LH Plans No Route Cuts! — Civil Aviation Forum

Sponsor Message:


My Starred Topics \| Profile \| New Topic \| Forum Index \| Help \| Search

LH Plans No Route Cuts!

JoFMO From Germany, joined Jul 2004, 2211 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2794 times:

I know, good news are bad news. But I came across this news on atwonline and think it is quite remarkable in the current environment.....

Lufthansa plans to maintain network, focus on quality.
Lufthansa Chairman and CEO Wolfgang Mayrhuber remains confident that the current downturn in the industry will not force the German carrier to reduce capacity like European rivals British Airways and Air France KLM.
"We have no plans to cut any routes."

All this airlines in Europe and America with their gasguzzling 777 have to close routes while LH flying efficient 4-holers is going from strength to strength Wink

I am amazed!

22 replies: All unread, jump to last

LGAUAOK From United States of America, joined May 2008, 39 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (5 years 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2760 times:

maintain network..... I want LH to add AMS - JFK! Give Star a link between these two great cities with out the connection in FRA, ORD, IAD, or PHL.

Burkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4268 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (5 years 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2745 times:

German econonmy is robust enough and withstood the US problems up to now.

Simplified, when the arabic countries and Russia swim in money, where do you expect them to spend it?

Joost From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3131 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (5 years 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2620 times:

Quoting JoFMO (Thread starter):
Lufthansa Chairman and CEO Wolfgang Mayrhuber remains confident that the current downturn in the industry will not force the German carrier to reduce capacity like European rivals British Airways and Air France KLM.

Have I missed something? As far as I know, AF-KL have not announced any route cuts. Currently, the forecast is a 20% (long-haul) and 5% (short-haul) growth for 2008-2012. What they have announced is that they have fleet flexibility to (when the economic situation asks for it) to reduce long-haul with 9% and short-haul with 12%. This kind of flexibility is only useful with these varying oil prices.

Quoting Burkhard (Reply 2):
German econonmy is robust enough and withstood the US problems up to now.

That's of course true, but that's no different than other countries in the Euro-Zone, including the countries where AF-KL is based.

JoFMO From Germany, joined Jul 2004, 2211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2522 times:

Quoting Joost (Reply 3):

Have I missed something?

Good question! I also am not aware of any announced cuts from AF/KLM.

ZRH From Switzerland, joined Nov 1999, 5544 posts, RR: 40
Reply 5, posted (5 years 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2451 times:

Quoting LGAUAOK (Reply 1):
maintain network..... I want LH to add AMS - JFK!

Why in the world should LH fly this route? Neither of these airports is a LH hub. This would be uneconomical and wouldn't make any sense.

HB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4416 posts, RR: 75
Reply 6, posted (5 years 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2400 times:

Quoting Joost (Reply 3):
Have I missed something? As far as I know, AF-KL have not announced any route cuts.

KLM has just reduced AMS CTU from the planned 4 weekly to just 2 weekly for the rest of the summer. Official reason is the aftermath of the West China earthquake but the real reason is that the route is not going well. Other than that, I would expect some transatlantic trimmings on top of the usual reductions for the upcoming winter schedule at AF/KL.

AIR MALTA From Malta, joined Sep 2001, 2367 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (5 years 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2400 times:

Quoting JoFMO (Thread starter):
All this airlines in Europe and America with their gasguzzling 777 have to close routes while LH flying efficient 4-holers is going from strength to strength

No one in Europe started cutting routes yet. So i will wait before making such comments.

Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)

Burkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4268 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (5 years 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2398 times:

Quoting Joost (Reply 3):
That's of course true, but that's no different than other countries in the Euro-Zone, including the countries where AF-KL is based.

True. The UK are slightly more affected.

Reducing frequency on routes that don't run well and increasing it on others is normal operation.

BOAC911 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 445 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2366 times:

Quoting ZRH (Reply 5):
Neither of these airports is a LH hub. This would be uneconomical and wouldn't make any sense.

And I suppose DUS-EWR doesn't make sense either. A route doesn't necessarily need to be from or to a hub to be successful. DUS is barely a focus city with most of the feed provided by regional airlines.

