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767-300ER W/ Winglets To Fly 2nd Week Of July  
User currently offlineIAD787 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 502 posts, RR: 44
Posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 13250 times:

Hey All,

Just did an interview with Joe Clark at Aviation Partners, he let me know that the first 767-300ER with winglets is set to fly between July 8-12th.

Here's my complete piece with a closer look at spiroid wingtip technology. 10% improvement in fuel burn. Take that with a GTF you're looking at 22-25% improvement.

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/fl...piroid-wingtip-technology-the.html

Plus: IAG's Podcast
http://iagblog.podomatic.com/entry/2008-06-25T11_34_15-07_00

Onward,

IAD787


Former FlightBlogger turned Wall Street Journal Aerospace Beat Reporter
30 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAA388 From Puerto Rico, joined Sep 2007, 304 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 13220 times:

an a380 with 18 feet tall winglets would be amazing...
cant wait to see pics of the 767

-max



Flown on A319, A320, A321, A330-200, A340-300, 737-3,5,7,8, 747-400, 757-2,3, 767-300, 777-200
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19789 posts, RR: 59
Reply 2, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 13090 times:

Well I was interested in your article and then I got distracted about the bit about spiroid wingtips.

It's an elegant solution: if wingtips make vortices, which make drag, eliminate the wingtip! Looks funny, though.


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 3, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 13074 times:

From the article...

"The addition of winglets on the 767 are expected to improve fuel burn around 5-7%."..wow.. Wow!

That will make the B767 a very competitive plane and would make the difference between a money-making route and a money-losing route... yes 



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineWithaK From Australia, joined Apr 2007, 255 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 12958 times:

I can't wait to see those wingletted 767's. It should make it an even more graceful aircraft.

I have been trying to get more information on spiroid winglets for a couple of years now and haven't been able to find much. What has been the reason it has taken the spiroid winglet to long to reach its current state of development? Is it moving forward only now because of the increase in fuel prices?

WithaK


User currently offlineAQ737 From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 612 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 12927 times:

Will it fly throughout the AA system or are there specific routes that it will be used on. I'm flying HNL-ORD-CDG in the middle of July and was wondering if I'd have a chance on flying the test plane.

Aq737


User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8955 posts, RR: 60
Reply 6, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 12880 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR



Quoting IAD787 (Thread starter):
Here's my complete piece with a closer look at spiroid wingtip technology.

Well done, sir! Like WithaK, I've been trying to find more detailed info on spiroids for years now, to no avail. Thanks for the great article.

Do you know what airport that Falcon will be flying out of? We need to place some a.net photographers on red alert when the spiroided (you saw the word here first, folks) Falcon takes flight.

2H4



Intentionally Left Blank
User currently offlineEraugrad02 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1227 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 12881 times:

I wonder if DL/AA plan on updating the interiors to 777 style interiors? btw are these interiors lighter weight that the interiors they were built with? That could be another reason to do this if that was the case. Less weight for more cargo or pax.


Desmond MacRae in ILM
User currently offlineUSAFDO From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 443 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 12780 times:

Not sure if I possibly may have missed something, but this is what I read the expected performance improvement is estimated to be...


" The addition of winglets on the 767 are expected to improve fuel burn around 5-7%."


User currently offlineCcrlR From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 2236 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 12716 times:
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Quoting AQ737 (Reply 5):
Will it fly throughout the AA system or are there specific routes that it will be used on. I'm flying HNL-ORD-CDG in the middle of July and was wondering if I'd have a chance on flying the test plane.

Only certain people can fly on experimental aircraft. Once it is in a test phase it is experimental. The FAA has to certify the modification and make sure it is safe for use as a passenger plane before accepting passengers.



"He was right, it is a screaming metal deathtrap!"-Cosmo (from the Fairly Oddparents)
User currently offlinePRAirbus From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2005, 1139 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 12499 times:

AA already upgraded the interior of its 763's to 777 style; partially in Business Class and fwd part of Coach.

User currently offlineAq737 From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 612 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week ago) and read 12233 times:



Quoting CcrlR (Reply 9):

Undestood. I apologize. I misread the article in saying that the aircraft would be in service to test the economics on passenger flights before installing the sets on the rest of the 763 fleet. I knew that it would take longer, so I see that this is a mere testing.

Thank you for the clarification.

Aq737


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 12, posted (6 years 3 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 12192 times:



Quoting AA388 (Reply 1):
an a380 with 18 feet tall winglets

Correction: Wingtip fences.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineSeaBosDca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5527 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (6 years 3 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 12143 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 12):
Correction: Wingtip fences.

No, Clark from APB is talking about the prospect of creating blended winglets for the A380. In the article, he says they would probably be about 18 feet tall.

I don't think an 18-foot winglet on an A380 would look as dramatic as an 11-foot one on a 763ER, which is going to be a dramatic sight.

[Edited 2008-06-26 16:10:06]

User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 14, posted (6 years 3 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 12102 times:



Quoting SeaBosDca (Reply 13):

Oh, I thought you were talking about the wingtip fences that the current 380's have.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineRobK From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 3952 posts, RR: 18
Reply 15, posted (6 years 3 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 11963 times:

What plane is this happening on? Months ago I read that an AA 763ER was supposed to be going to BFI for this fitting and testing but not heard anything since.

 confused 

R


User currently offlineSeaBosDca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5527 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (6 years 3 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 11863 times:



Quoting RobK (Reply 15):
What plane is this happening on?

