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How Did This Guy Get A Licence?!  
User currently offlineCumulus From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 1402 posts, RR: 1
Posted (6 years 4 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 11310 times:

Even if he was a student, the instructor should have intervened!!

Unreal!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKR-Vj5H8u8&feature=related


What Goes Up Must Come Down, Hopefully In One Piece!
40 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDesertFlyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 515 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 years 4 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 11294 times:

Seems like they panicked after having radio problems. You could tell they were overwhelmed at the end there. Never a good sign when they have you call! Hear that every now and then at IWA with all the student traffic.

User currently offlineJoseKMLB From United States of America, joined May 2008, 493 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 years 4 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 11267 times:

Wow thats crazy. We had a student pilot here in KMLB land on the taxiway for some reason I guess he thought that the blue lights were the runway  rotfl 

User currently offlineTranspac787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3214 posts, RR: 13
Reply 3, posted (6 years 4 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 11247 times:



Quoting Cumulus (Thread starter):
Even if he was a student, the instructor should have intervened!!

I can't imagine there was an instructor in there too. That was a massive clusterf**k.

Anyhow, can you spell V-I-O-L-A-T-I-O-N ?!?


User currently offlineMPDPilot From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 994 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 4 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 11151 times:

Sounds like he was having some radio trouble.

Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 3):
Anyhow, can you spell V-I-O-L-A-T-I-O-N ?!?

I would be so quick to jump to that. I guess I don't see what he violated. I realize he wasn't following instructions, but he was clearly having problems understanding the controller. I would be curious about the controller. Saying "just get off the runway now" isn't anywhere near proper procedure. Also I noticed that the controller just cleared him to land, but didn't specify a runway either. Sounded as if the controller was treating the aircraft like it had lost coms. But I don't understand if that was the case, why he would rush the aircraft off the runway.

I would also point out that I looked at the airport diagram, and I couldn't even figure out where anyone was, so I can only imagine how confused they were, with a controller yelling at them.

Just sounds like a com problem.

PS when the controller has you call them after landing, it doesn't mean they are going to violate you. Sometimes they just want to talk to you about your operations that isn't something that they shouldn't be talking about on the radio.



One mile of highway gets you one mile, one mile of runway gets you anywhere.
User currently offlinePlatinumfoota From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 556 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (6 years 4 months 1 day ago) and read 11099 times:

This one is one of my favorites..



Never forget United 93
User currently offlineHalcyon From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (6 years 4 months 1 day ago) and read 11085 times:



Quoting MPDPilot (Reply 4):
Sounds like he was having some radio trouble.

Something did not seem to be right. I think that the controller was being a bit of an ass. Was the pilot perfect? No. But I don't know what was going on, either. I do know that screaming, talking fast, and being abrupt are stupid ways to try and deal with a person who is clearly flustered. You can roll with the punches and try to deal effectively with them, or you can yell and show your anger and power and accomplish very little.


User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5476 posts, RR: 30
Reply 7, posted (6 years 4 months 1 day ago) and read 11027 times:

I worry about a pilot that, even when he knows he's one of 3 on final, won't clear the active runway, regardless of radio problems, or perhaps even more urgently because of them.


What the...?
User currently offlineCumulus From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 1402 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (6 years 4 months 1 day ago) and read 10990 times:



Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 7):
I worry about a pilot that, even when he knows he's one of 3 on final, won't clear the active runway, regardless of radio problems, or perhaps even more urgently because of them.

My thoughts exactly.......................  bigthumbsup 



What Goes Up Must Come Down, Hopefully In One Piece!
User currently offlineTranspac787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3214 posts, RR: 13
Reply 9, posted (6 years 4 months 1 day ago) and read 10974 times:



Quoting MPDPilot (Reply 4):
I guess I don't see what he violated.

Being the direct cause of a runway incursion is more than enough for a formal violation.

Quoting MPDPilot (Reply 4):
I realize he wasn't following instructions,

Another reason to potentially be violated.

