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Southwest Plans To Expand  
User currently offlineKarlB737 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3105 posts, RR: 10
Posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 10003 times:

From everything I have read of late Southwest like everybody else has been raising fares and carefully looking at ways to be even more economical. I have read nothing of any route expansion by them for the most part. No one could blame them for these prudent steps in the current airline atmosphere. Today I have discovered that with some more tweaking they think they can go forward with more market share. It will be interesting to see what happens.

At the same time Allegheny County Chief Executive Dan Onorato is in Dallas meeting with Gary Kelly in the interest of acquiring more flights by Southwest at PIT. A-Net members in the Pittsburgh area I ask you will additional WN flights pull in more passengers even in this tight economy? You will know best. Here below is the dope on both:


Courtesy: American-Statesman
Southwest Plans To Expand
http://www.statesman.com/business/co...wa.html?cxtype=rss&cxsvc=7&cxcat=3

Courtesy: Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
Onorato To Ask Southwest To Expand Flights Here
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08168/890205-28.stm

53 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMMEPHX From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 9897 times:



Quoting KarlB737 (Thread starter):
From everything I have read of late Southwest like everybody else has been raising fares and carefully looking at ways to be even more economical. I have read nothing of any route expansion by them for the most part. No one could blame them for these prudent steps in the current airline atmosphere. Today I have discovered that with some more tweaking they think they can go forward with more market share. It will be interesting to see what happens.

Southwest are probably watching the reaction from travelers to all the fees and changes announced by the legacies. Will it really drive people to WN in the longer term, be just a short term bump as travelers vent their frustration or will there be zero effect. If they detect a trend I'm sure they'll react in a manner to suit their business.

The big question is what would WN do if US did happen to go Chap 7? That would change a lot of the industry dynamics.


User currently offlineLambert747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 9760 times:

Remember Southwest Airlines has fares that are lower than the competition on a day to day basis. I dont think an expansion of Southwest Airlines is out of the question. For example Delta Air Lines has nearly depleted its Los Angeles, Orlando, Columbus, and Raleigh schedules. I dont think that it would take a stretch of the imagination for Delta Air Lines to expand or augment flying in any of those markets. It is my understanding that with LAWA and Delta Air Lines, that now Delta Air Lines/Connection is drawing down services, gates will be the next to follow. In that instance and has been recorded here and in the public press there has been nearly 30 destinations that Delta Air Lines/Connection have dropped in the Los Angeles market alone. This leads to periods of lack of utilization for gate space and so much more. This all could quiet possibly open doors for more moves at LAX, to maximize utilization.

On the West Coast as has been reported US Airways is dropping from around 140 flights per day at LAS to 70 some flights per day at LAS. This is a key market for Southwest Airlines, a market that I could, and can see further growth for them in the short term. On the East Coast I do not doubt for a minute that the Southwest Airlines operations will see a surge in passenger traffic, if nothing alone due to the $15 first bag fee. As with US Airways that combined with the nickel and diming for a drink are enough to make anyone think twice.

I am confident of Southwest Airlines growth on both the Western and Eastern coasts. I would not rule out the chance of a new "large market" being opened up within the next 6-9 months. Things have been quiet lately on the Southwest Airlines front, as they were before the entrance to the San Francisco, Denver, and Philadelphia markets.


User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 970 posts, RR: 51
Reply 3, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 9660 times:



Quoting KarlB737 (Thread starter):
From everything I have read of late Southwest like everybody else has been raising fares and carefully looking at ways to be even more economical.

I think WN needs to take a look at converting a number of their future 737-700 orders into -900ER variants with approximately 190-200 seats. That would provide a comfort level identical to their existing 737s.

The -900ER offers significantly improved CASM and WN has said on numerous occasions that the 4th FA issue is not a complicated matter.


User currently offlineVictorKilo From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 311 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 9638 times:

I don't foresee any major expansion by WN right now, for the same reason stated by their CEO ruling out mergers for WN: since their hedges cover current flying only, any new routes must be successful at current oil prices, not hedged prices, making it harder to find routes that can be successful.

That being said, I think Southwest is monitoring bookings for this fall to see if any of the recent capacity adjustments by the legacies is driving demand on any WN routes that would warrant additional frequencies or non-stop service on a current one-stop route. But we will see minor tactical additions, IMO, rather than a grand strategic expansion.


