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VX To Cut Capacity By 10% (MSNBC)  
User currently offlineSFOnative From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 209 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 7669 times:

According to MSNBC, Virgin America, the low-cost U.S. airline partly owned by Britain's Virgin Group, said on Tuesday it would cut flying capacity about 10 percent in the fourth quarter from previously estimated levels, as it deals with high oil prices.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25209713/

Let the VX bashing begin!

[Edited 2008-06-17 09:56:26]

[Edited 2008-06-17 09:56:57]

38 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLambert747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 7590 times:



Quoting SFOnative (Thread starter):
Let the VX bashing begin!

I will be the first person to say that I am a fan of Virgin America. It was bound to happen. With the cost of fuel soaring, and being a new inexperienced airline, it was only a matter of time. I think however that Virgin America will draw down maybe one Trans-Con, perhaps the new LAS-JFK, or a SFO-JFK frequency. I have however heard from an outside source that Washington DC hasn't been doing as well as JFK in the Trans Con market. A similar fate of Jet Blue who have dropped a few Washington DC Trans-Con markets in the past.

Time will tell. It will be interesting to see if Alaska Airlines ramp up of Virgin America routes it competes head to head on has taken its toll and is part of the reason for the drawback. The next 6 months will be very interesting for all airlines in the US market.


User currently offlineB6FA4ever From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 816 posts, RR: 11
Reply 2, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 7532 times:



Quoting Lambert747 (Reply 1):
A similar fate of Jet Blue who have dropped a few Washington DC Trans-Con markets in the past.

to date, we've only dropped IAD-SMF and IAD-PBI. (both were 1x daily)


User currently offlineSFOnative From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 209 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 7493 times:

No sooner than I posted this article, I read that Air Canada will be cutting 2,000 jobs, and scaling back flights. It is definitely a sign of the times. I am curious to see how the scaling back from projected schedules for VX will break down.

Hopefuly scaling back on exisiting routes to allow ORD to start??? Just my uneducated and hopeful guess.  Smile

I have only flown VX a couple times, and absolutley love them!


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32620 posts, RR: 72
Reply 4, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 7494 times:

The article is a litte misleading with its headline. What Virgin America is doing is slowing down growth from previously estimated levels by ten percent. They will still be adding capacity, just not as much.


a.
User currently offlineBlueShamu330s From UK - England, joined Sep 2001, 2866 posts, RR: 25
Reply 5, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 7372 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 4):
The article is a litte misleading with its headline. What Virgin America is doing is slowing down growth from previously estimated levels by ten percent. They will still be adding capacity, just not as much.

That was how I read it too.

I think a better description would be to say VX's exponential growth is going to be slower than originally anticipated, but there will still be growth.

Shamu



So I drive a 4x4. So what?! Tax the a$$ off me for it...oh, you already have... :-(
User currently offlineLambert747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 7359 times:



Quoting B6FA4ever (Reply 2):
to date, we've only dropped IAD-SMF and IAD-PBI.

I stand corrected, my mistake. I was almost certain that IAD-LAX was planned, and recently halted.

Indeed it was interesting that even though United Airlines came into and out of the Sacramento market they have made the market work. I remember hearing from a friend up in Sacramento that Jet Blue's midnight service just didn't make sense. Although from on operational standpoint, i.e. aircraft utilization, it may have been a good idea. The load factors and yield proved the route to be less than stunning.


User currently offlineAS739X From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6098 posts, RR: 23
Reply 7, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 7280 times:



Quoting Lambert747 (Reply 1):

Alaska will not be ramping up anything

ASSFO



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineLambert747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 7233 times:



Quoting AS739X (Reply 7):
Alaska will not be ramping up anything

I was not trying in intend that they wer going to, I was refering to the fact that Alaska Airlines has ramped up Seattle flying to and from California in retaliation of Virgin Americas entry to the market.

Here is an article from the LA Times

Source: http://articles.latimes.com/2008/mar/03/business/fi-virginamerica3

"Southwest, United and Alaska airlines, long LAX mainstays, added flights to routes served by Virgin America. And they either matched or lowered fares closer to that offered by the airline"


User currently offlineAS739X From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6098 posts, RR: 23
Reply 9, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 7140 times:

Yes, we have postured our move already. But nothing else will be added. Alaska is done with adding to fight off VX. Anything else will probably be timing changes where feel needed.

ASSFO



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineLambert747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 7118 times:



Quoting AS739X (Reply 9):
Yes, we have postured our move already. But nothing else will be added. Alaska is done with adding to fight off VX. Anything else will probably be timing changes where feel needed

One thing can be said about Alaska Airlines.. Its following and reputation have remained the same for the most part. I would even go as far as to think that in markets that Alaska Airlines serves when compared with the majors Alaska is often the "preferred" airline.


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21476 posts, RR: 60
Reply 11, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 7088 times:

So VX isn't cutting capacity, they are slowing growth, correct?

