Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Island Air Withdraws Their EAS Bids At Kansas City  
User currently offlineKnope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2896 posts, RR: 30
Posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2809 times:

Weeks after being awarded the EAS contract for a handful of cities out of Kansas City, Island Air has notified the DoT that they will not fulfill the bid. So much for the hope of someone making a go if it with larger aircraft (DH8).

With Air Midwest turning out the lights in about 3 weeks, Grand Island, Joplin, Hot Springs and Harrison are just about certain to see a large gap in service.

This is a link to just one of several stories out there, plus the DoT site has a docket item opening up emergency bidding for these markets.

http://www.theindependent.com/news/x...land-Air-backs-out-of-EAS-contract

I fear these cities are going to go the route of places like Quncy and Marion...months of no service, with eventual resupmtion of flights by Great Lakes with no code-sharing and little traffic. I hope that's not the case, but it seems likely.

[Edited 2008-06-09 19:16:27]

16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22924 posts, RR: 20
Reply 1, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2710 times:



Quoting Knope2001 (Thread starter):
I fear these cities are going to go the route of places like Quncy and Marion...months of no service, with eventual resupmtion of flights by Great Lakes with no code-sharing and little traffic.

Had Island Air promised codesharing? I can't remember.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17445 posts, RR: 46
Reply 2, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2650 times:

Is service to MCI worth anything to anyone other than the air carrier getting paid to provide the service? Seems like a total waste of money, unless there is a significant local market between these cities and MCI....


E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineAQ737 From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 612 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2641 times:

Any idea why they withdrew their bid? I'm guessing that they submitted the bid prior to Aloha shutting down and now with such a gap in capacity, they'd prefer to stick to offering interisland service in Hawaii with their current fleet. The fares are rapidly rising and with Go!/Mesa looking financially shaky, perhaps Island Air is preparing to become the #2 carrier in the islands.

User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7539 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2614 times:



Quoting AQ737 (Reply 4):
Any idea why they withdrew their bid?

Well their first problem was the lost the contract to service Columbia, Missouri, which XJ won with Saab 340 service to Memphis, which makes a lot more sense then a Beech 1900 to MCI with really no connections.



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineHA_DC9 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 653 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2595 times:



Quoting AQ737 (Reply 4):
Any idea why they withdrew their bid? I'm guessing that they submitted the bid prior to Aloha shutting down and now with such a gap in capacity, they'd prefer to stick to offering interisland service in Hawaii with their current fleet. The fares are rapidly rising and with Go!/Mesa looking financially shaky, perhaps Island Air is preparing to become the #2 carrier in the islands.

 checkmark 
IMHO I think this is the reason. I would have thought though that they would be a little more aggressive in their growth plans to capitalize on the AQ situation like what HA (and to a lesser extent Mesa too) has done and is doing. I would have thought that Island Air would have been out there beating the streets like HA to get more aircraft fast, but they have been pretty quiet down here (unless I have been sleeping under a rock) while HA is benefiting the most from the situation. I don't believe that twice daily frequency between HNL and LIH for example is going to help much at all. I fear that it may be a "too little, too late" situation for Island Air to capitalize on the "golden opportunity" of the AQ situation and the rapid growth of HA (and Mesa/go! too). They need to grow and do it fast.


User currently offlineImapilotaz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2497 times:



Quoting HA_DC9 (Reply 5):
I fear that it may be a "too little, too late" situation for Island Air to capitalize on the "golden opportunity" of the AQ situation and the rapid growth of HA (and Mesa/go! too). They need to grow and do it fast.

In reality, the shutdown of AQ did nothing to help WP. They had no competing flights. The markets that WP served before is just as hyper-competitive as it was last year, with Mokulele/go!Express and Pacific Wings duking it out in MKK, JHM, & LNY. Even if Mesa dies, dont be surprised if someone buys go! in BK (someone local, like Castle & Cook). The CR2s arent so bad with fares starting at $69. That should yield an average fare in the $78 net range (Remember for better of worse, Mesa has no codeshares, which keeps fares much higher, as all their traffic is buying local fares, not prorating tickets). 70% loads at a $78 average fare is breaking even, even with these fuel rates, except for maybe ITO, although ITO loads were always about 10 points higher for YV than LIH, OGG, or KOA. So even at $4000 per BH (which they're no where near) LIH & OGG would cost only about $2600 per departure, while bringing in about $2700. KOA would be upside down by about $200, and ITO by about $400. go!'s model aint so bad with these fares.