Quoting MPDPilot (Reply 4):
but he was clearly having problems understanding the controller.

ATC's instructions were very clear. If the guy was having com problems there were many things he could have done. A 7600 squak on the transponder, or simply ask to go around the pattern again to deal with any minor issues.

Stopping on the runway is colossally stupid. ATC having to tell arriving traffic to go around due to traffic stopping on the active runway more than qualifies as a runway incursion, which more than qualifies you for a formal violation if you are at fault.

Quoting MPDPilot (Reply 4):
it doesn't mean they are going to violate you.

But obviously not something you hear frequently and not something you ever want to hear requested of you.


User currently offlineSilver1SWA From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 4838 posts, RR: 26
Reply 10, posted (6 years 4 months 21 hours ago) and read 10749 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting Platinumfoota (Reply 5):
This one is one of my favorites..

While we're at it, this is one of my favs...lol




ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineHenkybaby From Netherlands, joined May 2008, 593 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (6 years 4 months 21 hours ago) and read 10698 times:

Try listening to it without subtitles...  Smile


Wherever you go, there you are!
User currently offlineJhooper From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 6204 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (6 years 4 months 17 hours ago) and read 10362 times:

Here's what I heard at JFK the other day. The place is normally a zoo, but here are two guys getting their rears handed to them at 2:30-3:00am in the morning when there was very little going on.

http://archive-server.liveatc.net/kjfk/KJFK-Twr-Jun-16-2008-0630Z.mp3
(go to about the 4 minute point)

http://archive-server.liveatc.net/kjfk/KJFK-Twr-Jun-16-2008-0700Z.mp3
(right away)

[Edited 2008-06-25 06:02:48]


Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
User currently offlineCaspritz78 From Germany, joined Aug 2007, 518 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 4 months 16 hours ago) and read 10134 times:



Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 10):
While we're at it, this is one of my favs...lol

Where are you? What? How did you get there? A normal day at JFK.

I think JFK really needs a ground radar together with a traffic routing program.


User currently offlineP3Orion From United States of America, joined May 2006, 544 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (6 years 4 months 16 hours ago) and read 10021 times:

Quoting Cumulus (Thread starter):
Even if he was a student, the instructor should have intervened!!


Quoting MPDPilot (Reply 4):
Sounds like he was having some radio trouble.
Flying a MO20, I doubt he was a student, and it does not seem he was having radio problems. It appears the pilot was way behind the aircraft. Maybe upgraded too fast in relationship to his skill level. Kinda like how Bonanzas are called "Doctor killers."

Quoting MPDPilot (Reply 4):
Saying "just get off the runway now" isn't anywhere near proper procedure.
Sure it is. Using plain English is authorized when standard phraseology is not being understood or ignored.

Quoting MPDPilot (Reply 4):
why he would rush the aircraft off the runway.
Because he had traffic cleared for a Touch 'n Go on short final.

[quote=Halcyon,reply=6]I think that the controller was being a bit of an ass.

I disagree. The controller was not being an ass, nor was he yelling at the pilot. Yes, he was being stern and short, but the situation called for it.

Stuff like this happens a lot. I can remember working at HYA and having a Baron stop on my RWY and refused to exit until he found out which FBO had the cheaper fuel. This caused an ATR 42 to go around. The ATR crew promptly 'buzzed" the BE58 as they flew down the RWY.

[Edited 2008-06-25 07:29:48]

[Edited 2008-06-25 07:32:47]

[Edited 2008-06-25 07:33:29]


"Did he say strap in or strap on?"
User currently offlineHalcyon From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (6 years 4 months 15 hours ago) and read 9765 times:



Quoting P3Orion (Reply 14):
I disagree. The controller was not being an ass, nor was he yelling at the pilot. Yes, he was being stern and short, but the situation called for it.

Well, whatever he was being, it certainly didn't help.


