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United Pilot Too Upset To Fly..  
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (6 years 6 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 17464 times:

I have to think that there's something more to this than is in the story....

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/fligh...008-06-20-upset-united-pilot_N.htm

92 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (6 years 6 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 17427 times:

hard to know the details but it's sad that someone who doesn't want to fight with the company is actually harassed to the point that he isn't able to do his job.

Somehow I think there will be alot more interpersonal conflicts at UA before it's all said and done.


User currently offlineLowrider From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 3220 posts, RR: 10
Reply 2, posted (6 years 6 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 17266 times:

If you cannot do the job safely, you shouldn't go. Be it illness, fatigue, or distress. Only the individual can determine if they can summon the required level of focus and attention to deal with a worst case scenario that day. Of course if you have many of these incidents, the company may suggest you might be better suited to a different line of work and assist you in transitioning. I called in sick the morning before a trip after an unexpected death in my immediate family because I didn't think I could safely operate for a couple of days. The airline, to its credit, didn't give me any trouble over it.


Proud OOTSK member
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21583 posts, RR: 59
Reply 3, posted (6 years 6 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 17232 times:



Quoting Lowrider (Reply 2):
If you cannot do the job safely, you shouldn't go. Be it illness, fatigue, or distress.

Agree. I've been so upset after a conversation before that I know I wouldn't be safe to drive a car, let alone fly a plane with 150 people at risk.

Good for him.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineShyFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (6 years 6 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 17134 times:



Quoting Lowrider (Reply 2):
If you cannot do the job safely, you shouldn't go. Be it illness, fatigue, or distress.

While I don't fly professionally (yet), I've had to ground myself simply because I felt unsafe. As much as I love flying, I'm not about to take an aircraft up unless I feel 100%.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 3):
Good for him.

 checkmark  Lets just hope he's able to settle the dispute with his coworkers.


User currently offlineRandyWaldron From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 324 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (6 years 6 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 17009 times:

Kudos to this pilot for not flying when he deemed himself to be unfit to fly. I think that we shall see more of this as the US airline industry continues its downward spiral due to mismanagement and record fuel prices.


"Flaps 20, gear down, landing checklist please..."
User currently offlineLincoln From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3887 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (6 years 6 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 16926 times:



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 1):
Somehow I think there will be alot more interpersonal conflicts at UA before it's all said and done.

I was in LAS on Thursday looking for Advil (I had 3 hours to kill and a nasty headache) and I passed a United pilot who was screaming himself about Tillon this and Tillon that -- thought he was crazy -- turned out he had a Bluetooth headset in the other ear (who knows if he was actually on a phone call, though -- still could be crazy  Wink )

If it is or gets to be anything like the folks at NW (at least in DTW) are twoard Steenland and they start taking it out on customers...



CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
User currently offlineMD88Captain From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1338 posts, RR: 20
Reply 7, posted (6 years 6 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 16873 times:

I believe this pilot had caught some grief from a fellow pilot about wearing his hat. The UAL guys are not wearing their uniform hats in order to show management their solidarity and displeasure over management missteps. Apparently some fellow pilot took it upon himself to harass this guy about wearing his full uniform including the hat. This captain was upset enough to not strap on the jet. Always a gutsy move.

IMO the UAL guys could go naked and their management wouldn't notice or care.

[Edited 2008-06-20 21:02:16]

User currently offlineUSAFDO From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 443 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 6 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 16720 times:

Is this a form of CHAOS (Create Havoc Across the System)?

What if both groups -pilots & F/A's do this (just enough crew to walk off the ACFT to CNL the FLT)?

Could they all legitimately get away with it without punishment?


User currently offlineFXramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 7364 posts, RR: 85
Reply 9, posted (6 years 6 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 16363 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I smell furloughs.  twocents 

User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 6132 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (6 years 6 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 16254 times:



Quoting USAFDO (Reply 9):
Could they all legitimately get away with it without punishment?

Short answer is no, union or no union if another employee at UA harasses another UA employee they can be disciplined or fired (just like at any other company.) If someone alleges harassment and during the ensuing investigation it comes out that they just decided to allege harassment because they were pissed off at management that employee could also be in some hot water.

Even if a strike at UA was declared and AFA was doing CHAOS, harassing another employee would probably still land the person doing the harassment in the unemployment office...



