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LH Starts Retiring A300s (?)  
User currently offlineNA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10807 posts, RR: 9
Posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 9543 times:

According to skyliner-aviation D-AIAI "Erbach/Odenwald" has been withdrawn from use and is offered for sale. I think its the second old A300 in LHs fleet after D-AIAH, and, being built in 1987, one of the oldest aircraft in the whole fleet beside a few 737s.
Is this a hint that the A300s will be wfu completely soon or is there an issue with this particular aircraft?

49 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4405 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 9508 times:

It has an age at which some airlines fire their FA, almost.

LH is receiving A321 currently, which can do a part of the job of the A300?


User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8457 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 9495 times:
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Quoting Burkhard (Reply 1):
LH is receiving A321 currently, which can do a part of the job of the A300?

A330-300 can fly to Kazakstan and Africa in place of the A300. It could benefit Lufthansa too by offering its long haul product instead of a short haul product on a 6 hour flight.


User currently offlineWILCO737 From Greenland, joined Jun 2004, 9103 posts, RR: 76
Reply 3, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 9487 times:
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Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 2):
A330-300 can fly to Kazakstan and Africa in place of the A300. It could benefit Lufthansa too by offering its long haul product instead of a short haul product on a 6 hour flight.

Some A300s got a real business class and not only the regular short haul seats.

I don't know what exactly to D-AIAI happened, but they are getting old and reached or getting close to their cycle limit... And that's why they send the oldest ones on the medium haul routes to save some cycles and not only between FRA,HAM, MUC, TXL, LHR  Wink

WICLO737 (MD11F)
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It it's not Boeing, I am not going.
User currently offlineLH526 From Germany, joined Aug 2000, 2380 posts, RR: 14
Reply 4, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 9444 times:
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Quoting Burkhard (Reply 1):
LH is receiving A321 currently, which can do a part of the job of the A300?

Nope, not gonna happen!



Trittst im Morgenrot daher, seh ich dich im Strahlenmeer ...
User currently offlineNA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10807 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 9392 times:

Btw, I´ve flown on board D-AIAM FRA-LHR last month and it had a new interior.

Quoting Burkhard (Reply 1):
LH is receiving A321 currently, which can do a part of the job of the A300?

I hope not, as A300s are more comfortable. If they replace the A300 I beg for A330s on the trunk route to LHR.


User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4405 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 9357 times:

FRA-LHR should go well on the A333. I heard one of the things the A333 cannot do it the Tegel Service due to the larger wing span?

User currently offlineJJMNGR From Brazil, joined May 2004, 1018 posts, RR: 15
Reply 7, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 9263 times:

I flew LH LHR/FRA last month on a A300 in business class and it was superb! It is amazing how they keep those aircrafts in such a good shape. The aircraft look to be leaving the plant!
I was very impressive. I would be sad to see they leave the fleet.


User currently offlineLH4116 From Sweden, joined Aug 2007, 1714 posts, RR: 18
Reply 8, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 9261 times:



Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 3):
Some A300s got a real business class and not only the regular short haul seats.

Are those seats the new lie-flat or just the old cradle seat that also is found on L'avion...

Quoting Burkhard (Reply 7):
FRA-LHR should go well on the A333. I heard one of the things the A333 cannot do it the Tegel Service due to the larger wing span?

Just a question, is the A333 economical on short haul routes? I guess that they do carry a lot of excess weight, or?



SAS Plus is Business Class made faux!
User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4405 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 9242 times:

Yes - if we need a monument that 20 years old aircraft can be top, safe, reliable, comfortable, they can serve for this.

User currently offlineTK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4464 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 9231 times:



Quoting Burkhard (Reply 1):
which can do a part of the job of the A300?

321, really? LH sends one of those to IST for the early morning departure, and it seems to be always packed. It will be nice to see a 333 to replace it.


User currently offlineWILCO737 From Greenland, joined Jun 2004, 9103 posts, RR: 76
Reply 11, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 9217 times:
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Quoting LH4116 (Reply 9):
Are those seats the new lie-flat or just the old cradle seat that also is found on L'avion...

The old ones. Not the lie flat we have in the rest of the long haul fleet...

WILCO737 (MD11F)
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It it's not Boeing, I am not going.
User currently offlineMozart From Luxembourg, joined Aug 2003, 2205 posts, RR: 13
Reply 12, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 8896 times:



Quoting Burkhard (Reply 6):
FRA-LHR should go well on the A333. I heard one of the things the A333 cannot do it the Tegel Service due to the larger wing span?

1) Given that LH is short of longhaul aircraft, I'd be surprised if they sent A333 to London or other shorthaul destinations. Maybe once a week on a Monday morning, but other than that, don't think so

2) Tegel: given that TXL for some time was served by an A340-300, which has the same wing span (60m 30), I don't see why that should be a problem. Unless the recent constructions at TXL have resulted in less taxiing space for planes of that size.


