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Piedmont/USAir Baltimore Hub  
User currently offlineN702ML From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4611 times:

Hello all...

I've been working on a project for a few weeks now some of you may be interested in...

It is a spreadsheet-like chart showing the rise and decline of the Piedmont Airlines/USAir Baltimore hub over the years.

The web site address is:

www.departedflights.com/PIBWIhub.html

A similar project about American's Nashville hub provoked a pretty good discussion. Hope this does the same.

Enjoy!

43 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineIsitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 23
Reply 1, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4583 times:

I see there is a lot of work involved here. Nice job and thanks for posting..
If anyone asks why the re-gress in recent years, just spell it

H-E-R-B.
safe



If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
User currently offline777fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2524 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4582 times:

Well done - very easy to read. It's pretty sad to see US' presence at BWI dwindle to the point where they have about as many dailies as the rest of the legacies. The rationale for the downsize makes sense given the proximity to PIT and PHL, which were also concurrent US hubs at one point.

The question begs: why did US opt to stick with PHL, over say, BWI? From reading the PHL fans' posts, it seems to me that PHL has more O&D traffic but it also seems to me that a carrier would want to have a hub closer to the DC metro area. BWI fits that bill well, and given the fact that it can handle W/B, international flights (DCA cannot), I would think that it would make more sense than PHL which is a bit larger than BWI, but another 110 miles from the DC Beltway.

Sadly, BWI's international traffic has evaporated to a token BA flight, some Apple Vacations charters, Air Jamaica, and military charters.

Food for thought, and discussion.


777fan



DC-8 61/63/71 DC-9-30/50 MD-80/82/83 DC-10-10/30 MD-11 717 721/2 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 741/2/4 752 762/3 777 A306/319/20/33 AT
User currently offlineTN757Flyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 4563 times:



Quoting 777fan (Reply 2):
The question begs: why did US opt to stick with PHL, over say, BWI?

As ItsSafeNow pointed out, US Air was effectively run out of town by Southwest. BWI was ripe for the picking, US was bleeding badly at the time, and WN does what it does best - came in and wiped the tarmac with the competition. Pretty simple.


User currently offline777fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2524 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 4496 times:



Quoting Isitsafenow (Reply 1):
If anyone asks why the re-gress in recent years, just spell it

H-E-R-B.



Quoting TN757Flyer (Reply 3):
As ItsSafeNow pointed out, US Air was effectively run out of town by Southwest.

I don't disagree that WN is a factor, but I don't believe it's the only reason. The question I'm more interested in figuring out is why US opted for PHL over BWI. WN's presence could have been mitigated to an extent by feeds into/out of international traffic. WN's fares out of BWI are hardly anything to write home about, in fact, in some cases, they're more expensive than the legacies. Moreover, WN's presence at BWI didn't really begin to ramp up until US had all but bailed at BWI.


777fan



DC-8 61/63/71 DC-9-30/50 MD-80/82/83 DC-10-10/30 MD-11 717 721/2 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 741/2/4 752 762/3 777 A306/319/20/33 AT
User currently offlineDavidlc3 From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 341 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 4398 times:

Flying out of BWI was the highlight of my career - it was all that being a crew member was meant to be. A number of the DCA girls transferred into the base when it was opened but from there it was staffed with a TON of new hires. More fun on more layover with more people than the rest of my 8 years put together.

At 10 months I was able to hold a 767, 3 day transcon line at a time when it took 10+ years to hold the same pattern in GSO or CLT. Imagine 7 new hire F/As on a 767 with a 24 hour LA layover...those were THE good old days  Smile


User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 4341 times:



Quoting TN757Flyer (Reply 3):
As ItsSafeNow pointed out, US Air was effectively run out of town by Southwest. BWI was ripe for the picking, US was bleeding badly at the time, and WN does what it does best - came in and wiped the tarmac with the competition. Pretty simple.

To say that SWA that drove US "out of town" (Even with the "effectively" qualifier) is overstating it just a little bit----it appears that US (and US alone) made plenty of mistakes that allowed SWA to come in and start picking up the slack (i.e. "growing like gangbusters")

US snagged PSA (Pacific Southwest Airlines) in 1987, and after effectively dismantling much of PSA's old system, SWA started OAK in 1989.