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlinePoint8six From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2008, 94 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 6 months 5 days ago) and read 16145 times:

Hats off (excuse the pun!) to him for his wise decision.

User currently offlineRJ111 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (6 years 6 months 5 days ago) and read 16070 times:

All sounds a bit silly to me, possibly defeatist. But if he genuinely was that upset then it was the right course of action.

[Edited 2008-06-21 00:57:12]

User currently offlineFlipdewaf From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2006, 1578 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 6 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 14988 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Good on him. If he cant concentrate then he shouldnt fly. Rather that than he gives it a bash and has an accident. I have some issues and have had to cancel lessons for my PPL before because I didnt feel up to concentrating 100%, hopefully the passengers were quite understanding in this case.

Fred


User currently offline777fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2524 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (6 years 6 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 14748 times:



Quoting USAFDO (Reply 9):
Is this a form of CHAOS (Create Havoc Across the System)?



Quoting FXramper (Reply 11):
I smell furloughs.

Well, this guy's days are probably numbered anyway seeing as how UA416 is served by a 733/5, according to Flight Aware. Perhaps that had something to do with his preflight phone conversation.

Frankly, if I were a pax on that flight and witnessed a uniformed crew member (front or back of the house) at the gate shouting into a cell phone, I'd have asked to be rebooked. That said, it's incumbant upon employees to ensure that such behavior is not exhibited in plain sight of paying customers. You're more than entitled to be pissed off, but do so professionally.

That leads me to this quote from the article (fair use excerpt):
"In the concourse, on the jetway, wherever. Show solidarity with your fellow pilots, show management our solidarity. Don't wear your hat," it says.

In a statement dated Jan. 15, the union instructed members to adopt the practice because "now is the time to show management that this pilot group is serious about regaining what was stripped from us during bankruptcy."

This is why unions need to go 'F' themselves. Flame me if you want, but this type of Marxist-anarchist mentality that involves fractionalizing one particular group of employees and taking down the whole ship just to make a point is only going to bury UA, at which point EVERYONE will be collecting unemployment.

777fan



DC-8 61/63/71 DC-9-30/50 MD-80/82/83 DC-10-10/30 MD-11 717 721/2 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 741/2/4 752 762/3 777 A306/319/20/33 AT
User currently offlineCOKFlyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 3 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 years 6 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 14725 times:

Pilot did the right thing by opting himself out of flying. Good for him!!

User currently offlineFlyHoss From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 598 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 6 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 13518 times:

Read the last sentence of the article, a $120 fare? Can you take Greyhound or Amtrak for that? What would a car rental and gas cost?


A little bit louder now, a lil bit louder now...
User currently offlineGeorgiaAME From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1000 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (6 years 6 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 13253 times:

As a physician and AME, my hat's off to the guy. He did the right thing. If he had been having a severe hayfever attack, it would have been no different. You ground yourself temporarily. Sorry for the passengers inconvenience, but it is the responsibility of the crew to get you from point A to point B safely.


"Trust, but verify!" An old Russian proverb, quoted often by a modern American hero
User currently offlineWarRI1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 9292 posts, RR: 12
Reply 18, posted (6 years 6 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 13178 times:



Quoting 777fan (Reply 14):
This is why unions need to go 'F' themselves. Flame me if you want, but this type of Marxist-anarchist mentality that involves fractionalizing one particular group of employees and taking down the whole ship just to make a point is only going to bury UA, at which point EVERYONE will be collecting unemployment.

What a simplistic attitude, I suggest that you take a little time to look at both sides of the story. Typical pro-mangagement bull. UA stting aside millions to line their pockets at the expense of everyone else in this economic climate. It shows the arrogance and greed of UA' top management along with many others. I agree with others on this forum, the pilot was wise to not fly, I have been there and done that, when you get over the rage of dealing with a moron, mangement or union, you are not fit to drive a car, operate a machine and most certainly not to fly innocent passengers until you calm down.



It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
User currently offlineMr.BA From Singapore, joined Sep 2000, 3423 posts, RR: 22
Reply 19, posted (6 years 6 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 12420 times:

Would the management do anything to him as a result of this?