User currently offlineB6JFKH81 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2894 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (6 years 4 months 14 hours ago) and read 9678 times:

LOL, I love some of the things you see and hear at FRG. Things can get really interesting when the pattern is full and you have some jets that need to get into the mix. I have to admit though, this one is definitely towards the top of the list for most entertaining communications at FRG!


"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
User currently offlineSocalfive From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (6 years 4 months 14 hours ago) and read 9610 times:



Quoting MPDPilot (Reply 4):
I would be so quick to jump to that. I guess I don't see what he violated. I realize he wasn't following instructions, but he was clearly having problems understanding the controller. I would be curious about the controller. Saying "just get off the runway now" isn't anywhere near proper procedure. Also I noticed that the controller just cleared him to land, but didn't specify a runway either. Sounded as if the controller was treating the aircraft like it had lost coms. But I don't understand if that was the case, why he would rush the aircraft off the runway.

On approaching an airport the active runway is pretty evident, so for the controller to call out a clearance to land and not specifying the runway isn't necessarily bad procedure. Did 77F have an ATC Flight following into the TCA, or did he use an ATIS frequency on approach? Whatever the case was, he was clearly headed down the right path. The point here is there's radio traffic going on and as a pilot you're hearing all of it, you know who's in front of you and who's behind you and a really great view of the field on final. So, there's absolutely no reason and never is it a standard practice to sit still on the runway and try and figure out where to go next after you've landed. CLEAR THE ACTIVE! Even if you turn the wrong way, clear the active and let Ground take you where you need to go. Period. This guy sounded to me as if he was older and confused, time to hang it up.


This happened to me once coming into an uncontrolled airport with a Unicom. There was a student in the pattern shooting touch and gos and I called out from five miles that I would be entering the pattern for the active runway, then called out entering downwind BEHIND the student 152, he called base on his turn, then called his final at which point I turned base and called the turn, then turned final and called the turn. Then this student did a full stop and back-taxi on the runway as I was on final. So there are simply people that do not belong at the controls of an airplane and this is merely another one.


User currently offlineP3Orion From United States of America, joined May 2006, 544 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (6 years 4 months 14 hours ago) and read 9557 times:



Quoting Halcyon (Reply 15):
Well, whatever he was being, it certainly didn't help.

So what do you think the controller should've said or done? The pilot was obviously behind the power curve and there were aircraft on final. We (controllers) are not baby sitters.



"Did he say strap in or strap on?"
User currently offlineATCGOD From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 662 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (6 years 4 months 14 hours ago) and read 9471 times:



Quoting MPDPilot (Reply 4):

I would be so quick to jump to that. I guess I don't see what he violated. I realize he wasn't following instructions, but he was clearly having problems understanding the controller. I would be curious about the controller. Saying "just get off the runway now" isn't anywhere near proper procedure. Also I noticed that the controller just cleared him to land, but didn't specify a runway either. Sounded as if the controller was treating the aircraft like it had lost coms. But I don't understand if that was the case, why he would rush the aircraft off the runway.

First off, it's not like this was some 737 coming barreling in for a full stop, the following aircraft was a touch and go...not a big deal to send them around. Second, the Mooney was cleared to land and maybe he was a bit unfamiliar. It just seems to me like this controller made a much bigger deal out of this because he was frustrated with the lack of acknowledgment by the Mooney. Simple fixes that were blown out of proportion.


User currently offlineJhooper From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 6204 posts, RR: 12
Reply 20, posted (6 years 4 months 10 hours ago) and read 8711 times:



Quoting Socalfive (Reply 17):
Did 77F have an ATC Flight following into the TCA

TCA, eh? Been awhile?



Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
User currently offlineHalcyon From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (6 years 4 months 10 hours ago) and read 8711 times:



Quoting P3Orion (Reply 18):

See:

Quoting ATCGOD (Reply 19):

 checkmark 


You might not be baby sitters, but when controllers start sounding hysterical, it just doesn't help. And it even spread to the person that had to go around. Anyway, you don't need to sound defensive, as I'm not attacking you or controllers in general. I just don't think that this particular controller was controlling his anger very well, even though he's competent in his job 99.999% of the time.