In either way, WP is going to have a very tough time competing with Mokulele's 7 Caravans and now 3 Cargomasters (with very little comparable overhead) and Pacific Wings who has nearly $6M in annual subsidies from the mainland covering overhead.

Island Air needs to decide what they are. Are they a little guy (and if they are, they're going to get killed by Mokulele/Pacific Wings on CASM) or are they a big guy (HA & go! will kill them in the big markets).


User currently offlineHNL-Jack From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 819 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2436 times:



Quoting Imapilotaz (Reply 6):
Island Air needs to decide what they are. Are they a little guy (and if they are, they're going to get killed by Mokulele/Pacific Wings on CASM) or are they a big guy (HA & go! will kill them in the big markets).

Couldn't agree with you more. Island Air's management doesn't appear to have a clear vision, let alone a business plan, that defines what they want to achieve or how to achieve it. On the other hand, Mokulele is led by a young, dynamic owner who can't be far away from seizing the opportunity with larger equipment and the price advantage that not flying jets offers. The Willis team needs aggressive leadership now...if it wants to survive.



Grew up in the business and continued the family tradition.
User currently offlineKnope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2896 posts, RR: 30
Reply 8, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2371 times:



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 2):
Had Island Air promised codesharing? I can't remember.

They had no code-share deal in place but promised to pursue one. Cedrtainly no assurance that it would have ahpened, but it does not seem that Great Lakes even makes the promise of attempting code sharing anymore outside of DEN.


The Island Air bid *was* encouraging for the EAS program because:

--It was a new carrier willing to go into EAS, offering an alternative to the ubiquitous Great Lakes...quickly becoming the only game in town.

--It was a carrier willing to bring more passenger-attractive aircraft (DH8) to EAS in a region with a steady diet of less-and-less-attractive BE1.

Great Lakes service to EAS markets outside of their Denver hub seems largely destined to drive community air service into the ground. The Island Air bid was hope for some change. So much for having a little hope.


User currently offlineFlynavy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2323 times:

...and this is news why?

1. Hawaiian regional carrier applies for EAS routes out of Kansas-flipping-City (of all places).
2. Hawaiian regional carrier later decides it isn't such a good idea.

I wonder how much money they burned through to come to that conclusion?  Yeah sure

They never stood a chance anyway.


User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17445 posts, RR: 46
Reply 10, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2264 times:



Quoting Knope2001 (Reply 8):
--It was a carrier willing to bring more passenger-attractive aircraft (DH8) to EAS in a region with a steady diet of less-and-less-attractive BE1.

I don't think it matters, especially when these communities have a choice between a BE1 and a tumbleweed, plus the connectivity, or rather lack thereof, at MCI is destined to drive any award into the ground. That is unless the majority of all passengers are terminating in MCI, but I doubt that's the case.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5420 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 2232 times:

There have been other recent instances of airlines winning routes and failing to initiate service, Great Lakes and Gulfstream for two examples.

In just a few months time, the rise in the price of fuel undermined the economics of their service proposals before they could begin. The per passenger subsidy proposals are now bumping the EAS cap in many cases, spelling trouble for the whole program. Meanwhile, Congress, despite the election year, seems to have no appetite for sweetening the subsidy rates. (I'm not saying this inaction is good or bad, just observing that nothing is happening.)

Tough times in the EAS business.



I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlineAzjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3906 posts, RR: 27
Reply 12, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 2180 times:

Maybe now the folks at JLN wished they chose the NWA/XJ proposal to MEM. Should be intersting to see how the awards are reallocated.

User currently offlineKnope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2896 posts, RR: 30
Reply 13, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 2138 times:



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 10):
Quoting Knope2001 (Reply 8):
--It was a carrier willing to bring more passenger-attractive aircraft (DH8) to EAS in a region with a steady diet of less-and-less-attractive BE1.

I don't think it matters, especially when these communities have a choice between a BE1 and a tumbleweed, plus the connectivity, or rather lack thereof, at MCI is destined to drive any award into the ground. That is unless the majority of all passengers are terminating in MCI, but I doubt that's the case.

Yeah, I suppose when it really comes down to it my optimism was probably not justified in the first place. But Grand Island and Joplin (in particular) both clearly have solid potential to support larger aicraft, and the Island Air proposal seemed like a breath of fresh air compared to the same-old-same-old Great Lakes proposals. So much for optimism.


