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Le Figaro : Air France To Order 100 Widebodies  
User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 13259 times:

Confidentiel : Air France va commander 100 long-courriers



Air France va commander 100 long-courriers

Pour garder une flotte compétitive avec un baril à 140 dollars, la compagnie nationale va acquérir d'ici à la fin de l'année une centaine d'avions long-courriers de moyenne capacité. Un investissement de 20 milliards de dollars. En lice, le Boeing B787 Dreamliner, plombé par ses retards, et l'Airbus A350, dont les performances seront connues en décembre.

Order to be decided within the nexts weeks- it would be the largest order from a European carrier this year,valued at about 20 Billion €.
Unclear if the order shall be split between 787 and the A350..

[Edited 2008-06-10 09:39:35]


Please respect animals - don't eat them...
22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineN1786b From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 559 posts, RR: 17
Reply 1, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 13250 times:

This has been talked about before - even written up in the employee magazine "Breifing" - and recently postponed IIRC. Must be a slow day at Le Figaro.

- n1786b


User currently offlineSingapore_Air From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 13739 posts, RR: 19
Reply 2, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 13191 times:

Around US$20 Billion for 100 B787s and 100 A350s. I bet they'll get big discounts on that.

The very small article says they'll decide by the end of 2008.

Le Figaro



Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
User currently offlineKL808 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1584 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 13116 times:

Quoting Singapore_Air (Reply 2):
Around US$20 Billion for 100 B787s and 100 A350s. I bet they'll get big discounts on that.

I think its 20 Billiion EUROS or roughly 31 Billion USD.

Mix order would be good.

EDIT: never mind re-read it and I think it did say USD. Sorry

Drew

[Edited 2008-06-10 09:51:40]

[Edited 2008-06-10 09:51:07]


AMS-LAX-MNL
User currently offlineNYCAAer From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 692 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 13116 times:

That's a lot of airplanes. They must plan on replacing the fleet of 777s and A330s, since the 744s and A340s are going. Could this order also include planes for KLM?

User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Reply 5, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 13050 times:

All order from AF are group-orders.. so some of the ordered planes will end up in AMS.


Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineFrigatebird From Netherlands, joined Jun 2008, 1583 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 12816 times:

KL MD11 and 747 combi's will be replaced, their 772's are only a few years old and they will stay for the time being, AF will replace 343's and 772's . Together with some expansion around 35-40 planes for KL, an 60-65 for AF.

AF/KL will need new planes from 2013 onwards. I would be very surprised if Airbus or Boeing won't have some slots reserved for them!



146,318/19/20/21,AB6,332,343,345,388,722,732/3/4/5/G/8,9,742,74E,744,752,762,763,772,77E,773,77W,AT4/7,ATP,CRK,E90,F50/7
User currently offlineArt From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 3382 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 12549 times:



Quoting Singapore_Air (Reply 2):
The very small article says they'll decide by the end of 2008.

The article actually says that the national company (?) is going to acquire a hundred medium capacity long haul aircraft between now and the end of the year! A and B are going to need to do a bit of overtime to manage this. Smile

"la compagnie nationale va acquérir d'ici à la fin de l'année une centaine d'avions long-courriers de moyenne capacité."


User currently offlineSKY1 From Spain, joined Apr 2006, 879 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 12459 times:

I see AF with both, XWB (350-1000) and 787 (787-8 or 787-9). But Airbus must to convince GE to develop a new engine for having more power plant choice, otherwise AF could not ask the Airbus' newest toy.

The 787 will go almost sure for AF, unlike the XWB. But in a long-term they will need a 77W replacement.



Time flies! Enjoy life!
User currently offlineMoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 3912 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 12369 times:



Quoting SKY1 (Reply 8):
But Airbus must to convince GE to develop a new engine for having more power plant choice, otherwise AF could not ask the Airbus' newest toy.

They've (AF) have already said thats not a deal breaker.


User currently offlineYULWinterSkies From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2178 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 12258 times:



Quoting Moo (Reply 9):
They've (AF) have already said thats not a deal breaker.

That's a wise statement. I indeed expect the fleet to be big enough to be profitable even though there will be somewhat an added complexity due to a different engine manufacturer. How much would a 787 GE engine would have in common with, say a 332 GE engine, or a GE90? Aren't they supposed to be a really new generation?



When I doubt... go running!
User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7062 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 10442 times:



Quoting Beaucaire (Thread starter):
Order to be decided within the nexts weeks-

Launch customer for the A350 with GE engines in Farnborough ?



