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A330 Hawaiian Air Routes?  
User currently offlineRwex414 From United States of America, joined May 2008, 82 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 10226 times:

I understand that Hawaiian Air ordered six A330-200s. Has it been decided of which routes they will replace the 767 for or if there are going to be new routes that they will be used for?
Thanks.

41 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12482 posts, RR: 34
Reply 1, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 10123 times:

Purely speculation on my part, but the cargo capacity of the 330s will be significantly higher than the 767s, so routes to Asia could be considered; after all, JAL, KE and CI have plenty of routes to HNL; they could also consider establishing HNL as a hub for cargo or pax operations, particularly from Australia to the US and Canada. The range of the 330s may also allow HA to add route to the east coast, for example BOS, NYC and IAD.

User currently offlineHA_DC9 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 653 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 10107 times:



Quoting Rwex414 (Thread starter):
I understand that Hawaiian Air ordered six A330-200s. Has it been decided of which routes they will replace the 767 for or if there are going to be new routes that they will be used for?

Not decided, but they can and will be used on all existing 767 routes. Also, both their A332 and A358 will be used for potential future routes such as Asia, Europe and North America as was hinted by the CEO previously.

The 763s will stay with HA for some time though (1 is coming online in a few months ex-AC?) as the initial A332 and A358 deliveries are for 2012-2020 even though there is a provision with Airbus to have additional new/used A332 come online between 2009-2012.


User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7550 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 10048 times:



Quoting Kaitak (Reply 1):
JAL, KE and CI have plenty of routes to HNL;

Dont forget NW's 2x NRT and 1x KIX and UA's 2x NRT flights.



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineRwex414 From United States of America, joined May 2008, 82 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 9763 times:



Quoting Kaitak (Reply 1):
The range of the 330s may also allow HA to add route to the east coast, for example BOS, NYC and IAD.

Have they ever looked at the east coast or could this be something new for them?
It would be great if they did come to the east coast.


User currently offlineRwex414 From United States of America, joined May 2008, 82 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 9703 times:

Also, whats the longest route the 767 does right now?
I'm pretty sure its Honolulu to Sydney. Right?


User currently offlineAf773atmsp From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2692 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 9664 times:

Is there demand for HA to fly an A332 HNL-MSP? I know that NW flies 1x A333 MSP-HNL so I'm guessing probably not enough demand?


It ain't no normal MD80 its a Super 80!
User currently offlineContinental From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5519 posts, RR: 18
Reply 7, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 9579 times:



Quoting Af773atmsp (Reply 6):
Is there demand for HA to fly an A332 HNL-msp? I know that NW flies 1x A333 msp-HNL so I'm guessing probably not enough demand?

You are correct. There is no way that would ever happen.


User currently offlineHawaiianA330 From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 23 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 9529 times:



Quoting Rwex414 (Reply 4):

HA was indeed looking at the east coast for expansion and was very close to launching HNL-JFK service until 9/11 changed things. I would expect they still consider the market.

Quoting Rwex414 (Reply 5):

HNL-MNL 5296


User currently offlineTacoronte From United States of America, joined May 2008, 49 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 9264 times:

to Europe? where could Hawaiian possibly fly in Europe, being extremely far away

User currently offlineLambert747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 9224 times:

Quoting Tacoronte (Reply 9):
to Europe? where could Hawaiian possibly fly in Europe, being extremely far away

London, with the increased passenger and tourist flown between the two. I believe that Branson mention HNL-SYD as a possible 787 route.

http://starbulletin.com/2007/04/25/business/story01.html

Of course we are still waiting for the elusive Virgin Atlantic service to Rio de Janeiro as well..

Quoting Rwex414 (Reply 4):
Have they ever looked at the east coast or could this be something new for them?

I have heard a few things over the years and the same places keep being brought up time and time again:

Chicago, Dallas, New York, St. Louis(yes, you heard me, St. Louis)

[Edited 2008-06-22 23:45:20]

User currently offlineHAL From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 2561 posts, RR: 53
Reply 11, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 8986 times:

No, we haven't decided on any routes for the Airbus yet. That will all depend on how the economy is doing at the time they arrive. If it's bad, we'll just replace current 767 flying with the 'bus. If it's doing OK and expansion is indicated, then we'll keep the 767's and the sky is the limit for the 'bus. I think high priority markets include (and this is just coming from the local rumor mill): ICN, HKG, TPE, JFK, BWI, and MEL. Other possibilities include NRT, PEK, SIN, BNE, AKL, YYZ, ORD, BOS, ATL, DEN, and DFW. LHR has been mentioned quite a bit too, but would have to wait for the A358 to show up in about nine years. We would like to become an Asia-North Am. hub-and-spoke airline, with one stop service between the largest markets in the US and the Pacific Rim.