That's the same sort of slanted reporting we get with government budgets, where slowing growth is called a cut.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineLambert747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 7049 times:



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 11):

That's the same sort of slanted reporting we get with government budgets, where slowing growth is called a cut

Well at least they arent making claims like they are the largest airline in a market, or they will be the number one airline to another continent like other airlines do. Call it what you will hard times are hitting everyone, Virgin America is not less vulnerable than Delta Air Lines or Sun County. Everyone is taking a hit across the board. When they start closing stations, and drastically pulling down flights, then we need to worry.


User currently offlineLACA773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4002 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 6952 times:
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Quoting SFOnative (Reply 3):
Hopefuly scaling back on exisiting routes to allow ORD to start??? Just my uneducated and hopeful guess.

I'm hopeful VX will start SFO/LAX-ORD. It's time someone like, VX break into UA & AA's monopoly.


User currently offlineB6fll From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 6919 times:



Quoting Lambert747 (Reply 1):
A similar fate of Jet Blue who have dropped a few Washington DC Trans-Con markets in the past.

I was wondering how long it would take someone to drag B6 into this thread...Wow on the first reply...LOL. Im sorry to hear about VX cutting capacity. Thats 10% less mood lighting flying around....


User currently offlineLambert747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 6860 times:



Quoting B6fll (Reply 14):
was wondering how long it would take someone to drag B6 into this thread...Wow on the first reply...LOL. Im sorry to hear about VX cutting capacity. Thats 10% less mood lighting flying around....

It is not capacity, it is growth.

So yes the mood lighting will still be flying around..  Wink


User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4880 posts, RR: 25
Reply 16, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 6806 times:
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Quoting Lambert747 (Reply 12):
Virgin America is not less vulnerable than Delta Air Lines or Sun County.

That's not entirely true. While VX and AA or UA or DL or NW all have to purchase and use the same JetA, VX doesn't have the breadth and depth of the large network carriers to cushion additional shocks - such as additional network diversification possibilities (say shifting into some profitable international markets) or even raising fares significantly around the legacies' fortress hubs. VX traffics in some of the most competitive domestic markets possible, and no matter how one tries to sell "mood lighting" and the like, there is very little empirical evidence to suggest that people will shift buying (flying) habits in order to try out whiz-bang gadgetry, at least not in numbers that a carrier like VX would need in order to trump the competition.


User currently offlineLambert747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 6741 times:



Quoting Panamair (Reply 16):
That's not entirely true. While VX and AA or UA or DL or NW all have to purchase and use the same JetA, VX doesn't have the breadth and depth of the large network carriers to cushion additional shocks - such as additional network diversification possibilities (say shifting into some profitable international markets) or even raising fares significantly around the legacies' fortress hubs. VX traffics in some of the most competitive domestic markets possible, and no matter how one tries to sell "mood lighting" and the like, there is very little empirical evidence to suggest that people will shift buying (flying) habits in order to try out whiz-bang gadgetry, at least not in numbers that a carrier like VX would need in order to trump the competition

Panamair,

I fully understand your point of view. What I would draw your attention to is the fact based proof that Virgin America is getting very good reviews from the flying public. You cannot deny that Virgin America is growing an audience. Remember before Virgin America, the media darling was Jet Blue, then for a short while it was Delta Air Lines for their cabin makeovers. Now the torch is passed onto Virgin America. It is not a science, nor can we prove it with statistical data that "creature comforts" draw a person to a product. What I can and will standby is Virgin America has a product unlike many US airlines. Jet Blue was the first of its kind here in the USA, however without a premium cabin, they cannot obtain the revenue that Virgin America can. I have heard from an outside source, that Virgin America is looking to add as many as two more rows of First Class to their fleet.

http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2007/08/virgin-america-.html

http://www.airlinebulletin.com/2006/10/virgin_americas.html

Passenger Reviews, the good and the bad:

http://www.airlinequality.com/Forum/vir-america.htm

http://www.jaunted.com/story/2008/3/...ews:+Virgin+America's+First+Class


User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9295 posts, RR: 14
Reply 18, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 6415 times:



Quoting Lambert747 (Reply 12):
Well at least they arent making claims like they are the largest airline in a market, or they will be the number one airline to another continent like other airlines do. Call it what you will hard times are hitting everyone, Virgin America is not less vulnerable than Delta Air Lines or Sun County. Everyone is taking a hit across the board. When they start closing stations, and drastically pulling down flights, then we need to worry.

JP Morgan says that the 2 least likely carriers to go into BK is WN and Delta.  Wink



yep.
User currently offlineBlueShamu330s From UK - England, joined Sep 2001, 2866 posts, RR: 25
Reply 19, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 6373 times:



Quoting B6fll (Reply 14):
Im sorry to hear about VX cutting capacity. Thats 10% less mood lighting flying around....

