UAopsMGR From Croatia (Hrvatska), joined Mar 2005, 144 posts, RR: 0 Posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 14325 times:
Last week I was in SFO for the day and purchased an F ticket on VX to fly back to LAX. On the flight a mother was traveling with her 1-2 year old "ish" child in 1A, and did not have a separate seat for the baby.
To make a long story short, the kid did not stop SCREAMING from the time we pushed from the gate until we landed at LAX. I was in 2F with noise canceling headphones on and could still hear the child's obnoxious crying.
I'm not trying to sound arrogant, and my tolerance may be less than others (I do not have children) but the other 7 passengers in the cabin including myself who paid for First did not have any peace and quiet the entire flight.
My questions are:
1.) At what point does an airline have a responsibility to intercede on behalf of their high paying customers when the temper tantrum's get out of control and the parent's obviously can't handle it?
2.) Should there be an age requirement for traveling in First Class?
Kids, you tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try.- Homer Simpson
AirframeAS From United States, joined Feb 2004, 8631 posts, RR: 25 Reply 1, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 14319 times:
Quoting UAopsMGR (Thread starter): 2.) Should there be an age requirement for traveling in First Class?
I'm in favor of this. It should be age 15 or older should be allowed in FC. Any younger should be required to sit in the back. I don't care who paid for the ticket or whatever, FC is self-explanatory.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
Longhornmaniac From Argentina, joined Jun 2005, 1868 posts, RR: 40 Reply 2, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 14270 times:
Quoting UAopsMGR (Thread starter):
1.) At what point does an airline have a responsibility to intercede on behalf of their high paying customers when the temper tantrum's get out of control and the parent's obviously can't handle it?
2.) Should there be an age requirement for traveling in First Class?
A sensitive subject, and I'm sure there will be many different perspectives.
My .
1) I'm not entirely sure how an airline can "intercede." Even though I'm not old enough to have kids yet, find me one parent who would "enjoy" having their kid throw a temper-tantrum anywhere, especially in first class. I guarantee you it is just as embarrassing for the parent as it is annoying to everyone else around them. If they're doing everything they can do, it's just one of those things you have to live with. The parent has just as much of a right to fly in F as anyone else does, and the airline couldn't "send them back" to Y, and they obviously couldn't just throw them off the plane. If the child was older and simply bouncing off the walls, the flight attendant could, and probably would tell the parent to get a hold of their child, but if it's a small child, you can't tell a parent to stop your kid from crying; it just doesn't work like that.
2) I've flip-flopped on this a lot, as I can see both sides. I've been flying in F and J a lot in my life, thanks to my dad's accrued AAdvantage miles. Occasionally, I'll use my own miles to upgrade, when I'm definitely the youngest one in F. I don't feel at all that I have any less of a right to be there, despite my "young" age. I don't really think there is a good claim to limit the age of anyone traveling, especially in the situation you provided. As I said, child or not, the parent has as much of a right as you did to have a seat up front.
Ultimately, I just don't think there is a fair way to restrict anyone from sitting in F.
If you ban young people from F, you've got a lot of rightfully unhappy parents.
If you let them sit in F, you've got a lot of understandably unhappy seat-mates.
The majority of people have experienced what the parents with the crying kids are experiencing, and can empathize, no matter how annoying it might be. It's just one of those situations...
Longhornmaniac From Argentina, joined Jun 2005, 1868 posts, RR: 40 Reply 3, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 14267 times:
Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 1): I'm in favor of this. It should be age 15 or older should be allowed in FC. Any younger should be required to sit in the back. I don't care who paid for the ticket or whatever, FC is self-explanatory.
Disagree completely. What about F makes it self-explanatory to ban a 14 year old (plenty of whom are perfectly well behaved) from sitting up there? Surely you're not suggesting that an adult is more qualified as a person to sit up there, just because of their age.
HAL From United States, joined Jan 2002, 1650 posts, RR: 39 Reply 4, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 14239 times:
Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 1): I'm in favor of this. It should be age 15 or older should be allowed in FC. Any younger should be required to sit in the back. I don't care who paid for the ticket or whatever, FC is self-explanatory.
Most definitely not. FC does not mean who can sit there, it means the type of service the airline provides. Should we screen only for good looking people to sit there? Screen out loud snorers? Make sure their i-pod headphones don't leak out that obnoxious rap music? Do you expect a 14 year-old will yell and make life miserable for you too? What's so magic about 15?
Most babies I see when I fly (which is a LOT) stay quiet. Yes, some scream, but in many cases they'll stay quiet for hours. But that's life, and the money you pay for FC doesn't guarantee quiet. It pays for larger seats, better food and service from the staff, and a quicker exit after landing. That's about it. If someone who has an infant with them wants the amenities of a FC seat, they should be able to purchase it.
HAL
One smooth landing is skill. Two in a row is luck. Three in a row and someone is lying.
Piskoto From Cyprus, joined Nov 2006, 127 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 14230 times:
I am screaming too but I am not 2, just 17.
When we travel F class, we are usually a gang of 5-6 people.
