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India-Japan Bilateral Revised To 42 Weekly Flights  
User currently offlineLAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 47
Posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2248 times:

It is not clear from the article if Indian carriers also get 42 weekly 5th freedom rights to North America; If not, then the agreement is not worth as much to the Indian side.

In the event, IT's BLR-SFO non-stop is not financially viable, BLR-NRT-SFO, along with BOM-NRT-LAX and DEL-NRT-YVR with terminator flights from MAA/HYD to NRT will make for a viable NRT hub strategy. Not sure if convenient slots are easily available at NRT.

As the existing route rights are not fully utilized, I wonder if this revision is coming at the request of IT which may have to rethink its non-stop India-USA strategy in light of high fuel prices.

http://avindia.blogspot.com/
Quotes:
India and Japan have agreed to double the weekly flights between the two countries to 42. The move will be effective from March 2010. Under the new agreement, Japanese carriers will be entitled to operate 14 services each on Tokyo-Delhi and Tokyo-Mumbai sectors in 2010 from the existing 7 services each on these routes. The Indian carriers will also be able to operate up to 28 services a week from multiple points in India to Tokyo.

Currently, only Air India offers its services on the India-Japan sector. The public sector airline operates four flights each to Tokyo and Osaka. Two Japanese carriers --- Japan Airlines and All Nippon Airways --- offers its services to India.

15 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineNimish From India, joined Feb 2005, 3235 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2192 times:



Quoting LAXDESI (Thread starter):
Not sure if convenient slots are easily available at NRT.

Nope - NRT is supposed to be a severely slot restricted airport. However KIX has plenty of slots (though it's supposed to be one of the world's most expensive airports). I've been through KIX a couple of times when flying TG's BKK-KIX-LAX route - and I always loved that airport!



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User currently offlineBoeing747_600 From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 1295 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2174 times:



Quoting LAXDESI (Thread starter):
In the event, IT's BLR-SFO non-stop is not financially viable,

What about AI's SFO-BLR route? Is this a done deal yet?!?!?!


User currently offlineLAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 47
Reply 3, posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2153 times:



Quoting Boeing747_600 (Reply 2):
Quoting LAXDESI (Thread starter):
In the event, IT's BLR-SFO non-stop is not financially viable,

What about AI's SFO-BLR route? Is this a done deal yet?!?!?!

There are reports that AI may be reducing frequencies on DEL/BOM-JFK non-stop flights; therefore, it would have the ability to offer non-stop on BLR-SFO (say 4x weekly). This route could do well if AI were to codeshare with UA.


User currently offlineNimish From India, joined Feb 2005, 3235 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2086 times:



Quoting Boeing747_600 (Reply 2):

What about AI's SFO-BLR route? Is this a done deal yet?!?!?!

It's almost "done" as a deal - basically there's no further news from AI on this route, and it's doubtful if they'll start it, especially keeping their "disastrous" experience from their new non-stop NYC routes.



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User currently offlineBlrBird From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 579 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2067 times:



Quoting Nimish (Reply 1):
Nope - NRT is supposed to be a severely slot restricted airport.

As part of this deal India will get 20 additional slots in NRT or HND airports by 2010.



from star dust....
User currently offlineLAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 47
Reply 6, posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2020 times:



Quoting Nimish (Reply 4):
It's almost "done" as a deal - basically there's no further news from AI on this route, and it's doubtful if they'll start it, especially keeping their "disastrous" experience from their new non-stop NYC routes.

Instead of parking the 772LRs, AI must try some new routes away from NYC market. Start both BLR-SFO (3x weekly), and BOM-ORD (3x weekly)--both excellent O&D markets and Star hubs. Why not codeshare with UA on these routes?

As for the new India-Japan bilateral, I wonder if any Japanese carrier is interested in creating a hub with DEL/BOM/BLR-NRT-YVR/LAX/SFO flights.


User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12475 posts, RR: 37
Reply 7, posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2015 times:



Quoting BlrBird (Reply 5):
As part of this deal India will get 20 additional slots in NRT or HND airports by 2010.

There is considerable pressure in Japan to open HND (when it's new runway is opened) to longer range international flights, rather than the limited radius currently proposed. The new runway will be open in 2012, so any new slots for Indian carriers will be for NRT in the short term, but I would expect Indian carriers to benefit if/when HND is opened up to more intercontinental flights.


User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4784 posts, RR: 43
Reply 8, posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1982 times:

The A 332 from a capacity stand point is the perfect aircraft for BLR-NRT, DEL-NRT and BOM-NRT operations.

Both AI and 9W can easily get 70% plus load factors in the premium and economy class cabins on India-NRT bound flights and maybe even more if the flight connects to Heathrow via BOM or DEL.