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7410 posts, RR: 57
Reply 12, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 10372 times:

All this is OOOOOLD News and was discussed here several times :

- YES, AF delayed its decision, initially planned for late 2008, to 2009 to give Airbus time to propose a GE powered A350.

- NO, AF will is not likely to order both the B787 & A350

- YES AF is urging A & B to propose a successor to their A320 & B737 families

- YES, the future order is made in the name of AF-KLM and will concern both AF & KL fleets.


User currently offlineScouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3387 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 9685 times:



Quoting SKY1 (Reply 8):
I see AF with both, XWB (350-1000) and 787 (787-8 or 787-9). But Airbus must to convince GE to develop a new engine for having more power plant choice, otherwise AF could not ask the Airbus' newest toy.

Do AF have an exclusivity agreement with GE or is just a preference thing as I've seen this said many times on here but never seen any evidence why AF only order planes with GE engines?


User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 8935 times:

KLM has a very strong relationship too with GE. They run a big new engine shop together in a complex cooperation deal.

I think a rational choice will come out. Probably a combi of 787-9's and A350-900's to start with. KLM organzing the introduction & support for the Boeings, AF for the Airbusses.

First aircraft to be replaced are AF 340-300 and KLM MD11 fleets.


User currently offlineSKY1 From Spain, joined Apr 2006, 879 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 7290 times:



Quoting FlySSC (Reply 12):
YES, AF delayed its decision, initially planned for late 2008, to 2009 to give Airbus time to propose a GE powered A350


Problem here is GE has many doubts about develop a new engine solely for powering the XWB

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 12):
NO, AF will is not likely to order both the B787 & A350

Again, maybe all depends if Airbus can offer two power plants, a GE-option in its newest 350-XWB. The 787's are a bit smaller than XWB and Boeing is saying nothing about the hypothetical 787-10. On the other hand AF will need on the long-term a 777-300ER replacement as I don't think they will have the 77W's more than 20-25 years in fleet.

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 13):
Do AF have an exclusivity agreement with GE or is just a preference thing as I've seen this said many times on here but never seen any evidence why AF only order planes with GE engines?

AF likes GE for saving expenses keeping just 1 engine supplier for the entire long-haul fleet. But there is not any evidence they have an "exclusivity agreement" with GE. And the french engine manufacturer Snecma is a good partner GE partner, it sure has an influence for the Air France's choice as well.

Anyhow, I don't think AF will ask an Airbus aircraft with RR engines, so if Airbus can't convince GE for an engine on the XWB, the AF-KL group will only have within a few years Boeing in their long-haul fleet (with the A332 exception)



Time flies! Enjoy life!
User currently offlineTrex8 From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 4747 posts, RR: 14
Reply 16, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 4859 times:
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Quoting SKY1 (Reply 15):
And the french engine manufacturer Snecma is a good partner GE partner, it sure has an influence for the Air France's choice as well.

except Snecma has less than 5% of the GEnx program unlike the GE90 or CF6 where they were a big player.


User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9168 posts, RR: 15
Reply 17, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4487 times:

Will this include any B 747-8 or even A 380 orders? How many A 380s did they order?

User currently offlineSKY1 From Spain, joined Apr 2006, 879 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 4148 times:



Quoting United Airline (Reply 17):
How many A 380s did they order?

10 frames, so far I know.

They will purchase not any 747-8I, unfortunately. I'd like see, but it's enough unlikely.



Time flies! Enjoy life!
User currently offlineGoldorak From France, joined Sep 2006, 1840 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4047 times:



Quoting SKY1 (Reply 18):
10 frames, so far I know.

no, 12


User currently offlineSKY1 From Spain, joined Apr 2006, 879 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3742 times:

10 was the initial figure, right? When AF asked for 2 additional A-380's?


Time flies! Enjoy life!
User currently offlineN14AZ From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2699 posts, RR: 25
Reply 21, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3692 times:



Quoting SKY1 (Reply 20):
10 was the initial figure, right? When AF asked for 2 additional A-380's?

Correct, 10 ordered in 2000 and two (out of 4 options) ordered in summer 2007


User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30889 posts, RR: 87
Reply 22, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3638 times:
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Quoting Keesje (Reply 14):

I think a rational choice will come out. Probably a combi of 787-9's and A350-900's to start with. KLM organzing the introduction & support for the Boeings, AF for the Airbusses.

This makes sense to me, as well.

Neither AF nor KL are in any near-term need for the A350-1000 with their new 77Ws (and AF's incoming A380s). The A350-900 makes a solid A340-300 and 777-200ER replacement and the 787-8/787-9 would work well as an A330-200/A330-300/MD-11 replacement as well as to handle the passenger loads from the KL 744Ms.


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