User currently offlineB777Neuss From Germany, joined Aug 2007, 155 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 8819 times:

I heard that LH will replace the A300 on the FRA-HAM-FRA sector with A321 because of the fuel consumption. So they will also switch from B737 or A320 to A321.

User currently offlineDALCA From Netherlands, joined Aug 2006, 535 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks ago) and read 8609 times:

I hope they keep the A300 flying as long as possible. They are excellent for carrying cargo on the medium haul European routes such as ATH, IST, LIS, FCO, LHR and many other destinations.
Not a lot of airlines offer lower deck capacity, up to 160cm high to these destinations.



Zanair flight, please hold on finals as we have to clear rhino's off the runway. Next flight KUL-FRA-AMS Flown in A319,A
User currently offlineClipperBerlin From Germany, joined Feb 2008, 90 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 8484 times:



Quoting Burkhard (Reply 6):
FRA-LHR should go well on the A333. I heard one of the things the A333 cannot do it the Tegel Service due to the larger wing span?

LTU serves Bankok with an A330 from TXL and Hainan starts flying with the same aircraft to Beijing later this year. Thus, wing span cannot be an issue.


User currently offlineAirnerd From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 261 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 8258 times:



Quoting B777Neuss (Reply 13):
I heard that LH will replace the A300 on the FRA-HAM-FRA sector with A321 because of the fuel consumption. So they will also switch from B737 or A320 to A321.

Doesn't the train offer a decent FRA-HAM connection? What's it take on the ICE? 2h? 2h30m? I'd think with the rise in fuel costs and increase in environmental awareness, the train would take quite a bit of demand out of the HAM-FRA flights.


User currently offlineA350XWB From Germany, joined Jan 2007, 44 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 8217 times:



Quoting Airnerd (Reply 16):
Doesn't the train offer a decent FRA-HAM connection? What's it take on the ICE? 2h? 2h30m? I'd think with the rise in fuel costs and increase in environmental awareness, the train would take quite a bit of demand out of the HAM-FRA flights.

It takes 3:37 on the ICE. And with the high number of connections in FRA, there will always be strong demand on LH's FRA-HAM-FRA flights.


User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9676 posts, RR: 31
Reply 18, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 8218 times:

msn 391 D-AIAI was offered for sale already 2 weeks ago. With the fuel costs increase, things might be changing fast these days, so it is rather difficult to speculate over intentions.

Long range equipped AB6s are used on short hauls soime times as well, I have been on l/r AB5s FRA-TXL twice recently.

The "Kontschaufel" will be diificult to replace since the capacity is needed on certaoin sectors.

Quoting Airnerd (Reply 16):

Doesn't the train offer a decent FRA-HAM connection? What's it take on the ICE? 2h? 2h30m? I

It is roughly 4 hours and really no match for the flight, if you want a same day with a heavy workl load at either HAM or FRA.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlineAirnerd From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 261 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 8075 times:



Quoting PanHAM (Reply 18):
It is roughly 4 hours and really no match for the flight, if you want a same day with a heavy workl load at either HAM or FRA.

Shame it's so long. At 500km, it's barely longer than Paris-Lyon which is just barely over 2h on the TGV. If they could get it down to under 3h, and keep it costing less than the flight, I bet it would really start to have an impact on the air traffic.

Of course, it's never going to be an attractive option for the business traveller who intends to go out and back in one day. But what percentage of the passengers on LH FRA-HAM do you think are doing that? For the leisure passengers starting in HAM, connecting in FRA, I would think it could be a decent option. Plus FRA is so well set up with the rail stations at the airport proper.


User currently offlineCARST From Germany, joined Jul 2006, 836 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 8053 times:



Quoting Mozart (Reply 12):
2) Tegel: given that TXL for some time was served by an A340-300, which has the same wing span (60m 30), I don't see why that should be a problem. Unless the recent constructions at TXL have resulted in less taxiing space for planes of that size.

I think the problem is airplanes with a greater wingspan than the 763 don't fit into the gates at TXL.

Airplanes that large get parked on the tarmac stands west of the main terminal (A) and there isn't that much space as RJs often park there, too.


User currently offlineSXDFC From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 2428 posts, RR: 22
Reply 21, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 7881 times:

Well I turned 19 today, if my family were LH then well id be retiring  Wink LOL

LH operated the 332 in the past, why cant they just replace it with the 332? I am sure theres other factors to that as well.

Heres another idea, maybe they can still get the 764?



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineCARST From Germany, joined Jul 2006, 836 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 7590 times:



Quoting SXDFC (Reply 21):
LH operated the 332 in the past, why cant they just replace it with the 332? I am sure theres other factors to that as well.

Heres another idea, maybe they can still get the 764?