LGAUAOK From United States of America, joined May 2008, 39 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (5 years 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2359 times:

Quoting ZRH (Reply 5):
Quoting LGAUAOK (Reply 1):
maintain network..... I want LH to add AMS - JFK!

Why in the world should LH fly this route? Neither of these airports is a LH hub. This would be uneconomical and wouldn't make any sense.

Sorry, I was being selfish. My company has an agreement between UA and Star, so traveling across the pond about once a month I have to always have a connection. I really enjoy flying UA, but I always hope that a direct star option would be presented between AMS / CDG / MAD / MXP / LHR and NYC.

Does any body know the exact # of Star Alliance flights out of AMS on a given day? (I would not be surprised if AMS is a mini Star Hub (Much more the LGA / JFK / EWR.)

JoFMO From Germany, joined Jul 2004, 2211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2349 times:

Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 7):

Quoting JoFMO (Thread starter):
All this airlines in Europe and America with their gasguzzling 777 have to close routes while LH flying efficient 4-holers is going from strength to strength

No one in Europe started cutting routes yet. So i will wait before making such comments.

I must admit that I am not aware of any significant route cuts from any European legacy carrier. But Mr Mayrhuber obviously knows something about BA and AF/KLM that I am not aware of.

My comment was simply an ironic comment (assuming that Mr LH is right) in regards to the too many people here on this board that always like to blame the 343/345/346 in comparing it to the 'biggest invention since sliced bread', the 777....

So it is obviously not a question of what large widebody you fly, but of successful management.

NicoEDDF From Germany, joined Jan 2008, 1054 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (5 years 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2317 times:

Quoting JoFMO (Reply 11):
So it is obviously not a question of what large widebody you fly, but of successful management.

And so it is!

Obsequium amicus, veritas odium parit!

JoFMO From Germany, joined Jul 2004, 2211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (5 years 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2297 times:

Quoting LGAUAOK (Reply 10):
Does any body know the exact # of Star Alliance flights out of AMS on a given day?

For tomorrow the Star timetable says that there are 61 Star flights out of Amsterdam. So obviously 122 altogether.

Joost From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3131 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (5 years 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2260 times:

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 6):
KLM has just reduced AMS CTU from the planned 4 weekly to just 2 weekly for the rest of the summer.

Ah thanks. Well, it provides at least some space in the long haul flight schedule.

Quoting BOAC911 (Reply 9):
And I suppose DUS-EWR doesn't make sense either. A route doesn't necessarily need to be from or to a hub to be successful. DUS is barely a focus city with most of the feed provided by regional airlines.

That's true, but at DUS:
1) LH already has a large market share and more frequent fliers and corporate contracts than at AMS
2) Only competition from LTU

Whereas from AMS
1) They enter the home market of KLM and a main Skyteam market, competing with KL, DL and CO.

Quoting LGAUAOK (Reply 10):
Does any body know the exact # of Star Alliance flights out of AMS on a given day?

From this list, I'd say 59 daily flights. Feel free to add/correct. Between brackets daily freqs (on weekdays)

LH (18)
FRA (7)
MUC (7)
HAM (4)

SK (10)
CPH (4)
ARN (3)
OSL (3)

BD (8)
LHR (8)

LX (5)
ZRH (4)
BSL (1)

TP (5)
LIS (3)
OPO (2)

LO (3)
WAW (3)

TK (3)
IST (3)

JP (2)
LJU (2)

UA (2)
ORD (1)
IAD (1)

SQ (1)
SIN (1)

US (1)
PHL (1)

OU (1)
ZAG (1)

Tavong From Colombia, joined Jul 2001, 834 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (5 years 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2260 times:

Quoting JoFMO (Reply 11):
My comment was simply an ironic comment (assuming that Mr LH is right) in regards to the too many people here on this board that always like to blame the 343/345/346 in comparing it to the 'biggest invention since sliced bread', the 777....

So it is obviously not a question of what large widebody you fly, but of successful management.