HAL



One smooth landing is skill. Two in a row is luck. Three in a row and someone is lying.
User currently offlinePohakuloa From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 419 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 8934 times:



Quoting Lambert747 (Reply 10):
Quoting Tacoronte (Reply 9):
to Europe? where could Hawaiian possibly fly in Europe, being extremely far away

London, with the increased passenger and tourist flown between the two. I believe that Branson mention HNL-SYD as a possible 787 route.

http://starbulletin.com/2007/04/25/b....html

with the A358 and the codeshare between Virgin and Hawaiian, I had always thought that maybe SRB would use his ideas for LHR-HNL route through HA and perhaps giving HA a slot for that route. thats my own theory though, not based in fact.

There were hints of possible destinations in other threads including east coast destination and new asia markets.

as for which routes they would place the 332's on initially, i would imagine they would use them on the international flights firstly ( MNL, SYD, PPG, PPT)



Fast cars and 'Jet A' - such a sweet smell!
User currently offlineHAL From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 2561 posts, RR: 53
Reply 13, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 8881 times:



Quoting Pohakuloa (Reply 12):
as for which routes they would place the 332's on initially, i would imagine they would use them on the international flights firstly ( MNL, SYD, PPG, PPT)

Actually, the first few aircraft will be flying Hawaii-west coast initially because we want to get as many crews trained in as short a time as possible. That means shorter (and more frequent) legs. They'll want to keep them close to our maintenance bases too, so you'll probably see them going first to LAX, SFO, PDX, and maybe SEA. Once we get the first batch of crews trained (as well as letting the mechanics have a good look at them), then yes, you'll probably see more of them going further afield. That said, the 767 has been doing great for us to SYD and MNL, and I don't see a pressing need to replace them any time soon on those routes. If we do longer routes as part of getting the planes, then that is where you'll see them - places like the east coast of the US, plus HKG, SIN, ICN, etc.

HAL



One smooth landing is skill. Two in a row is luck. Three in a row and someone is lying.
User currently offlineJHM01 From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 13 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 7923 times:

Do we know what engines they're going with on the new A330's, my guess is Pratt's.

User currently offlineUKA330 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 69 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 7041 times:
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FORUM MODERATOR



Quoting JHM01 (Reply 14):
Do we know what engines they're going with on the new A330's, my guess is Pratt's.

They have chosen the RR Trent 700 for there A330's, and the Trent XWB for the A350's, keeping it in the family lol! Big grin


User currently offlineBlueFlyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4024 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 6243 times:
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Quoting Kaitak (Reply 1):
they could also consider establishing HNL as a hub for cargo or pax operations, particularly from Australia to the US and Canada.

Freight from Australia to the US is insignificant. So much so that QF's three weekly cargo flights to the US head to Asia first then on to the US.

There's more freight in the opposite direction (US to Australia), but freight alone isn't going to be making the difference that it does on many other routes between loss-making and profitable.



I've got $h*t to do
User currently offlinePorkchop From Canada, joined Jun 2008, 18 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 5746 times:

Question: If an airline is switching from the 767 to the A330, does it hire new pilots or do the 767 pilots get training on the new aircraft? How long does it take to train a pilot?

User currently offlineC680 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 588 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 5689 times:



Quoting HAL (Reply 11):
We would like to become an Asia-North Am. hub-and-spoke airline, with one stop service between the largest markets in the US and the Pacific Rim.

A bit off the beaten path isn't it? (Click HERE for some average routes and milage)

For most trans-pacific routes, HNL is more than 1000nm off course - for some it's more than 2000nm detour.

Granted, not much you can do about it. It's not like you are on an episode of "Lost" and can move the island.  Wink



My happy place is FL470 - what's yours?
User currently offlineJAAlbert From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1608 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 5621 times:

I wanna see the HA 350s in San Diego! We NEVER get the good planes here! (well sometimes we do, but still).