A332 would be an option, but i think they ruled that one out as A300 replacement...


As the 767 can be ordered it would be an option, but a not very realistic one. The airplane is just to old and LH needs a widebody for shorthoul flights...


I think the 787-3 is the plane they wanted, with a shorter wingspan, as the program is on hold lets see and wait what will happen.


User currently offlineBrons2 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3017 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 7518 times:



Quoting Airnerd (Reply 19):
Plus FRA is so well set up with the rail stations at the airport proper.

Agreed, the Frankfurt-Main station is wonderfully convenient if you are flying in or out of FRA.

They need to speed up the train to HAM! The trip to CGN takes barely over 1 hour at upwards of 300 km/h on the ICE.

That being said I would love to sample an LH A300 the next time I am in Germany.



Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
User currently offlineSQ6807 From New Zealand, joined Jan 2008, 163 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (6 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 7504 times:



Quoting CARST (Reply 22):
I think the 787-3 is the plane they wanted, with a shorter wingspan, as the program is on hold lets see and wait what will happen.

I agree, outisde Japan, LH is probably the most likely customer for the 783. But three carriers with unclear order sizes is probably slim pickings, so it may well be that it never gets off of the ground.


25 Jacobin777 : Carriers are still ordering the B763 and if it does the job then why would it not be an option? I thought the B767 was a widebody.. The B783 isn't an
26 DTWAGENT : I'm flying on an A321 on LH on this route (VCE-FRA) on August 24 of this year. And going to BUD we are flying on the A319 in think? Both in business C
27 Boeing744 : There must be a lot of non-ER 767s for sale out there, no? They must be quite old though. What about some non-ER 777's? They are designed for routes
28 WunalaYann : I hate to be specific but I could not resist this one - Paris-Lyon non-stop is 1h55, soon to be lowered to 1h49 when commercial speed is jacked up to
29 Columba : A330s have been in TXL a couple of times. AB/LT has based an A330 there, QR use it once in a while and sometimes even LH has send an A330 instead of
30 PanHAM : shortening the ride between HAM and FRA is not on a high option right now, a big gain will be a HS connection from Fulda to FRA. Leisure passengers a
31 Columba : Airlines that already have the 767 order it LH does not (DE does not count and the DE 767-330s will likely be taken over by AB soon). LH evaluated th
32 Leskova : There tracks between Frankfurt and Kassel, and then north of Hannover to Hamburg are not high-speed capable, you often end up seeing speeds around 80
33 MUCFLYER : the situation about our AB6 fleet is slightly unclear... A few weeks ago we were pleased with some commitments for the AB6 'workhorses' . All ac' s sh
34 PanHAM : it is actually Frankfurt-Fulda that needs upgrading , Fulda -Kasseö is HS. you are right - they are basically down to 2 -3 flights per day with AB6.
35 Leskova : Oops... guess I always sleep by the time the train gets to Fulda... ... admittedly, it's been since just after Christmas that I last took a train nor
36 Ferroviarius : Good afternoon, also, WICLO737, it might be noteworthy that the A300, had had a 3-class configuration in the "old times" (I am not quite sure about t
37 ChiefT : We have to face the truth: There is no real replacement for the A300. Airbus simply fogot to serve this market niche; there is a large demand for wide
38 LHBSL : There is one A332 comming back by the Autom. it will fly the A300 routes to north Africa ind Middle East. Regards
39 DALCE : Is there a source? or a MSN-number known? Could it be one of the LX machines which will be replaced by the 333's at LX. Cheers, Joost ( D-ALCE )
40 Atlanta : Happy Birthday! This possible retirement will change there minds! Atlanta
41 Burkhard : There is another thread running currently, that there may be a replacement in form of a A350 light.
42 PlaneHunter : Hey Joost - it's ex-D-AIME, currently operating as HB-IQR. It's supposed to enter the LH fleet again in August as D-AIWZ. Source is ATDB. PH
43 Jacobin777 : Makes sense, however, what will be the replacement?
44 DALCA : I am not sure that LH will actually order a wisebody replacement for A300. A lot of A321's were ordered last year and these are meant partly to replac
45 LHBSL : D-AIWZ will be used on FRA-KRT-ADD an FRA-CAI...
46 BWE320 : I don't think that the whole fleet will be replaced soon as Lufthansa is investing in a reconfiguration for the A300. The short haul version will have
47 Post contains links Columba : Maybe this is the answer : http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...eneral_aviation/read.main/4023410/ Farnborough will interesting
48 DALCE : Thanks PH, Your info is appreciated Nice too see that the bird doesn't get D-AIME again, a registration which is reserved for the A 380. Cheers, Joos
49 LH648 : When LH will remove this catlecarriage A300 from ALA route? I will continue with KL 332 until they will not replace the plane... Service, plane and ev
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