Occupying the half First class cabin, we never stop talking and laughing making the rest of F pax to regret paying a F ticket!
I enjoy the whole situation, i.e. being noisy, but at the end of the flight the rest F occupants want tot kill us!
StuckInCA From United States, joined Oct 2005, 1166 posts, RR: 1 Reply 6, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 14203 times:
I personally wouldn't take my infant in 1st class, but I'm not so sure it should be banned. I've been plenty irritated with obnoxious adults in long haul business class before (standing next to coworkers for hours on end having impromptu meetings, etc).
Hiflyer From United States, joined Nov 2004, 1534 posts, RR: 5 Reply 7, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 14203 times:
First off thank goodness for GOOD noise canceling headphones..grin.
Don't think you are going to get away with ticket restrictions by age in the US.....even though carriers do restrict by age for employee travel.
On a 90 min flt such as yours..and with fairly new cabin crew....probably grin and bear it is going to be the answer. On a transoceanic with an experienced crew there could be several other means that could be tried including finding a location where the child can lie down.
I can't understand this in the slightest. It seems like you enjoy purposely irritating the other patrons in F. If you're well aware you're doing it, it seems extraordinarily childish to not make an effort to stop, which seems to be what you're saying.
Very, very selfish. Treat others the way you'd want to be treated.
In my experience, headphones with ANR/ANC make things worse when your have 7 pound birth control encourager crying next to you.. I'm guessing it's since they drown out the engine noise but not the crying...and the engine noise is usually helpful in drowning out kids to an extent.
Reminds me of that annoying kid FL kicked off a flight.... then they got a ton of letters cheering them on for doing the right thing! (Slightly better than that time an FL FA asked the mom "have you ever heard of Benadryl?!)
If you're bored, check out this video:
Some examples of how happy people were at Airtran for kicking the tear factory off of the plane:
Quote: A screaming, hitting, disobedient three-year old girl was put off a Air Tran flight yesterday, along with her two parents.
The two adults—from Boston, naturally—said they simply needed more time to calm and cajole the three-year old into taking her seat and putting on her seat belt.
Read this little news item and tell me that the real problem is the airline, as the press account suggests.
Right. The problem is the parents. Their inability to control their child is treated as natural (“oh, what can we do?”). This is not unlike President Carter’s policy toward the Iranian hostage-takers and about as effective.
Somewhere in Hell there is a 737 packed with these psuedo-parents listening to other people’s children cry for all eternity.
These Boston-based parents think they were humiliated for being politely deplaned. Wrong again. They humiliated themselves for failing to keep their kid in line.
As far as I know, no one has asked these careless parents what their opinion of spanking is. But surely we can guess.
When you have to breaststroke to your connecting flight...it's a crash!
Eskzoo From Canada, joined Jan 2008, 57 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 14139 times:
I'm taking my 3 month old on his first flight tomorrow - a 8:10 long flight from YYZ to PRG in business (no F available!). I have to say that I've also had the chance to fly a bunch in C & F and have had more trouble with drunk 20 to 60 year olds than I have with infants.
Some of the airlines are better are dealing with infants and drunks than others. I remember a 50 year old guy who wanted to talk to me all night on an overnight flight from YYZ to PRG and when I put my mask on and tried to sleep he started poking me and telling me that he wasn't done his story. I actually had to ask the SD to tell him that I was trying to sleep and then the guy got up and stood in the galley the rest of the flight chatting with crew.
I'm hoping my kid sleeps the whole way for my benefit and the benefit of others. That being said the 4pm departure time doesn't help but the white noise the aircraft generates should help...
Also some legal eagle on the forum could probably tell you that both EU law and probably some UN declaration that have something to say on "ageism".
Piskoto From Cyprus, joined Nov 2006, 127 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 14147 times:
Quoting Longhornmaniac (Reply 8): I can't understand this in the slightest. It seems like you enjoy purposely irritating the other patrons in F. If you're well aware you're doing it, it seems extraordinarily childish to not make an effort to stop, which seems to be what you're saying.
Very, very selfish. Treat others the way you'd want to be treated.
I just hate those who pay a F class ticket just to get a quiter cabin! It's my trip, I want to enjoy myself, have fun on board and live up every moment! If I wanted some sleep I would JUST STAY HOME, where the bed is an 180^ one and much more comfortable!
HapppyLandings From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 12, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 14083 times:
Beat your kids and they will shut up! Stupid laws!!!.. lol
In all seriousness though, I do think there should be a min age for FC pax... When are they controllable, age 4? There are people paying 15,000$ on some FC tickets or more, they should not have to deal with a crying baby the whole flight for that kind of money.
AirframeAS From United States, joined Feb 2004, 8631 posts, RR: 25 Reply 13, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 14080 times:
Quoting Longhornmaniac (Reply 3): What about F makes it self-explanatory to ban a 14 year old (plenty of whom are perfectly well behaved) from sitting up there?
That is the whole point of it: the behavior. You want to sit there? Then behave accordingly.
