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It's Now AC's Turn To Cut...  
User currently offlineAuroraLives From Canada, joined Nov 2007, 179 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 8295 times:

http://www.reportonbusiness.com/serv...ircanada0617/BNStory/Business/home

From the Globe and Mail:
"Air Canada will cut up to 2,000 jobs at the end of this year as it sharply reduces capacity to deal with the rising cost of fuel, and is warning there are likely more cutbacks to come."

Oh man I hope YOW - FRA doesn't get hit...

64 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (6 years 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 8256 times:

Central Canada, Ontario and Quebec will get hit the most with AB and BC untouched.

User currently offlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4643 posts, RR: 11
Reply 2, posted (6 years 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 8239 times:

I think the transborder B1900 routes either have to get upgraded or they get dropped. PVD-YYZ was 3x DH8 back in the late 90's now its only 2x B1900. I am a tad concerned for the future of PVD-YYZ


Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32570 posts, RR: 72
Reply 3, posted (6 years 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 8020 times:



Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 2):
I think the transborder B1900 routes either have to get upgraded or they get dropped. PVD-YYZ was 3x DH8 back in the late 90's now its only 2x B1900. I am a tad concerned for the future of PVD-YYZ

Those aren't Air Canada, they are Air Georgian and I believe they are flown at-risk by them (a Tier III codeshare).

While they might be cut, decisions about those routes don't have to do with AC.



a.
User currently offlineEvolv From Canada, joined Jun 2007, 88 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 8006 times:



Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 1):

Exactly, just another example of the shifting economic power in Canada seen today


User currently offlineLongHauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4877 posts, RR: 43
Reply 5, posted (6 years 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 7830 times:



Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 1):
Central Canada, Ontario and Quebec will get hit the most with AB and BC untouched.

Other than the loss of YYZ-FCO and YVR-KIX (in BC) no specific routes have been announced.



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlineYULYMX From Canada, joined May 2006, 977 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (6 years 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 7703 times:



Quoting LongHauler (Reply 5):

YUL-SFO is gone in Winter 3d YUL-LAS also Gone


User currently offlineYegbey01 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1723 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (6 years 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 7702 times:



Quoting AuroraLives (Thread starter):
Oh man I hope YOW - FRA doesn't get hit...

How is this flight performing anyway? It might be a good idea to keep it a summer only route


User currently offlineCB97 From Canada, joined Mar 2008, 90 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 7624 times:

The YOW-FRA seems to be doing well with passengers, going out full or close to full most nights. I'm not sure what the cargo loads are like though...

User currently offlineLongHauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4877 posts, RR: 43
Reply 9, posted (6 years 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 7526 times:



Quoting YULYMX (Reply 6):
YUL-SFO is gone in Winter 3d YUL-LAS also Gone

These and many other routes have been planned to be stopped for the winter season, long before this announcement was made. Internally, it looks more like down-gauging than actual route cancellation.



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5334 posts, RR: 15
Reply 10, posted (6 years 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 7494 times:

SAN-YYZ has already disappeared from the fall schedules; I don't know if previously-planned cuts such as this are part of the "13% reduction" but I would guess probably so.

I do hope they don't pull out of Lindbergh Field completely (by cancelling the daily YVR flight as well.)

bb


User currently offlineYVRLTN From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 2434 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 7127 times:

Any of the fleet going to be parked up apart from the 762's which were supposed to be gone by year end anyway. Are there any more A32S to be returned to lessors this year?


Follow me on twitter for YVR movements @vernonYVR
User currently offlineTangowhisky From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 903 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (6 years 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 6885 times:

Will the 50 seat CRJ's pe chopped? What other equipment could be chopped?


Only the paranoid survive
User currently offline9252fly From Canada, joined Sep 2005, 1386 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 6693 times:

AC is withdrawing service from an airport close to YYZ. Sorry no further details,but I'm sure it will be on the newswire soon enough!

User currently offlineChrisA330 From Canada, joined Oct 1999, 630 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 years 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 6677 times:



Quoting 9252fly (Reply 13):
AC is withdrawing service from an airport close to YYZ. Sorry no further details,but I'm sure it will be on the newswire soon enough

They are cutting YHM.


User currently offline9252fly From Canada, joined Sep 2005, 1386 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 years 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 6611 times:



Quoting ChrisA330 (Reply 14):
They are cutting YHM.

Could this be an opportunity for Porter to utilize a few of their upcoming deliveries of DH4 to pick up the routes to YOW and YUL. Considering that the already serve those two cities from YTZ and have developed a presence and market in them,it could be a simple matter of routing and cycling the aircraft to YHM. With the softening in the trans-border market,it could be something for them to contemplate.


User currently offlineLongHauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4877 posts, RR: 43
Reply 16, posted (6 years 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 6478 times:



Quoting ChrisA330 (Reply 14):
They are cutting YHM.



Quoting 9252fly (Reply 15):
Could this be an opportunity for Porter

Jazz / Air Canada only flew to YOW and YUL from YHM. CRJs to YUL and DHC-8s to YOW. I am guessing the market between these cities is a lot softer than people think, as Jazz is now the fourth airline to try this market and leave.