US snagged Winston-Salem, NC-based Piedmont 1988, and after also closing PI's DAY hub and making other servce changes, SWA didn't start BWI service until 1993. US started "Metrojet" in response" and things went further downhill from there.

Your spreadsheet looks pretty interesting...


User currently offlineDavidlc3 From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 341 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 4260 times:



Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 6):
US (and US alone) made plenty of mistakes

VERY true.

At the time of the merger we had hubs in SYR, BWI, DCA, PHL, PIT, DAY & IND. We pulled out of and build up BWI on a regular basis - never knew from day to day whether it was growing or shrinking.

In the late 80's we started something "new" in BWI (it was THE hub for testing new concepts) - this one was "Business Select." The first 14 (?) rows of the 737-200 were convertible from Y to C (6 abreast to 5 abreast) along with upgraded snacks, etc. Before boarding in each city we would find out how many rows we needed and would change the necessary rows and cabin divider accordingly.

BWI was also ground zero for the "Project High Ground" which was a quick turn model for the 737-200. We were double and triple catered to make 15 minute turns...

BWI was a great base.


User currently offlineCaptaink From Mexico, joined May 2001, 5109 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 4202 times:



Quoting Davidlc3 (Reply 7):
In the late 80's we started something "new" in BWI (it was THE hub for testing new concepts) - this one was "Business Select." The first 14 (?) rows of the 737-200 were convertible from Y to C (6 abreast to 5 abreast) along with upgraded snacks, etc. Before boarding in each city we would find out how many rows we needed and would change the necessary rows and cabin divider accordingly.

BWI was also ground zero for the "Project High Ground" which was a quick turn model for the 737-200. We were double and triple catered to make 15 minute turns...

When I did US training/history, they didn't mention that. They got as far as Metrojet. HAHA



There is something special about planes....
User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 4186 times:

Nice ework, very thourough

User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6826 posts, RR: 32
Reply 10, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 4175 times:



Quoting 777fan (Reply 2):
why did US opt to stick with PHL, over say, BWI? From reading the PHL fans' posts, it seems to me that PHL has more O&D traffic but it also seems to me that a carrier would want to have a hub closer to the DC metro area. BWI fits that bill well, and given the fact that it can handle W/B, international flights (DCA cannot), I would think that it would make more sense than PHL which is a bit larger than BWI, but another 110 miles from the DC Beltway.

The D.C. metro area has another international airport at IAD, which is a similar distance from the District as BWI. IAD also has the psychological advantage of being identified as a "Washington" airport, even though BWI is more convenient for many in the region. PHL is the primary airport for its region, and as such is far more attractive for both domestic and international O&D traffic when compared with BWI.

The Piedmont purchase was far more about eliminating a growing competitor than it was about developing a viable hub structure. BWI, DAY, and SYR were all taking traffic away from the big US hub at PIT and the smaller hub at PHL.

But once Southwest went into BWI, the writing was on the wall for the USAir hub there.


User currently offlineTom in NO From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 7194 posts, RR: 33
Reply 11, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 4169 times:

I almost took a job with PI at BWI back in '83 when the hub was being started. I was in grad school at Embry-Riddle, though not working hard at it, took the interview, then come to find out we wouldn't be paid during training, and would have to front our expenses (as a struggling college student who had enough troubles dealing with apartment housing in DAB), I had to decline the offer.

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 6):
US snagged PSA (Pacific Southwest Airlines) in 1987, and after effectively dismantling much of PSA's old system,

This former high school trainee at PSAstill hasn't forgiven US for ripping PSA apart.

Tom at MSY



"The criminal ineptitude makes you furious"-Bruce Springsteen, after seeing firsthand the damage from Hurricane Katrina
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 4152 times:

Quoting Tom in NO (Reply 11):
I almost took a job with PI at BWI back in '83 when the hub was being started. I was in grad school at Embry-Riddle, though not working hard at it, took the interview, then come to find out we wouldn't be paid during training, and would have to front our expenses (as a struggling college student who had enough troubles dealing with apartment housing in DAB), I had to decline the offer.

