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1st Chinese A320 To Be Assembled : Picture  
User currently offlineFCKC From France, joined Nov 2004, 2348 posts, RR: 4
Posted (6 years 1 month 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 13240 times:

http://www.lefigaro.fr:80/societes-f...rebours-pour-l-a-made-in-china.php

It left Hamburg last Tuesday , and will reach Tianjin to be assembled and delivered next June to Sichuan Al.Very first Chinese A320.

Which C/N is it ? Not high resolution enough to be read on the pîcture.

28 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineWorldrider From Switzerland, joined Nov 2007, 301 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 years 1 month 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 13171 times:

i don't agree with the title, the frame is assembled BUT NOT made in china. how many
% of it is made over there? still a very bad move from airbus, giving away technology and knowledge in exchange of pretty much "nothing".


User currently offlineOldeuropean From Germany, joined May 2005, 2077 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (6 years 1 month 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 13088 times:

Can't wait for the day, in some years to come, a Chinese company will present his new aircraft.
An aircraft called "Stormwind", "Flying Dragon", or something similar.
And they will express how proud the Chinese people is to accomplish the goal to build such a modern airliner, ... and funny ..., it will look like an A320.  Yeah sure


Axel



Wer nichts weiss muss alles glauben
User currently offlineSteman From Germany, joined Aug 2000, 1369 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (6 years 1 month 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 13009 times:

I agree with Oldeuropean.
The ARJ looks already painfully similar to a DC9/MD80/B717 and one wonders how much the trunkliner program with McDonnel Douglas has to do in the development of this "brand new" airplane.

Sometimes I fear that Western Companies, in the attempt to get as much business as possible with China now, are actually digging their own graves.

Ciao

Stefano


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31667 posts, RR: 56
Reply 4, posted (6 years 1 month 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 12875 times:



Quoting Steman (Reply 3):
Sometimes I fear that Western Companies, in the attempt to get as much business as possible with China now, are actually digging their own graves.

If reverse engineerred chinese products have the same quality only then they can be a threat  Smile
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 5, posted (6 years 1 month 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 12812 times:



Quoting Worldrider (Reply 1):
still a very bad move from airbus, giving away technology and knowledge in exchange of pretty much "nothing".

The A320 is now more than 20 years old -- hardly the latest technology. Assembly of aluminium fuselages will not be important in future airliner manufacturing. In exchange for this, Airbus gets some sales that otherwise would have gone to the 737. I don't have enough information to judge whether or not it was a good deal for Airbus, but I have no particular reason to doubt Airbus's ability to judge that.


User currently offlineTavong From Colombia, joined Jul 2001, 835 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (6 years 1 month 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 12783 times:



Quoting Zvezda (Reply 5):
Assembly of aluminium fuselages will not be important in future airliner manufacturing

Yes but the market inside Chine is not small and if they buy only this "aluminium fuselages" will be a lot of business neither A or B will get. Your reasoning maybe good BUT maybe in the long run will not be as good is ith migth appear.

Gus
SKBO



Colombian coffee, the best...take a cup and you will see how delicious it is.
User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 7, posted (6 years 1 month 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 12748 times:



Quoting Tavong (Reply 6):
the market inside Chine is not small and if they buy only this "aluminium fuselages" will be a lot of business neither A or B will get. Your reasoning maybe good BUT maybe in the long run will not be as good is ith migth appear.

Are you assuming that Chinese airlines will buy Chinese-made A320s 10 to 20 years from now when Airbus and Boeing are selling CFRP narrow-bodies? If so, that's a win for Airbus. Or, are you assuming that 10 to 20 years from now, the Chinese will develop a new aluminium narrow-body to compete with CFRP designs from Airbus and Boeing?


User currently offlineScorpio From Belgium, joined Oct 2001, 5018 posts, RR: 44
Reply 8, posted (6 years 1 month 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 12693 times:



Quoting Steman (Reply 3):
The ARJ looks already painfully similar to a DC9/MD80/B717 and one wonders how much the trunkliner program with McDonnel Douglas has to do in the development of this "brand new" airplane.

