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BA Close To Ordering 77W  
User currently offlineNYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5790 posts, RR: 47
Posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 19483 times:

As part of deal to provide interim lift starting in 2010 (when BA was due to get it's first 787) Boeing is and BA is close to finalizing a deal to sell 12 x 777-300ERs to BA. I wonder what effect this could have on BA's fleet decision later this year:

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...eing-777-300ers-to-bridge-787.html


That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
98 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBA319-131 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 8561 posts, RR: 54
Reply 1, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 19377 times:
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Quite interesting given the 77W is larger than the 787's due, a large capacity increase indeed!

With these, BA could actually retire some early build 744's with little capacity loss. I don't see these machines replacing 763's as the 787 is intended.

If I were BA, these machines would be taken under a sale/lease return option to Boeing, thus enabling BA to replace the aircraft as required with either an 77W NG or A350-1000.

Whilst it will be nice to see a 77W in BA's colours, I am hoping to see the A350 fly alongside the 787 with BA in the future.

M



111,732,3,4,5,7,8,BBJ,741,742,743,744,752,762,763,764,772,77L,773,77W,L15,D10,30,40,AB3,AB6,A312.313,319,320,321,332,333
User currently offlineOHLHD From Finland, joined Dec 2004, 3962 posts, RR: 25
Reply 2, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 19375 times:

I am sure they will get those damn cheap!

Anyway i believe it is a good choice for them!  Smile


User currently offlineSwallow From Uganda, joined Jul 2007, 555 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 19230 times:

Finally BA seems to be getting the 77W.    What took you so long???

This is against a backdrop of scarce 77W slots, now available from 2014. Boeing is reluctant to up production even in the face of demand from customers. BA seems to have gotten in ahead of the queue, which is hardly surprising for a premium customer.

'Boeing is coming under, and resisting, intense pressure from airlines to increase production of the 777-300ER, with the first availability for new orders now quoted as 2014.

With more and more carriers parking 747s, pressure is mounting for delivery of 777s, which burn 20% less fuel per passenger

Currently it is producing 777s at a rate of 6.6 per month based on 33 deliveries through May 30'


http://atwonline.com/news/story.html?storyID=12988

I still think they will order 359/10 at Farnborough

[Edited 2008-06-13 11:34:58]


The grass is greener where you water it
User currently offlineNYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5790 posts, RR: 47
Reply 4, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 19206 times:

I'm hearing that instead of taking the -200ERs they will take the -300ERs instead. I think if this deal goes through (and I think it will be announced at Farnbourogh) then the A350 at BA is all but dead.


That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8428 posts, RR: 7
Reply 5, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 19165 times:
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Boeing better get their 777 production to 8 planes monthly, remember when the 744 was hot in 1989; they couldn't make them fast enough. The 77W is the new "744", not a bad title to have.

User currently offlineBA319-131 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 8561 posts, RR: 54
Reply 6, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 19133 times:
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Quoting NYC777 (Reply 4):
I'm hearing that instead of taking the -200ERs they will take the -300ERs instead

- You mean conversion of the 4 outstanding orders to 77W?

M



111,732,3,4,5,7,8,BBJ,741,742,743,744,752,762,763,764,772,77L,773,77W,L15,D10,30,40,AB3,AB6,A312.313,319,320,321,332,333
User currently offlineNYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5790 posts, RR: 47
Reply 7, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 19104 times:



Quoting BA319-131 (Reply 6):
- You mean conversion of the 4 outstanding orders to 77W?

Yes, exactly. That way they get the earlier delivery slots (2009, I think) and get a earlier boost up in capacity. And they'll probably get these airplanes on the cheap. A big win for BA I think.



That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
User currently offlineEghansen From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 19075 times:



Quoting BA319-131 (Reply 1):
Quite interesting given the 77W is larger than the 787's due, a large capacity increase indeed!

With these, BA could actually retire some early build 744's with little capacity loss. I don't see these machines replacing 763's as the 787 is intended.

If I were BA, these machines would be taken under a sale/lease return option to Boeing, thus enabling BA to replace the aircraft as required with either an 77W NG or A350-1000.

Whilst it will be nice to see a 77W in BA's colours, I am hoping to see the A350 fly alongside the 787 with BA in the future.

Airlines don't replace one airplane with another wholesale. They assign airplanes to the routes based on capacity and passenger load.