Ironically, in late 1981/early 1982 I had decided to leave QH, and one of the places I ended up looking (before eventually landing back at SWA) was a new BWI-based start-up by the name of Columbia Air. They were planning to use DC-9s (-30s or -50s, IIRC, maybe some ex- TI birds), but they never got off the ground. I guess their financial backers felt that PI's BWI hub (such as it was about to exist) was too much of an insurmountable ostacle.

[Edited 2008-06-16 09:53:30]

User currently offlineUSPIT10L From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 3295 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 4134 times:



Quoting Davidlc3 (Reply 7):
At the time of the merger we had hubs in SYR, BWI, DCA, PHL, PIT, DAY & IND. We pulled out of and build up BWI on a regular basis - never knew from day to day whether it was growing or shrinking.

In the late 80's we started something "new" in BWI (it was THE hub for testing new concepts) - this one was "Business Select." The first 14 (?) rows of the 737-200 were convertible from Y to C (6 abreast to 5 abreast) along with upgraded snacks, etc. Before boarding in each city we would find out how many rows we needed and would change the necessary rows and cabin divider accordingly.

The hubs at the time of the PI merger were PIT, CLT, PHL, BWI, DAY and SYR. CLE, IND and LAX were referred to as "connecting complexes," which seems like another word for focus city.

USAir Business Select was started around the time of US427. I created a thread about Business Select about two years ago, didn't get a real response, and asked some of my friends from US Airways about it.



It's a Great Day for Hockey!
User currently offline777fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2524 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 4117 times:



Quoting ScottB (Reply 10):
The D.C. metro area has another international airport at IAD,

Yes, I'm aware of the IAD-BWI situation; I frequent both airports and in all honesty, they serve some of the same, but mostly very different markets.

Quoting ScottB (Reply 10):
PHL is the primary airport for its region, and as such is far more attractive for both domestic and international O&D traffic when compared with BWI.

Sez who? For what 'region' does PHL serve as the primary? I would venture to guess that it's the "not-quite-NY-but-too-far-from-DC" region?! There seems to be little if any strategic rationale as to why US bailed on BWI in lieu of PHL. BWI actually does serve a decent amount of DC-area traffic. Despite its heavy presence at DCA, US essentially screws itself by having to feed international travel to/from the DC area, through PHL. They likely could've circumvented this problem and increased their competitiveness in the (DC) Beltway had they used BWI as their East Coast international 'hub'.


777fan



DC-8 61/63/71 DC-9-30/50 MD-80/82/83 DC-10-10/30 MD-11 717 721/2 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 741/2/4 752 762/3 777 A306/319/20/33 AT
User currently offlineDavidlc3 From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 341 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 4101 times:



Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 13):
USAir Business Select was started around the time of US427. I created a thread about Business Select about two years ago, didn't get a real response, and asked some of my friends from US Airways about it.

It was the ONLY time in my years at PI/US that I felt they got it right...at least where the onboard service was concerned.

For example, tons of snacks, etc were bulk loaded for us to serve onboard. They put the stuff in the bulk box upside down so that we could simply flip it into a basket and have it ready for service...little stuff like that which allowed us to provide an excellent service in the cabin instead of spending all our time in the galley.


On another topic - the graph shows service to LGW during the later years. That service was part of our purchase from TW if I remember correctly but was later transitioned to the wet lease op with BA...??


User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6826 posts, RR: 32
Reply 16, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 4054 times:



Quoting 777fan (Reply 14):
For what 'region' does PHL serve as the primary?

Seriously? The Philadelphia (SE Pennsylvania/Southern NJ/northern Delaware) metro area has 5.8 million people -- fifth in the nation. It's the "close to Philadelphia region." People in and around Philadelphia typically don't drive to BWI or EWR (unless the savings are substantial) to catch flights.

Quoting 777fan (Reply 14):
There seems to be little if any strategic rationale as to why US bailed on BWI in lieu of PHL. BWI actually does serve a decent amount of DC-area traffic. Despite its heavy presence at DCA, US essentially screws itself by having to feed international travel to/from the DC area, through PHL.

For domestic traffic, having hubs/focus cities at both BWI and DCA is not particularly helpful since locals will generally favor one airport or the other and connecting people between the airports is impractical. Sure, having a market presence at DCA could help draw local traffic to international service at BWI, but it won't help with the connecting traffic that you'd need to fill the international flights from BWI. So US would have to offer domestic service from BWI which would end up competing with its own service from DCA (not to mention the large WN operation at BWI today). They'd also end up competing with United's international gateway at IAD.