ATCGOD is completely correct, from what I heard. Still, I wasn't there, so I can't armchair too much.


User currently offlineIFlyATA From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 242 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (6 years 4 months 10 hours ago) and read 8581 times:

Controller and pilot following him over-reacted way too much...so what, go-around? The pilot should exit the runway, but meanwhile while the controller is shouting at him and the other pilot is throwing out expletives, it prevents the pilot from actually getting a clear, concise, and proper instruction.


ATA - an honestly different airline.
User currently offlineBond007 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 5428 posts, RR: 8
Reply 23, posted (6 years 4 months 9 hours ago) and read 7892 times:

Yeah, a little over the top from the controller IMO, although I feel his frustration.

It would appear not be as much a radio problem, as an incompetent pilot at the controls. Even when he replied it didn't sound like he knew what was going on. Rule #1 - clear the runway - no need to wait for a clearance.

But, as much as the Mooney pilot should have been aware of his situation and the other aircraft ... so should the other aircraft on final. It should have been quite obvious to everyone else on final, that an aircraft was stopped on the runway, and they should have been prepared to go-around .. as they should be prepared to anyway.

Quoting MPDPilot (Reply 4):
Just sounds like a com problem.

Not to me ... like I said, when he did reply it didn't sound like he was very competent.

In fact, the AIM advises "exit the runway at the first available taxiway" after landing.


Jimbo



I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
User currently offlineMNeo From Bulgaria, joined Mar 2004, 776 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (6 years 4 months 9 hours ago) and read 7671 times:



Quoting JoseKMLB (Reply 2):

When did this happen? Did not hear about it when i was at FIT last year.

But on topic, when i was flying at FIT, we had some OLD airplanes, and one time my headset got cut off in 15 sec intervals. It was a pain in the ass to land, as my transmissions and commands towards me would be cut off at random intervals. And i spent a good time fooling around to get the radio to work while trying to land, and it does get overwhelming for a low hour pilot. So one cannot judge something just on an ATC basis without knowing what was going on in the cockpit.



Powered by Maina
25 MPDPilot : I think he sounded confused, cause he couldn't hear what was being told to him. But that is really just different interpretations so no big deal. Als
26 Post contains images Bond007 : Well, a 'low hour pilot" shouldn't be flying around in a Mooney IMO. Also, you shouldn't be fooling around with your radio while trying to land. Watc
27 Jpax : Are you talking about the incident on April 18? I don't think you are, though, that was in daytime. The Skyhawk landed on the taxiway next to 9R or 9
28 Socalfive : LOL, not that long awhile, old habits...
29 FlyDeltaJets87 : One thing I want to know. If he was having com issues, why did he respond "read you loud and clear" when ATC asked him if he was having radio issues?
30 ACDC8 : I don't think he's been having COM problems, sounds more like poor pilot/radio skills to me.
31 RobK : That is absolutely hilarious! Thanks for posting - really enjoyed that. R
32 FLY2HMO : I get that all too often in PRC. Too many old people that own hangar queens and only fly like once a year, and who knows how the hell they get a medi
33 797 : That dude is famous even here in Riddle!
34 Greg3322 : I assume you haven't rented an airplane lately. I'm guessing that go-around cost the Cessna pilot $20-30 dollars. An unfamiliar airport is no excuse
35 P3Orion : Are you serious? Agreed (partially) the aicraft that was sent around should not have said anything other than the go around instructions. I just list
36 JoeCanuck : Unlike FSS operators, AT controllers don't offer suggestions..they issue orders which must be obeyed unless it's unsafe to do so. When they tell you t
37 NEMA : Great fun to listen to but...a bit disturbing too.
38 Halcyon : No.
39 JoseKMLB : I really dont know the time it happened because it was on my day off, I just heared out it from everyone. And it was 9L[Edited 2008-06-26 23:01:05]
40 JoseKMLB : April of this year
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