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offline9252fly From Canada, joined Sep 2005, 1386 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 6451 times:



Quoting LongHauler (Reply 16):
I am guessing the market between these cities is a lot softer than people think, as Jazz is now the fourth airline to try this market and leave.

Okay,I can think of three;Canjet,Westjet and now Jazz. What's the fourth?


User currently offlineLongHauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4877 posts, RR: 43
Reply 18, posted (6 years 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 6440 times:



Quoting 9252fly (Reply 17):
What's the fourth?

Nordair ... with B737s, L188s and FH-227s.

(Probably before your time!  Smile )



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlineYVRLTN From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 2434 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (6 years 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 6364 times:

Theres another thread running about AC retiring the A330's.


Follow me on twitter for YVR movements @vernonYVR
User currently offlineBmacleod From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 2230 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (6 years 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 6147 times:

Some places in Atlantic Canada are worried AC might scale back there as well....

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/nova-scotia.../2008/06/18/aircanada-layoffs.html



The engine is the heart of an airplane, but the pilot is its soul.
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16239 posts, RR: 56
Reply 21, posted (6 years 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 5930 times:

Despite the AC losses & cuts, Westjet continues to be profitable and grow. Westjet will add 7 73G's in 2008 (5 already delivered) to end the year with 77 NG's, 6 more planned for 2009. This suggests that AC's problems go beyond just fuel costs. Tnis mirrors the US: the legacy carriers are shrinking, while WN continues to grow.

Quoting LongHauler (Reply 16):
Jazz / Air Canada only flew to YOW and YUL from YHM. CRJs to YUL and DHC-8s to YOW. I am guessing the market between these cities is a lot softer than people think, as Jazz is now the fourth airline to try this market and leave.

Perhaps the YHM-YOW/YUL market is best supported by the likes of Bearskin.

Quoting 9252fly (Reply 15):
Could this be an opportunity for Porter to utilize a few of their upcoming deliveries of DH4 to pick up the routes to YOW and YUL. Considering that the already serve those two cities from YTZ and have developed a presence and market in them,it could be a simple matter of routing and cycling the aircraft to YHM. With the softening in the trans-border market,it could be something for them to contemplate.

Porter came to mind for me also. The trans-border market only appears to be softening for AC. Westjet and Porter continue to grow and add capacity. Sounds like a AC problem, not a market issue.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineLongHauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4877 posts, RR: 43
Reply 22, posted (6 years 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 5823 times:



Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 21):
Sounds like a AC problem, not a market issue.

As much as you would love that to be ... a quick look around this website would show that high fuel costs are clearly not solely an AC problem. And, AC is not having "problems", AC is avoiding problems.

Notice that the vast majority of capacity cuts are on routes on which WestJet does not fly. There will only be a 2% reduction of domestic capacity, and that will be done mostly with the retirement of the B767-200 and replacement with narrow body aircraft. One will not likely see any North American routes cut, or any reduction of frequency over last fall/winter.

The trans-border reduction of flying will be accomplished mostly by downsizing aircraft. Again, to maintain routes and frequency. Notice that WestJet and Air Canada do not compete on a lot of trans-border routes. Most of the time Westjet tries to compete with AC on US routes, they get their tail section handed back to them on a silver tray!



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16239 posts, RR: 56
Reply 23, posted (6 years 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 5707 times:



Quoting LongHauler (Reply 22):
a quick look around this website would show that high fuel costs are clearly not solely an AC problem. And, AC is not having "problems", AC is avoiding problems.

It's not just an AC problem, it's a legacy carrier problem. Of which AC is one. As I mentioned.

Quoting LongHauler (Reply 22):
Notice that the vast majority of capacity cuts are on routes on which WestJet does not fly.

Then this suggests that AC has done a poor planning job of route/market selection (causing the current contraction) while WS has done a good job by avoiding routes/markets prone to losses, and is still able to make $ and expand.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineThreepoint From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 2129 posts, RR: 9
Reply 24, posted (6 years 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 5598 times:



Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 23):
Then this suggests that AC has done a poor planning job of route/market selection (causing the current contraction) while WS has done a good job by avoiding routes/markets prone to losses, and is still able to make $ and expand.

Really? Then how do you explain the WestJet exits and contractions in such markets as Sault Ste Marie, Thompson, Gander, Windsor, Sudbury, San Diego, San Fransisco and La Guardia?