Quoting Longhornmaniac (Reply 3): Surely you're not suggesting that an adult is more qualified as a person to sit up there, just because of their age.
Behavior is what I was getting at. People pay for a FC seat EXPECTING peace and quiet, not having to listen to some 2-3 year old screaming. Those people PAID for that seat.
Quoting HAL (Reply 4): Should we screen only for good looking people to sit there?
No, I never said that. Again, behavior prevails.
Quoting HAL (Reply 4): creen out loud snorers? Make sure their i-pod headphones don't leak out that obnoxious rap music? Do you expect a 14 year-old will yell and make life miserable for you too? What's so magic about 15?
Luv2cattlecall From United States, joined Sep 2007, 1303 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 14048 times:
Quoting Piskoto (Reply 5): I am screaming too but I am not 2, just 17.
When we travel F class, we are usually a gang of 5-6 people.
Occupying the half First class cabin, we never stop talking and laughing making the rest of F pax to regret paying a F ticket!
I enjoy the whole situation, i.e. being noisy, but at the end of the flight the rest F occupants want tot kill us!
So basically...you're 100% aware that you're pissing off everyone around you, and you not only continue to do so, but you
OPNLguy From United States, joined Jun 1999, 13085 posts, RR: 83 Reply 15, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 14032 times:
I can't recall if it was Jay Leno (or someone else) who recently said this, but the comment was that the airline industry could quickly return to profitability if they'd just start charging $100 for every screaming baby/toddler onboard...
He could be right...
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
UAopsMGR From Croatia (Hrvatska), joined Mar 2005, 144 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 14010 times:
Quoting Eskzoo (Reply 10): Also some legal eagle on the forum could probably tell you that both EU law and probably some UN declaration that have something to say on "ageism".
Airlines also reserve the right to refuse transport at their discretion.
Quoting Piskoto (Reply 11): I just hate those who pay a F class tickets just to get a quiter cabin! It's my trip, I want to enjoy my self, have fun on board and live up every moment! If I wanted some sleep I would JUST STAY HOME, where the bed is an 180^ one and much more comfortable!
You have A LOT of growing up to do my friend.
[Edited 2008-06-16 16:21:33]
Kids, you tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try.- Homer Simpson
Luv2cattlecall From United States, joined Sep 2007, 1303 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 14007 times:
Quoting Piskoto (Reply 11): I just hate those who pay a F class ticket just to get a quiter cabin! It's my trip, I want to enjoy myself, have fun on board and live up every moment! If I wanted some sleep I would JUST STAY HOME, where the bed is an 180^ one and much more comfortable!
I, along with most reasonable people, disagree. It's more like if you want to have fun and live up every moment, JUST GO TO A CLUB....
Answer me this: Is a lie flat bed more conducive to
1) Being a loud obnoxious jerk with all your friends
or
2) Sleeping in peace and quiet?
Perhaps you can now see why people who pay for F would expect some peace and quiet.
While we're at it, the word is "quieter," not "quiter"....but I guess you were too busy being a "rebel" to ever take a spelling test or to learn how to use spell check?
When you have to breaststroke to your connecting flight...it's a crash!
AirCop From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 20, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 14000 times:
Quoting UAopsMGR (Thread starter):
1.) At what point does an airline have a responsibility to intercede on behalf of their high paying customers
Looks like a class divide; my points are 1) how many people actually spend THEIR own money to purchase a first class seat..2) most of the people I see on domestic first class are upgrades anyways.
Quoting HAL (Reply 4): Most definitely not. FC does not mean who can sit there, it means the type of service the airline provides. Should we screen only for good looking people to sit there? Screen out loud snorers? Make sure their i-pod headphones don't leak out that obnoxious rap music? Do you expect a 14 year-old will yell and make life miserable for you too? What's so magic about 15?
Chrisair From United States, joined Sep 2000, 666 posts, RR: 5 Reply 21, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 14002 times:
Quoting HAL (Reply 4): Should we screen only for good looking people to sit there?
Absolutely. Only attractive, unmarried blondes and brunettes aged 18-30 can sit in F.
And to the OP, you're lucky it was only an hour long flight. I've had the pleasure flying IAD-SEA on AS in first. In row 4 were not one, but two toddlers who screamed and kicked the seats the entire 5 hour flight. Of course, mom and dad sat across the aisle from them and enjoyed their "free time" from the crumb crunchers. I've also had the pleasure of flying CVG-PDX and having a dog bark the entire flight. It was one of those annoying small dogs that stayed in its crate and made one heck of a racket the entire flight.
FlyMD From United States, joined Sep 2006, 267 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 13940 times:
Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 1): I'm in favor of this. It should be age 15 or older should be allowed in FC. Any younger should be required to sit in the back. I don't care who paid for the ticket or whatever, FC is self-explanatory.
First class just menas that you paid more for the ticket. What if people in Bz. or steerage don't want to hear the baby crying (which I can guarantee you they do not)?. Do we ban children from flying all together?.
And as a parent of 3 (the youngest of whom is 5), if I pay for 5 FC tickets then we can all fly in FC. I have taken my children all over the world (longest leg 28+ hours) and they are quite well behaved (give them some movies and food and they are set). Seting an age limit is ridiculous (especially as old as 15).
Fly the friendly skies of life!. Enjoy every minute.
Ikramerica From United States, joined May 2005, 17686 posts, RR: 57 Reply 25, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 13942 times:
Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 1): I'm in favor of this. It should be age 15 or older should be allowed in FC. Any younger should be required to sit in the back. I don't care who paid for the ticket or whatever, FC is self-explanatory.
That's silly. 15 year olds are not any better or worse behaved than 13 year olds or 11 year olds. If raised badly, anyone will behave badly, even at 25.
I think there should be no lap children in F. Even infants should be required to have a seat with car seat installed. I could see a 2 years or older rule, but that's about it, but frankly, I think as long as everyone pays for a seat, they should be able to sit wherever they want.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
26 Longhornmaniac: Ok, Your right, it is your trip, enjoy it, live it up, have fun. Just remember that it is other people's trips, too, and they have every right to enj
27 Chrisair: I'd borrow the jumpseat for the flight.
28 Henkybaby: For a more serious reply: I do believe that I pay a very large amount of hard earned money to travel so that I can work and sleep on the plane. It is
29 CosmicCruiser: Just to add my 2 cents on this I've been on both sides. No one likes a screaming child including the parent but you must realize that as it is annoyin
30 Piskoto: Sorry , English is not my first language! I am also messing it up with Deutsch and Greek. This is a forum. Aren't we allowed to express our views?
31 AirframeAS: I hope karma comes to haunt you one of these days on a commercial flight, seriously! Listen to what Longhorn said in reply 26. Alright, fine. Elimina
32 Redcenterflyer: I have travelled a lot with children in international business, and domestic first, and lots in economy. I thank my lucky stars that my children were
33 Koruman: My 4 and 6 year old children are the highest level elite frequent flyers with our airline. We buy Business class international and First Class domesti
34 Alaska737: When I was growing up I would fly first class about half the time becasue my dad is an MVP Gold for AS, I was fine, and never screamed or kicked. But
35 HAL: Obviously, I was using a little bit of exaggeration to make a point. There is however a huge difference between behaviors your can control, like Pisk
36 Alaska737: Hey if I fly over 40,000 actual miles a year then I think the airline can at least give me a nice seat when first isnt full. Its good costomer servic
37 Panova98: A screaming kid/child is no less annoying in economy as in first or business. Yet, I've always thought, someone in first or business, of all places, s
38 XJETFlyer: I say no one under 16 in my opinion. I pay good money to sit in F-Class and i'm truly tired of all the unruly kids. I can handle the occasional crying
39 Longhornmaniac: Couldn't agree more, Martin. I would be perfectly fine with airlines reserving the right to remove people from the cabin, space provided, for repeate
40 UAopsMGR: First, let me start by saying that I've only used an "elite" upgrade once this year. The rest of my flying I pay full F out of my own pocket. Quite s
41 PC12Fan: Then charter a jet. If there are 5 to 6 of you as you say, the cost of 5 - 6 first class seats would come out really close. Then you can do whatever
42 Superfly: What in the hell was that kind of a comment all about? Americans aren't the only people who get upgrades on a flight. US-based airlines aren't the on
43 Ikramerica: I say noone from Katy, TX. Is that fair? When I was a kid, I flew F all the time with my family. We didn't yell or scream or do anything of that stuf
44 Piskoto: Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 41): Then charter a jet I did not ask for a solution. If don't like such First Class , then DON'T BUY IT ! Those who like it, b
45 Jacobin777: Your not sounding too arrogant. Many share the same opinion as you do. Personally, I could generally "deal" with a screaming kid so a long as a kid i
46 HAL: Sometimes, actions speak louder than words. HAL
48 Meta: I had to endure DEL-AMS with two pairs of screaming twins. One set was in front of me and the other behind me. Even better was that I was in Y and th
49 Analog: The only fair way (IMO) would be hated by FAs: kick out those who make a disruption (swap the guilty party/parties with those in say the last row of
50 AirframeAS: You're right about that, I will give you credit for it as it wouldn't be in the fare rules. But common sense always, always, ALWAYS prevails. Think a
