Lowrider From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 3220 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 18072 times:
If you cannot do the job safely, you shouldn't go. Be it illness, fatigue, or distress. Only the individual can determine if they can summon the required level of focus and attention to deal with a worst case scenario that day. Of course if you have many of these incidents, the company may suggest you might be better suited to a different line of work and assist you in transitioning. I called in sick the morning before a trip after an unexpected death in my immediate family because I didn't think I could safely operate for a couple of days. The airline, to its credit, didn't give me any trouble over it.
RandyWaldron From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 324 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 17815 times:
Kudos to this pilot for not flying when he deemed himself to be unfit to fly. I think that we shall see more of this as the US airline industry continues its downward spiral due to mismanagement and record fuel prices.
Lincoln From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3887 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 17732 times:
Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 1): Somehow I think there will be alot more interpersonal conflicts at UA before it's all said and done.
I was in LAS on Thursday looking for Advil (I had 3 hours to kill and a nasty headache) and I passed a United pilot who was screaming himself about Tillon this and Tillon that -- thought he was crazy -- turned out he had a Bluetooth headset in the other ear (who knows if he was actually on a phone call, though -- still could be crazy )
If it is or gets to be anything like the folks at NW (at least in DTW) are twoard Steenland and they start taking it out on customers...
CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
MD88Captain From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1351 posts, RR: 19
Reply 7, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 17679 times:
I believe this pilot had caught some grief from a fellow pilot about wearing his hat. The UAL guys are not wearing their uniform hats in order to show management their solidarity and displeasure over management missteps. Apparently some fellow pilot took it upon himself to harass this guy about wearing his full uniform including the hat. This captain was upset enough to not strap on the jet. Always a gutsy move.
IMO the UAL guys could go naked and their management wouldn't notice or care.
United1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 6882 posts, RR: 10
Reply 10, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 17060 times:
Quoting USAFDO (Reply 9): Could they all legitimately get away with it without punishment?
Short answer is no, union or no union if another employee at UA harasses another UA employee they can be disciplined or fired (just like at any other company.) If someone alleges harassment and during the ensuing investigation it comes out that they just decided to allege harassment because they were pissed off at management that employee could also be in some hot water.
Even if a strike at UA was declared and AFA was doing CHAOS, harassing another employee would probably still land the person doing the harassment in the unemployment office...
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
Flipdewaf From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2006, 1673 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 15794 times:
Good on him. If he cant concentrate then he shouldnt fly. Rather that than he gives it a bash and has an accident. I have some issues and have had to cancel lessons for my PPL before because I didnt feel up to concentrating 100%, hopefully the passengers were quite understanding in this case.
Well, this guy's days are probably numbered anyway seeing as how UA416 is served by a 733/5, according to Flight Aware. Perhaps that had something to do with his preflight phone conversation.
Frankly, if I were a pax on that flight and witnessed a uniformed crew member (front or back of the house) at the gate shouting into a cell phone, I'd have asked to be rebooked. That said, it's incumbant upon employees to ensure that such behavior is not exhibited in plain sight of paying customers. You're more than entitled to be pissed off, but do so professionally.
That leads me to this quote from the article (fair use excerpt):
"In the concourse, on the jetway, wherever. Show solidarity with your fellow pilots, show management our solidarity. Don't wear your hat," it says.
In a statement dated Jan. 15, the union instructed members to adopt the practice because "now is the time to show management that this pilot group is serious about regaining what was stripped from us during bankruptcy."
This is why unions need to go 'F' themselves. Flame me if you want, but this type of Marxist-anarchist mentality that involves fractionalizing one particular group of employees and taking down the whole ship just to make a point is only going to bury UA, at which point EVERYONE will be collecting unemployment.
GeorgiaAME From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1081 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 14059 times:
As a physician and AME, my hat's off to the guy. He did the right thing. If he had been having a severe hayfever attack, it would have been no different. You ground yourself temporarily. Sorry for the passengers inconvenience, but it is the responsibility of the crew to get you from point A to point B safely.