Thusly, some of the 744s might be replaced with a 773. A route with one 744 and one 772 might be replaced with two 773s Some of the 772s might be replaced with a 773 if loads warrant, thus freeing up a 772 to replace a 763.

In addition, these 12 planes aren't going to replace much anyway. BA as 57 744s and 21 763s, so most of their current fleet will continue flying for at least a few more years.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31123 posts, RR: 85
Reply 9, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 19042 times:
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Interest in the 77W is rising strongly as fuel prices rise, since it is cheaper to operate then the 744 and you can keep all of your premium seating, shedding "excess" Economy seating which raises average yields per seat in that cabin. So BA considering it makes sense for them, even if they intend to also operate the A350-1000 down the road.

I would not be surprised to see Boeing move to try and add another 777 a month to their current production rate to meet that demand.

If BA commits to the 77W, I think we'll see an even dozen ordered, including the conversion of their four 77E options (so 8+4). Between these 12 and the 12 A388s, that will handle replacing the oldest 24 744s, which is not quite half the fleet.

I believe BA will order the A350-1000 at the UK show, and will place an order for 26 + 7 options. Why 7? Because that equals the number of options BA is holding on the A388. That way, they can see how traffic patterns adjust themselves over the next decade and decide if their last 744s should be replaced by the A388, the A350-1000, or a mix of both.

[Edited 2008-06-13 11:54:56]

User currently offlineBongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3638 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 19037 times:



Quoting NYC777 (Reply 4):
I'm hearing that instead of taking the -200ERs they will take the -300ERs instead. I think if this deal goes through (and I think it will be announced at Farnbourogh) then the A350 at BA is all but dead.

Surely with the 200ER's due for early 2009 its too late to cancel some of the long lead time items without incurring a significant penalty ?


User currently offlineBlueShamu330s From UK - England, joined Sep 2001, 2987 posts, RR: 23
Reply 11, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 18818 times:



Quoting NYC777 (Reply 4):
I think if this deal goes through (and I think it will be announced at Farnbourogh) then the A350 at BA is all but dead.

In which case, I'm relieved to see you're not an aviation analyst !!  Wink



So I drive a 4x4. So what?! Tax the a$$ off me for it...oh, you already have... :-(
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 12, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 18784 times:



Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 10):
Quoting NYC777 (Reply 4):
I'm hearing that instead of taking the -200ERs they will take the -300ERs instead. I think if this deal goes through (and I think it will be announced at Farnbourogh) then the A350 at BA is all but dead.

Surely with the 200ER's due for early 2009 its too late to cancel some of the long lead time items without incurring a significant penalty ?

Maybe someone else has more knowledge as to what the lead times are. Also, not all of the -200ER's would be coming at the same time.



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineBA319-131 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 8561 posts, RR: 54
Reply 13, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 18560 times:
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Quoting Eghansen (Reply 8):
Airlines don't replace one airplane with another wholesale. They assign airplanes to the routes based on capacity and passenger load.

- Very true, as I said, BA could use these places to replace some older 744's, it's not as is BA is ready to order enough 77W's to replace the entire 744 fleet.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 9):
I believe BA will order the A350-1000 at the UK show, and will place an order for 26 + 7 options. Why 7? Because that equals the number of options BA is holding on the A388. That way, they can see how traffic patterns adjust themselves over the next decade and decide if their last 744s should be replaced by the A388, the A350-1000, or a mix of both.

- Good way of looking at it, like your thinking.

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 10):
Surely with the 200ER's due for early 2009 its too late to cancel some of the long lead time items without incurring a significant penalty ?

- I too had this thought, my understanding was the configuration model, ie -200ER or 300ER had to de decided 12 months before final assembly.

Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 11):
Quoting NYC777 (Reply 4):
I think if this deal goes through (and I think it will be announced at Farnbourogh) then the A350 at BA is all but dead.

In which case, I'm relieved to see you're not an aviation analyst !!

- Me too  Smile

M



111,732,3,4,5,7,8,BBJ,741,742,743,744,752,762,763,764,772,77L,773,77W,L15,D10,30,40,AB3,AB6,A312.313,319,320,321,332,333
User currently offlineTheginge From United Kingdom, joined exactly 8 years ago today! , 1132 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 18521 times:

Doesn't mean the A350 for BA is dead just yet, if BA order them they will be for the longer term, post 2015.

