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ATC Job Help  
User currently offlineEI A330-200 From Sweden, joined Apr 2001, 409 posts, RR: 4
Posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 2231 times:

All,

I've just been offered an ATC position at the ARTCC in Oakland, Ca in the terminal facility. Unfortunately, I live in Southern California currently, and Northern Ca is a lot more expensive than where I live now. I am considering turning the position down. If I do, does anyone know what the consequences are? Can someone help me with this decision? I'm really excited that they made an offer, but I'm just not sure what to do.

Brian


Long live Aer Lingus, the Flying Shamrock!
22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineBoston92 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 3390 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 2226 times:

Oakland ARTCC would pay you 33% locality as opposed to only 25% in Socal. Just something to think about.


"Why does a slight tax increase cost you $200 and a substantial tax cut save you 30 cents?"
User currently offlineEI A330-200 From Sweden, joined Apr 2001, 409 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 2218 times:



Quoting Boston92 (Reply 1):
Oakland ARTCC would pay you 33% locality as opposed to only 25% in Socal. Just something to think about.

Boston,

I hadn't realized that. That can make things somewhat easier...Thanks!!

Anyone familiar with the ATC system know exactly what would happen if I turn down this position. Also, though I'm "Well Qualified" according to the ATSAT, I would still have to attend the classes at OKC...Any idea what the schedules are for classes down there?

Brian



Long live Aer Lingus, the Flying Shamrock!
User currently offlineJgarrido From Guam, joined Mar 2007, 339 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2192 times:



Quoting EI A330-200 (Thread starter):
I've just been offered an ATC position at the ARTCC in Oakland, Ca in the terminal facility.

I think you are a little confused. Oakland ARTCC is a center (enroute facility). A terminal facility would be a TRACON or Tower. NCT (northern california tracon) probably handles radar approach duties for Oakland. NCT is in in the Sacramento area where locality is 20.25%. You may want to double check what facility you are being hired for as your base pay will differ as well.

Quoting EI A330-200 (Reply 2):
Anyone familiar with the ATC system know exactly what would happen if I turn down this position. Also, though I'm "Well Qualified" according to the ATSAT, I would still have to attend the classes at OKC...Any idea what the schedules are for classes down there?

I really don't know what kind of consequences there would be if you turned the offer down. I do know from personal experience that the HR people for the western pacific region can be a bit nasty, and I've heard they get even worse when you talk about turning an offer down. That said, you need to make the decision that's best for you in the long run, and not worry about what a pencil pusher bureaucrat is going to think.

As for training. I'd almost guarantee you will go to OKC. If you go to the center you will go to enroute non-radar and d-side school. If you are going to a tracon you need to attend RTF. As for tower they have a class for that too, but I've never been so I don't know what it's called.

They use to start two classes every other week. It seems to me enroute was about 10 weeks and rtf about 4-5 weeks. You have to go to the enroute school before checking into your facility for centers. TRACONs usually work the opposite. Generally though they won't start looking for a class slot to put you in until you've passed the physical, psych test and security clearance. The security clearance being the one that takes the longest to complete.


User currently offlinePlanespotting From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3527 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2158 times:



Quoting EI A330-200 (Reply 2):
Boston,

I hadn't realized that. That can make things somewhat easier...Thanks!!

My buddy has been at OAK center for almost a year now - he does very well on the salary and has no problems affording an apartment, gas, etc...



Do you like movies about gladiators?
User currently offlineBoston92 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 3390 posts, RR: 7
Reply 5, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2149 times:

Oakland ARTCC is a level 11 facility and locality is 32.53%. Once you complete training, your salary would be $93,168.

Northern California TRACON is a level 12 facility and locality is 20.14%. Once you complete training, your salary would be $93,949.

Southern California TRACON is a level 12 facility and locality is 22.00%. Once you complete training, your salary would be $95,404.



"Why does a slight tax increase cost you $200 and a substantial tax cut save you 30 cents?"
User currently offlineEI A330-200 From Sweden, joined Apr 2001, 409 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2149 times:



Quoting Jgarrido (Reply 3):
I think you are a little confused. Oakland ARTCC is a center (enroute facility). A terminal facility would be a TRACON or Tower. NCT (northern california tracon) probably handles radar approach duties for Oakland. NCT is in in the Sacramento area where locality is 20.25%. You may want to double check what facility you are being hired for as your base pay will differ as well.

According to the text of the e-mail I received from the FAA offering me the chance to interview, I was offered a position at the Oakland ARTCC in Fremont, California in the Terminal Facility...Not sure what that means, but I doubt that the FAA would be incorrect when refering to their own facilities. Not trying to start an arguement here, but you've just made me confused based on what the e-mail says.



Long live Aer Lingus, the Flying Shamrock!
User currently offlineBoston92 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 3390 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2133 times:



Quoting EI A330-200 (Reply 6):

Well the good news is the Oakland ARTCC is in Fremont! You may want to re-read the email, or my only interpretation that would make sense would be that they meant your interview was at the Oakland ATCT terminal facility.