User currently offlineAirnerd From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 255 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 9631 times:



Quoting KarlB737 (Thread starter):
Remember Southwest Airlines has fares that are lower than the competition on a day to day basis.

Some fares are lower. Many advance fares are not. Lots of people think all WN fares are lower, but they actually can be quite a bit higher on some segments.


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 6, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 9571 times:



Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 3):
I think WN needs to take a look at converting a number of their future 737-700 orders into -900ER variants with approximately 190-200 seats. That would provide a comfort level identical to their existing 737s.

Do you want to pay for the extra FA's so that WN does not have to?

I didnt think so. In that retrospect, it isn't gonna happen with the 739ER.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22925 posts, RR: 20
Reply 7, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 9554 times:



Quoting MMEPHX (Reply 1):

The big question is what would WN do if US did happen to go Chap 7? That would change a lot of the industry dynamics.

Ironically, I think that would be about the worst possible scenario for PIT. If someone goes Ch. 7 (US or anyone else), WN will take advantage. If not, we'll see existing stations with room for growth (and I think DEN and PIT are the two obvious candidates) built up more if they choose to expand.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlinePanAm330 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2673 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 9511 times:



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 6):
Do you want to pay for the extra FA's so that WN does not have to?

I didnt think so. In that retrospect, it isn't gonna happen with the 739ER.

Did he not just say that WN has said the 4th FA isn't a big deal? The value of an additional 50+ seats and thus greatly reduced CASM far outweighs the cost of another flight attendant. WN has several routes that would be well-served with a -900ER.


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 9, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 9449 times:

Quoting PanAm330 (Reply 8):
Did he not just say that WN has said the 4th FA isn't a big deal?

I don't believe WN ever said that. A source is definitely needed on this one....

Quoting Tsaord (Reply 9):

Wrong thread, dude....wrong thread.... You wanna go here...

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...eneral_aviation/read.main/4029396/

[Edited 2008-06-16 16:02:40]


A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineTsaord From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 9428 times:



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 10):

Wrong thread, dude....wrong thread....

Yea I just noticed. Sorry about that.


User currently offlineSPREE34 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 2248 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 9429 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 7):
WN will take advantage.

As will the other surviving carriers.



I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5902 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 9408 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I hope WN will reintroduce some additional destinations or frequency into OAK.

User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 9366 times:



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 10):
I don't believe WN ever said that. A source is definitely needed on this one....

What was said (by some all-knowing ANetters), essentially was that SWA's keeping track of a theoretical 4th F/A on theoretical 738s or theoretical 739s would be some kind of insurmountable problem operationally-speaking. We've effectively run sub-fleets before (-200s in their twilight; 727-200s (and those without benefit of the computerization level that we have today)), so having a theoretical 4th F/A for use on a theoretical 738 fleet or theoretical 739 fleet would not be a big deal.

Despite my frequent use of the word "theoretical", watch someone still ask me when we're getting our 738s and 739s....  sarcastic 


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 14, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 9273 times:



Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 13):

Thank you, sir. Thank you for that!  Smile I knew WN never said that.  Smile



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 970 posts, RR: 51
Reply 15, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 8992 times:



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 6):

Do you want to pay for the extra FA's so that WN does not have to?

I didnt think so. In that retrospect, it isn't gonna happen with the 739ER.

If you take a route like DAL-HOU with 30 daily frequencies in both direction and you replace it with 22 737-900ER frequencies, you save 8 captains, 8 first officers, and 2 FAs. So as you can see, paying for labor is the exact reason to add 739ER.

Granted, the way WN schedules the 737-500s, they still work their way around the country so a route like DAL-HOU probably wouldn't go 100% 739ER.

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 13):

Despite my frequent use of the word "theoretical", watch someone still ask me when we're getting our 738s and 739s....

You're patience continues to be an example for all  Wink


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 16, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 8973 times:



Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 15):

Your opinion, but it isn't going to happen. It does not fit their business model.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineLambert747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 8931 times:



Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 15):
If you take a route like DAL-HOU with 30 daily frequencies in both direction and you replace it with 22 737-900ER frequencies, you save 8 captains, 8 first officers, and 2 FAs. So as you can see, paying for labor is the exact reason to add 739ER

The 737-900ER is not made, from what I can surmise for the wear and tear of multi cycles such as DFW-HOU over and over again. It would prove to kill yield vs operational cost. I would think that a routing, if and when Southwest Airlines get an aircraft of it size to work something like. SFO-LAS-BWI-LAS-SFO, or SEA-MDW-BDL-MDW-SEA. I could see something like DAL-HOU-LAS-LAX-LAS-HOU-DAL.


