SAN787 From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 616 posts, RR: 1 Reply 1, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 7310 times:
Jfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 7345 posts, RR: 7 Reply 2, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 7220 times:
Virgin America is an airline with great Spirit, but would it better off flying 2 to 3 hours instead of transcon. SFO/LAX to ORD is better but what about LAX/SFO to Dallas Love Field or Houston ?
BigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2755 posts, RR: 7 Reply 3, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 7210 times:
Panam330 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2601 posts, RR: 10 Reply 4, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 7143 times:
Considering the Wright amendment won't let them fly to DAL from either coast, that's not gonna happen. I agree that it would've been a much better decision if they opened SFO-ORD, but the costs of opening a new station probably have something to do with that.
MaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 15727 posts, RR: 47 Reply 5, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 7055 times:
BigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2755 posts, RR: 7 Reply 6, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 7043 times:
Richierich From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 4022 posts, RR: 6 Reply 7, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 7006 times:
Great ... another leisure market, although I am quite aware that LAS gets its share of business/conference traffic too.
The times look good - they are right in the middle of two JetBlue and two Delta flights, B6 leaving JFK-LAS at 0750 and 1015 and Delta leaving JFK-LAS at 0800 and 1000. Similar thing on the return.
MaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 15727 posts, RR: 47 Reply 8, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 6970 times:
BigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2755 posts, RR: 7 Reply 9, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 6903 times:
Perhaps, but so far they have been holding their own. Even so, the LAS-NYC market is quite crowded. I would have thought the first non LAX/SFO-JFK market they would enter would be SEA or SAN but I guess they see a market for themselves JFK-LAS.
I would expect to see some interesting promotions to get this flight off the ground.
Very good schedule. This is going to draw both business and leisure traffic..
Quoting Richierich (Reply 7): Great ... another leisure market, although I am quite aware that LAS gets its share of business/conference traffic too
Las Vegas has a strong business and conference traffic demand. I suspect this route isnt being laid out for the Las Vegas locals. This route is being geared at the inbound business/leisure traveler from the New York market to Las Vegas.
Just the way that Jet Blue has killed Virgin America on SFO-JFK, and LAX-JFK (Jet Blue backed out of LAX before it had a chance to start). Virgin America has been holding its own. I think that it can be more than explained that Virgin America has a very loyal following and a very solid product. In fact there are many on this forum, and people like myself that enjoy the Virgin product that are more than willing to pay the premium to fly the Virgin America first class product.
SANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 4720 posts, RR: 15 Reply 11, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 6504 times:
Of the 2 "under-served" (by VX) start-up cities, LAS and SAN, I was hoping SAN would see its first non-SF route but maybe this LAS-JFK announcement is a sign that more connect-the-dots will come. This now means that San Diego is the only VX station that sees service on only 1 route (and only 5x daily.)
Since Virgin seems to be having trouble getting the next city up-and-running, they have to put their new a/c somewhere and I'm happy to see it's somewhere other than LA/SF-NY!
Quoting Richierich (Reply 7): The times look good - they are right in the middle of two JetBlue and two Delta flights, B6 leaving JFK-LAS at 0750 and 1015 and Delta leaving JFK-LAS at 0800 and 1000.
Exactly...And I can't wait to see it. This is for all the VX cool aid drinkers!!!
Quoting Lambert747 (Reply 10): Just the way that Jet Blue has killed Virgin America on SFO-JFK, and LAX-JFK (Jet Blue backed out of LAX before it had a chance to start).
I dont know the loads for VX from SFO-JFK but B6's numbers are great. Talk to me when VX makes a profit. And by all means VX had nothing to do with B6 not starting LAX...LMAO. That was all fuel prices. I thing between JFK-LGB/ONT/BUR we have LA covered...
MaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 15727 posts, RR: 47 Reply 13, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 6470 times:
Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 9): Perhaps, but so far they have been holding their own.
Lambert747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 14, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 6395 times:
Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 13): Based on what information? It's easy to do when you have hundreds of millions of dollars to burn through
How many people said Virgin America would not get off the ground?
How many people said that Jet Blue and United were going to kill them?
How many people said Virgin America wont get the premium traffic?
It would appear that Virgin America is holding its own. In fact the fact that people are willing to infuse money into the long term future of the airline only goes to prove that Virgin America is gaining traction and their is a genuine interest in the product and offerings from not only the flying public, but investors.
I am not here to knock Jet Blue. However on two of my most recent Jet Blue flights, as a roundtrip LAS-JFK, I have to say that the image and product arent being taken care of as much as it has been in the past. The wear and tear is starting to show on the Jet Blue fleet. The costs to fly Jet Blue are equal to that of the majors. There is a lack of premium product to infuse additional income into Jet Blue.