I believe the simple reason for this is that the ARJ uses the jigs of the MD-80/90, with Boeing's full knowledge. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.


User currently offlineArt From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 3381 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 1 month 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 12645 times:



Quoting Oldeuropean (Reply 2):
Can't wait for the day, in some years to come, a Chinese company will present his new aircraft.
An aircraft called "Stormwind", "Flying Dragon", or something similar.
And they will express how proud the Chinese people is to accomplish the goal to build such a modern airliner, ... and funny ..., it will look like an A320.



Quoting Steman (Reply 3):
The ARJ looks already painfully similar to a DC9/MD80/B717 and one wonders how much the trunkliner program with McDonnel Douglas has to do in the development of this "brand new" airplane.

China already has airliner design capability. Clearly it is not on a par with Airbus or Boeing. Designing a twin apparently based on a 40 year old western design is not going to challenge the western duopoly. Even if the ARJ performs as well as the mad dog, so what? Airlines are keen to dispose of these types ASAP, not to buy them. China is gaining assembly expertise from the A320 venture, not design expertise.

It seems a sensible move to start up assembly in a lower cost area, particularly given the risk of costs in the euro zone continuing to climb relative to costs in the USA. Additionally, locating assembly in China is likely to result in higher A320 orders from China due to domestic assembly.

As I understand the Figaro article, the Hamburg plant has been "copied and pasted" to China and will function identically. What is the capacity of the Hamburg plant? Whatever it is, Airbus should be able to up the production rate far above the 4 pm announced if required. That potential higher production rate looks like a useful facility to me.


User currently offlineL410Turbolet From Czech Republic, joined May 2004, 5684 posts, RR: 19
Reply 10, posted (6 years 1 month 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 12612 times:



Quoting FCKC (Thread starter):
the frame is assembled BUT NOT made in china

"Made in China" will be the Red Mao 320 they will roll out the moment they are finished with reverse engineering the "missing" A320 no one knows where it ended up.


Quoting Steman (Reply 3):
Sometimes I fear that Western Companies, in the attempt to get as much business as possible with China now, are actually digging their own graves.

 checkmark   checkmark   checkmark 


User currently offlineRheinwaldner From Switzerland, joined Jan 2008, 2213 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (6 years 1 month 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 12595 times:



Quoting Oldeuropean (Reply 2):
Can't wait for the day, in some years to come, a Chinese company will present his new aircraft.

If it lags like the ARJ to the DC9 then there is nothing to worry.


User currently offlineB2443 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 703 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 1 month 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 12328 times:



Quoting Oldeuropean (Reply 2):
it will look like an A320



Quoting Steman (Reply 3):
The ARJ looks already painfully similar to

Anything beyond the looks? Of all the 'components', the "looks" perhaps are the easiest part. But please do not insult aerospace engineers by implying a modern aricraft can simply be "copied" at the level of "looks". LOL.


User currently offlineFRNT787 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1319 posts, RR: 15
Reply 13, posted (6 years 1 month 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 10500 times:



Quoting Worldrider (Reply 1):
still a very bad move from airbus, giving away technology and knowledge in exchange of pretty much "nothing".

I agree. I would think it would be better to centralize assembly as much as possible. Boeing, for example, has two final assembly plants to produce their whole product line. Airbus produces the A320 at 3 seperate plants. Maybe this works better for them, I do not know. While they did get a 150 plane order for this plant, and may be given preference to Boeing on future orders, I do not know if it is worth it.



"We have a right to fail, because failure makes us grow" --Glenn Beck
User currently offlineMt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6574 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (6 years 1 month 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 9897 times:
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Hey - it happens with the manufacture of socks, then cars, the computer chips, airplanes will come eventually.

If things would not be sent off shore - then the US and Europe would be making their own socks instead of using resources in higher level activities.