User currently offlineRoadrunner165 From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 874 posts, RR: 9
Reply 18, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 8900 times:

Buy when there is blood in the streets... thats what I say!


Adam


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22925 posts, RR: 20
Reply 19, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 8853 times:



Quoting Lambert747 (Reply 17):
The 737-900ER is not made, from what I can surmise for the wear and tear of multi cycles such as DFW-HOU over and over again.

What makes you say that?



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineTxAgKuwait From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 1803 posts, RR: 42
Reply 20, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 8853 times:

Let's talk about expansion for a moment. Remember you heard it here first.

Airlines without hedged fuel...those companies trying to shrink themselves to profitability (overlooking the fact that in the airline business, fixed costs can be almost as onerous as variable costs)....are already looking for novel sources of revenue.

Charging folks to check a bag, any bag....soft drinks....coffee...you name it.

At some point in time airlines are going to have to sell something to stay afloat and it is going to hurt. But someone will do it anyway. And it explains why WN got that money a while back.

LaGuardia slots and Washington National slots.

You've got to think that Southwest really would love to be in both those places. This downturn associated with the rise in fuel costs may be their golden opportunity to do just that.

It would be best to buy these assets out of a bankruptcy court during liquidation - but even if it doesn't come to that, I have no certain knowledge but I also have no doubt that someone will belly up to the bar and sell Southwest some space and some slots at those coveted airports.


User currently offlineRSBJ From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 152 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 8796 times:

PIT is just asking for more of us (WN) (pun intented). I have a feeling it's just a matter or time before WN dominates the PIT market; of course I could be wishful thinking!

Go Southwest!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



I fly really fast and take a lot of chances.
User currently offlineVegasplanes From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 778 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 8647 times:



Quoting MMEPHX (Reply 1):
The big question is what would WN do if US did happen to go Chap 7?

Answer

Quoting TxAgKuwait (Reply 20):
LaGuardia slots and Washington National slots.

I'm in 100% agreement with TxAgKuwait on the above. Though I believe WN would face one hell of a bidding war for those assets should US go Ch. 7.

Then again, the way the industry is going, not many other carriers will have the cash/financing available to load up on LGA and DCA gates/slots.

Based on the article in the Austin paper, WN is probably prepared to grow by taking market share. My question is how might WN acquire or re-route more aircraft in the event one of the legacy carriers does go bye-bye. If, for instance US is gone by the end of the year, how might WN handle having such a multitude of opportunities including: possible LGA/DCA stations with lots of flights, no competition to speak of in PHL and PHX with tons of room to grow, LAS expansion being that A and B gates would be practically deserted. Where would all the aircraft come from, new from Boeing, maybe some 733's from the desert?


User currently offlineVictorKilo From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 311 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 8462 times:



Quoting Vegasplanes (Reply 22):
My question is how might WN acquire or re-route more aircraft in the event one of the legacy carriers does go bye-bye. If, for instance US is gone by the end of the year, how might WN handle having such a multitude of opportunities including: possible LGA/DCA stations with lots of flights, no competition to speak of in PHL and PHX with tons of room to grow, LAS expansion being that A and B gates would be practically deserted. Where would all the aircraft come from, new from Boeing, maybe some 733's from the desert?

If any carrier failed, US or otherwise, I would expect WN would rush to acquire rare assets that would not become available unless an airline failed, assets that would be valuable to the point-to-point 737 network of WN. In the example of US, this would mean gates and or slots at PHL, LAX, DCA, LGA, and BOS, and including the Shuttle. If US failed, I doubt that other airlines would attempt to compete with the cost structure of WN at LAS and PHX, so I would think that these would be less of an initial priority for WN, but would be built up over time. WN could get a couple of gates at CLT, but I would expect another airline to build up a hub at CLT, possibly AA or CO, using the additional mainline flying as an incentive to get larger-than-50-seat RJ's introduced into their networks.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22925 posts, RR: 20
Reply 24, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 8356 times:



Quoting VictorKilo (Reply 23):
I doubt that other airlines would attempt to compete with the cost structure of WN at LAS and PHX, so I would think that these would be less of an initial priority for WN, but would be built up over time.