"Trust, but verify!" An old Russian proverb, quoted often by a modern American hero
WarRI1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 11584 posts, RR: 14
Reply 18, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 13984 times:
Quoting 777fan (Reply 14): This is why unions need to go 'F' themselves. Flame me if you want, but this type of Marxist-anarchist mentality that involves fractionalizing one particular group of employees and taking down the whole ship just to make a point is only going to bury UA, at which point EVERYONE will be collecting unemployment.
What a simplistic attitude, I suggest that you take a little time to look at both sides of the story. Typical pro-mangagement bull. UA stting aside millions to line their pockets at the expense of everyone else in this economic climate. It shows the arrogance and greed of UA' top management along with many others. I agree with others on this forum, the pilot was wise to not fly, I have been there and done that, when you get over the rage of dealing with a moron, mangement or union, you are not fit to drive a car, operate a machine and most certainly not to fly innocent passengers until you calm down.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
Bahadir From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 1944 posts, RR: 10
Reply 20, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 13089 times:
Quoting USAFDO (Reply 8): What if both groups -pilots & F/A's do this (just enough crew to walk off the ACFT to CNL the FLT)?
Could they all legitimately get away with it without punishment?
Unfortunately, we cannot do a labor action to create a CHAOS in the airline environment by delaying flights, flying slower, etc. intentionally. On the other hand, there are other things we do like not wearing your hat. We carry a little luggage tag titled UNITY with color codes depending on the way the union feels about our contract negotiations. So far it is green but with no progress in cba negotiations that will change soon..
PhilSquares From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 12690 times:
Quoting 777fan (Reply 14): Well, this guy's days are probably numbered anyway seeing as how UA416 is served by a 733/5, according to Flight Aware. Perhaps that had something to do with his preflight phone conversation.
777fan, your post shows just how little you understand about the role of ALPA and how things really work.
First of all, UAL and all the US airlines need to adopt realistic pricing. Selling your product below cost is a sure recipe for disaster. The worst part is, the company, through their mis-management will turn around and try to extricate more money from the employees and they will use job preservation as their motivation.
Secondly, this pilot was most likely a Captain. His days are not numbered. He will either be bumped to a lower position or if he has the seniority, he can bump up to the 320 if he can hold it and if he wants it.
So, next time you are on your tirade about unions, please remember, it was ALPA that forced the airlines to look as safety. Most if not all the collective bargaining language is the result of management trying to put the pilots in a very bad position.
AAH732UAL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 12641 times:
Quote: $130 million to fund a new incentive plan for executives while the company plans to cut routes and lay off up to 1,600 employees.
I find it very hard to see this guy being harassed to the point of breakdown by fellow employees.
The simple thing is, they are in the flight together.
I could see maybe a small comment being made which may have been the straw that broke his back and he went off. He may have just had got his furlough notice the day before and could have just went into a rage. Or like the NW pilot last year in LAS. Who knows.
I think this pilot did the right thing even though some people may think it was for pissy reasons. Some of the dumbest things could set people off with little warning. Glad he was not in the cockpit when he decided he needed to vent IMO.
Quoting 777fan (Reply 14): This is why unions need to go 'F' themselves.
What a dumb comment based on ignorance. Maybe you need to go "F" yourself. and the reason I say that is because you take that view from the outside looking in. Get both sides before you make a dumb comment like that
OPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 12404 times:
Quoting AAH732UAL (Reply 23): I find it very hard to see this guy being harassed to the point of breakdown by fellow employees.
The simple thing is, they are in the flight together.
That's kind of what prompted me to start this thread, namely that all the outside influences (outside, as in outside of one's personal control), don't appear to have precipitated the event, but peer pressure run amuck.
I also don't fault the guy for declining to fly, but for (allegedly) one pilot to upset another to the point of not beng able to fly strikes me as simultaneously being counterproductive, unsafe, and unprofessional, and not necessarily in that order. Like I said earlier, there has to be more to the story here...
: No furlough notices for pilots have been given as of yet and none are expected until after the summer flying season. That said, the overall stress le
: Taking off hats in the concourse and berating pilots who don't is the kind of thing you normally see in the hallways of grade schools. The whole incid