"Why does a slight tax increase cost you $200 and a substantial tax cut save you 30 cents?"
User currently offlineAirStatDFW From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 376 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2108 times:

If you turn down your position you may or may not be put back in the pool to be looked at, it is up to the HR people to do that. Once you get to OKC you will have a 5 week basics class, then if your are going to enroute you will go to that school which is about 10 weeks. Once you get your class date I would get an apt or housing asap as it goes quickly as they have classes starting every week now. Terminal one week and enroute the next, plus all the other school that are at the MMAC. Also you will get your COLA pay while you are at school which is nice.

AirStatDFW


User currently offlineXtoler From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 953 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2097 times:

Ya'll get COLA too? Just like being overseas in the military. I'm just kidding. But what I've wondered is how often would you get to move to a different location. I guess it's not like the military where you move every 2 to 4 years. But say, if you do move, can you keep your rate of pay, just lose out on the COLA. Say, if I'm a GS9 step whatever and go from ST. Louis to Ft. Lee, VA and keep the same logistics job, I'd still be a GS9, same step, it's just I'm needed in Ft. Lee more than STL. If I'm lucky to get COLA, I'm sure my COLA would be more on par with the local economy. Does the same deal happen in the FAA, as it is a Federal branch of the govt? Isn't there a base pay? Plus, how easy is it to move around within FAA?


EMB145 F/A, F/E, J41 F/A, F/E, because my wife clipped my wings, armchair captain
User currently offlineSFO777200LR From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2058 times:

Currently, you can decline up to 3 times (although clarify that as the FAA is notorious for making changes unannounced) and be put back into the hiring pool. However there are no specifications on how fast you will receive another offer.

What you should do is call the contact on the letter and say "Before I say yes, is XYZ available?" If they can make some changes great, if not you have a decision to make. Most people make the mistake of checking the 5 states they want and leaving it at that. Instead, write in BIG letters on the bottom of that selection sheet where you want.


User currently offlineF9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 5026 posts, RR: 28
Reply 11, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2027 times:



Quoting EI A330-200 (Thread starter):
All,

I've just been offered an ATC position at the ARTCC in Oakland, Ca in the terminal facility. Unfortunately, I live in Southern California currently, and Northern Ca is a lot more expensive than where I live now. I am considering turning the position down. If I do, does anyone know what the consequences are? Can someone help me with this decision? I'm really excited that they made an offer, but I'm just not sure what to do.

Brian

I would say, go for it. You have so much to gain, and so little to lose. I would never turn down the chance, and I would move where ever it required me to move to get on the right foot. Once you get yourself planted, you can transfer to a place you would prefer to live. Bite the bullet, and give it a whirl! Good luck!

By the way, keep us up to date!!!



I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlineXtoler From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 953 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2016 times:

Just devil's advocate, ask for somewhere like Centennial, CO. Cost of living here is a lot cheaper, and you'll be dealing with a high volume of aircraft.


EMB145 F/A, F/E, J41 F/A, F/E, because my wife clipped my wings, armchair captain
User currently offlineJgarrido From Guam, joined Mar 2007, 339 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1972 times:



Quoting EI A330-200 (Reply 6):
I was offered a position at the Oakland ARTCC in Fremont, California in the Terminal Facility...Not sure what that means, but I doubt that the FAA would be incorrect when refering to their own facilities.

The email you received is from HR. Generally speaking HR knowing nothing about ATC. I could list examples but it's really not surprising that they would incorrectly reference their own facilities.

Quoting AirStatDFW (Reply 8):
Also you will get your COLA pay while you are at school which is nice.

I think you mean per-diem.

Quoting Xtoler (Reply 12):
Just devil's advocate, ask for somewhere like Centennial, CO. Cost of living here is a lot cheaper, and you'll be dealing with a high volume of aircraft.

If one wants to go that right the best place to go IMO is Houston, TX. The FAA ATC facilities their are between 11 and 12 (the two highest pay levels currently used by the FAA). Cost of living there is dirt cheap compared to pretty much any other major metropolitan area, locality pay is 27.39%, and there is no state income tax.


User currently offlinePanAm330 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2672 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 1964 times:

Ah, you got a Bay Area facility! I envy you so much right now. I'm just over halfway done at ERAU, getting my Bachelor's in ATC, and I've been shooting for any Bay Area facility (I'd prefer SFO Tower - hint hint, FAA  Wink). I'm determined to live in or close to San Francisco, and I hope like hell they give me SFO or OAK as a first offer so I don't have to wait. I say take it, man! You've got the chance to live in one of the best areas in the US. Good luck and keep us all updated!  Smile

User currently offlineEI A330-200 From Sweden, joined Apr 2001, 409 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 1942 times:

All,

I've responded to the e-mail letting them know that I will be interviewing for the position. In the e-mail, they talked about a sort of Pre-Employment Processing Center that they would be setting up around the country. Unfortunately, none are even near the LA area, and because I'm still on probation with Continental at LAX, I can't request vacation, etc. (been here just under 2 months and love it!). So I asked to be interviewed close to my home...good move or bad move? I know that if I went to one of the screening centers, I would have all the screening done in one shot and would know if I got the job right away. But again, travel would be a little bit of a hardship. What do y'all think?

