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Qantas International Ops - Meltdown?  
User currently offlineDocPepz From Singapore, joined May 2001, 1971 posts, RR: 3
Posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 9389 times:

Out of SIN I notice that numerous Qantas flights have been severely delayed in the past 2 weeks. We had QF31 SYD SIN LHR delayed by 24 hours the week before, QF10 LHR SIN MEL delayed by 10 hours etc. Yesterday's 18 hour delay of QF77 PERSIN led to 3 flights getting delayed by 3-4 hours.

QF77 PERSIN (1305 departure from PER) did not leave yesterday. As such there was no aircraft to do QF78 which does SINPER at 1900. As such QF had to wait for QF71 (1530 departure from PER, 2045 arrival in SIN) to arrive before they could use that aircraft to do QF78.

However, QF71 left PER an hour late and arrived in SIN at 2205. It left for PER at 2335, and arrived into PER at 0445 this morning .

Turning QF71 PERSIN around as QF78SINPER instead of having it overnight to do QF72SINPER this morning meant that there was no aircraft to do QF72 SINPER at 0905 this morning.

As such QF had to operate yesterday's QF77 about 18 hours late, having it depart PER at 0624 this morning (how vile) arriving into SIN at 1130 this morning. The aircraft then left SIN at 1235, 3.5 hours late, and will arrive into PER at 1735.

The aircraft operating QF72 SINPER usually turns around as QF71PERSIN (ETD 1530), QF71 has been delayed by 3 hours to 1840, arriving into SIN at 2350.

BUT WAIT. This means that QF71's pax will miss their connections in SIN to Frankfurt (QF5 ETD 2305) and QF31 to LHR (ETD2359).

How presumptious! QF31 and QF5 from SYD are both delayed and will arrive in SIN 2 hours late. So it all works out nicely in the end!

Any word of when this industrial action by QF engineers will end?

34 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineHKGKaiTak From Australia, joined Jun 2005, 1050 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 9348 times:

QF isn't having a great time operationally at the moment ... ageing 747-300/737-400's, tension tie problems on the 747-400's, premium economy routes, morning fog in SYD & MEL recently. What can go wrong seemingly has gone wrong ... then there's:

Quoting DocPepz (Thread starter):

Any word of when this industrial action by QF engineers will end?

I'm sure Geoff Dixon will give you an exec position in QF if you can answer this ... I think both sides are trying to hold out for their target position and it surely has to give at some point!



4 Engines 4 LongHaul
User currently offlineJoFMO From Germany, joined Jul 2004, 2211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 9346 times:

SYD-ADL-SIN was cancelled on the 5th of June.

I was only flying the domestic sector. We had to go through passport control again, pick up our luggage ot the luggage belt, go through customs and wait for 30 minutes in the queue at the domestic transfer desk, just to take the bus to the domestic terminal. But at least we did not have to wait 7 hours until the afternoon as the other passengers that were booked to SIN.

I don't know what happened to passengers in ADL. I hope QF had a spare aircraft to fly them to SIN....


User currently offlineAviationbuff08 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 346 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 9310 times:



Quoting DocPepz (Thread starter):
Any word of when this industrial action by QF engineers will end?

That would spell doom on any airline operation, hope this is settle soon. Interested to see just how it is resolved though.


User currently offlineMal787 From Australia, joined Jul 2007, 713 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 9187 times:

Looks like another bad day for QF both QF01 & QF31 are both 3 hours late into LHR today. This should not hurt the outbound ops to much, but I wonder what caused the delays, last stations BKK & SIN or SYD at the start of the services.
Source BAA web oage

mal787



BN2 Metro, 402,404, Conquest, king air, 707,727.200, 732,733,734,735,736,738,757,762,763,742,743,744, MD11, DC9,Westwind
User currently offlineSInGAPORE_AIR From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 13745 posts, RR: 19
Reply 5, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 8448 times:

It's interesting that you noticed this too Docpepz as I also keep an eye on daily Singapore arrivals and departures.

It certainly does not look good. While the list I am about to provide is certainly not extensive nor complete, it does begin to paint a recognisable picture. Most of the stuff I have is on international flights.




  • QF009 MELSINLHR / 20 May 2008: Delayed 8 hours 15 minutes due to aircraft defects


  • QF005 SYDSINFRA / 22 May 2008: Delayed 6 hours 45 minutes due to late release from maintenance due to aircraft defects.


  • QF005 SYDSINFRA / 24 May 2008: Delayed 3 hours 06 minutes due to the late arrival of the incoming aircraft.