IAD is relatively weak as a domestic hub because DCA steals much of its in-perimeter traffic. United has fewer than 80 daily domestic mainline departures from IAD.

PHL has neither of those disadvantages -- it's the preferred airport for Philly-area travelers, has a large local market, and offers relatively easy domestic-to-international connections.


User currently offlineDavidlc3 From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 341 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3980 times:



Quoting ScottB (Reply 16):
PHL has neither of those disadvantages -- it's the preferred airport for Philly-area travelers, has a large local market, and offers relatively easy domestic-to-international connections.

It is also reputed to be one of the most corrupted airport environments in the nation with unparalled challenges and problems from the unions.


User currently offline777fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2524 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3844 times:



Quoting ScottB (Reply 16):
Seriously? The Philadelphia (SE Pennsylvania/Southern NJ/northern Delaware) metro area has 5.8 million people -- fifth in the nation.

Don't know if you looked, but the population of the Baltimore-Washington area tops 8 million and just happens to be home to the U.S. government and the bureaucracy that engulfs it. BWI more or less sits in the middle of that area:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...-Northern_Virginia_CSA%2C_2005.png

Quoting ScottB (Reply 16):
For domestic traffic, having hubs/focus cities at both BWI and DCA is not particularly helpful since locals will generally favor one airport or the other and connecting people between the airports is impractical.

Right, which is why I think it'd be better to feed int'l traffic through BWI - at least you're in the neighborhood - and limited domestic traffic into DCA. As it stands, US doesn't seem to know what to do with DCA.

Quoting ScottB (Reply 16):
PHL has neither of those disadvantages -- it's the preferred airport for Philly-area travelers, has a large local market, and offers relatively easy domestic-to-international connections.

I think you're missing my point. I'm not claiming that PHL is a waste of a hub, I'm merely saying that US probably would have been better served by not bailing on BWI, in lieu of moving everything to PHL. Long term, there'll always be more money, and more business-oriented travel in the capital area, IMO, they probably would've done alright feeding some of their domestic to international (and vice-versa) connections through BWI. As they story goes, they dumped BWI, let WN move in, and will never regain what they had.

While I don't think BWI will ever be anyone's preferred int'l gateway to the DC-area, it's a convenient option for many, and would've served US very well had they kept at least some of what they had.


777fan



DC-8 61/63/71 DC-9-30/50 MD-80/82/83 DC-10-10/30 MD-11 717 721/2 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 741/2/4 752 762/3 777 A306/319/20/33 AT
User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8770 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3816 times:



Quoting 777fan (Reply 14):
There seems to be little if any strategic rationale as to why US bailed on BWI in lieu of PHL.

Get real. Philly / North Jersey beats wonderful Baltimore, USA by a ratio of about 8:1. Take a look at a map. Then, take a look at a U.S. census.

Baltimore is hardly even a metro area. Philly is one of the major metro areas in the world. This is not an arguable fight. It is clear cut. US picked PHL and were surprisingly correct in doing so.


User currently offline777fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2524 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 3765 times:



Quoting Flighty (Reply 19):
Philly is one of the major metro areas in the world.

In the world, huh?! Perhaps on the planet you're living on. Baltimore-Philladelphia opinions aside, a metro population of 8 million doesn't even rank in the top ten in Asia.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 19):
Baltimore is hardly even a metro area.

Did you bother to look at the map linked above? It includes Washington - you're aware that the federal government is spread out through that area, right?

777fan



DC-8 61/63/71 DC-9-30/50 MD-80/82/83 DC-10-10/30 MD-11 717 721/2 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 741/2/4 752 762/3 777 A306/319/20/33 AT
User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6826 posts, RR: 32
Reply 21, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3734 times:



Quoting 777fan (Reply 18):
Don't know if you looked, but the population of the Baltimore-Washington area tops 8 million and just happens to be home to the U.S. government and the bureaucracy that engulfs it. BWI more or less sits in the middle of that area:

IAD and DCA both sit closer to the center of the image you referenced. And again, even though the population of the combined Washington & Baltimore areas is larger, BWI competes with two other major airports for domestic travel and one major airport for international travel in its catchment area. PHL competes with no major airports for either domestic or international travel aside from BWI on its extreme southern fringe or EWR on its extreme northern fringe.