51 Piskoto: Did I say such thing? I just told you that we don't shut up!!
52 AirframeAS: I was giving you and EXAMPLE. You know what examples are......right? Well, learn to. Now is a good time.
53 Jetdeltamsy: When I was a kid and Dad's work was in London, we crossed to the US many times over 12 years. It was always, every single time, Mom and Dad sat in Fir
55 BristolFlyer: First you say that you're being loud... Then you say that you're just being normal... Which is it? Or are you just being a spoilt brat? It seems that
56 Piskoto: I meant sreaming in inverted commas ''
57 MillwallSean: I think we need to diffrentiate between a toddler and a child here. You cannot talk and explain things to a three months old baby. With a 5 year old i
58 Bartonsayswhat: Get a pair of these. http://www.vicfirth.com/product/gifs/sticks/SIH1.html . 24dB noise reduction. They are for musicians practicing so they dont hav
59 Eskzoo: They are still bound by the UDHR though for all intents and purposes and a bunch of other non-discrimination statutes. I work in a business that invo
60 Crewchief: Isn't public transportation wonderful...it's meant for the public, and babies are a part of the public. More to the point, isn't banning someone from
62 UAopsMGR: Maybe so, however, the flying public has the right to travel free from disruptive behavior which is why airlines are legally authorized to deny board
63 Mir: A more private and refined atmosphere can be part of the service. Expensive restaurants sometimes bar children from eating there even with their pare
64 Eskzoo: The reality is that if a pax is not behaving to the level that the flight crew is concerned for the flight moving the pax into coach generally won't r
65 ExFATboy: To me, that's not just inconvenience or rudeness, under some circumstances that becomes assault. I saw a lady once with severe lower back pain almost
66 Luv2cattlecall: I think you misspelled "douche" Well...in coach, you aren't really entitled to those 2 empty seats being next to you... I travel in F, J and in Y. Wh
67 CALRAMPER: I know that as a CO employee that CO policy is that children under can not sit in a premium cabin at all as non-revs and can only fly unaccompanied i
68 DocLightning: 15 is a bit old, dontcha think? An 8yo can be expected to keep quiet. I think that's a reasonable age. But certainly lap children should not be permi
69 AR385: I guess valium too. So, your suggestion is to induce a substance stupor on a baby/toddler so it can be quiet? On the subject at hand, I have 2 storie
70 Chinook747: I cannot believe this is even a discussion being allowed. Paying passengers are entitled to be booked in the cabin they have purchased and if this pa
71 TSS: Liquor laws might be your friend. On a flight where liquor is served throughout the cabin, one might say the entire aircraft could be considered as a
72 COFreqFlyer: Unfortunately we had a screaming lap-sitter on 1786 this morning AUS-IAH. Longest 42min flight I've been on yet. Several pax even asked the mom
73 Connector4you: Agree. I think airlines should think seriously about addressing passenger discomfort issues by introducing soundproof private cabins in first and bus
74 Kent350787: +1 here - As long as the parents are being fair to other passengers by minimising disturbance by their kids, they have every right to pay their money
75 Jacobin777: I realised this the hard way unfortunately. Last year, I was flying SJC-ORD and the parents behind me had their kid sit right behind me. He kept on k
76 Tdscanuck: This is true, but yelling isn't disruptive in the way that law is intended to address. It's annoying. Occasionally really really annoying. But it doe
77 Dazed767: Don't worry, we'll see him on an episode of 'airline' one day getting kicked off a flight
78 IAirAllie: Certainly. You expressed your's it made you look like a jackass and thus several people were prompted to express their views of your behavior. It goe
79 Analog: Neither does really foul body odor, yet [I hope] airlines will deny carriage for people with that problem. Paying passengers are responsible for thei
80 IAirAllie: Not true. I worked a flight once where a 3+ year old about 3 rows from the front of the aircraft SCREAMED from the moment his seatbelt was fastened f
81 Jacobin777: That's "noise pollution" as well as purposefully and maliciously disturbing others. Something should have been done, possibly removing her from the f
82 Warszawa: There comes a certain etiquette that must be followed if you're going to fly F. It's just that simple. Age limit wise? Hard to say. I've seen some we
83 JCS17: It all comes down to having courtesy for your fellow passengers. If you are flying in a premium cabin, chances are you have done so before, and notice
84 Kent350787: Now, I'm only a new member, but I can't find in the forum rules whether it is 3 weeks or 3 months from the last "should kids be allowed in F class?" t
85 Baron95: Every now and then the same thing (with minor variations) gets posted. I can't believe people still fell "special and entitled" just because they are
86 Nate1879: This past Thursday, I had the unpleasant experience of having a screaming child sit across the aisle from me on a US flight from LAS-DCA...red-eye to
87 Piaflyer: i do not take this in favor, you can have an 8 year old with a much better maturity level than a rude indecent 17 year old
88 Ssides: You're kidding, right? Most people who get upgraded have already paid a full coach fare, which in most cases is just slightly less -- and sometimes e
89 Baron95: Domestic first class is pretty much there for elite flyer upgrade benefit. As Exec Platinum on AA (100K miles+/year) I get upgraded 8 or 9 out of 10 f
90 Ssides: Absolutely. People often ask me why I fly AA more than WN, and that is generally my answer -- I have the opportunity to be upgraded, and to redeem mi
92 Henkybaby: It was KLM as I said. And your reply gives some concern your kid might indeed behave that way... I paid for this so I can annoy the heck out of every
93 Ikramerica: Does not apply. An aircraft is not a nightclub. By your logic, all places in the USA that serve alcohol should be 21 or older. This is because it's c
94 IAirAllie: We were already landing at the point when this started.You can't remove someone from the flight unless you are at the gate. I'm not going to break st
95 Henkybaby: I doubt any. I thinks it is a poser who's just janking your chains. He is from Cyprus and not too many airlines flying F out of there and besides
96 Piskoto: You will doubt for a long. What's your problem? Even If I tell you, what is going to change?[Edited 2008-06-17 00:30:02]
97 Henkybaby: I do not even come remotely close to understanding what you are trying to say. But I choose to ignore you from now on and I suggest that everybody fo
99 SNA752: Piskoto...not cool bro, not cool at all. Why would you purposely be loud and obnoxious knowing that you are probably frustrating those around you? I'
100 Silentbob: Absolutely, just expect to get beat up when you have an extremely self-centered and arrogant point of view. Just as you have the right to say whateve
101 Piskoto: I keep on replying because I cannot just accept all these that they are saying... I will try to avoid replying this forum, from hereafter.