User currently offlineImapilotaz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 2096 times:



Quoting Knope2001 (Reply 13):
Yeah, I suppose when it really comes down to it my optimism was probably not justified in the first place. But Grand Island and Joplin (in particular) both clearly have solid potential to support larger aicraft, and the Island Air proposal seemed like a breath of fresh air compared to the same-old-same-old Great Lakes proposals. So much for optimism.

There was a lot of optimism in the local communities and at least some of the folks at Island Air. I think a lot of the issues as well at Island Air is that the the company is much more of a "Hawaii" carrier than even HA is or AQ was. The vast majority of the employees are local Hawaiians (front office, back office, rampers, pilots, FAs, etc) and there was a fairly large number of high level, mid-level and low-level employees that felt that they shouldnt be starting service 4000 miles away and should be trying to get more market share in Hawaii. The problem is, these same employees dont understand the fact that you cant just put a flight into a market against the nearly 100 flights daily on YV and 200+ on HA and get passengers.

Quoting HNL-Jack (Reply 7):
On the other hand, Mokulele is led by a young, dynamic owner who can't be far away from seizing the opportunity with larger equipment and the price advantage that not flying jets offers.

Bill Boyer is a great guy at Mokulele. They are up to 7 Grand Caravans and 3 Cargomasters in the Islands, and are likely going to be twice that size by this time next year. These days, the cost difference of running 4 Caravans vs 1 DH8-100 wouldnt be a whole lot different. That is especially the case if those Caravans arent financed but are owned outright (as I believe many of Mokulele's are), which makes ownership just a paper expenses (Depreciation of the aircraft).


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22924 posts, RR: 20
Reply 15, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 2048 times:



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 10):
I don't think it matters, especially when these communities have a choice between a BE1 and a tumbleweed, plus the connectivity, or rather lack thereof, at MCI is destined to drive any award into the ground.

All they really needed to do was ink a codeshare agreement with YX... their MCI network isn't huge by any stretch, but it hits the most of the largest destinations (save Chicago).



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineMtnWest1979 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 2458 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 1955 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 4):
Well their first problem was the lost the contract to service Columbia, Missouri, which XJ won with Saab 340 service to Memphis, which makes a lot more sense then a Beech 1900 to MCI with really no connections.

The above was a response to the question asked if anyone knew why they withdrew bid.

Well WP never won the bid to serve COU and weren't going to operate 1900s.
I think someone is getting their carriers mixed up and to which airline the original question was dealing with.



"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
YX At Kansas City (MCI) posted Mon Sep 10 2007 08:41:08 by Airbusaddict
Island Air Dash 8 In New Scheme At GRR posted Fri Mar 3 2006 19:24:43 by Tjwgrr
Frontier At Kansas City posted Sat Jun 26 2004 20:36:13 by Quickmover
Emergency Landing At Kansas City Airport?!? Fire.. posted Sat Feb 14 2004 21:02:26 by Deltadude8
Island Air Rejected For Columbia MO EAS Bid posted Tue Apr 15 2008 16:02:06 by SpencerII
Island Air Bidding On Mainland EAS Routes posted Tue Mar 25 2008 13:47:07 by SpencerII
EAS Update At LNS, Air Midwest & RegionsAir Bid posted Tue Jul 11 2006 21:12:57 by A330323X
Island Air Dash-8's At GRR. Why? posted Sat Jan 15 2005 23:42:39 by Tjwgrr
Eva Air 747 At Guatemala City posted Mon May 28 2001 03:13:11 by Juanchito
DOT Requests New EAS Bids For VIS, MCE, ELY posted Thu May 29 2008 15:24:41 by FATFlyer
Island Air Dash 8 In New Scheme At GRR posted Fri Mar 3 2006 19:24:43 by Tjwgrr
Frontier At Kansas City posted Sat Jun 26 2004 20:36:13 by Quickmover
Emergency Landing At Kansas City Airport?!? Fire.. posted Sat Feb 14 2004 21:02:26 by Deltadude8
Island Air Rejected For Columbia MO EAS Bid posted Tue Apr 15 2008 16:02:06 by SpencerII
Island Air Bidding On Mainland EAS Routes posted Tue Mar 25 2008 13:47:07 by SpencerII
EAS Update At LNS, Air Midwest & RegionsAir Bid posted Tue Jul 11 2006 21:12:57 by A330323X
Island Air Dash-8's At GRR. Why? posted Sat Jan 15 2005 23:42:39 by Tjwgrr
Eva Air 747 At Guatemala City posted Mon May 28 2001 03:13:11 by Juanchito
DOT Requests New EAS Bids For VIS, MCE, ELY posted Thu May 29 2008 15:24:41 by FATFlyer