Boeing747 万岁!
User currently offlineBahadir From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 1835 posts, RR: 10
Reply 20, posted (6 years 6 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 12283 times:



Quoting USAFDO (Reply 8):
What if both groups -pilots & F/A's do this (just enough crew to walk off the ACFT to CNL the FLT)?

Could they all legitimately get away with it without punishment?

Unfortunately, we cannot do a labor action to create a CHAOS in the airline environment by delaying flights, flying slower, etc. intentionally. On the other hand, there are other things we do like not wearing your hat. We carry a little luggage tag titled UNITY with color codes depending on the way the union feels about our contract negotiations. So far it is green but with no progress in cba negotiations that will change soon..



Earthbound misfit I
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21866 posts, RR: 55
Reply 21, posted (6 years 6 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 11936 times:



Quoting 777fan (Reply 14):
Well, this guy's days are probably numbered anyway seeing as how UA416 is served by a 733/5

Probably not if he's a captain. But he'll likely go back to being an FO on a different type. It's al about seniority numbers, not which aircraft you fly.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlinePhilSquares From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (6 years 6 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 11884 times:



Quoting 777fan (Reply 14):
Well, this guy's days are probably numbered anyway seeing as how UA416 is served by a 733/5, according to Flight Aware. Perhaps that had something to do with his preflight phone conversation.

777fan, your post shows just how little you understand about the role of ALPA and how things really work.

First of all, UAL and all the US airlines need to adopt realistic pricing. Selling your product below cost is a sure recipe for disaster. The worst part is, the company, through their mis-management will turn around and try to extricate more money from the employees and they will use job preservation as their motivation.

Secondly, this pilot was most likely a Captain. His days are not numbered. He will either be bumped to a lower position or if he has the seniority, he can bump up to the 320 if he can hold it and if he wants it.

So, next time you are on your tirade about unions, please remember, it was ALPA that forced the airlines to look as safety. Most if not all the collective bargaining language is the result of management trying to put the pilots in a very bad position.


User currently offlineAAH732UAL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (6 years 6 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 11835 times:

Quote:
$130 million to fund a new incentive plan for executives while the company plans to cut routes and lay off up to 1,600 employees.

Very nice

I find it very hard to see this guy being harassed to the point of breakdown by fellow employees.
The simple thing is, they are in the flight together.

I could see maybe a small comment being made which may have been the straw that broke his back and he went off. He may have just had got his furlough notice the day before and could have just went into a rage. Or like the NW pilot last year in LAS. Who knows.

I think this pilot did the right thing even though some people may think it was for pissy reasons. Some of the dumbest things could set people off with little warning. Glad he was not in the cockpit when he decided he needed to vent IMO.

Quoting 777fan (Reply 14):
This is why unions need to go 'F' themselves.

What a dumb comment based on ignorance. Maybe you need to go "F" yourself. Wow! and the reason I say that is because you take that view from the outside looking in. Get both sides before you make a dumb comment like that  Wink

[Edited 2008-06-21 09:16:04]

User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (6 years 6 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 11598 times:



Quoting AAH732UAL (Reply 23):
I find it very hard to see this guy being harassed to the point of breakdown by fellow employees.
The simple thing is, they are in the flight together.

That's kind of what prompted me to start this thread, namely that all the outside influences (outside, as in outside of one's personal control), don't appear to have precipitated the event, but peer pressure run amuck.

I also don't fault the guy for declining to fly, but for (allegedly) one pilot to upset another to the point of not beng able to fly strikes me as simultaneously being counterproductive, unsafe, and unprofessional, and not necessarily in that order. Like I said earlier, there has to be more to the story here...