  • QF031 SYDSINLHR / 02 June 2008: Delayed 4 hours 26 minutes. Aircraft returned to the gate due to aircraft defects. It eventually left over 23 hours late (this is the aircraft with the blocked toilets).


  • QF187 SYDHKG / 04 June 2008: Cancelled due to aircraft defects.
    QF127 SYDHKG / 04 June 2008: Delayed 2 hours 22 minutes due to aircraft defects with 90 reprotected passengers from the earlier flight.


  • QF011 SYDLAX / 07 June 2008: Delayed around 8 hours 40 minutes due to late release of the aircraft from maintenance.


  • QF031 SYDSINLHR / 08 June 2008: Delayed 5 hours 24 minutes due to an engine change.


  • QF011 SYDLAX / 10 June 2008: Delayed 7 hours 54 minutes due to a variety of factors including aircraft defects.


  • QF031 SYDSINLHR / 10 June 2008: Delayed 4 hours 26 minutes due to late arrival of the incoming aircraft.


  • QF149 SYDLAX / 12 June 2008: Delayed around 11 hours due to late release from maintenance and aircraft defects. It was ferried to LAX with all passengers transferred to QF107 / 12 June 2008 and QF011 / 12 June 2008.


  • QF073 SYDSFO / 13 June 2008: Delayed 5 hours 49 minutes due to late release from maintenance due to aircraft defects.


  • QF485 MELPER / 13 June 2008: Delayed 13 hours 13 minutes due to aircraft defects. It was ferried to PER with no passengers.


  • QF031 SYDSINLHR / 13 June 2008: Delayed around 2 hours 30 minutes. Aircraft returned to the gate due to aircraft defects. Delayed 3 hours 08 minutes.


  • QF001 SYDBKKLHR / 13 June 2008: Delayed around 4 hours 15 minutes due to the late arrival of the incoming aircraft. It took them 2 hours to turnaround QF032.


  • QF077 PERSIN / 13 June 2008: Delayed 2 hours 35 minutes. Aircraft returned to the gate due to aircraft defects. Delayed 18 hours 26 minutes.


  • QF101 MELPVG / 14 June 2008: Delayed 00 hours 16 minutes. Aircraft returned to the gate due to aircraft defects. Delayed 4 hours 7 minutes.


  • QF073 SYDSFO / 14 June 2008: Delayed 4 hours 11 minutes due to aircraft defects.


  • QF005 SYDSINFRA / 14 June 2008: Delayed 5 hours 44 minutes due to aircraft defects.


  • QF031 SYDSINLHR / 14 June 2008: Delayed 5 hours 04 minutes due to late arrival of the incoming aircraft.


  • QF071 PERSIN / 14 June 2008: Delayed 3 hours 06 minutes due to aircraft defects, possibly exacerbated by the late arrival of the incoming aircraft as Docpepz observed in the thread starter.


  • QF001 SYDBKKLHR / 14 June 2008: Delayed 4 hours 15 minutes due to aircraft defects.



  • Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
    User currently offlineChrisrad From Australia, joined Dec 2000, 1072 posts, RR: 8
    Reply 6, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 8427 times:



    Quoting SInGAPORE_AIR (Reply 5):
    It certainly does not look good. While the list I am about to provide is certainly not extensive nor complete, it does begin to paint a recognisable picture. Most of the stuff I have is on international flights.

    Dear oh dear, so many problems lately, I wonder if they have had to pay compensation to the pax the were delayed so long?



    Welcome aboard Malaysia Airlines! Winner of Best Cabin Staff 2001,2002,2003,2004,2007,2009,2012
    User currently offlineNzrich From New Zealand, joined Dec 2005, 1524 posts, RR: 1
    Reply 7, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 8171 times:

    I feel sorry for the ground staff that handle QF and their inflight crew can just imagine how many complaints they would be handling ...


    "Pride of the pacific"
    User currently offlineQFA380 From Australia, joined Jul 2005, 2083 posts, RR: 1
    Reply 8, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 7942 times:



    Quoting Nzrich (Reply 7):
    I feel sorry for the ground staff that handle QF and their inflight crew can just imagine how many complaints they would be handling ...

    I know, pax get pretty pissed off after being delayed by 8 hours then they take it out on the FA's and ground staff even though they are more pissed off than the pax.

    Quoting SInGAPORE_AIR (Reply 5):

    That's pretty stunning seeing so many delays but not just small delays massive delays, with only a few being less than 2 hours.