There are a lot of things that Virgin America holds over Jet Blue. Of note is its presence in key markets. Virgin America isnt going to be doing the Florida shuttles, or connect the dots to markets that are less than robust. Virgin America from what I have experienced, and what I have heard is dedicated to premium O/D markets and the clientele in those markets. While Jet Blue may be content flying a route like BUF-MCO, Virgin America is content flying a route like JFK-LAX.
AAJFKSJUBKLYN From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 836 posts, RR: 2 Reply 15, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 6341 times:
Just wait a few more months and fuel where it is and then tell me about B6 and VX....time will tell.....
Aloha to the airlines with New Frontiers on their Horizon with EOS planes and champaigne dreams ATA boy!
My friends and I came up with that one...sorry I know it's a little out there.
EOS as dawn of the mother ship...the goddess.
ATTA BOY!
AAJFKSJUBKLYN From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 836 posts, RR: 2 Reply 17, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 6240 times:
Quoting B6fll (Reply 16): Good, I say let them because we know the yields on that route are so high....LOL.
I agree, nothing to proud about, attacking an adequately saturated market.
MaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 15727 posts, RR: 47 Reply 18, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 6197 times:
Quoting Lambert747 (Reply 14): It would appear that Virgin America is holding its own.
Do you have any evidence to support that?
Quoting Lambert747 (Reply 14): In fact the fact that people are willing to infuse money into the long term future of the airline only goes to prove that Virgin America is gaining traction and their is a genuine interest in the product and offerings from not only the flying public, but investors.
EOS, Skybus, Maxjet, and Silverjet also had investors opening their wallets, for a while...
LASOctoberB6 From Japan, joined Nov 2006, 2380 posts, RR: 1 Reply 19, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 6174 times:
hmmm... Fly CO to EWR for Thanksgiving or fly VX to JFK for Thanksgiving? Eitherway, it's nice to have an alternative to B6's flight to JFK. Too bad it's not effective in July and they don't fly to SYR... But in the end, I think i'll still be flying jetBlue for my summer trips to upstate NY and Continental for Thanksgiving.. Oh well.
Flighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 7441 posts, RR: 2 Reply 20, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 6149 times:
LASJFK may be a _crowded_ market, but it is a _big_ market. Many of the persons on it will wish for a stylish and cool airline. Especially, the VX front cabin is pretty unique for the LASJFK market. This is the VX claim to fame. I think they should do fine, since they have no exact competitor. They are carving their own niche.
Lambert747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 21, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 6099 times:
Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 18): EOS, Skybus, Maxjet, and Silverjet also had investors opening their wallets, for a while...
They are totally different business models. Not one was like Virgin America. To start Virgin America had instant brand recognition. Then you have the multiple destinations served by Virgin America. Lastly you have the clientele base of Virgin America.
EOS
One route, Two more announced - never started. A business plan geared at purging the loyalist of BA, VS, and AA Business and First Class flyers in the New York market. With one route, on the most competitive TATL corridor you have problems. You are putting all of your resources into one corner. The most competitive corner in the North Atlantic.
Handfull of routes to distant out of town destinations. The business model for Skybus was so out of touch that not even its loyalist of flyers, could imagine their long term plans. Honestly how much money can you make with $10 Trans-Con airfares, and destinations served 50 miles from the market it advertised.
Antique 767-200 aircraft with a horrible, horrible maintenance record. Honestly how many people remember the Maxjet fleet when it came to a near stand still last year due to mechanical issues on multiple aircraft all at once. An airline that based its business plan on travelers that want a in between economy class and business class product. STN-LAX, IAD, LAS, JFK. The verdict is still out on the new revived charter operation.
MaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 15727 posts, RR: 47 Reply 22, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 6078 times:
Quoting Lambert747 (Reply 21): They are totally different business models.
Of course, but people still bought into it. If investors handing over money was a sign of success we wouldn't have had a dot com bust.
SANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 4720 posts, RR: 15 Reply 23, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 6059 times:
I just did a schedule check and was amazed to see that today, 13 n/s operate between LAS and JFK! (That's B6 with 5, DL has 4, US flies 3x and AA has 1 flight.) I had no idea there was that much capacity (or that many cx); I didn't even look at CO to EWR.
So, as has been said, just another huge market that VX is jumping into...
Ikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21029 posts, RR: 60 Reply 24, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 6031 times:
Quoting Lambert747 (Reply 14): How many people said that Jet Blue and United were going to kill them?
How many people said Virgin America wont get the premium traffic?
It would appear that Virgin America is holding its own.
It takes time to "kill" a competitor.
They get premium traffic by discounting it, and by having a solid product. But with only 8 seats, they aren't getting much premium traffic.