User currently offlineKU747 From Kuwait, joined Mar 2008, 377 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 18399 times:

77W will do the job perfectly with BA. wise choice.


707,727,73all,741,742,743,744,752,753,762,763,77all,300,310,319,320,321,332,333,343,346, L10,L15,DC10,MD11,SSC,VC10
User currently offlineEA772LR From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2836 posts, RR: 10
Reply 16, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 18200 times:



Quoting NYC777 (Reply 4):
I think if this deal goes through (and I think it will be announced at Farnbourogh) then the A350 at BA is all but dead.

I'm not sure I would go that far. I will say that if this turns out to be a dozen 77W, and Boeing does come out with a 777NG, I could see BA hold off on ordering the 350-1000s til the mid 2020s. I can see BA ordering 359s to replace the 77E fleet, unless Boeing can launch a 787-10 with comparable range and performance to the 359. I am very excited about the prospect of seeing a 77W in BA colors  hyper  It will be one of the best looking 777s out there!



We often judge others by their actions, but ourselves by our intentions.
User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4401 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 17984 times:

Absolutely expected, and a good move. Now BA has all time of the world to wait for solid A350 / 781 specs and maybe even performance data before they decide what to get between 2015 and 2020.

User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 18, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 17786 times:



Quoting Stitch (Reply 9):

A couple of things comes to mind mate....

1)BA were going to decide until the end of the year..and given the A350-1000 is still a "moving target", I'm not so sure if BA is willing to pull the "trigger" so soon.
2)Flightglobal is reporting its 12 of the 25 which they were deciding on. If they take all 12, then that would only leave a subset of only 12-13 A359/1000, not so sure how that would fit in.
3)I think BA will also wait until they get more news on the -10 and once Boeing gets the B787 program rolling on all cylinders, they will address the -10..something which BA can wait for.

B767/B788/B789/B787-10/B772ER/B773ER/A388 would cover BA for basically all of its needs IMHO......the B788 would give BA the increments over the B767 it needs.



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineDougbr2006 From Brazil, joined Oct 2006, 393 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 17445 times:



Quoting BA319-131 (Reply 1):
If I were BA, these machines would be taken under a sale/lease return option to Boeing, thus enabling BA to replace the aircraft as required with either an 77W NG or A350-1000.

Agreed, they have to think of long term future not just 787 delay capacity. The A350 will probably nip in as it will be the latest and best in its size at a time that BA will need to replace old 747400's and 777200's

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 4):
I'm hearing that instead of taking the -200ERs they will take the -300ERs instead. I think if this deal goes through (and I think it will be announced at Farnborough) then the A350 at BA is all but dead.

See quoted comment below, I agree with his statement.

Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 11):
In which case, I'm relieved to see you're not an aviation analyst !!

The A350 is probably the best complimentary choice to fly along side the 787 until at least there is a 787-10 or a new gen 777


User currently offlineEA772LR From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2836 posts, RR: 10
Reply 20, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 17298 times:



Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 18):
B767/B788/B789/B787-10/B772ER/B773ER/A388 would cover BA for basically all of its needs IMHO......the B788 would give BA the increments over the B767 it needs.

 checkmark 

Likewise, however, we could see:
B788/B789/359/77W (3510)/A388. The 359 could essentially cover the 787-10/77E market by itself, and by ordering the 359, this could leave the door open for a 3510 order. It will definitely be a highly anticipated decision by BA. Either direction they go (between your approach and mine) I'll be happy  yes 



We often judge others by their actions, but ourselves by our intentions.
User currently offlineTravelhound From Australia, joined May 2008, 942 posts, RR: 12
Reply 21, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 17245 times:

Maybe a 77W order is a good strategic move for both BA and Boeing.

For BA it means it removes the immediate need to make an order for competing planes that are yet to be properly defined.

For Boeing it buys them time so that they can properly assess the A350 and develop their variants / new planes to compete.

[Edited 2008-06-13 15:13:10]

User currently offlineWAH64D From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 966 posts, RR: 14
Reply 22, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 17048 times:

Quoting BA319-131 (Reply 1):

If I were BA, these machines would be taken under a sale/lease return option to Boeing, thus enabling BA to replace the aircraft as required with either an 77W NG or A350-1000.

