FLL/TPA-See BOS

As for Atlanta, I think that FL could definitely get away with a first in (530A), last out flight to feed connections that aren't accessible from BWI, MCO, and MDW.


User currently onlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22939 posts, RR: 20
Reply 3, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 6028 times:



Quoting Srbmod (Reply 1):
I think GSP could work for FL if they bypassed ATL.

Do we know how BTV and PSM are working?

Quoting GSP+psgr" class=quote target=_blank>GSP psgr (Reply 2):
MDW-I think a once daily MDW flight with a 717 could be a winner.

I don't know... MDW-CLT wasn't a very good performer (for either FL or TZ, though TZ's failure on it arguably wasn't because of the route but because of the aircraft).



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineChase From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1054 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 5911 times:

While I'd love to see GSP-IND...I think my wife and I would be the only ones on the aircraft (her grandmother lives between GSP and AVL). There aren't too many opportunities for onward connection at either station, so it'd be mostly O&D, and I just don't think the market is there. Unless of course FL massively built up IND, which of course I'd have no problem with  Smile

User currently offlineSflaflight From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1183 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 5758 times:

Wouldn't GSP be a great market for Allegiant? It has all G4 characteristics: major city close by, small(er) market, etc.

User currently offlineB6fll From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5751 times:

Moving foward at JFK and B6, once the new terminal is opened and NW/DL merge and tke some of those meaningless RJ's out of there there will more room for Jetblue to grow..Slowly but you will see Jetblue grow a little at JFK. But it wont be to GSP, thats for sure!

[Edited 2008-06-11 10:04:10]

User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 5703 times:



Quoting Sflaflight (Reply 5):
Wouldn't GSP be a great market for Allegiant? It has all G4 characteristics: major city close by, small(er) market, etc.

They're already at GSP, flying to SFB, FLL, and PIE. There was also service to LAS that was dropped at the end of last year due to fuel costs.


User currently offlineDeltabobo From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 206 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5657 times:

As a former ramper with every airline at GSP (with the exception of US), I will tell us this.....All the major LCC's out there (WN, B6, F9, and FL) WANT TO COME TO GSP, but they want subsidies from the GSP Airport Commission, but the airport commission will only give subsidies to G4 and G4 ALONE. But remember, the airport commission is run by Roger Miliken, something like fifth richest man in America (correct me if I'm wrong), who is set in his ways. GSP has the second highest airfares in the nation, only CVG is higher. Once good ol' Roger kicks the bucket, the commission will look to get more business. Southwest offered MDW, LAS, LAX, and PHX, among others, B6 offered service to JFK and BOS, FL offered ATL and BWI (to give ol' Delta a run for their money, and guarantee DL would be sending more mainline to fight FL at GSP if they started; F9 offered service to DEN. There are two doors at the end of Concourse A with spaces for new jetbridges. WN offered to buy the jetbridges to use both the new gates, but the commission said no. Well, as long as the good ole boys at GSP are there, nothing will change.


Dispatchers...saving pilots from themselves and their egos since 1938!
User currently offlineB6fll From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5641 times:



Quoting Deltabobo (Reply 9):
All the major LCC's out there (WN, B6, F9, and FL) WANT TO COME TO GSP,

LOL...I don't think. We are talking about GSP, not MSP...LOL. If they wanted to GSP so bad, Im sure anyone of these carriers would have been there already. It's not like the airport only has a few slots left  Smile . I am just not buying that all the LCC's are knocking the door down to get into GSP.


User currently offlineMSYPI7185 From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 710 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 5583 times:

The only Low fare operation I can remember at GSP was CO Lite. They tried to pull away traffic from US at CLT. CO had service to MSY, GSO, and unfortunately I do not remember many of the other cities they had service to from GSP.

The end result was CO Lite was abandoned and US lost over 800 Million fighting them off. CO goal was to "Push US into the Atlantic Ocean". Both airlines suffered greatly over this.

GSP is just too close to CLT and ATL.

Later MD


User currently onlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22939 posts, RR: 20
Reply 11, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 5550 times:

Do any of you GSP folks know how GSP performed for DH? That might tell us something (especially since they presumably weren't pulling traffic from CAE, ATL, or CLT).


I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineSflaflight From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1183 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 5528 times:



Quoting Srbmod (Reply 7):

They're already at GSP, flying to SFB, FLL, and PIE. There was also service to LAS that was dropped at the end of last year due to fuel costs.

Duh! I knew that! Hello, I just greeted 942 on the 5 of June. What was I smoking?!?!

I must be getting those airport codes mixed up again! I tell you, it's catching up with me! TOO much flying, driving, etc...  Smile

Well, the title thru me off! G4 is a network Low fare to me!


User currently offlineMSYtristar From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 6565 posts, RR: 51
Reply 13, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 5525 times:

Yeah, I remember CO Lite.

They ran up to four daily 737's GSP-MSY. Not exactly what I would call good route planning.


User currently offlineCitrusCritter From Pitcairn Islands, joined May 2007, 1098 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 5501 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 3):

Do we know how BTV and PSM are working?

Since when does FL fly to PSM? Are you thinking PWM?



TLH
User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7566 posts, RR: 27
Reply 15, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 5471 times:



Quoting Deltabobo (Reply 8):
.All the major LCC's out there (WN, B6, F9, and FL) WANT TO COME TO GSP, but they want subsidies from the GSP Airport Commission, but the airport commission will only give subsidies to G4 and G4 ALONE.

I don't buy this statement. Some, but not all, and how serious the are is debatible. Airlines are always meeting with airport officials. Airport officials are always looking to attract new service. It is all a matter of priorities. The lack of subsidies is not what is holding them back. Airlines generally know that subsidies aren't sustainable in the long term.

Quoting Deltabobo (Reply 8):
Southwest offered MDW, LAS, LAX, and PHX, among others, B6 offered service to JFK and BOS, FL offered ATL and BWI (to give ol' Delta a run for their money, and guarantee DL would be sending more mainline to fight FL at GSP if they started; F9 offered service to DEN.

I highly doubt the were looking at GSP-LAX, PHX, LAS. Even if the were, that was then and they'd be unsustainable with the current cost of fuel. Same goes for F9 GSP-DEN.

Remember that RDU isn't all that far away and will no longer even have LAX service.


User currently onlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22939 posts, RR: 20
Reply 16, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 5454 times:



Quoting CitrusCritter (Reply 14):
Are you thinking PWM?

I'm thinking I can't type... they're only 1 letter and 1 state apart. Thanks for catching that.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineGSP psgr From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 163 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 5377 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 11):
Do any of you GSP folks know how GSP performed for DH? That might tell us something (especially since they presumably weren't pulling traffic from CAE, ATL, or CLT).

We were a pretty solid station for DH, eventually expanding beyond IAD to have flights to MCO and TPA (which Delta promptly started service to in retaliation). I don't think we did quite as well as TYS and CLT did, but it wasn't a bad show.

On the topic of WN, I also doubt we could support flights to LAX or PHX. I could buy MDW and maybe LAS, but more realistically, an initial WN GSP schedule might look something like this
4X BWI OR 3X BWI/1X PHL
1X BNA
1X MCO (Continuing to FLL)
1X MDW
plus another frequency to either BNA or MDW, I'm not sure which.


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