Oh dear. Math 101, or "Business Growth Formulae for Dummies."

It means no such thing.

Here it is for you in Blue chips and Kool Aid Schpeak..."VX is growing, just they don't intend growing now as quick or as fast as they was planning."

Got it??

 Yeah sure



So I drive a 4x4. So what?! Tax the a$$ off me for it...oh, you already have... :-(
User currently offlineSFOnative From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 209 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 6237 times:



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 11):
So VX isn't cutting capacity, they are slowing growth, correct?



Quoting Lambert747 (Reply 15):
It is not capacity, it is growth.

This is exactly what I assume is happening. They are "pulling back from previously estimated levels." If the article is accurate, this is the key statement to understand.

Translation= they are not getting smaller, they are just not getting as big as they had hoped anytime soon.  Smile


User currently offlineBlueShamu330s From UK - England, joined Sep 2001, 2866 posts, RR: 25
Reply 21, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 6169 times:



Quoting SFOnative (Reply 20):
Translation= they are not getting smaller, they are just not getting as big as they had hoped anytime soon.

Ding Ding !! I knew you knew it all along !  Wink

The thread was worth it though for the usual (deleted) flamebait!



So I drive a 4x4. So what?! Tax the a$$ off me for it...oh, you already have... :-(
User currently offlineB6fll From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 6107 times:



Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 19):
Oh dear. Math 101, or "Business Growth Formulae for Dummies."

It means no such thing.

Here it is for you in Blue chips and Kool Aid Schpeak..."VX is growing, just they don't intend growing now as quick or as fast as they was planning."

Got it??

Wow you VX groupies are touchy....Soaking up to much of that mood lighting. And thanks but no thanks, VX can keep the Math 101 and "Buisness Growth Fomulae for Dummies"...They will definetly need it more than B6. Now if you will excuse me I need to get back to my Blue chips and kool aid!!!


User currently offlineB6fll From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 6093 times:

I see WN, B6 and AS moving in and taking even more of VX's market share. I dont mean to offend any of the VX groupies out there just my 2 cents!

User currently offlineBlueShamu330s From UK - England, joined Sep 2001, 2866 posts, RR: 25
Reply 24, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 6067 times:

B6fll

Why do you have to repeatedly hijack threads and chuck B6 into a "We're better than you" inane, childish and purile argument?


Whilst it is admirable to cheerlead your favourite, to do it to this extent renders your argument insignificant amongst your peers with more knowledge and maturity.

Your attempts to sidetrack the thread have failed to derail the consensus that the article was misleading in it's content, and that VX is actually continuing to expand, all be it at a reduced rate by 10% against original forecasts.

Is that clear enough?

Shamu....not a groupie, but a knowledgable Virgin  Wink



So I drive a 4x4. So what?! Tax the a$$ off me for it...oh, you already have... :-(
25 BlueShamu330s : So, no source, just your 2 Cents. Keep hold of your 2 cents for now; it'll buy more of your beloved B6 by the hour. Patience is a virtue
26 Boac747 : Why not increase the puny (and usually sold-out) F cabin? They'd most certainly get more revenue.
27 Alphascan : What do you expect from MSNBC? They had one objective journalist who the time to do the necessary homework at NBC News. He is gone now. Godspeed TR.
28 BlueShamu330s : Words, they're just words LOL Watch this space
29 Ikramerica : A question for the ages. At least on the A320s. 8 sold out seats is not enough on a plane of that size. But frankly, the A319 could use them too. The
30 B6fll : No smart guy, no source, its called an opinion...LMAO..Wow Im not saying that Jetblue is better than VX. Thats for the consumer to decide. I reviewed
31 Lambert747 : B6fll, Try to stay on topic and focus on Virgin America, we arent here for a pro-JetBlue rally![Edited 2008-06-17 17:15:06]
32 BigGSFO : How many aircraft is VX taking delivery of this year?
33 LACA773 : [quote=B6fll,reply=30]Im not saying that Jetblue is better than VX. Thats for the consumer to decide. I reviewed this thread and I am not sure where I
34 SFOnative : I had the opportunity to fly B6 from SFO-JFK back in march, and then VX from JFK-SFO on the return. I can say that the IFE for VX is better than on B
35 SJBOEING : B6fll, you're really giving B6 supporters and employees a bad rap on here. Calm down. I'm all for JBLU too, but there are more logical and civil ways
36 B6FA4ever : its finally time i say something...first of all guys, let me apologize for the way b6fll is acting. its seriously embarassing and unprofessional to o
37 Lambert747 : Looks like O'Hare is still moving forward: https://www.virginamerica.apply2jobs.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=mExternal.searchJobs Jobs Available: Station
38 PlanesNTrains : He doesn't in and of himself, but you start to wonder what it's like onboard. Everyone is a representative, but I'm personally looking forward to my
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