    Quoting Chrisrad (Reply 6):
    Dear oh dear, so many problems lately, I wonder if they have had to pay compensation to the pax the were delayed so long?

    I think they have to give compensation to pax on EU flights with delays over 6 hours, not sure about the others though.


    User currently offlineLOUMEL From Australia, joined May 2008, 65 posts, RR: 0
    Reply 9, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 7136 times:

    Don't think it's just international, Friday night on SYD - MEL was a nightmare as well.

    User currently offline'Longreach' From Australia, joined Jul 2001, 505 posts, RR: 0
    Reply 10, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 7063 times:

    Continuing on from LOUMEL -

    Domestic operations have been a shambles lately. Here is what was delayed between myself and two colleagues over a sunday/monday period:

    Me: SYD - PER 747-300 3 hour delay
    PER - KAL 737-800 1 1/2 hour delay
    Also noticed in Sydney two other flights to PER were delayed

    Col 1: PER - MEL 1 1/2 hour delay
    MEL - SYD 1 hour delay

    Col 2: MEL - PER 3 hour delay.

    I've never really seen it like this - someone has to give in!


    User currently offlineQantas787 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
    Reply 11, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 6941 times:

    Get a grip folks - once fog rolls in it snowballs for the rest of the day. Hey I like that analogy I just did!

    User currently offlineSydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 3189 posts, RR: 21
    Reply 12, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 6597 times:



    Quoting Qantas787 (Reply 11):
    Get a grip folks - once fog rolls in it snowballs for the rest of the day. Hey I like that analogy I just did!

    Indeed. The fog recently has been quite something in terms of delaying flights. That plus the aircraft engineers action is impacting operationally on the international ops if there is anything even remotely wrong with the aircraft.

    Clearly the dispute must be resolved soon.


    User currently offlineToptravel From Italy, joined Oct 2005, 144 posts, RR: 0
    Reply 13, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 6474 times:

    5% wage increase is not a lot, when you consider inflation running at around 3.9%, seems pretty reasonable to me for the people who keep your means of business happening in a safe and reliable manner. Maybe Mr Dixon could donate the extra 2 mill between what he is offering and what the engineers want, from his amazing salary.

    All seems pretty silly really, Qantas industrial relations really need to be looked at by the shareholders, I'm pretty mad considering what this has cost the company already, not only financially but also with good relations with employees, who when it gets down to it make the company.


    User currently offlineDocPepz From Singapore, joined May 2001, 1971 posts, RR: 3
    Reply 14, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 6369 times:



    Quoting Toptravel (Reply 13):
    Maybe Mr Dixon could donate the extra 2 mill between what he is offering and what the engineers want, from his amazing salary.

    According to this article, it will cost QF much more than $2 million.

    http://www.news.com.au/business/story/0,23636,23843566-462,00.html

    Mr Dixon is resolute in his final offer of 3 per cent: "We are holding the line. We must hold the line. If we were to give in to that extra 2 per cent, it would cost us, across the board, $360 million after the third year. This company can't afford this," he said.

    Significant delays ex SYD on 15 Jun 08

    QF63 Johannesburg 10:00 14:49
    QF107 Los Angeles 10:20 11:49
    JQ17 Osaka 11:30 13:13
    QF187 Hong Kong 14:25 15:20
    QF31 Singapore 16:55 18:09
    QF1 Bangkok 17:00 21:30

    Delays ex MEL on 15 Jun 08:

    QF9 Singapore 15:30 19:15

    So - not as bad as yesterday I guess.


    User currently offlineOzvirginuk From Australia, joined Jan 2005, 396 posts, RR: 5
    Reply 15, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 6339 times:



    Quoting QFA380 (Reply 8):
    then they take it out on the FA's and ground staff even though they are more pissed off than the pax.

    I'm not entirely sure this is true.. bear in mind it's the disgruntled pax who've paid thousands of dollars for their tickets.. so I'm pretty sure they'll be (and with good reason) the most pissed off.

    I've worked at LHR as ground staff, and yes it's shit when delays happen as the pax are (some of them anyway) more difficult, but hey... that's what we got paid for.

    Quoting QFA380 (Reply 8):
    I think they have to give compensation to pax on EU flights with delays over 6 hours, not sure about the others though.

