Beaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 26 Posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 12128 times:
Confidentiel : Air France va commander 100 long-courriers
Air France va commander 100 long-courriers
Pour garder une flotte compétitive avec un baril à 140 dollars, la compagnie nationale va acquérir d'ici à la fin de l'année une centaine d'avions long-courriers de moyenne capacité. Un investissement de 20 milliards de dollars. En lice, le Boeing B787 Dreamliner, plombé par ses retards, et l'Airbus A350, dont les performances seront connues en décembre.
Order to be decided within the nexts weeks- it would be the largest order from a European carrier this year,valued at about 20 Billion €.
Unclear if the order shall be split between 787 and the A350..
N1786b From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 551 posts, RR: 18 Reply 1, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 12119 times:
This has been talked about before - even written up in the employee magazine "Breifing" - and recently postponed IIRC. Must be a slow day at Le Figaro.
Singapore_Air From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 13711 posts, RR: 21 Reply 2, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 12060 times:
Around US$20 Billion for 100 B787s and 100 A350s. I bet they'll get big discounts on that.
The very small article says they'll decide by the end of 2008.
KL808 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1573 posts, RR: 2 Reply 3, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 11985 times:
Quoting Singapore_Air (Reply 2): Around US$20 Billion for 100 B787s and 100 A350s. I bet they'll get big discounts on that.
I think its 20 Billiion EUROS or roughly 31 Billion USD.
Mix order would be good.
EDIT: never mind re-read it and I think it did say USD. Sorry
NYCAAer From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 660 posts, RR: 4 Reply 4, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 11985 times:
That's a lot of airplanes. They must plan on replacing the fleet of 777s and A330s, since the 744s and A340s are going. Could this order also include planes for KLM?
Frigatebird From Netherlands, joined Jun 2008, 1195 posts, RR: 1 Reply 6, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 11685 times:
KL MD11 and 747 combi's will be replaced, their 772's are only a few years old and they will stay for the time being, AF will replace 343's and 772's . Together with some expansion around 35-40 planes for KL, an 60-65 for AF.
AF/KL will need new planes from 2013 onwards. I would be very surprised if Airbus or Boeing won't have some slots reserved for them!
Art From Lebanon, joined Feb 2005, 2937 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 11418 times:
Quoting Singapore_Air (Reply 2): The very small article says they'll decide by the end of 2008.
The article actually says that the national company (?) is going to acquire a hundred medium capacity long haul aircraft between now and the end of the year! A and B are going to need to do a bit of overtime to manage this.
"la compagnie nationale va acquérir d'ici à la fin de l'année une centaine d'avions long-courriers de moyenne capacité."
SKY1 From Spain, joined Apr 2006, 843 posts, RR: 4 Reply 8, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 11328 times:
I see AF with both, XWB (350-1000) and 787 (787-8 or 787-9). But Airbus must to convince GE to develop a new engine for having more power plant choice, otherwise AF could not ask the Airbus' newest toy.
The 787 will go almost sure for AF, unlike the XWB. But in a long-term they will need a 77W replacement.
Moo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 3596 posts, RR: 4 Reply 9, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 11238 times:
Quoting SKY1 (Reply 8): But Airbus must to convince GE to develop a new engine for having more power plant choice, otherwise AF could not ask the Airbus' newest toy.
They've (AF) have already said thats not a deal breaker.
YULWinterSkies From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2107 posts, RR: 6 Reply 10, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 11127 times:
Quoting Moo (Reply 9): They've (AF) have already said thats not a deal breaker.
That's a wise statement. I indeed expect the fleet to be big enough to be profitable even though there will be somewhat an added complexity due to a different engine manufacturer. How much would a 787 GE engine would have in common with, say a 332 GE engine, or a GE90? Aren't they supposed to be a really new generation?
Scouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3254 posts, RR: 10 Reply 13, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 8554 times:
Quoting SKY1 (Reply 8): I see AF with both, XWB (350-1000) and 787 (787-8 or 787-9). But Airbus must to convince GE to develop a new engine for having more power plant choice, otherwise AF could not ask the Airbus' newest toy.
Do AF have an exclusivity agreement with GE or is just a preference thing as I've seen this said many times on here but never seen any evidence why AF only order planes with GE engines?
Keesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 14, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 7804 times:
KLM has a very strong relationship too with GE. They run a big new engine shop together in a complex cooperation deal.
I think a rational choice will come out. Probably a combi of 787-9's and A350-900's to start with. KLM organzing the introduction & support for the Boeings, AF for the Airbusses.
First aircraft to be replaced are AF 340-300 and KLM MD11 fleets.
SKY1 From Spain, joined Apr 2006, 843 posts, RR: 4 Reply 15, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 6159 times:
Quoting FlySSC (Reply 12): YES, AF delayed its decision, initially planned for late 2008, to 2009 to give Airbus time to propose a GE powered A350
Problem here is GE has many doubts about develop a new engine solely for powering the XWB
Quoting FlySSC (Reply 12): NO, AF will is not likely to order both the B787 & A350
Again, maybe all depends if Airbus can offer two power plants, a GE-option in its newest 350-XWB. The 787's are a bit smaller than XWB and Boeing is saying nothing about the hypothetical 787-10. On the other hand AF will need on the long-term a 777-300ER replacement as I don't think they will have the 77W's more than 20-25 years in fleet.
Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 13): Do AF have an exclusivity agreement with GE or is just a preference thing as I've seen this said many times on here but never seen any evidence why AF only order planes with GE engines?
AF likes GE for saving expenses keeping just 1 engine supplier for the entire long-haul fleet. But there is not any evidence they have an "exclusivity agreement" with GE. And the french engine manufacturer Snecma is a good partner GE partner, it sure has an influence for the Air France's choice as well.
Anyhow, I don't think AF will ask an Airbus aircraft with RR engines, so if Airbus can't convince GE for an engine on the XWB, the AF-KL group will only have within a few years Boeing in their long-haul fleet (with the A332 exception)
Trex8 From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 3970 posts, RR: 14 Reply 16, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3728 times:
Quoting SKY1 (Reply 15): And the french engine manufacturer Snecma is a good partner GE partner, it sure has an influence for the Air France's choice as well.
except Snecma has less than 5% of the GEnx program unlike the GE90 or CF6 where they were a big player.
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 26698 posts, RR: 83 Reply 22, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2507 times:
Quoting Keesje (Reply 14):
I think a rational choice will come out. Probably a combi of 787-9's and A350-900's to start with. KLM organzing the introduction & support for the Boeings, AF for the Airbusses.
This makes sense to me, as well.
Neither AF nor KL are in any near-term need for the A350-1000 with their new 77Ws (and AF's incoming A380s). The A350-900 makes a solid A340-300 and 777-200ER replacement and the 787-8/787-9 would work well as an A330-200/A330-300/MD-11 replacement as well as to handle the passenger loads from the KL 744Ms.
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