If BWI were such an appealing travel market, we'd see at least as much service from major European carriers as we see at PHL. As it is, the BA flight to London struggles to survive in spite of no direct competition. PHL has BA, AF, and LH even with head-to-head competition from US. The European carriers all serve Washington via IAD.

Quoting 777fan (Reply 18):
Right, which is why I think it'd be better to feed int'l traffic through BWI - at least you're in the neighborhood - and limited domestic traffic into DCA. As it stands, US doesn't seem to know what to do with DCA.

Again, DCA can support the domestic traffic on its own without a problem. BWI can't provide the international traffic without domestic feed. But if US Airways had chosen to maintain a hub at BWI with substantial domestic flying, they'd be competing against their own (lucrative) operation at DCA. PHL can't support all of its international service based solely on O&D, either -- but it can provide domestic feed without stealing passenger traffic away from the valuable DCA focus city.

Quoting 777fan (Reply 18):
I'm merely saying that US probably would have been better served by not bailing on BWI, in lieu of moving everything to PHL. Long term, there'll always be more money, and more business-oriented travel in the capital area, IMO, they probably would've done alright feeding some of their domestic to international (and vice-versa) connections through BWI.

But again:
* BWI competes with IAD for international traffic and suffers from the (misguided) perception that it's "Baltimore's airport."
* BWI competes with DCA domestically and DCA has long been a profitable focus city for US. Why compete with yourself?
* Having the only network hub in the nation's fifth largest metro area is potentially a very, very lucrative market position.


User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8770 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3724 times:



Quoting 777fan (Reply 20):
Did you bother to look at the map linked above? It includes Washington - you're aware that the federal government is spread out through that area, right?

Actually, no, Baltimore is its own MSA in the census data. Philadelphia is #5, Washington is #10, and Baltimore / Towson, MD is #20, with a still respectable 2.6 million people.

Obviously Asian cities have a lot of people.... do they have as much O&D demand as Philadelphia, generally no, you can count those cities on one hand.


Look, I do not live in Philadelphia nor care that much about it. But Baltimore is more like Denver or Tampa, FL (its peers in metro size) and not like LAX, Dallas or Philadelphia, the true heavyweight American cities. They are in different categories. US Airways would not have an international hub in Baltimore Maryland any sooner than it would in Tampa Florida. Thanks for all your entertaining views though.


User currently offlineVega From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3692 times:



Quoting 777fan (Reply 18):
Don't know if you looked, but the population of the Baltimore-Washington area tops 8 million and just happens to be home to the U.S. government and the bureaucracy that engulfs it. BWI more or less sits in the middle of that area:



Quoting 777fan (Reply 18):
I think you're missing my point. I'm not claiming that PHL is a waste of a hub, I'm merely saying that US probably would have been better served by not bailing on BWI, in lieu of moving everything to PHL. Long term, there'll always be more money, and more business-oriented travel in the capital area, IMO, they probably would've done alright feeding some of their domestic to international (and vice-versa) connections through BWI. As they story goes, they dumped BWI, let WN move in, and will never regain what they had.

The fact the BWI is located within a large CSA has little to do with the situation. Other than geographic connectivity, airlines choose hubs primarily for Yield potential. As was mentioned before, PHL competes with no one in it's CSA, whereas BWI competes with DCA for domestic and IAD for international passengers. An example of Yield potential can be easily exampled by BA. BA has 2 daily flights PHL-LHR - one of which is a First Class configuration (777). BA does not send a year round 1st class aircraft to a city unless they are essentially guaranteed (by history) a sufficient load of top premium passengers. Another example of BA's satisfaction with PHL is the fact that they just recently invested in and completed construction of 2 new Lounges (First and Business) in A-West. All of this with virtually no connectivity - other than occasional minuscule spillover from AA. Essentially the same situation applies to LH and AF, which compete with US to Paris and Frankfurt. BOTH AF and LH constantly have >90% seasonal LFs from PHL. US has almost identical LFs to both cities, but is supported with Hub connectivity. On the other hand, Maryland has had to virtually bribe BA to offer a single flight out of BWI and it seems that BA still threatens to leave every year or so. If the business was there, you can bet BA wouldn't be so inclined to do so. Not withstanding the above, infrastructure wise, BWI would require major construction of a new separate international facility to support even 50% of US's international traffic at PHL's Terminal A - which has committed to expand with 4 additional gates in the near term and 8 more over the next several years - based on US's viability. As far as I know only 1 CSA has more than 1 Major international airport - and that is NYC. Notwithstanding the above, I believe that BWI could do well if WN decided to start international operations there - primarily because of the significant network feed and potential LCC (low) pricing. Another point is that even WN has stated (Kelly) to the press, that both BWI AND PHL are being looked at for international services. I'd be the first to admit, BWI would seem the better choice. There have been many emotional a-net Threads with a wealth of comments, particularly by Washington/Virginia users, as to why people prefer DCA/IAD over BWI.