I'm not sure WN is in a position to expand any at LAS or PHX unless they open some new stations; they've done nearly all they can do with the present network at both places.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
25 WorldTraveler : your understanding is not correct. DL's gates at LAX are no longer under any usage requirements that could be tripped by their downsizing. WN will co
26 CO777ER : I think that --- IF --- WN were to consider the 739ER, airports where slots are hard to come by would benefit significantly. SNA jumps into my mind. I
27 ODwyerPW : So when is WN getting the 739ERs?
28 Ssides : Not to nitpick, but the travelers on routes such as DAL-HOU are so loyal, I doubt WN would really reduce frequencies that much. Everyone flying this
29 DfwRevolution : That's a rather bold statement to make without anything to support it. I find it ironic that the first two words of my post were "I think," which cou
30 Ckfred : It's not the fees alone that are affecting travel decisions. The continuing string of fare increases is also hurting travel. My wife works for a Fortu
31 OPNLguy : You're the winner! P.S., we've recently begun using 900-series numbers for new -700 deliveries (up to N923 so far), so I think that should have put t
32 TxAgKuwait : Remember you heard it here first. WN won't be buying any 737-900ERs. I don't even see any 737-800s on the horizon. Boeing will keep cranking out 737-7
33 DeltaL1011man : where do you get this? DL just got out of court with LAWA and they are keeping T5 and 1 gate on T6. DL had to pay somewhere around 35M but nothing is
34 N68TLCaptain : Alot of good things would happen to airlines if their management would just read some of the posts on this thread!! This is intense!
35 Swacmh : I seriously doubt you will see WN expand in PIT unless it is a HUGE barn-burner route. PIT is the most expensive (or 2nd most) airport to operate on o
36 Brilondon : You can't be serious about this. By adding 50 more seats would not reduce CASM due to the fact that WN is a 737-700 operator and would have to be abl
37 TxAgKuwait : They slowed down expansion plans, & delayed the arrival of some new aircraft.....BUT they also shelved plans to retire some older -300s, meaning that
38 Enilria : I hope they don't just keep pounding on Denver as their only expansion strategy. Hopefully in the coming months when a hub or two closes, they will ha
39 STT757 : WN wants US's LGA slots and gates in the worse way, WN could do a lot with US's LGA slots which are being used mostly for RJ's. Where WN can/would go
40 Jmc1975 : US has no plans to give up LGA slots.
41 Post contains links Barney Captain : Looks like we may expand....from Bloomberg; "June 17 (Bloomberg) -- Southwest Airlines Co., the only big U.S. carrier that's still profitable, may exp
42 Post contains links ERJ170 : Doesn't look like the PIT committee came back with favorable information.. Southwest doesn't commit to Pittsburg expansion
43 SANFan : The "retiring" a/c are already committed to (and scheduled on) the new DEN service (SMF, FLL, MSY, SFO and OMA) starting in August and Sept; includin
44 ScottB : Southwest typically plays its cards very close to the vest with respect to future service. That would not surprise me one bit. They might even get a
45 AirframeAS : A classic? Your opinion, hence the "I think".
46 PlanesNTrains : WN started out with 737-200's IIRC. They've flown 727's. They've bought other airlines. They've closed cities. They've changed boarding procedures. T
47 Avek00 : Indeed, WN pax tend to pay MORE than those who fly legacies on many sectors.
48 RDUDDJI : You're kidding right? No carrier is going to add another hub in this marketplace, and if they did, it surely wouldn't be CLT.
49 Steeler83 : Wow... what a shocker... did not see that one coming... Seriously, I think WN's main interest is trying to avoid turbulence, and not to expand market
50 MAH4546 : If US Airways were to go out of business, a carrier would quickly purchase their cheap assets and take-over Charlotte, most likely AA. Nobody will li
51 Ssides : That's not that outrageous. In fact, it's not a bad deal at all (and if they are the standard business traveler fare, with changes without penalty, i
52 Rdwelch : There you go, throwing facts and solid math at an issue... Any more the basic trip from say LAS to SLC/DEN/even PHX is less expensive to fly than dri
53 Ckfred : Actually, I used FF miles to book ORD-TPA. My wife wanted to go somewhere warm. She didn't care if it was California, Arizona, Texas, or Florida, so
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