25 Tozairport : No furlough notices for pilots have been given as of yet and none are expected until after the summer flying season. That said, the overall stress le
26 IPFreely : Taking off hats in the concourse and berating pilots who don't is the kind of thing you normally see in the hallways of grade schools. The whole incid
27 OPNLguy : Well said...
28 Zone1 : They already do by not turning on Ch. 9.
29 Tozairport : Come fly with me, channel 9 is always on...
30 F9Animal : I think the pilot was very professional to admit that he was not fit to fly. I am sure a majority of the passengers would have fully appreciated his h
31 USAFDO : The "CHAOS" tactic (Create Havoc Across the System) that I have read about in the past seems to try to have enough crew not be present for duty (not s
32 Blackbird1331 : It would be nice to hear from the pilot. Just this week I called in ill because an administrator laid into me over the phone so loud and profane that
33 PGNCS : No. Failing to wear hats causes no operational issues with the schedule in an of itself. Again, you don't understand the seniority system at all. The
34 Post contains links Bahadir : B777, you obviously know more about flying than most of us here.. You also show your ignorance about safety of flight. You may or may not agree with t
35 Post contains images AAH732UAL : Just ask the crew..... they will gladly ask the pilot if he cares Simple no? very nice [Edited 2008-06-21 11:55:43]
36 Dl757md : Actually it's United's responsibility to get you from point A to point B. The crew is but a small part of making that happen. I wonder if you would h
37 Jetjeanes : In this economy and virtually every airline about to fold with high fuel prices and operating cost the airline union and employees need to work togeth
38 Flighty : Once in awhile I find a story of a piliot showing true class. The fact is this pilot wasn't trying to make a scene. He made the right call no matter h
39 Flyf15 : " target=_blank>http://falcon.holisticrd.com/Portals...E.pdf This is one of the most important acronyms in all of aviation. All pilots, airlines, and
40 PIA777 : I just hope that I have a happy pilot on 7/2 and 7/6, I will be going to ORD from ATL. PIA777
41 ArcrftLvr : It happened with Eastern...
42 Bobnwa : I would bet this Captain is in the 90th percentile of wage earners at UA including management. Exactly!!!!
43 Planefxr : How did this guy show true class? The fact is he apparantly did make a scene in the gate area, that in itself looks bad and does not project a proffe
44 Highflier92660 : You beat me to it. That was a pretty well-documented case back in the days of WHEAL (We Hate Eastern Air Lines.)
45 AAH732UAL : How the hell do you know how it went down? Where you there? He may have been off in a little corner away from everyone and this guy interviewed maybe
46 USAFDO : We only know very few pieces of information about this situation...and definitely not enough to make strong statements as to specifically & exactly wh
47 Hiflyer : The only thing...the only thing.....the only thing.....that not wearing a hat at United has accomplished is proving how bald UA pilots are. period. Th
48 Planefxr : No I was not there, were you? EVERYONE does have a bad day, that is why I said he did the right thing if he felt he was unfit to fly. Have you ever h
49 ExFATboy : And if this sort of thing becomes more common, you'll start to see yet more people stop traveling, and the downward spiral will just continue. I'd ju
50 Planefxr : He should be off in a corner away from everyone, and he should be wearing a hat too. Even pilots are human.....well if that isn't an elitist comment
51 Xtoler : I've flown where our schedules have been so screwed up by different outside sources and as a crew we get broken up and our times get out of whack by t
52 Planefxr : Now that is what TRUE CLASS is, thank you! Absolutely! Again
53 Tranceport : What pains me about this post is that you needed to use a sick day to take care of yourself after experiencing job harrassement. I don't know what th
54 JerseyGuy : $120 oneway for an advance purchase, how much should a restricted ticket cost? $300? $500? Gas for the 545 mile trip from SLC to DEN would cost $85 (
55 Mcdu : If you claim "mentally" unfit to fly. You better be ready to meet the FAA and most likely a whole battery of psychiatric exams to prove you are sane
56 777fan : Nice. Both sides of what? Does it not occur to you that the behavior, attitude and rhetoric (let alone the action) of union 'leaders' is enough to dr
57 AAH732UAL : Well it Glenn is going to play childish games I guess the Union is to.
58 Jetdeltamsy : Whle I was with Eastern, something similar occured. A captain became irate at being held on the ground. He requested permission to return to the gate.
59 Flybyguy : Goes to show you... don't screw around with the airline unions before you get a brick in your window. From what I read in the article... he was probab
60 OPNLguy : And, he didn't, and the fact that he didn't demonstrates that he's really not crazy. If the above sounds familar, it was the main plot element in the
