Beaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 24 Posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 13291 times:
Confidentiel : Air France va commander 100 long-courriers
Air France va commander 100 long-courriers
Pour garder une flotte compétitive avec un baril à 140 dollars, la compagnie nationale va acquérir d'ici à la fin de l'année une centaine d'avions long-courriers de moyenne capacité. Un investissement de 20 milliards de dollars. En lice, le Boeing B787 Dreamliner, plombé par ses retards, et l'Airbus A350, dont les performances seront connues en décembre.
Order to be decided within the nexts weeks- it would be the largest order from a European carrier this year,valued at about 20 Billion €.
Unclear if the order shall be split between 787 and the A350..
Frigatebird From Netherlands, joined Jun 2008, 1605 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 12848 times:
KL MD11 and 747 combi's will be replaced, their 772's are only a few years old and they will stay for the time being, AF will replace 343's and 772's . Together with some expansion around 35-40 planes for KL, an 60-65 for AF.
AF/KL will need new planes from 2013 onwards. I would be very surprised if Airbus or Boeing won't have some slots reserved for them!
The article actually says that the national company (?) is going to acquire a hundred medium capacity long haul aircraft between now and the end of the year! A and B are going to need to do a bit of overtime to manage this.
"la compagnie nationale va acquérir d'ici à la fin de l'année une centaine d'avions long-courriers de moyenne capacité."
SKY1 From Spain, joined Apr 2006, 879 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 12491 times:
I see AF with both, XWB (350-1000) and 787 (787-8 or 787-9). But Airbus must to convince GE to develop a new engine for having more power plant choice, otherwise AF could not ask the Airbus' newest toy.
The 787 will go almost sure for AF, unlike the XWB. But in a long-term they will need a 77W replacement.
YULWinterSkies From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2179 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 12290 times:
Quoting Moo (Reply 9): They've (AF) have already said thats not a deal breaker.
That's a wise statement. I indeed expect the fleet to be big enough to be profitable even though there will be somewhat an added complexity due to a different engine manufacturer. How much would a 787 GE engine would have in common with, say a 332 GE engine, or a GE90? Aren't they supposed to be a really new generation?
Scouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3390 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 9717 times:
Quoting SKY1 (Reply 8): I see AF with both, XWB (350-1000) and 787 (787-8 or 787-9). But Airbus must to convince GE to develop a new engine for having more power plant choice, otherwise AF could not ask the Airbus' newest toy.
Do AF have an exclusivity agreement with GE or is just a preference thing as I've seen this said many times on here but never seen any evidence why AF only order planes with GE engines?
SKY1 From Spain, joined Apr 2006, 879 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 7322 times:
Quoting FlySSC (Reply 12): YES, AF delayed its decision, initially planned for late 2008, to 2009 to give Airbus time to propose a GE powered A350
Problem here is GE has many doubts about develop a new engine solely for powering the XWB
Quoting FlySSC (Reply 12): NO, AF will is not likely to order both the B787 & A350
Again, maybe all depends if Airbus can offer two power plants, a GE-option in its newest 350-XWB. The 787's are a bit smaller than XWB and Boeing is saying nothing about the hypothetical 787-10. On the other hand AF will need on the long-term a 777-300ER replacement as I don't think they will have the 77W's more than 20-25 years in fleet.
Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 13): Do AF have an exclusivity agreement with GE or is just a preference thing as I've seen this said many times on here but never seen any evidence why AF only order planes with GE engines?
AF likes GE for saving expenses keeping just 1 engine supplier for the entire long-haul fleet. But there is not any evidence they have an "exclusivity agreement" with GE. And the french engine manufacturer Snecma is a good partner GE partner, it sure has an influence for the Air France's choice as well.
Anyhow, I don't think AF will ask an Airbus aircraft with RR engines, so if Airbus can't convince GE for an engine on the XWB, the AF-KL group will only have within a few years Boeing in their long-haul fleet (with the A332 exception)
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30978 posts, RR: 86
Reply 22, posted (6 years 3 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 3670 times:
Quoting Keesje (Reply 14):
I think a rational choice will come out. Probably a combi of 787-9's and A350-900's to start with. KLM organzing the introduction & support for the Boeings, AF for the Airbusses.
This makes sense to me, as well.
Neither AF nor KL are in any near-term need for the A350-1000 with their new 77Ws (and AF's incoming A380s). The A350-900 makes a solid A340-300 and 777-200ER replacement and the 787-8/787-9 would work well as an A330-200/A330-300/MD-11 replacement as well as to handle the passenger loads from the KL 744Ms.