I think its almost certain that this will be a lease deal in one form or another, if there is a deal (see below). BA are a very shrewd operator and will not want to tie themselves in to a possible disadvantage. They will want to see how a completely frozen A350 performs before committing fully to one family of heavy twin for the next order. Boeing would need to come up with a very sweet deal to secure an outright sale to BA.

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 4):
I'm hearing that instead of taking the -200ERs they will take the -300ERs instead. I think if this deal goes through (and I think it will be announced at Farnbourogh) then the A350 at BA is all but dead.

I think you may be a wee bit premature with that statement. Most people are pretty confident that we'll see A350-10 in Speedbird colours. BA are not a big fan of GE-90 and they are not known for making rash purchases. They will not commit outright to B77W if A350 is going to be an order of magnitude more efficient. I'm not saying that we definitely won't see B77W in the fleet but it will be leased until such time as a full cost/benefit analysis is possible with A350.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 9):

I believe BA will order the A350-1000 at the UK show, and will place an order for 26 + 7 options. Why 7? Because that equals the number of options BA is holding on the A388.

I think you're right on the money there Stitch.

This whole thing could be part of the RFP process for the second stage widebody order.

[Edited 2008-06-13 15:18:37]


I AM the No-spotalotacus.
User currently offlineNA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10765 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 16883 times:

I wonder for how long this interim measure is planned to last. Will they be returned once the 787 are coming or whats the sense of this?

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 5):
The 77W is the new "744", not a bad title to have.

Not a bad title, but still I strongly protest. Thats an insult for the great 744!


User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8428 posts, RR: 7
Reply 24, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 16631 times:
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Quoting NA (Reply 23):
Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 5):
The 77W is the new "744", not a bad title to have.



Quoting NA (Reply 23):
Not a bad title, but still I strongly protest. Thats an insult for the great 744!

I love the 744 and have enjoyed many fond memories in Business Class to Hong King on Singapore Airlines,Qantas to Sydney's infamous Kingsford Airport and many flights to Europe on 747 Classics of BA, Pan Am and TWA. My most fond memorable flights will be on 747 whatever I do in the future with an A380 or 777, the 744 will always be the best with its streched upper deck. I hoped in the 1990's Boeing would make a new Jumbo with the then used 787 or 797 moniker. THe 744 will be the King of my travels.

Times change and in todays world the 777 is the new standard bearing long haul jet, Cathay, Singapore, JAL, ANA, now BA and Air France have given it their seal of approval. The A380 may be king of Dubai and LHR but will it be king at JFK, NRT and JNB ? I think the A380 is too much, reminds me of the 747 in the early 1970. Long may the 744 live.