102 StasisLAX: Awesome statement, Doc I would think a 6 yr old should be able to be rational enough to handle sitting quietly in F or C without too many issues, pro
103 Piskoto: Thanks for the advice. You are bit late though!
104 Kent350787: Please don't take this the wrong way, but I'd assumed you were, at best, seeking flames and, at worst, a troll, after your first post. Don't give him
105 RussianJet: The most selfish view I have ever had the misfortune to read here. People like you just don't get it. You should be quiet and respect other people in
106 Philzh: Naahhh... far too amusing to read; admittedly in a weird and disturbing way. If I had a choice of flying with a crying baby or Mr. loudmouth brat fro
107 LGAUAOK: Philzh I completely agree; Piskoto your comments and everyones response to you have really given me a good laugh today and the photos on your profile
108 Ned Kelly: I think you are being a complete snob here, are you therefore saying that those of us in Y class should be expected to put up with a screaming child t
109 Koruman: No offence, but big deal. In the next six weeks alone my family - including the 4 year old and 6 year old - have purchased more than 40,000 miles of
110 Tonystan: There is a lot to be said for Calpol in situations like this! LOL! I know only too well of problems with having children in First but sadly its a fact
111 UAL777UK: Assuming the FA does step in and asked the mother/father to quieten down the child and that failed. What next, lock them in the toilet? As much as thi
112 PC12Fan: Then you're the problem. "It is better for one to think you are an arrogant ass then to open your mouth and remove all doubt"
113 SASDC8: I totally agree! There should be a 2 year rule in F and no lap children should be allowed. At lest on intercontinental flights on airlines that offer
114 AKE0404AR: You guys have wonderful ideas........why give birth to children anyway! most of the statements are beyond my understanding! Vasco Garcia
115 MillwallSean: Its easy to cry wolf when you haven't had children. Its easy to have lots of strong views about how others should raise their children and believe tha
116 Brilondon: YES!!! Also we should ban all children who are not able to get into bars. They serve free alcohol in F so it should be treated like a bar. No one und
117 Jacobin777: Oh..for some reason I thought you were at the gate..
118 JetJeanes: Heck in the 70,s i was given the credit card at 13 flying first class going to golf tournaments and football games catching up with family members alr
119 Eskzoo: I'm not saying that if I let my kid just sit there and freak out without trying to do anything that I shouldn't be asked to try to do something to ca
120 Kmh1956: I'm not going to go back and quote all the threads I've read, but a great many of you talk about behavior and controlling their children. How many of
121 6YJCX: Twice I have had flight attendants move screaming children from Y to F and right behind me, because they told me the kids were causing a racket and F
122 AustrianZRH: All of those of you moking around that you paid for F and expect peace and quietness and so on and so on. Probably, in Y there are sitting people for
123 Readytotaxi: I posted this in Travel Polls and Prefs a little earlier this week. Might be the answer ! Also an excellent video posted by SkyDrol from Canada at thi
124 DocLightning: So how does this benefit you if you would now be banned from sitting in F? You ever pull that in my presence in the U.S. and I will identify myself a
125 UAopsMGR: You're wrong. You must be willing and ABLE to assist the crew in an emergency. FAA regs prohibit children and anyone incapable of assisting to sit in
126 MillwallSean: No I am not wrong. I might have used the wrong word for exitrow though. So whatever the name of the row is where economy class passengers can stretch
127 Silentbob: In the US, that isn't legal. People with mobility problems and/or infants can prevent others from using the exit, creating an unsafe situation. I'd s
128 Tom in NO: Discriminatory to say the least.....people should know what they're getting into, or what could happen, no matter what they do, or where they go. The
129 UAopsMGR: Use the correct term then. The bulkhead row? There is a difference.
130 Longhornmaniac: Personally, I think that's WAY off the mark. The MAJORITY of the time (read: not always) premium passengers are given upgrades on flights within the
131 Superfly: I am not advocating baring kids from sitting in 1st. class. However, if you don't like the way our airlines are ran then don't fly on them and don't
132 SeaBosDca: I won't tell you to leave kids at home every time, but think carefully about the impact of your actions on others. On a 1- or 2-hour flight it's no b
133 SeaBosDca: And no one in Y is trying to sleep and go to work? Not every working traveler is lucky enough to get to travel in F or J. Consideration for those aro
134 Gigneil: Perhaps not on Gaia or Utiopiar or wherever people live in their heads. The reality is that standards should be enforced in F, because that's what we
135 Panova98: For those of us not doctors, I suppose at one time or another we'd all be hauled off to the hoosegow given what we did to our children, or what our pa
136 FlyguyPBI: Is your statement meant to imply that no resident of this earth , with citizenship outside of the USA has never earned points or used them for an upg
137 GBan: Outstanding post ! Totally agree. Thats why I buy first class tickets for my family for flights>8 hours. My kids enjoyed it with 10 month' and now st
138 Superfly: That is exactly what he said. I am suspicious about the sincerity of his comments about paying for premium seats on flights for him and his family. O
139 DocLightning: Giving a baby alcohol to sedate them is a bit beyond "imperfect parenting." It's abuse and I've seen it nearly kill a child. I've seen parents make a
140 777way: I have experienced crying kid in Y class and it was so annoying, they should not be allowed in F at all.
141 Henkybaby: What a fun discussion this is. The story so far: Annoying people should not be allowed in F. Children and annoying people are however not always the s
142 FlyMD: Can't tell if you are joking or not. Bars don;t serve free alcohol, they make you pay (just like Economy class). So based on you logic, people under
143 Tom in NO: No problem...so long as the others have the word 'accomodating' in their vocabulary Tom at MSY
144 Gigneil: I am all for banning annoying people of any kind. Sadly, it is hard to predict which way people will go scientifically. We do know, however, that it i
145 Acheron: And you are proud of this?. Sad. . Well, if FC wasn't for that, there wouldn't be lie-flat seats, nor suites nor anything like it. Maybe you should g
146 Ikramerica: You summarize the problem with this country in a nutshell. My parents did the splash of kalua in the milk trick. A small amount of alcohol does NOT i
147 Pope: If anything ever illustrated the cliche that money doesn't buy class it's first class air travel in the US. To me its a matter of simple courtesy that
148 DocLightning: Ikramerica, I have read your post. This will be my only response.
149 Henkybaby: So have I and I agree with him. In France it is completely normal to give a child a little port to help it sleep. Maybe doctors find it less damaging
150 Ikramerica: Just to be clear, it is not even illegal in most states to give your own child alcohol at home, and in some states, it's even legal to permit your kid
151 Longhornmaniac: As interesting as this thread has been, it's all completely moot because no airline is going to take revenue out if their own pockets. Cheers, Cameron
152 XJETFlyer: You and I both. But it just seems parents are very weak these days. The kids rule them and control them. I'm tired of the B.S. in F-class on some fli
153 IAirAllie: You mean the bulkhead row and there is a HUGE difference. The exit row has criteria including age and ability restirictions set by the FAA. I dislike
154 Xtoler: This subject seems to come up every couple of months and always gets heated! How fun. I have not one but two toddlers. They've now flown numerous time
155 Henkybaby: That's all I am asking. Very well written post and thank you for putting the effort in. Agree with you on all counts.
156 Jacobin777: When I was young, we used to wear pants shirts, shoes..not dressed up like a smelly slob as many people do. Also, people are so rude, they will put t
157 Qantasguy: I fly often, and dread the whole child thing each time I go to the airport. In the check-in line I hear an unruly child and just pray they're not on m
158 Goomba: Ah - this topic repeats itself again.... I love this topic. Absolutely, positively no kids under the age 13 should be allowed in F Class. We F Class f
159 Xtoler: That's one drawback of being an F/A and having to clean the cabin after each flight. I don't know how many dirty diapers I've found in a seat pocket,
160 N68TLCaptain: It should, but parents should just have the common sense to know that if there kid is going to be a problem, then sit in coach. I disagree with the a
161 Bartonsayswhat: Being a physically fit person, and am familiar with the overwing exit doors, i wouldn't be happy giving up my seat for an elderly person with mobilit
162 Gigneil: I fully concur. Mobility restricted seniors have NO BUSINESS in the exit row. NS
163 Xtoler: Right on! But I still think ADD/ADHD is still overdiagnosed, parents just don't pay attention to their kids. If I didn't have kids I'd still be flyin
164 AirframeAS: I agree with your post, the best post Ive seen on this thread. Thanks for the insights, even though I am not a parent. Welcome to my RR list, ma'am!
165 Xtoler: By our FAR's the only pax allowed to sit in the exit row are anyone over 12, can understand directions in case of an emergency and understand the lan
166 EYFlyer88: If I paid for a first class ticket and dealt with that.. NO WAY.
167 Elite: Well in some places it is illegal to hit your child and some children actually call the police if they are hit by their parents... a really different
168 Airbus767: Yeah an age requirement is most definitely not the best, or most effective, idea because as you've seen anyone like Piskoto would not be affected by a
169 767Lover: If the airlines stop charging what amounts to the cost of a new economy car for one first class ticket, perhaps the kidless passengers will be more fl
170 Jacobin777: I bring it up because I remember smelling one not too long ago. Maybe its the bad stench which has left a bad memory of it.
171 Jhooper: I'd say no "infant in arms" in FC. If the parent insists, make them buy an unrestricted F class ticket for their infant. Beyond that, no one (regardle
172 IAirAllie: The one drawback to doing military charters. Love my mil pax but the chew has gotta go ugh. Not a flight goes by where I don't get one pax handing me
173 Jhooper: Yea, no kidding. I was really annoyed one time when I was flying (on duty-military) in United Economy Plus and this lady asked me if she could trade
174 Flymad: Might be able to buy a FC ticket, but proves you can't buy class!
176 Bongodog1964: An idea I have thought of myself, and fully agree with Legally this manouevre appears to be very suspect, in addition why should the passengers in co
177 Henkybaby: Yes, but a full business class will pay for the whole plane (on long intercontinental flights). A full Y class with no C or F will lose money. Wiser
178 Mirrodie: How old was that passenger what decided to defecate on the food cart? I know this is a late response, but certainly we are talking around people's me
179 IAirAllie: This is absolutely incorrect. Officially US airlines only upgrade for status, if coach is full, with payment (miles, upgrade cert., or money), and so
180 Longhornmaniac: This is the only real solution to the "problem," which really isn't a problem. It is a fact of life, we were all kids once (some of us still are, in
181 Tom in NO: I guess the fact that perhaps, just perhaps, those who have kids under age 13, who are also flying in first class, might have either upgraded or paid
182 IAirAllie: Most people can understand that. The woman at least was trying. It's the parents who totally tune out their kids while everyone else is listening. Th
183 Rwy04LGA: Returning from BOM to JFK on N702DN last week, there was a kid at the first bulkhead seat in coach that annoyed EVERYONE in BE. There's nothing that c
184 Brilondon: Traveling in First class has very little to do with how much you make. It is the choices that you make determine your lot in life, not your income.
185 Baron95: Mostly correct, but not totally. US airlines (and many other airlines around the world also) have corporate deals (typically with large multinational
186 SeaBosDca: Mm hmm. Someone making an average salary can afford $20,000 round-trip tickets. Very true, at least for those fortunate enough to be in a si
187 Analog: You know what... any airline can (or should be allowed to) set age requirements for F class. If this is what people want, the free market will provide
188 IAirAllie: Yes that too. I left that out. My basic point is that even US airlines do not willy nilly upgrade random Mr. Passenger just because there is space. T
189 Rwy04LGA: Aerofan for President! And NRSA DL employees. Duct tape.
190 Aerofan: Quoting SeaBosDCA Have you ever had a baby, or even a baby sibling? Do you have a magic formula for preventing a baby from crying? When people really
191 Smeg: I am sorry, and will probably get flamed for this, but why can't I flip this argument around. I and many others choose not to have children. Why ther
192 Elite: That's pretty annoying. But it is sometimes hard to reject it... as they would keep asking and asking and if you still refuse you would have to sit n
193 AirframeAS: Goes to show you don't know much about how things work here in the U.S.
194 Kent350787: Having had my previous post deleted for "low value", let me try again. The pro kids and anti kids seem never likely to agree. I'm firmly on the pro (p
195 Eskzoo: So here is the quick post trip following our YYZ - PRG on OK 102 yesterday. Our kid was fantastic, he's 3 months old. My wife boarded before me and ap
196 IAirAllie: The FAA differs from most other regulatory agencies on the secondary belt. I assume you are refering to the device that resembles a seatbelt extentio
197 Bongodog1964: So my 5 year old daughter didn't benefit from the lounge access before the flight, the extra space on the plane, the flat bed, the far superior meal,
198 767Lover: It's not really the FAs job to help you keep your child happy, only safe. Don't be defensive. What I meant was that a child is small enough that a re
199 Bongodog1964: I wasn't being "defensive" I was pointing out that many of the benefits of travelling in a higher class are applicable no matter what your age. You m
200 767Lover: Um, ok. None of which says how a five year old benefits from the amenities of first class equally or more than an adult.
201 Bongodog1964: Why do you travel 1st class (or in my case BA Clubworld) ? More space Lounge access better food better surroundings All applicable to any age group P
202 Elite: Sometimes the better surroundings can be taken away because of a crying child...
203 Mirrodie: As a passenger who routine carries earplugs regardless of the cabin of service I'm in, I disagree. You cannot control the situation so you have to le
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From Croatia (Hrvatska), joined Mar 2005, 144 posts, 
From United States, joined Feb 2004, 8631 posts, 
From Argentina, joined Jun 2005, 1868 posts, 
. 
Disagree completely. What about F makes it self-explanatory to ban a 14 year old (plenty of whom are perfectly well behaved) from sitting up there? Surely you're not suggesting that an adult is more qualified as a person to sit up there, just because of their age.
From Cyprus, joined Nov 2006, 127 posts, 
From Canada, joined Jan 2008, 57 posts, 
From , joined Dec 1969, posts, 
Stupid laws!!!.. lol
From Netherlands, joined May 2008, 481 posts, 
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