    This is correct. Under newish EU laws, all flights to/from EU airports are subject to the EU regulations with regard to delays. Where a flight is delayed 4 or more hours, pax are entitled to compensation, and this compensation increases as the delay time increases. I think the max compensation is about EUR600 for a passenger. This of course only applies to delays that are within the airline's control. Weather related delays are not the fault of the airline, so generally the airlines don't have to cough up for those. Maintenance/Technical delays however, well that's another story..


    User currently offlineClassicLover From Ireland, joined Mar 2004, 4659 posts, RR: 23
    Reply 16, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 6286 times:



    Quoting Toptravel (Reply 13):
    5% wage increase is not a lot, when you consider inflation running at around 3.9%, seems pretty reasonable to me for the people who keep your means of business happening in a safe and reliable manner.

    Well, Qantas are offering 3% pay rise and 1% extra superannuation, for a total of 4%. In all reality there should be no issues - this big dustup is over a paltry 1% and I reckon the engineers should just let it go.



    I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
    User currently offlineLOUMEL From Australia, joined May 2008, 65 posts, RR: 0
    Reply 17, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 6115 times:



    Quoting Qantas787 (Reply 11):

    Doesn't really explain anything. The Virgin flights were departing just fine and they had no delays extending past 15 min on Friday night, and when asked nobody at Qantas mentioned anything about fog or fog induced delays. Last Tuesday, yes flights were fog affected but Virgin less so, Thursday had early fog in Sydney but both the Qantas and Virgin flights were fine.

    What I'm noticing as I wander around the terminal for the umpteenth delay (and staying away from the near brawl that's the Qantas club on those days) is how Virgin flights are getting away on time whilst Qantas is stuck, which is why I'm flying DJ on Thursday.


    User currently offlineFlyingroo From Australia, joined Feb 2007, 26 posts, RR: 0
    Reply 18, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 5968 times:



    Quoting DocPepz (Reply 14):
    Delays ex MEL on 15 Jun 08:

    QF9 Singapore 15:30 19:15

    Just departed at 21:25 so just under a 6 hour delay, not a great outcome at all.

    I've been flying back and forth to the UK with QF for the past 5 years and I have to agree that delays on these long haul sectors are becoming more and more frequently. Everything from faulty cargo doors to auxiliary power problems to broken toilets. The 747 fleet is just barely hanging together. Now resorting to taking BA ex-SYD and CX ex-MEL which is a shame as I prefer to QF product.

    Apart from the engineers industrial action, their fleet is just being stretched to the max. Can anyone see an end to this situation (apart from the A380 joining the fleet)?


    User currently offlineClassicLover From Ireland, joined Mar 2004, 4659 posts, RR: 23
    Reply 19, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 5880 times:



    Quoting Flyingroo (Reply 18):
    Apart from the engineers industrial action, their fleet is just being stretched to the max. Can anyone see an end to this situation (apart from the A380 joining the fleet)?

    Well, the A380s are in service pretty soon - it will relieve the pressure instantly. I don't think that QF are planning to retire any 744s though. They're all getting Premium Economy installed and will probably be used for new routes. However, it might allow for better maintenance or more frequent!



    I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
    User currently offlineSydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 3189 posts, RR: 21
    Reply 20, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 5583 times:



    Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 19):
    However, it might allow for better maintenance or more frequent!

    I believe that the stated plan is for them to reduce 744 flying which interprets as having the same number of 744's in the fleet but reducing utilisation once the A380's arrive. Certainly the 744 fleet has been pushed to the max and I think it is starting to show.


    User currently offlineAerorobNZ From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7389 posts, RR: 16
    Reply 21, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 5434 times:



    Quoting Nzrich (Reply 7):
    I feel sorry for the ground staff that handle QF and their inflight crew can just imagine how many complaints they would be handling ...

    QF have had a bad run in AKL as well. Have dealt with several of their larger delays, and have only had a couple of passengers that were hostile rather than just disappointed, and they were both the "irate unless I get an upgrade kind of passenger" . Have been in my job for long enough to know how to deal with those kinds of people though.


    User currently offline777YYC From Canada, joined May 2000, 744 posts, RR: 6
    Reply 22, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 5358 times:

    Have flights inbound to Australia been affected much by this?
    Most of the delays look like they've been outbound but I'd be surprised if the delays didn't carry on down the line somehow. I'm flying QF74 SFO-SYD next month (my first long haul international flight after years of being a plane geek), so I really hope that inbound ops aren't affected too much.


    User currently offlineBALHRWWCC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
    Reply 23, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 5296 times:

    Noticed the QF001 into LHR this am (16 JUN) is just showing DELAYED. No next info or anything.