389/N389AA.


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Photo © Paul Markman



User currently offlineRobK From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 3952 posts, RR: 18
Reply 17, posted (6 years 3 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 11776 times:



Quoting SeaBosDca (Reply 16):
389/N389AA.

Thanks but where? It ain't at BFI.

R


User currently offlineAAH732UAL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (6 years 3 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 11755 times:



Quoting RobK (Reply 17):
Thanks but where? It ain't at BFI.

Prolly in AFW........ Boeing does not have to put the winglets on.

I would betcha 5 to 1 its in AFW an the AA guys are doing it.


User currently offlineBoeing767mech From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1027 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (6 years 3 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 11740 times:



Quoting AAH732UAL (Reply 18):
I would betcha 5 to 1 its in AFW an the AA guys are doing it.

I'll bet you the cost of the winglets that the guys in MCI are putting the winglets on. They are also doing the winglets for the 757's

David



Never under-estimate the predictably of stupidty
User currently offlineKochamLOT From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 301 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (6 years 3 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 11699 times:



Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 3):
That will make the B767 a very competitive plane and would make the difference between a money-making route and a money-losing route...

Boeing is doing somewhat of a 'revamp' or add-on package that would make the 777 more efficient for the older AC.

Would this not be a smart idea to have Boeing find some other ways to make the 767 more efficient;

Add winglets

Replace currrent 763 and 762 windows with those found on the 764

Offer some kind of newer more fuel efficient engine (if thats possible from GE, Rolls, Pratt, etc)

(Im not some wise guy but could it be possible to replace certain parts of the aircraft with lighter weight materials without costing WAY too much money.)

I think the 767 is still an awesome plane and has lots of potential.


User currently offlineKochamLOT From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 301 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (6 years 3 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 11529 times:



Quoting WithaK (Reply 4):
What has been the reason it has taken the spiroid winglet to long to reach its current state of development? Is it moving forward only now because of the increase in fuel prices?

Ive been asking this question a while back on a post regarding the length of time it took to get the 767 winglet fitted and got all sorts of answers


User currently offlineIronDuke08 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 117 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (6 years 3 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 11411 times:



Quoting KochamLOT (Reply 20):
Replace currrent 763 and 762 windows with those found on the 764

I don't understand how that makes the aircraft more efficient. Are the 764/777 windows lighter because their more ovoid shape requires less reinforcement?

I definitely like them from a pax standpoint.


User currently offlineEA772LR From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2836 posts, RR: 10
Reply 23, posted (6 years 3 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 11262 times:

Thanks IAD787 for the always informative posts!  thumbsup  Those spiroid winglets are very odd to say the least, but with the kinds of improvements they're talking about, who cares what they look like. I am very anxious to see a 767 with 11 ft. winglets. I bet it looks just killer, I guess like a larger 757 with winglets. What I really thought was interesting was this:

"We have a plan for the 777. I think you'll be seeing something very shortly," added Clark.

Clark believes that blended winglets will be flying on the 777 within two years.

"We think the 777 will benefit substantially from our technology," Clark speculated. "The 777 is a great airplane and will be around a long, long time. With the advance in aerodynamics we won't really be able to improve the fuel consumption or reduce the drag by as much as some of the other airplanes, but we still think it'll be in the 3-4% range, which is a big number for an airplane like that."


I wonder if Boeing would work with APB on this. Possibly an option on future 777 upgrades...??? If Boeing were to tweak the engines, install some winglets and more aerodynamic improvements, the 77W could really give the 3510 a run for its money on certain routes, and same with the 77L against the proposed 359R.

I'd also really love to see an A380-900 with 18 ft. winglets  Wow! It would look ridiculously good  yes 



We often judge others by their actions, but ourselves by our intentions.
User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8568 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (6 years 3 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 11139 times:



Quoting EA772LR (Reply 23):
Boeing were to tweak the engines, install some winglets and more aerodynamic improvements, the 77W could really give the 3510 a run for its money

?? The 77W already has wingtip devices on it. He merely expressed he would "like to compete with Boeing" on it, suggesting who knows, a 0.5% better performance or so.

I really think his claimed 3-4% improvement refers to early 777-200(ER) without any wingtip devices at all. These would be the likely candidates for the APB upgrades, the many 777-200s already flying, not the newer LRs and 77Ws which already have nice Boeing devices on them.

The speculation about LHR-SYD on 77L relates to the "spiroid" devices, which are not available on anything today and must be considered early stage experimental. Those are for the deep future.


25 Post contains links and images AeroWeanie : Did you ask Joe when he's going to add winglets to his F7F Tigercat? View Large View MediumPhoto © Kevin Whitehead - Jetwash Images
26 EA772LR : Well I was aware of that, and also that the reason Boeing decided to use wingtips instead of winglets on the 777LR family was that the wingtips prove
27 AAH732UAL : Ok that makes perfect sense. Did not even think of MCI. But sorry I can't pay the bet
28 Post contains links DFWEagle : It is indeed Kansas City that is handling the 767 winglet installations. Here is a link to an article that gives a few more details about the project
29 GST : Those winglet designs do look like pure aero nirvana. I'm a strong follower of the "if it looks right it flies right" god, and those do really look th
30 ZK-NBT : NZ have been looking at getting winglets installed on their 5 763s.
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