User currently offlineLambert747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 5478 times:



Quoting C680 (Reply 18):
For most trans-pacific routes, HNL is more than 1000nm off course - for some it's more than 2000nm detour

From the West Coast there is little if any difference via HNL or via SFO/LAX

SMF-HNL-SYD - 7529 Miles
SMF-LAX-SYD - 7861 Miles

SMF-HNL-MNL - 7764 Miles
SMF-LAX-GUM-MNL -7495 Miles

SEA-HNL-SYD - 7744 Miles
SEA-SFO-SYD - 8096 Miles

From Possible new Hawaiian Airlines Mainland Gateways via HNL or via SFO/LAX

ORD-HNL-SYD - 9310 Miles
ORD-LAX-SYD - 9233 Miles

DFW-HNL-SYD - 8851 Miles
DFW-LAX-SYD - 8723 Miles

JFK-HNL-SYD - 10050 Miles
JFK-SFO-SYD - 10003 Miles

Contrary to the belief of some Honolulu is not thousands of miles out of the way.. It is however over two thousand of miles out of the way when you show a route such as JFK-HNL-SIN vs EWR-SIN, or just under one thousand miles out of the way with MIA-HNL-PVG vs MIA-SFO-PVG. As can be said, I dont think the masses will clammer to pay the premium to fly the EWR-SIN nonstop on Singapore Airlines.


User currently offlinePohakuloa From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 419 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 4955 times:



Quoting UKA330 (Reply 15):
Quoting JHM01 (Reply 14):
Do we know what engines they're going with on the new A330's, my guess is Pratt's.

They have chosen the RR Trent 700 for there A330's, and the Trent XWB for the A350's, keeping it in the family lol!

also with the 717's having the Rolls Royce BR715's, it will be an all RR fleet for HA if/when the 767's get fully phased out.



Fast cars and 'Jet A' - such a sweet smell!
User currently offlineBluewave 707 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3152 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 4885 times:

In the article about HA in Airliner World magazine, the airline was tight lipped on any expansion plans.


"The best use of your life will be to so live your life, that the use of your life will outlive your life" -- D Severn
User currently offlineDTWAGENT From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1283 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 4853 times:

It would be nice to see them come into DTW. Since NW as not had a non-stop flight to HNL for a few years. And I don't see them starting that back up again. Because they used a DC-10 on this service.

As far as ATL goes. Why would they compete with DL being they have a code share with HA.??? Just like they do with NW out of MSP. And DL has a few flights from ATL to HNL now.

My thinking is DTW, JFK, BOS, and possibly CLT.

chuck


User currently offlineHawaiian717 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3195 posts, RR: 7
Reply 24, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 4851 times:



Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 19):
I wanna see the HA 350s in San Diego! We NEVER get the good planes here! (well sometimes we do, but still).

SAN was one of HA's first destinations to make the switch from the DC-10 to the 767.


25 C680 : HNL works for Austrailia & New Zeland, but thats about it. Japan, China, Korea are all much quicker with non-stop service. HAL seemed to be thinking
26 Rwex414 : Does anyone know the answer to this question? Its killing me to know.
27 Egcarter : HNL was THE trans-pacific hub for many decades. As a kid in the 60's all sorts of planes passed through HNL on the way to/from points east, south and
28 Bok269 : Existing pilots will be trained based on seniority to fly the new aircraft. If the buses serve as a means of expansion (ie the 767s stick around) you
29 JohnClipper : But that's because the aircraft couldn't do the range nonstop - now they can which bypasses HNL completely. Same as why ANC has disappeared for all E
30 Rwex414 : How long does it take to train a pilot from 767s to A330s?
31 HAL : Everything, and I mean everything is done by seniority. In essence, every time the company has new pilot seats open up, whether through retirement or
32 Egcarter : Of course, we know that. But then, why are there hubs anyway? They clearly have their uses.
33 JohnClipper : Yes, but not in the middle of the ocean!
34 C680 : True, but that was when aircraft lacked the range to go non-stop on the great circle route. HAL's point was that HA was thinking of making HNL a new
35 Brons2 : Nobody flies SAN-NRT nonstop, do they? That being the case, your choice of connecting hubs may come down to which is more delay prone. I'd definitely
36 EXAAUADL : How many 767s does HA have? 6 A330s doesnt seem like enough to replace the 767s
37 USAirALB : Some of their 763's are relatively new. They orded 6 332's and 6 350's. The 332's would make service to the East coast possible, as the 763's face wei
38 Lambert747 : Since there is no nonstop service from San Diego to Narita, I dont think this is a valid point. There are however, people in San Diego who connect vi
39 Viscount724 : HNL is still very far out of the way to points like NRT, ICN, HKG etc. And to MNL it's almost 700 miles shoter via NRT than via HNL and almost 400 mi
40 Lambert747 : It is comparing apples to oranges. No one is saying that Hawaiian Airlines needs to serve Japan, Taiwan, China, Hong Kong, or Korea to make any of th
41 HNL-Jack : Given the continued rise in fuel prices and the general downturn in travel, I suspect we'll see a rather conservative approach to expansion by HA. The
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