Brian



Long live Aer Lingus, the Flying Shamrock!
User currently offlineAirStatDFW From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 376 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 1923 times:



Quoting Jgarrido (Reply 13):
I think you mean per-diem.

I'm sorry, you get per-diem of 79.20 a day and what ever locality for the area you are going to be working at is added on to your base pay while you are at the academy.

Quoting EI A330-200 (Reply 15):
I've responded to the e-mail letting them know that I will be interviewing for the position. In the e-mail, they talked about a sort of Pre-Employment Processing Center that they would be setting up around the country.



Quoting EI A330-200 (Reply 15):
But again, travel would be a little bit of a hardship. What do y'all think?

When I did my interview they didn't have PEPC set up yet. They started it the next month. I was called and given my firm offer about a month after my interview.

On a side note, I received my tentative offer letter for one facility and asked if anything else was open and my firm offer was for a larger facility with a lot more traffic.


User currently offlineDinker225 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 1062 posts, RR: 18
Reply 17, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 1856 times:



Quoting AirStatDFW (Reply 16):
I'm sorry, you get per-diem of 79.20 a day and what ever locality for the area you are going to be working at is added on to your base pay while you are at the academy.

Unless they've changed it you get the locality pay for OKC area while at the academy in OKC. Thats how it was just 7 months ago and as far as I know right now. You get your locality once you get to your facility only. I can't remember what OKC locality was.

Dinker



Two rules in aviation, don't hit anything and don't run out of gas, cause if you run out of gas yer gonna hit something.
User currently offlineEI A330-200 From Sweden, joined Apr 2001, 409 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 1835 times:



Quoting AirStatDFW (Reply 8):
Once you get your class date I would get an apt or housing asap as it goes quickly as they have classes starting every week now.

So if I read this correctly, there is no housing provided by the school, etc.? Just curious



Long live Aer Lingus, the Flying Shamrock!
User currently offlineJgarrido From Guam, joined Mar 2007, 339 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 1789 times:



Quoting EI A330-200 (Reply 15):
I asked to be interviewed close to my home...good move or bad move?

By the sound of this Pre-Employment Processing Center things have changed greatly. Even the way things sound like they work now it could still be several months from when you go to the center and find out you have a job before they get you a class date and you started getting payed by the FAA. To me it would be unreasonable for them to expect you to leave your current employment just to interview for a new job.

Quoting EI A330-200 (Reply 18):
So if I read this correctly, there is no housing provided by the school, etc.? Just curious

Correct. But there are several places that are setup specifically for FAA students. I think when I went though enroute I think the place I was staying at had a studio apartment for $10/day. It wasn't fancy but it was clean. Several places even offer a rental car for an additional $1/day. Also as it was mentioned you will get $79 a day in addition to your salary while you are there.


User currently offlineGQ From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 83 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 1753 times:



Quoting EI A330-200 (Reply 15):
So I asked to be interviewed close to my home...good move or bad move?

It depends on how long you are willing to wait to get to the academy. The PEPC is designed to speed you through part of the process (the interview, background check, medical) in one day as opposed to 1-2 months (or longer) going the non-PEPC route...congrats btw I'm nervously waiting for my e-mail (fingers crossed)



Traveling somewhere, could be anywhere...there's a strangeness in the air but I don't care
User currently offlineAirStatDFW From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 376 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 1751 times:



Quoting Dinker225 (Reply 17):
Unless they've changed it you get the locality pay for OKC area while at the academy in OKC. Thats how it was just 7 months ago and as far as I know right now. You get your locality once you get to your facility only. I can't remember what OKC locality was.

They have changed this recently. You will get your locality pay for where ever you are going, something to do with that you are on TDY orders from your facility.

Quoting EI A330-200 (Reply 18):
So if I read this correctly, there is no housing provided by the school, etc.? Just curious

You are correct, you have to find housing there are many to chose from. Here is the link of some in the area.
http://www.academy.faa.gov/ama100/housing.asp

If you have any other questions send me an IM.


User currently offlineMTSUATC From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 120 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1653 times:

I just finished PEPC yesterday in LA. I know you can turn down offers up to three times. I say go for it and once you complete training you can transfer out. The pay at OKC its a little over 19,000 a year plus 80 bucks a day per-diem. If you were hired OTS you will need to go to a ATC basics class then enroute training, I'm not sure how long it is. I'm going to a tower and only have to do cab training. My tenative class dates are Aug 12th-Oct 1st. If anyone is looking for a roommate send me a pm. And congrats on the position.

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