25 Post contains links Vasu : Sneak preview (computer generated) courtesy of MAP: http://www.cardatabase.net/modifieda...earch/photo_search.php?id=00006681 Looks goooooooooooooood!
26 Aleksandar : Exactly my point, too. 77W seems like a logical step for BA
27 Stitch : I agree the A350-1000 is still in development, but BA can protect themselves should the plane prove to be a dog (which I can't see being possible) by
28 Ikramerica : I find it hilarious that some people are saying that any airline would take the 77W on a "short term lease" until something better comes along. That j
29 NYC777 : One question relevant to the entire debate: how is the cargo hauling ability of the A350-1000 vs the 777-300ER? Since BA doesn't have it's cargo divis
30 Pellegrine : I still don't buy the whole "77W is the 744's replacement" argument. It's smaller and more efficient, yes. The 744 replacement is the 748i. If/when BA
31 Stitch : The 77W and A350-1000 both have identical cargo volumes at 44 LD3 positions. The trick is, BA runs a rather "low-density" configuration. Assuming BA
32 NYC777 : Yes that volume but how much is the capacity in terms of haulable weight? One airplane could haul 44 LD3 filled with feathers and a full passneger an
33 Jacobin777 : That's quite true, but lately, we've seen BA not want to take a chance on such plane. If they went with the A351, it would seem likely the would want
34 Trex8 : most ILFC leases to AF/KLM and CX are less than 10 years, mostly 6-8. while I fully expect them to renew those leases or enter into some other financ
35 Stitch : Well EK implies that the 77W has a 6t greater maximum structural payload - at least for them. However, Airbus is also said to have increased the A350
36 Jacobin777 : True,but many (most) are purchased as well....
37 Alangirvan : What took BA so long? Lack of engine choice. BA did ask how much weight they could have on a 777-300 before they had to take is a 77W with GEs. I wond
38 Travelhound : Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 28): I find it hilarious that some people are saying that any airline would take the 77W on a "short term lease" until somet
39 Travelhound : I can't say this in absolute terms, but I have a suspicion the size of the majority of routes flown ideally requires a plane somewhat smaller than a
40 Jacobin777 : Do we really know how long those leases are for? The article states they might take up to 12 on lease. It could be a 5,6,7,8,9 year lease... Also, SQ
41 Caribbean484 : If true I hope to see one of these birds in the Caribbean when they start flying
42 Flighty : Right. Oh, come on. it is barely smaller. It carries MORE cargo volume, so it's not smaller there. It just lacks the 744 upper deck... effectively, a
43 WAH64D : If, and its an if at the moment, BA takes B77Ws in any form, they will be on a 6-8 year lease. The only way I see this going differently is if they r
44 Danny : It's more interim lift until XWB-1000 arrives.
45 Parapente : Such a clever deal.Well done BA and Boeing -these A/C and engines will slot in like a glove with no retraining.They have used their slots to jump the
46 Scbriml : Following that logic, whatever Boeing had "in the works" would be of no interest to BA! Personally, I think it's a myth that BA always waits. They've
47 Flipdewaf : The article says they are taking Trents for it. I'd bet that the article had it wrong and they are getting 772ERs. Easier to muddle up a 3 for a 2 rat
48 BA319-131 : - I think this refers to the RR powered 787's on order, at least that's how I read it. M
49 Travelhound : I missed that part in the article that said they were taking them all on lease. Agreed the leases could be for any period of time, but you would thin
50 VV701 : The BA aircraft depreciation policy is a good guide as to when BA look long term to retire their aircraft. In past years their annual report has simpl
51 AirNZ : So that's what it's really boiling down to I see. Well, at least you're honest about it.
52 Buzzaway : Did I miss the announcement about the order? As far as I know, there just is an article saying they "might" buy it. Don't cut the cake just yet. I wo
53 LifelinerOne : Because those airlines are getting the B77W in the next two years, today, or already have them. If BA is to order the B77W today, they will receive t
54 Scbriml : Why? Other airlines are leasing planes for relatively short periods until the plane they really want is available. SQ springs immediately to mind. Re
55 WAH64D : Because accepting reality vs believing in fantasy is a line often crossed by some members of this forum. SQ is a prime example of your well made poin
56 WAH64D : double post deleted.................................................[Edited 2008-06-14 06:46:47]
57 SXDFC : BA has been a loyal Boeing customer for quite some time now, could that mean maybe Boeing can give them the 773ER sooner if they did indeed order it?
58 Stitch : Boeing's latest pitches to airlines are 321 seats and shooting for 7800nm range.
59 SeaBosDca : Is that with the 6m stretch assumed in previous 787-10 discussions? If so, it seems like they're using a denser reference configuration...
60 TristarSteve : There is a statement on Pprune that the BA aircraft are part of a cancelled order from a leasing company, and delivery will be much sooner than that.
61 Stitch : Yes. The wing performance is evidently well above what they expected so they are at this time still planning to use the 787-9's wings, engines, and u
62 EPA001 : On the one hand that makes sense to me. But on the other hand, it means that the EIS for the B787-9 version is pushed back even further. Making it mo