As for what it would "appear" I don't know. They are losing money hand over fist, their Y loads are poor (which is most of their plane), and they are having trouble figuring out where to fly next, so much so that they are now entering the LAS-NYC market, not exactly the highest yield or most underserved market around.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
25 Humberside: Whats the chance of LAX-LAS. Another joining the dots route, but another one with heavy competition?
26 Lambert747: So then I ask.. For their frequent fliers on JFK-SFO, JFK-LAX, is Virgin America to ignore the demand of JFK-LAS and let the others in the market kee
27 B6fll: No, Im definetly in favor of LCC's over the legacies. LCC's have much better service, nicer aircraft, and alot better customer service. Th only reaso
28 MaverickM11: I'm not in favor of one versus the other, but everyone blames legacies for the "overcapacity" and then you have someone like VX adding capacity to ma
29 Lambert747: I am not blaming the legacies for overcapacity. I dont think for a minute we would see as many LCC's in the market if the legacies had better treated
30 BigGSFO: Really? 1. Focus on higher yielding markets/travelers who will pay a little extra 2. A worldwide brand which most airlines could only wish they had f
31 Ikramerica: that's the crux of it. I liked flying VX on LAX-SEA, and that's not an overserved market, at least in terms of number of carriers. I just don't get t
32 Flighty: Why not... this is a classic VX market. They are a premium carrier. They are like BMW. Just because a lot of Chevys are sold in JFK-LAS does not mean
33 B6fll: LMAO..If VX is BMW, Jetblue must be Bentley!!!
34 Lambert747: If you have flown Jet Blue, you would be saying a Ford..
35 NIKV69: This had to happen I wanted to try them to fly back to NY for Xmas last Dec and had to fly to SFO first so said nay. Hope to try them soon!
36 MaverickM11: LCCs have been successful because of one thing and one thing only: low fares. VX will not get any high yield travelers with such a limited schedule,
37 Ikramerica: "better make way" BMW's, at least here in SoCal, are driven by: 1. daughters who's daddy bought them 2. hollywood assistants who think they are more
38 B6fll: LMAO..Not really. I have flown Jetblue many of times, even before I worked for them. Thats why I work for them now. Because of what they are and beca
39 MAH4546: Except for over many, many, many people like me that actually live in L.A. and aren't going to shelp out to other airports with LAX a 20-25 minute dr
40 B6fll: Well I am sorry to hear that. I guess you will have to settle for less and fly VX or the other "Ford" and "Chevy" carriers.
41 B6fll: http://www.virginamerica.com/va/pres...Jun/Announces-Fuel-Surcharges.html There you go Lambert, here is your so called BMW airline...LMAO. Last time I
42 InTheSky74: With the issues at LAX like security, etc - it's sometimes faster just driving to LGB.... A lot of people drive to LGB or the other airports for convi
43 MAH4546: Or, rather, I won't resort to immature classifications of airlines, and just fly Virgin America because they fly to LAX, and LAX is convenient to me.
44 VX4Ever: Everyone just needes to calm down, yes 1. there are many options from NYC-LAS 2. The market is over crowded and 3. There are many similar products...
45 Ikramerica: I'd be a B6 regular by now if they flew to LAX. Well, at least 4 flights a year for the last 7 years. But oh well, I just fly CO and DL and AA instea
46 PlanesNTrains: As someone who has never flown B6 or Virgin America (though we will be flying both this summer), I am rapidly finding your posts to be repetitive, pr
47 EK345: VX is a good airline, as is B6. I have flown both, but I do have a preference, and that is VX. EXCELLENT inflight staff, good product, young fleet. A
48 F9Animal: TWA did fine from LAS to JFK, and so did National N7. While both airlines are now gone, I can tell you that these flights were packed. I really wish
49 Panamair: Not really. In Y, VX is no more 'premium' than most other legacies out there. Let's take a look at their supposed "premium" features: Leather seats?
50 Asteriskceo: Honey, I'm sure that those B6 passengers that were stuck in the aircraft at JFK for 8 hours would have loved to drink some of the "VX cool aid"