For JAL to send a B 744 to DEL means that there is a growing market to tap into on this segment.


User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17508 posts, RR: 45
Reply 9, posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1965 times:



Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 6):
Instead of parking the 772LRs, AI must try some new routes away from NYC market. Start both BLR-SFO (3x weekly), and BOM-ORD (3x weekly)--both excellent O&D markets and Star hubs. Why not codeshare with UA on these routes?

I'd say forget the BLRSFO and do BOMORD daily with a UA codeshare on the ORD end--I think that would do reasonably well.

Quoting Behramjee (Reply 8):
For JAL to send a B 744 to DEL means that there is a growing market to tap into on this segment.

Are the current bilateral frequencies all taken today? I don't think they are?



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineBoeing747_600 From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 1295 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1937 times:



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 9):
I'd say forget the BLRSFO

You are hereby fired!


User currently offlineManny From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 473 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1919 times:



Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 3):
There are reports that AI may be reducing frequencies on DEL/BOM-JFK non-stop flights; therefore, it would have the ability to offer non-stop on BLR-SFO (say 4x weekly). This route could do well if AI were to codeshare with UA.



Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 6):
Start both BLR-SFO (3x weekly), and BOM-ORD (3x weekly)--both excellent O&D markets and Star hubs. Why not codeshare with UA on these routes?

They should fly daily BLR-SFO instead of the daily nonstop BOM-JFK route. I think BLR-SFO would make a killing! BOM-ORD nonstops instead of a one stop would be another option to replace the BOM-JFK nonstops.

Quoting Nimish (Reply 4):
It's almost "done" as a deal - basically there's no further news from AI on this route, and it's doubtful if they'll start it, especially keeping their "disastrous" experience from their new non-stop NYC routes.

Thats a sad thing. Once upon a time even before the the BOM-JFK nonstop was ever started i had predicted it would be a failure no matter what and AI instead focus its attention on BLR-SFO.


User currently offlineCarpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2954 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 1903 times:

Despite the expansion in Japan-India frequency allocation, there hasn't been much movement on the side of the Indians. Jet Airways could easily add flights to KIX or NGO, but of course its 77W and A332 can be used in more revenue bearing flights elsewhere in its system.

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 7):
There is considerable pressure in Japan to open HND (when it's new runway is opened) to longer range international flights

Pressure there maybe but HND will be first and foremost a domestic airport.


User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17508 posts, RR: 45
Reply 13, posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 1852 times:



Quoting Manny (Reply 11):
Thats a sad thing. Once upon a time even before the the BOM-JFK nonstop was ever started i had predicted it would be a failure no matter what and AI instead focus its attention on BLR-SFO.

Why would that be better? They have much less presence in BLR or SFO than they do in BOM or JFK, which is a much bigger market. If they can't make BOMJFK work how can they make a smaller but highly local BLRSFO route work? AI+IC have a formidable presence in BOM and a Star Alliance membership--why not leverage those strengths and connect BOM to ORD/SFO/IAD?



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineLAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 47
Reply 14, posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 1818 times:



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 13):
Quoting Manny (Reply 11):
Thats a sad thing. Once upon a time even before the the BOM-JFK nonstop was ever started i had predicted it would be a failure no matter what and AI instead focus its attention on BLR-SFO.

Why would that be better? They have much less presence in BLR or SFO than they do in BOM or JFK, which is a much bigger market. If they can't make BOMJFK work how can they make a smaller but highly local BLRSFO route work? AI+IC have a formidable presence in BOM and a Star Alliance membership--why not leverage those strengths and connect BOM to ORD/SFO/IAD?

AI has non-stop competition on NYC-BOM/DEL sectors, where as no non-stop competition exists at present on BLR-SFO sector; furthermore, a codeshare with UA will likely make this a viable route.

They can easily sub 777ERs on DEL-JFK route to free up the 772LRs to start both SFO-BLR and BOM-ORD.


User currently offlineNimish From India, joined Feb 2005, 3235 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 1679 times:



Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 14):
AI has non-stop competition on NYC-BOM/DEL sectors, where as no non-stop competition exists at present on BLR-SFO sector; furthermore, a codeshare with UA will likely make this a viable route.

I would think it should be some sort of revenue sharing to be meaningful to UA - because that have that in their current arrangement with LH - which is what they use to send traffic currently on the SFO-BLR sector.

I honestly think that AI should give BLR-SFO non-stop a shot, it's their best bet for an "untapped" new route. But knowing AI and their attitude, they'd not want to bother with setting up ops at BLR - after all all their employees are "comfortably" based in BOM or DEL and there's no reason to move them away to a new city in India  sarcastic 



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