    Just Checked flightstats.com. Flight delayed 920mins thats 15hrs 20mins ex SYD. Anyone know the reason for this delay?

    Flight due into LHR 21:35 and should depart as QF2 at 22:!5 Only problem is will probably not be able to leave to return to OZ until 17th June am due to Night curfew at LHR.

    Other delays for today 16JUN found on flight stats ex SYD so far are :

    QF73 SFO 1hr 55mins
    QF187 HKG 2hr 40mins
    QF31 SIN 3hr 35mins
    QF1 BKK 4hrs

    Surely QF are gonna have to cancel some flights to get the program back to normal.

    Spoke to a mate based at LHR for QF and he was saying with all the delays they are running very low on crew who can operate flights in the next few days due to the delays and also due to QF only ever giving the crew one night in SIN/HKG and BKK.

    Also noticed quite a few 767 internal flights are cancelled

    [Edited 2008-06-15 18:37:19]

    User currently offlineAirnewzealand From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 2544 posts, RR: 6
    Reply 24, posted (6 years 6 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 4854 times:



    Quoting Nzrich (Reply 7):
    I feel sorry for the ground staff that handle QF and their inflight crew can just imagine how many complaints they would be handling ...

    Thanks NZrich...Lets just say, we are all very patient people in this job. On my last trip i was abused ( i mean SCREAMED at) atleast 10 times by passengers...im not taking it to heart though. I know they are not angry at me personally, rather the company...im just the face of the company. However, it is getting increasingly stressful and tense on our flights of late.

    I was recently on a flight SYD-AKL... we boarded, everything fine, then engineers come back and instructed all passengres must disembark the aircraft as engine run has to be performed. No problems... We offloaded the passengers and were instructed a delay of 1 hour. Three of te crew went out into the terminal and we started handing out juice/water/pretzels and almonds/nuts. Went to board the aircraft again...but then engineers said their time was up and they had to go...i didnt understand, and i still donot have any idea about their contractual obligations etc...all i know is we were then delayed 5 hours and the ground staff had no vouchers to hand out...I couldnt believe it...We then went back into the terminal, passengers were fumming (rightly so) and all you could hear over the PA system at the airport was ...

    JNB dlayed 7 hours
    SIN delayed 5 hours
    LAX delayed 5 hours

    It was quite dis-heartning to see the airline i started with so completely different to how it is today.

    Quoting BALHRWWCC (Reply 23):
    Spoke to a mate based at LHR for QF and he was saying with all the delays they are running very low on crew who can operate flights in the next few days due to the delays and also due to QF only ever giving the crew one night in SIN/HKG and BKK.

    LHR based crew get 50hrs downtime in HKG...They must be changing their patterns to allow for these delays.

    Cheers guys...

    PS: I have it on good authority they are combining MANY flights...especially LAX and SIN flights...this might explain why some were cancelled.


    25 DocPepz : QF2 turned around after takeoff from LHR last night and is scheduled to leave at 1400 today, about 16 hours past its scheduled departure time. Other i
    26 Abrelosojos : = ... that's right ... lets raise everyone's wages, and let the wage inflation take care of institutionalized inflation ... and let the spiral just c
    27 Ken777 : Several questions come to mind. Are any of the mx issues related to work done overseas? Seems that there were no problems like this ona wide scale whe
    28 Qantas787 : I guess if it was related to overseas mx, wouldn't that mean they all would be breaking down as well. I can't see the correlation between overseas mx
    29 Allrite : Does Jetstar basically use one aircraft on rotation between SYD-KIX-BNE-SYD? I flew JQ17 SYD-KIX on 8 June and we were delayed by about an hour when
    30 SYDAircargo : you don't want to give unions that much power that they run an Airline. since Labor is back in government Australia sees alot more union action than
    31 DocPepz : Letter to The Straits Times, Singapore, on 19 Jun 08 ST Forum Bad on you, mate, for making a botched schedule worse 417 words 19 June 2008 Straits Tim
    32 Planesarecool : 05:25 QF009 MELBOURNE VIA SINGAPORE EXPECTED 2030 07:00 QF001 SYDNEY VIA BANGKOK EXPECTED 1000 Not looking good into LHR today. The other two flights
    33 Legacyins : QF 73 was delayed into SFO today, Friday. It arrived at 1625, a 6 hour delay.
    34 Mal787 : Yet another bad day for QF Flights out of Sydney Int for 25/6/08 QF5 the delayed flight from 24th departed this morning @9.am QF 127 the am Hong Kong
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