52 EK345: Yes, that, and also a staff that puts most other "legacies" to shame. EK345
53 Flighty: That's like saying a Chevy has leather, therefore it's as good as a BMW.
54 Lambert747: Hate to break this to you there were some very "A" list travelers on Eos Airlines. If memory serves me right Kate Winslett, Fergie-ex of York, Lehman
55 MaverickM11: And where is Eos now? If a business traveler has a choice to fly Eos and earn points to their one destination, or fly BA and earn points towards any
56 Lightsaber: B6 is the Accura. VX is like a BMW. Aggressive, sexy, but one is having to spend a lot of money keeping up the image. Oh, most of the people tailgati
57 Lambert747: You are forgetting one key component. NAME The Virgin brand is known around the World. It is not hard to imagine that Americans and foreigners who tr
58 SAN787: there's something wrong, there shouldn't be anyone keeping up with you to be able to tailgate...unless it's me in my X5 165,000 miles... and yes, i a
59 MaverickM11: For what? Crap trains in the UK? Megastores that no one goes to anymore because of iTunes? Telephones that come in plastic cases? Three non EU/US air
60 Lambert747: Living in Los Angeles, I am more than content to fly Virgin America. It gets me to San Francisco when I need to and it gets me to New York when I nee
61 B6fll: Thats old and played out. Yeah we all know about what happened A YEAR AND A HALF AGO..Nice try though...This happens to every airline. If VX had more
62 BigGSFO: Clearly nothing more than your own opinion.
63 MaverickM11: It looks like VX is actually cancelling one daily SFOJFK to fund this trip since they aren't getting any more slots at JFK. Can anyone confirm? Tell m
64 Lambert747: Funny, I am purchasing their First Class tickets at value. I dont get a discount. I take my business and others I know take their business to Virgin
65 MaverickM11: Awesome. Why are they constantly having sales and not raising fares? No it hasn't. How did the VS "brand" help Virgin Express?
66 Lambert747: I was not the one to bring Virgin Express into the topic. I suggested that the Virgin brand in aviation is very well known. Thus you have an immediat
67 B6fll: Lambert after all the bull crap about VX being a BMW, which by the way had me rolling, I ALMOST agreed with this statement, but with Oil and fuel cos
68 MaverickM11: But you haven't explained how that factors into the purchasing decision, or why anyone would pay any premium because they've heard of VS After how ma
69 Lambert747: Well I didn't say it was akin to a BMW. I did feed in momentarily with a reference to JetBlue with which others seemed to use a less favorable compar
70 B6fll: It doesn't matter to me, they are not effecting Jetblue. People in NYC know who there hometown airline is. We have brand loyality. If VX makes it, in
71 Lambert747: American, Continental, Delta, or Jet Blue? I am going to have to agree and disagree with you. You are right in saying that JetBlue has brand loyalty.
72 SANFan: I think VX has pretty much always planned on connecting JFK (and IAD?) with all of their western stations, meaning LAS, SAN and SEA would eventually
73 B6fll: AA, CO, DL had loyality in NYC.Domesticaly B6 has it now. I am not saying people dont fly them in NYC but the no longer have Brand Loyality like B6
74 PanAm330: Really? I'm calling bullsh*t on that right now. Ask Dominicans if they fly B6 over AA. I think that you'll find they won't. Ask people from North Jer
75 Lambert747: You are trying to say that AA, CO, and DL had loyalty in New York City and that now because JetBlue is one the scene it is suddenly gone? I have a ha
76 Panamair: I'm a New Yorker (and live in NYC). I have never ever set foot on a JetBlue plane in my entire life.
77 BigGSFO: By having a recognizable brand from the very first day. They don't need to establish who "Virgin" is. People buy from what they are most comfortable
79 Richierich: Oh come on, please stop this stuff! I like B6 as much as anybody but when you keep rambling on like this it kind of takes away from the credibility o
80 JetBluefan1: The flight will do just fine. If US decides to pull LAS-JFK (which, in my opinion, there is a good chance of a frequency reduction), then that would a
81 Live2fly83: is VX making wise choices flying against B6 (and WN/AS on other markets) are they making money??/
82 Live2fly83: I like VX but objectively lookn at them this is their only tangible difference
83 B6fll: Oh no, they have so much more like uhhh, well they have ummmm, and also ughhhhh....Yeah. They have Sir Richard Branson, yeah there you go!!
84 BigMac: I agree, VX is my favorite too. Their planes look new and modern both inside and outside and their service is good. BTW, I think B6's interiors look
85 F9Animal: I have noticed alot of VX slamming going on here. I think VX is a darned fine airline, and they have a product that shows class. If you dislike them,
86 BigGSFO: Which gives them an advantage when it comes to brand development and credibility with investors. Have you ever flown VX? I've flown both B6 and VX on
87 MaverickM11: That's the million dollar question and the answer is almost undeniably "no". Arguably you *like* VX so much that you don't see that their business pl
88 BigGSFO: VX isn't projected to make money, initially, until 2010. Most likely due to fuel costs (I assume) this date has been updated, but the investors knew
89 EXAAUADL: 2300 miles, leisure destination, $130 oil..Something tells me this is absolutely the wrong market to be flying right now
90 MaverickM11: They've certainly got that part covered. most of them are hypnotized by the mood lightning Which it's not--which it can't
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