Step into my office, baby
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22731 posts, RR: 20
Reply 15, posted (6 years 1 month 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 9870 times:



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 18):
Hey - it happens with the manufacture of socks, then cars, the computer chips, airplanes will come eventually.

 checkmark  And yet, Ford and GM do well overseas. Why is offshore assembly any different for aircraft manufacturers?



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineAmax1977 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 207 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 1 month 5 days ago) and read 8664 times:

How many jobs will be cut in Europe by outsourcing the A320 assembly to China?

Regards,
Amax

[Edited 2008-06-26 17:21:29]

User currently offlineMarcus From Mexico, joined Apr 2001, 1781 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (6 years 1 month 5 days ago) and read 8575 times:



Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 10):
"missing" A320 no one knows where it ended up.

There is a missing A320?......for real? what happened to it?



Kids!....we are going to the happiest place on earth...TIJUANA! signed: Krusty the Clown
User currently offlineBuzzaway From Belgium, joined Dec 2007, 75 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (6 years 1 month 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 8523 times:



Quoting Amax1977 (Reply 20):
How many jobs will be cut in Europe by outsourcing the A320 assembly to China?

None, since this is purely an increase. European production is ramping up from 32(?) to 36, and with the 4 Chinese aircraft, that will make 40 a month by 2010-2011 I believe.


User currently offlineSpr773 From India, joined Jun 2008, 158 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (6 years 1 month 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 7786 times:



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 4):

If you can't beat them.....join them  Big grin


User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12903 posts, RR: 100
Reply 20, posted (6 years 1 month 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 7401 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting Zvezda (Reply 5):
The A320 is now more than 20 years old -- hardly the latest technology. Assembly of aluminium fuselages will not be important in future airliner manufacturing.

 checkmark 

The need for beer can technology is going to go away.  spit 

Take the ARJ-21. Its tail mounted engines are going to add quite a bit of weight. GE is selling them engines far behind the technology curve.

Is there demand for the A320 now? Yes. But not in ten years. Not for that level of technology.

But I'm biased. My career is R&D.  Wink

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineWarren747sp From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1153 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (6 years 1 month 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 6776 times:

They already know how to build the MD80s in China so how much harder can it be to assemble a A320s.


747SP
User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6483 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (6 years 1 month 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 6643 times:



Quoting Steman (Reply 3):
The ARJ looks already painfully similar to a DC9/MD80/B717 and one wonders how much the trunkliner program with McDonnel Douglas has to do in the development of this "brand new" airplane.



Quoting B2443 (Reply 12):
Anything beyond the looks? Of all the 'components', the "looks" perhaps are the easiest part. But please do not insult aerospace engineers by implying a modern aricraft can simply be "copied" at the level of "looks". LOL.

The ARJ is built in the ex-Trunkliner plant using some of the same tooling. Hence the similarities are more than just skin deep.



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineDavidkunzVIE From Austria, joined Mar 2007, 431 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (6 years 1 month 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 5853 times:



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 4):
If reverse engineerred chinese products have the same quality only then they can be a threat

Yeah, and if they're not of the same quality they'll be giving Airbus a bad name.



DH3 DH4 CR1 CR2 CR7 CR9 F70 732 733 734 73G 738 752 762 763 772 742 743 319 320 321 333 343
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31667 posts, RR: 56
Reply 24, posted (6 years 1 month 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 5359 times:



Quoting DavidkunzVIE (Reply 38):
Yeah, and if they're not of the same quality they'll be giving Airbus a bad name.

Wouldn't Airbus specify the quality control standards  Smile
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
25 Dano1977 : Wasn't the Chinese Y10 Aeroplane supposedly a reversed engineered B707? Its not exactly a carbon copy, but the simularities can be seen.
26 Csturdiv : I do not see this being any different than when I used to work for a small computer company. We were certified by IBM to actually build IBM computers
27 Flighty : Yup. China can and will build good A320s. Their Buick factory has usually been the world's highest quality Buick factory, i.e. it exceeds the U.S. fa
28 Babybus : Somehow I doubt that very much unless they were getting another Ryanair style deal.
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