User currently offlineUSPIT10L From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 3295 posts, RR: 7
Reply 24, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 3548 times:



Quoting Davidlc3 (Reply 15):
On another topic - the graph shows service to LGW during the later years. That service was part of our purchase from TW if I remember correctly but was later transitioned to the wet lease op with BA...??

Correct. So was PHL-LGW. Ironically, PIT's first transatlantic route was flown via PHL to LGW.



It's a Great Day for Hockey!
25 Tsnamm : of course these are arbitrary lines drawn on a map. As if someone lives outside these lines they do not use certain airports. BWI is convenient to th
26 DCA-ROCguy : Thank you, Greg, for putting that very interesting information together. As always, your efforts really contribute to our understanding and discussion
27 Flighty : I guess people in Maryland will use BWI. Personally I have rented a car at BWI just to drive to my destination in DC. It was a complete pain in the b
28 Nkops : Very nice work N702ML... I was working in ACY with US when we were doing the BWI flights (with the Shorts 360, and later the Beech1900). I enjoyed con
29 777fan : Right, but in my original argument, I was attempting to point out that, had US kept its more robust domestic presence at BWI, they could've benefitte
30 MSYPI7185 : The problem remains that basically every intl carrier, except for BA, has pulled out of BWI. If there were the demand for psgr to travel Intl from BW
31 CitrusCritter : You conveniently left out MARC (commuter train) and Amtrak. It's a 20 minute ride from Union Station on Capitol Hill to BWI. Do you have any idea wha
32 Prinair : Very nice work N702ML. I am a fan of your website DepartedFlights.com and really admire the hard work that you put into your site. I have a collection
33 DCA-ROCguy : Right, but in my original argument, I was attempting to point out that, had US kept its more robust domestic presence at BWI, they could've benefitted
34 Davidlc3 : I am going to agree and disagree you at the same time. As I mentioned in an earlier post we were very dynamic in making changes in the BWI market to
35 USPIT10L : Well-said. That's probably the best analysis of US Airways over the last 20-15 years. Agreed as well. I still have a copy of the tape US management s
36 Davidlc3 : Project Highground was a quick turn model tested out of BWI with the 737-200. They double and triple catered the a/c (the aft meal carts were filled
37 Post contains images DCA-ROCguy : That's really interesting that US was willing to experiment more in BWI than at their primary hubs. It sounds like they were already feeling competitv
38 Flighty : It's not just arrogance, it's fact. IAD is Washington's international airport, and everyone uses it. It has flights to Beijing, Kuwait City, London,
39 Davidlc3 : There was a large handle on the aisle facing of the row of seats. The handle was used to unlock a mechanism that allowed us to push 3 seats together
40 DCA-ROCguy : The agreements with the unions to start it strictly limited it to a "competitive response," so it only was sent where there was low-fare competition (
41 TN757Flyer : I'm not saying US Air didn't do it's share to screw up BWI, Metrojet amongst it's mistakes. Just recall they had well over 150 departures before WN e
42 ScottB : Well, I do agree that BWI lacks the potential to be a legacy international hub, but it's not for the reasons you give. EWR had long suffered from bei
43 Wn700driver : I lived in Rockville, and Silver Spring for a number of years (and not Red-line, Georgia Ave & 29 SS, I mean way out almost into Burtonsville.) At no
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