63 Stitch : Not really. The 787-9 would still EIS to plan in 2012 since the 787-10 would just add 6m to the fuselage so it would not really need much beyond some
64 EPA001 : Thanks for answering my question. I just was not sure about the B787-9. You have cleared that up for me! Kind regards.
65 FXramper : Great news for BA and Boeing. What routes would BA use the 77W on?
66 Bongodog1964 : Once again what news ? This entire thread is built on rumour and speculation. It may or may not be based on fact. We must all bear in mind the rumour
67 Jacobin777 : BA have no problems flying planes a few years old, especially if they are fully/partly depreciated. Its not as if they are NW's DC-9's... True, but a
68 MD-90 : That doesn't mean he desires it, just that that might be the reality of the situation.
69 Ikramerica : BA has no urgency here to buy the A350-1000. It's not in their business character to take the early builds. They have 787 and A380 contracts and opti
70 Bongodog1964 : Of the 8 777 options, 4 were converted into orders for 200ER's for delivery in the 1st three months of 2009. The remaining 4 options were cancelled w
71 GDB : The 4 options, in addition to the 4 777's ordered for delivery from next year, were altered for 787 options, maybe a change there afoot? We have been
72 Post contains links Jacobin777 : It would certainly be a bit more than a "warmed-over" B77W.... I think its 52 in total.. "SEATTLE, Dec. 27, 2007 -- Boeing [NYSE: BA] and London-base
73 Ikramerica : Yes, but it's not clear if those are additional options and purchase rights on top of the ones they had? The wiki page, not gospel, has 76. 8/16/10 7
74 Jacobin777 : Hence why I went to the Boeing website. Regardless, its a large number. Again, without a decent B77W upgrade or replacement, the B77W's will be numbe
75 Ikramerica : The Boeing website does not publicly disclose all options and purchase rights, only orders. The PR/News page does not have articles for every transac
76 Jacobin777 : Very well could be, but I wouldn't completely trust wiki either when it comes to certain things..but you have already mentioned that....
77 Travelhound : By those figures BA will be keeping their 777's for 20-25 years. If we use those depreciation rates as a guide BA will be retiring its first 777s aro
78 Trex8 : depends how far you want to go back - in recent years, like maybe since the 777As just over 10 years ago! otherwise their history is replete with the
79 BALHRWWCC : If BA did order the 77W. They would very likely retire some of there 747's early. It would more than likely use the 77W aircraft on it's longer 747 ro
80 Post contains links ANstar : http://www.avionews.com/index.php?co...1090972&pagina_chiamante=index.php This article suggests delvieries from 2010
81 Parapente : Ikramerica If the 77W order is true, it's difficult to see a spot for the A350 in BA's plans before 2020… The fleet would be moving towards: A320 fa
82 Mutu : Actually BA could well make good use of a sub fleet of 77W based at LGW with high density configuration operating (efficiently) the caribbean and flor
83 Zeke : BA are apparently talking to RR about engine upgrade to the 744s, the engine upgrade should drop fuel use by 2% and reduce weight by 365 kg per engine
84 Jfk777 : 77W to Asia, let the 744 planes fly shorter Atlantic crossings to North America, India & Africa.
85 Vasu : Didn't they used to have high density 722s at LGW? Yeah, I reckon you're onto something... but LGW has a habit of getting 2nd-hand LHR aircraft!
86 HUYfan : Ikamerica you say it is not in BA's character to take early builds. I think you will find that that statement is completely unfounded. They took the f
87 Farnborough24 : This was what I thought. In most cases, it seems airlines who order the 77W have it as a premium aircraft operating high revenue routes. Would be a s
88 Caryjack : They received the ninth, thirteenth and fourteenth 772s. They received the third, fourth and seventh 757. Could be but that was nearly 20 years after
89 Alangirvan : They were a launch customer for the 757 (with Eastern). There were artists impressions of the 757 with the 727 nose in BA colours. For Airbus product
90 Ikramerica : How long ago was that for the 777? 13 years. And did that go well? No, it didn't. Went poorly. Since then, BA has NOT been the first on board for any
91 Caryjack : Fine, they received early delivers. The ice is a little thin here. BA may not have wanted to be a launch customer. There is a lot of water between wh
92 TristarSteve : This is the Trent 700 04 module. 14 of BAs 57 B744s have this mod already. Further modification was suspended at the time as the economic benefits we
93 Scbriml : This silly argument as to whether BA is a cautious purchaser of new types is just that, silly. When they've needed planes, they've ordered them, wheth
94 VV701 : BA's first 744 (line no 727) was delivered on 30 June 1989. It was, I believe, only the ninth 744 delivered following 2 for NW (715 and 721), 1 for LH
95 AirbusA6 : On the other hand, in both cases they're well down the order of customers for these types, and any teething troubles will be well ironed out by the t
96 LH423 : Not much I can add since the poster this was aimed at has since responded, but to say he's wrong is completely unfounded. After BA's teething issues,
97 GDB : The above post is correct, the torrid time we had early on with the 777, did mean a change of policy with regards to being amongst the launch customer
98 FUN2FLY : Exactly right, similar to what Boeing and CO worked out. With the 77w in house, it's is a good way for them to get the very familiar add on order fro
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