61 SSTsomeday : Well, not having been there and not being part of the investigation, I cannot know what really happened. It is possible that the pilot was posturing a
62 Hiflyer : folks....it was just union on union harassment...no mgt involved until the one being harassed called unfit and sat for one hour and then flew the trip
63 Stratosphere : I agree. If this pilot felt he could not perform he did the right thing by stepping aside..But I have to ask if this was really over wearing that stu
64 Lightsaber : If management harassed their own pilots as the union harassed theirs... Let's just say I understand their desire to unionize. But at that point its a
65 Mcdu : Here is a prime example of the lunacy of trying to blame Tilton for your woes. It is very likely that one or more pilots will face disciplinary actio
66 Tozairport : I guess you would be a better man than me, then. I just hope that on the day you are p-o'd that you are not working on my jet. This isn't about being
67 AAH732UAL : To bad it does not work the same for management
68 Hiflyer : Right...because the harassing pilots did slam the other pilot in a private forum and not on the clock and not impacting the public. Ooops....thats ri
69 Mcdu : No, I can follow the hat switch no matter how much a I disagree with our MEC's tactics. However, I am not the hat police either. That is the job of t
70 Tozairport : Sorry, should have put a "TIC" next to that sentence. I am certainly not the hat police either but I do understand the MEC's idea here. Totally agree
71 Post contains links USAFDO : Not sure about posting this, but it is on a UA web site. It must be getting very tense between the employees & management at UA. Has anyone seen this?
72 Post contains links AAH732UAL : Where have you been since forever lol! Its really hit the fan since Tilton came in in 2002 though. Yes it is in my profile. From UA AFA website. The
73 Lincoln : Am I halucinating when I remember "The employee owners of United Airlines invite you to come fly the friendly skies" in commercials from my youth?
74 USAFDO : Alot of people don't know about all these different web sites. But after seeing this video, it really shows how disgusted the employees are with manag
75 AAH732UAL : That is understandable. Yes..... the videos are just starting to pop up.... but this has been on going for a long time.
76 IPFreely : UA employees have treated their CEO like a cross between Adolf Hitler, Saddam Hussein, & the Devil for as long as I can remember. They hated Dick Fer
77 Tozairport : Dick Ferris tried to break the union with Scabs. Steven Wolf tried to break the airline into pieces and sell it off. Glenn Tilton? Well he hasn't bee
78 UnitedSuperDC8 : I am sure United management - or just about anybody else for that matter - could care less if they keep their hats off or wear no underwear! I would t
79 Bobnwa : I hope you aren't saying that no manager has ever been disciplined or fired? That would make your statement false then wouldn't it?
80 Mcdu : Bob, You will have to forgive AAH he gets all of his anger from his mother that is a FA. Unable to see the big picture or discuss any subject rationa
81 AAH732UAL : Because they all sucked. Now I like you but you are now making false statements about me. While yes my mom has the same views as me..... I have gathe
82 UnitedSuperDC8 : What type of memories did PanAm have? How are others involved? Standing around the galley ignoring customers, complaining and ignoring the economic c
83 Post contains images AAH732UAL : Does PanAm fly anymore? Wow......... Wow......... At least you said 1 thing smart and at that its pushing the intelligence level.[Edited 2008-06-23 1
84 AAH732UAL : Finding another job is not that easy. Even more so after over 25 years for a lot of them. A lot of people DON'T despise the job..... they just hate h
85 UnitedSuperDC8 : So why don't they quit, enroll in a decent MBA program and come back and run the airline? It's just those passengers that get in the way.
86 UnitedSuperDC8 : Exactly..Economics and their lack of transferable skills that could earn them the same amount of salary keep them where they are. If they wanted a sa
87 AAH732UAL : Not really...... same skill 4 years ago bought you 60 grand per year..... today same job same hours...... under 35 grand...... I thought the system w
88 UnitedSuperDC8 : Nope economics is what drove airline salaries down. 60 grand per year overvalued the work. The concessions most endured were unfortunate but were rea
89 Mcdu : Market conditions dictate your pay. Longevity should account for benefits, seniority is not an automatic increase. Based on the job skill set and edu
90 AAH732UAL : I read everything you write in full and I have come to the conclusion that you sorta dislike FAs.
91 Mcdu : Quite contrary. I have been happily married to one for many years. She left the company after 9/11 and has enjoyed her new career outside of the airl
92 Post contains images AAH732UAL : Agreed and most FAs including my mom love the job and are happy..... they along w/ many others just like to express their displeasure with the curren
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