The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
25 LongHauler : He can't. Westjet is simply doing what all carriers do ... matching market to demand and making market errors like all carriers do. No, you said it w
26 Multimark : As Porter is a private company, they do not report all their financials. Therefore neither you nor I have any idea on how they are actually doing. Fo
27 Ktachiya : Well, I don't think its only Westjet. I mean, how about Emirates?
28 Yyz717 : Westjet is not losing money, laying off staff or reducing flying. Hardly a good analogy. It's a legacy carrier problem, which in Canada means an AC p
29 Threepoint : It wasn't an analogy at all, it was a direct rebuttal to your fallacious claim. You said: "WS has done a good job by avoiding routes/markets prone to
30 Viscount724 : AC really hasn't been a traditional "legacy" carrier since their bankruptcy which gave them much more flexible work rules and a much lower cost struc
31 MileHighFlyer : My Dad is an F/O on the AC Embraer and he said that a maximum of 120 pilots will be let go across the board. It depends on... a) If Oil stays high for
32 MattRB : Most of that is speculated to be attrition through retirement. As well, there is speculation that pilots will be facing reduced hours (down to 70-75
33 Yyz717 : WS has always been profitable. With investment grade returns, AC (even post CCAA-AC) has been sporadically profitable (never investment-grade BTW) an
34 MattRB : Would've helped had we hedged properly for the summer. Even moreso for 2009. But, management only bothered to hedge 40% of the fuel for the remainder
35 Viscount724 : By far the most profitable AC passengers however are those in business class, which WS does not offer (by the way,their code is WS, not WJ which is A
36 Post contains links Salomon : The airline reported a net loss in the first quarter of 2005 of $9.6 million, down from $512,000 in net earnings achieved in the same quarter of 2004
37 AmricanShamrok : I hope the YYZ-DUB is all right...
38 Threepoint : No it hasn't. It's got an admirable, yet not unblemished profit record. But how did we shift from WS' overall profitability (never under debate) from
39 Yyz717 : That's an assumption. If business class pax were (more) profitable (than economy), then AC should be MORE profitable than WS. Turns out AC is far LES
40 FLYYUL : Neil, what are you trying to accomplish with this argument? Your comparing apples and oranges, and trying to spin this debate as if WestJet and Air C
41 Yyz717 : WS is AC's closest competitor in terms of target market and route network overlap and competition. That makes them directly comparable. They both ope
42 TXKF2010 : Well, Westjet is Alberta based...Maybe somebody bought a lot of stock in Oil Sands a while back. My uncle did and he's doin cartwheels!
43 Avt007 : Yyz17, while you make many good points, your obvious Westjet bias is showing. When AC cuts capacity and destinations, it is a result of terrible mana
44 Robsawatsky : It is if you are trying to understand why one is losing money/the other is profitable and why one is cutting capacity/the other is increasing capacit
45 Threepoint : Domestically, yes. With caveats. When you consider the transborder and international scope, then no, WestJet is not AC's "closest competitor" at all.
46 FLYYUL : Because those with an apparent agenda are trying to pin AC vs WS without looking at the variable that differentiate the two. AC/Jazz has more than 6
47 Yyz717 : It's not indisputable. On the contrary, the world's one-class LCC's are invariably more profitable than the business-class offering legacy carriers.
48 Threepoint : You are a master of the spin, sir. You rebut one point by arguing another. It may work with an unsophisticated audience. Sadly, many of the readers h
49 Pnwtraveler : Play the same old same old tape back again, and again, and again. Rehash and more rehash. I get so tired of this. WestJet keeps AC on its toes on rout
50 YVRLTN : WS dont serve any of these cities and can not do so with 737NG's. Thats why AC need a fleet spanning from the DH1 to 77W. What would you do with the
51 Robsawatsky : I would also say that those with an apparent agenda are trying to avoid any comparison between AC vs WS by claiming they are so different as to impos
52 Viscount724 : You might want to check recent annual reports of LH, AF-KL, QF, SQ and quite a few others.
53 Viscount724 : However AC generates many millions of $$ from business class passengers in North America, revenue that WS doesn't see. Many AC routes probably wouldn
54 Avt007 : Before you get too free and easy with the "ditch the pension" talk Yyz17, remember these are peoples lives you're talking about. Senior citizens that
55 Robsawatsky : As someone has already stated - Canadian laws don't allow existing pensions to simply be dumped or unilateraly altered. It is current employees payin
56 9252fly : Bye,bye POS. Anyone know how long AC served POS,it must have been decades?
57 Viscount724 : They've been serving POS continuously for 60 years. Started sometime in 1948. They also started BDA in 1948. For quite a while both points were serve
58 Trintocan : Sadly, yes indeed POS has been given the axe by AC. It has been served since the '40s, originally by the old Trans Canada Airlines. I remember the goo
59 Joerich : I love how any time there is a thread regarding Air Canada or WestJet it ALWAYS turns into Air Canada vs. WestJet. Very predictable....
60 9252fly : Thanks for the history lesson,indeed sad to see the need to cut routes that have such a colourful past. AC seems to accept the need to make tough bus
61 WestJetYQQ : Jazz dropped YYC-YQQ. They really couldn't compete with WestJet's 3x Daily service with 1 or 2 CRJ-200's per day. In addition the population of the C
62 9252fly : That should allow WS to increase ticket prices and make the route very profitable.
63 WestJetYQQ : As profitable as an airline can be right now anyway. WS is the most profitable airline in North America and on a flight between YYC and YVR they only
64 Viscount724 : They announced a couple of months ago that they're suspending service to KIX (now daily 763 YVR-KIX) effective October 26. Jazz is also dropping YHM
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