That´s correct, buty the first "ironic" comment was unnecesary and made to turn a "posibly great thread" into a "childish A vs B" thread as usuallly happens when anyone does this type of comment.

Otherwise is great to see that LH is doing great and that their high quality standards are also givin those great results.

Gus
SKBO

Colombian coffee, the best...take a cup and you will see how delicious it is.

VV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 6675 posts, RR: 17
Reply 16, posted (5 years 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2239 times:

Quoting JoFMO (Reply 4):
I also am not aware of any announced cuts from AF/KLM.

Are you aware of any announced cuts from BA?

Although BA CEO Willie Walsh has said that capacity will be reduced IF NECESSARY in the face of rising oil prices the only changes announced so far are:

New EDI-LCY-EDI-LCY-NCE-LCY-EDI rotations starting 8 September 2008 requiring the lease of an additional aircraft.

Closure of daily MAN-JFK service from end October 2008.

New LGW-JFK daily service starting end October 2008.

New LGW-OPO service starting end October 2008.

New LGW-VLC service starting end October 2008.

New LCY-JFK twice daily starting 30 March 2009.

To which it is reasonable to add:

New 3 times daily LCY-DUB service started 1 June 2008.

The recently published BA Annual Report (Page 34) also mentions 13 new LGW services but does not identify them (but they presumably include the 3 already announced services detailed above). I am guessing that at least some of these new services will be to long haul leisure destinations and will utilise at least some of the four new 772s to be delivered next spring.

Additionally, of course, BA OpenSkies is about to go into service.

EXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (5 years 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2222 times:

No, the Euro is stong why should they cut? They are paying about 75-80 Euro for a barrel of oil...Their oil prices have 2x since 2000, in the US it is more than 4x. If USD oil prices had doubled from $25 to 50--60 dollars all the legacy airlines would be hugely profitable.

Meta From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 330 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 years 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2015 times:

Quoting Joost (Reply 14):
Whereas from AMS
1) They enter the home market of KLM and a main Skyteam market, competing with KL, DL and CO.

It is also a NW hub.

COEI2007 From Vanuatu, joined Jan 2007, 1912 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (5 years 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 1989 times:

Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 7):
No one in Europe started cutting routes yet. So i will wait before making such comments.

EI has dropped LAX

Mutu From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 506 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 1846 times:

I think the language used by the journalist could actually mean anything!
LH say not cutting routes/network or LH not cutting routes/network/capacity

Similarly BA and AFKL....

As far as I know BA is expanding its network, has not yet announced any route cuts (other than MAN-JFK which is replaced by LGW-JFK) BUT may very well reduce capacity on some routes (CDG and BRU spring to mind) to provide capacity elsewhere.

In fact when I first read Willie's comments about capacity cuts I had intepreted as cutting out the planned growth in capacity such that the flying programme was broadly unchanged despite 4 extra 772's and 4 extra 320's coming on line.

But instibctively german economy is much more export led than the Uk and so LH ought to be in a relatively strong position

Deguoren From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (5 years 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 1815 times:

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 6):
KLM has just reduced AMS CTU from the planned 4 weekly to just 2 weekly for the rest of the summer. Official reason is the aftermath of the West China earthquake but the real reason is that the route is not going well. Other than that, I would expect some transatlantic trimmings on top of the usual reductions for the upcoming winter schedule at AF/KL.

Flights are packed during summer and - in my opinion - can support 4 weekly. (Have been upgraded from 3 weekly in 2007!)
Rather light loads in winter.

Quoting JoFMO (Reply 4):
Good question! I also am not aware of any announced cuts from AF/KLM.

Probably referring to route / capacity / frequency cuts due to new TGV routes.

VV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 6675 posts, RR: 17
Reply 22, posted (5 years 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 1635 times:

Quoting VV701 (Reply 16):
Although BA CEO Willie Walsh has said that capacity will be reduced IF NECESSARY in the face of rising oil prices the only changes announced so far are:

And one I forgot, namely:

New LHR-HYD service starting end October 2008

Top Of Page

Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics: