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Midwest Airlines Seeks 65% Pay Cuts?  
User currently offlineADXMatt From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 950 posts, RR: 2
Posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 8167 times:

Midwest Airlines seeks to cut pay of it's employees by 65%!

Are they on crack? Who would accept their paychecks getting cut 65%? I know some of you will say well you got a job or just quit. Well you will get what you pay for and ticket prices just need to go up to cover the higher fuel prices. Then let supply reduce to the new demand.

Just because expenses keep going up you can't keep taking from the employees. Our bills keep going up too.

http://www.newstin.com/tag/us/64784632

It seeks pay cuts of up to 65%, says overhaul is needed to avert bankruptcy By TOM DAYKIN tdaykin@journalsentinel.com Midwest Airlines plans to cut its fleet by nearly half, lay off hundreds of employees and negotiate pay cuts of up to 65% from union pilots and flight attendants to avoid a Chapter 11 bankruptcy filing, union officials said Wednesday. Photo/Jeffrey Phelps Passengers check in Wednesday at the Midwest Airlines ticket counter at Mitchell International Airport. Like other airlines, the company has been slammed by soaring fuel prices. Midwest Airlines passengers who have bought tickets for trips that later change as a result of the company's restructuring plan have several options, said spokesman Michael Brophy. If there's a schedule or aircraft change, passengers can take the trip if it still fits their plans. If...



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78 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineImapilotaz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 8153 times:

Wow, that cant be a good thing at all for YX. Good thing they got those great CRJ200s flying around out there. Cut half their fleet, and they'll almost have more OO planes than YX planes.

User currently offlineF9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 5025 posts, RR: 28
Reply 2, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 8155 times:

It comes as no surprise here. Midwest is hurting, but who really is not hurting with these high oil prices. Paycuts are gonna happen with any airline right now. An FBO that I work for just cut our pay.... Why? Because of fuel. Demand for fuel at our FBO has dropped like crazy. I could have been angry about the cuts, but I also understand how bad it is right now.

I hope Midwest can avoid bankruptcy. But, if oil stays in the pattern it is in, many will join the bankruptcy band. The government needs to do something to help the airlines right now. They seem to do fine helping Amtrak and other forms of transportation.



I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlineJlbmedia From United States of America, joined Jun 2002, 622 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 8134 times:
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I have used and been a fan of Midwest for years. I really hope the best for them, but at this point, can the employees really think this is better than working for Airtran?


JLB54061
User currently offlineADXMatt From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 950 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 8146 times:



Quoting Jlbmedia (Reply 3):
I really hope the best for them, but at this point, can the employees really think this is better than working for Airtran?

Hindsight is always 20/20


User currently offlineN917ME From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 730 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 7969 times:

Please do not turn this into a FL v YX thread. No one knows what would have happened if the takeover did happen with oil prices this high. So cut the bull.. And let's for once have a YX thread that doesn't include YX haters bringing FL into it. If you want to talk about FL, start a different thread!

User currently offlineADXMatt From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 950 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 7873 times:

I like YX.... They offer a nice product. I haven't flown them in a few years but always enjoyed them. (the full service 717's) I was never on the saver service MD80's

I think YX has serious issues and needs to re-think their business plan. They will not get their employees to accept a 65% pay cut. If they just impose it on them the quality will suffer big time as they try and replace attrition that will soon follow. The quality of their replacements will be sub par at that wage.


User currently offlineChristao17 From Thailand, joined Apr 2005, 940 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 7776 times:



Quoting ADXMatt (Thread starter):
seeks pay cuts of up to 65%,

Great hook for a story, but it doesn't really provide a useful view of what's happening, does it? "Up to 65%" doesn't mean that most of the cuts or even the average cuts will be anywhere near that.

There's a lengthy thread here talking about some of the changes at YX. Difficult times, to be certain, and it will be hard on their staff. But starting a thread with such a statement pretty much blows things out of proportion and doesn't leave much room for a more balanced discussion.



Keeping the "civil" in civil aviation...
User currently offlineAirTran737 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3704 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 7744 times:
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I think YX is screwed. Parking the MD-80's plus five 717's (not confirmed publicly yet) and asking for huge pay cuts shows how bad it is getting at YX. ALPA won't give them the numbers that they want, and if you slash the non-union wages too much you risk alienating those employees. I feel for the employees of YX and their families, I have many friends flying for YX but further consolidation is needed and this could help the industry.


Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
User currently offlineMke717spotter From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 2453 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 7638 times:

Looks like I'll be heading in as one of the strikebreakers pretty soon.


Will you watch the Cleveland Browns and the Detroit Lions on Sunday? Only if coach Eric Mangini resigned after a loss.
User currently offlineUadc8contrail From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1782 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 7598 times:



Quoting Mke717spotter (Reply 9):
Looks like I'll be heading in as one of the strikebreakers pretty soon.

Mike,
might want to edit your profile and take your name out.....it could get ugly if what this thread is about actually happens......i was furloughed back in 1985 at ual when alpa went out on strike and the strike breakers took a bunch of heat and heat was a understatement, i still think some alpa guys carry the "book"



bus driver.......move that bus:)
User currently offlineImperialEagle From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2529 posts, RR: 22
Reply 11, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 7559 times:
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Survival-mode. Desperate times call for desperate measures.
IMO This kind of stuff is going to happen with a lot more carriers in the next few months as the industry re-sets its pay scales and airfares to what it takes to survive----period.
I think as this depression deepens the unions are going to be swept away---unable to have any uasble influence because the depths of the changes are going to be so severe----for everyone----and not just the aviation industry either. I'm talking about nationwide, all income stratae.
All costs of living are going to jump to alarming heights and our wages are going to progressivley decline. This is the stuff the politicians don't have the genitalia to tell us! You won't hear a peep from the Presidential contenders! Fasten your seatbelts!
 twocents 

Best wishes to the folks at YX.
Best wishes to everyone----------- as the airlines try to survive.



"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
User currently offlineQuickmover From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2493 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 7551 times:

YX is trying to avoid ch 11, but if you don't have dip financing, what good is ch11? Cash is the issue right now. Even Frontier hasn't secured financing yet.

User currently offlineMke717spotter From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 2453 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 7524 times:



Quoting Uadc8contrail (Reply 10):

Thanks for the concern, but I'm only 16, so no reason to be alarmed cause I don't think they'd hire me anyways lol. It was merely a bit of a sarcastic remark.



Will you watch the Cleveland Browns and the Detroit Lions on Sunday? Only if coach Eric Mangini resigned after a loss.
User currently offlineJlbmedia From United States of America, joined Jun 2002, 622 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 7485 times:
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Quoting N917ME (Reply 5):
Please do not turn this into a FL v YX thread. No one knows what would have happened if the takeover did happen with oil prices this high. So cut the bull.. And let's for once have a YX thread that doesn't include YX haters bringing FL into it. If you want to talk about FL, start a different thread!

I did not intent to make this a YX vs FL thread. I hope your reference to same dose not precipitate a fulfilment of your self proclaimed prophecy. I am only asking that given what the YX employees have been through and are now facing do they now wish that the airline would have chosen the FL choice rather than the stand alone option. Thanks, John.



JLB54061
User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 7411 times:

65% Paycuts? That's obscene. If YX can't operate unless they bankrupt their own employees, then maybe it's time for them to say goodbye. That's just totally unacceptable, in any situation.

User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25071 posts, RR: 85
Reply 16, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 7397 times:
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Quoting Quickmover (Reply 12):
YX is trying to avoid ch 11, but if you don't have dip financing, what good is ch11? Cash is the issue right now. Even Frontier hasn't secured financing yet.

NWA went into Chapter 11 without DIP and did not arrange any for fifteen months.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineUadc8contrail From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1782 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 7327 times:



Quoting Mke717spotter (Reply 13):
Thanks for the concern, but I'm only 16, so no reason to be alarmed cause I don't think they'd hire me anyways lol. It was merely a bit of a sarcastic remark.

mike,
hey no offense taken coming from a polish kid



bus driver.......move that bus:)
User currently offlineNicoEDDF From Germany, joined Jan 2008, 1099 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 7291 times:



Quoting F9Animal (Reply 2):
The government needs to do something to help the airlines right now. They seem to do fine helping Amtrak and other forms of transportation.

No, it absolutely shouldn't! Government should let fail the airlines with invalid business plan! That only will reduce supply to a point where reasonable fares will commence to cover airline cost!

I dare to say, that a company being so close to bankruptcy in the strongest air traffic market of the world just because one parameter of business changed, has an invalid business plan anyway. I know fuel has a huge impact but many airlines show how to be successful even in that environment.

Hence, accept the victims and restructure the whole business. If job losses are the case, well, then that is free economy.
Germany had a point few years ago when automobile industrie had to quit 100.000 (!!!) employees and close down several factories because the industry in this state was not competitive.
Maybe its the point for (some) US Airlines to got the same way.

Maybe


User currently offlineMikey711MN From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1397 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 7079 times:



Quoting NicoEDDF (Reply 18):
No, it absolutely shouldn't! Government should let fail the airlines with invalid business plan! That only will reduce supply to a point where reasonable fares will commence to cover airline cost!

Typically, I'd agree with you on this, but I see two problems with it.
1. The price at which airlines would need to sell seats to make money will invariably diminish demand.
2. That diminished demand, e.g. business and leisure travel, residually impacts the viability of business from which the government earns their revenue.

In other words, the government stands to effectively lose revenue as businesses reliant on travel--either directly (e.g. tourism, shipping) or indirectly (e.g. meetings, exchanges, deal-making, project execution)--begin to fail. As such, it is in their(/our?) best interest to add investment into the system to protect that revenue stream.

Be that as it may, the execution or application of such investment is subject to heavy debate. I will certain concede that, and if I had the answers, I'd be paid tons more than I do and I'd be giving speeches around the country/world instead of reading a.net on a Friday morning.  Wink

But to myopically take the stance that "let failed businesses fail" in this industry--the movement of goods and services that facilitates capital and investment--is oversimplifying a bit.

That said, I tend to encompass the airline industry as simply a subset of transportation--and likewise, YX as a subset of the airline industry--which serves as the arteries that economically drive the country. I would also disagree ever so slightly that America may not be the "strongest air traffic market of the world", but more generally, it's the strongest transportation market of the world. Air traffic, as a component of moving goods and services within its borders, however, may not be as strong in the current and foreseeable business climate. The free market, then, will determine the veracity of other modes to compensate, e.g. rail, roadway, electronic, etc. for the inability to move said goods and services. And as such, companies like YX are wont to struggle.

-Mike



I plan on living forever. So far, so good...
User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 7048 times:

I love YX, but unfortunately, I think they are gone by the end of the year. F9 will probably join them. This is part of the process unfortunately. Probably YX did FL a favor by refusing their offer as FL woudl be running short on cash now.

User currently offlineMOBflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1209 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 6996 times:



Quoting F9Animal (Reply 2):
The government needs to do something to help the airlines right now.

No they don't. They need to do something to curb artificial inflation of oil prices (i.e. excessive speculation). But airlines don't need a welfare check. Nor does Amtrack, IMO.


User currently offlineBoeing12345 From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 112 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 6998 times:

Wonder why Tim H. and some of his staff have not offered to decline their salary or any bonus offers for the remainder of the year? The top two guys of another airline recently announced just that. I would think with their pockets lined after the sale they could afford to do this, plus this type of action goes a long way when trying to get employees to take concessions.

User currently offlineMauiman31 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 450 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 6980 times:
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Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 20):
I love YX

Me too. Just wish the best for all YX employees. . .
Sad for them. Sad for the cities they serve, particularly MCI -- big loss for us if they drastically downsize or fold. . .


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21500 posts, RR: 60
Reply 24, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 6980 times:



Quoting ADXMatt (Thread starter):
It seeks pay cuts of up to 65%

Doesn't say which unlucky bastard is the one getting his/her pay cut 65%, but surely not everyone.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 15):
65% Paycuts? That's obscene.

What if its the CEO getting cut 65%, and only the CEO. Is it obscene then?  Wink



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
25 TVNWZ : I believe the 65% would be a scenerio where a captain would move down to first officer coupled with any wage reduction. If 65% is obscene what would
26 LAXintl : At the end of the day, the union either can; 1) Reach a consensual deal with the company on pay/benefits that goes some ways to the savings the compan
27 N917ME : I have a very strong feeling it will be #2.
28 Chris133 : Unfortunatly, I have a feeling that they may not make it until the end of the month. My best wishes to the Employees and their families.
29 JBo : That's Monday. Aren't you being a little dramatic with that statement?
30 Tsra : This shows the type of person Timmy and his cookie monsters truly are. Unfortunately, from what I hear, no one at YX trusts any contribution Timmy ha
31 JBo : From the internal memo: Take that as you will.
32 Chris133 : Well for the employee's sake i hope so.
33 SkyguyB727 : It's not only obscene, it may put them in violation of the minimum wage laws. Unless they've drastically increased their wages in the past decade, th
34 FWAERJ : 65% pay cuts for pilots on top of concessions? Let's see... the article says that a YX junior captain now gets paid about $120K/yr. Then, the junior c
35 TVNWZ : But they will be paid a lot more than a beer taste-tester for Schlitz, Pabst, Blatz..
36 2175301 : Actually, I don't think your option 2 even exist. I think the real options are: 1) Reach a deal now. 2) Be unemployed in less than 6 weeks (and most
37 Alias1024 : Except that nearly half of the pilots are going to get furloughed anyway. So they will probably vote no. Now think of the guys who are going from $12
38 N917ME : I agree! Pay cuts are not a good thing, however, for a someone in the industry, who really does enjoy and wants to stay in the industy, it is somethi
39 N917ME : And for those who get furloughed and vote NO.. may then not get called back when/if things get better. Knowing you are going to get furloughed, and t
40 ADXMatt : I disagree.... Take huge pay cuts now and be part of the working poor may be worse then just pulling the "band aid" off rather quickly. This way you
41 MKENut : Very good post. Look at it as one door closing and another one opening up for a chance at a better career. I was laid off in my late 20's and I didn'
42 Ikramerica : But you drive pay down that way, because you are willing to work for little because you "like your job." And as long as people are willing to work fo
43 Boeing12345 : I know what was in the memo I read it myself, thank you. Read my post again I didn't say anything about Tim and staff giving up a percentage of their
44 Boeing12345 : I have to agree with you, could not have said it any better myself.
45 Flybyguy : Ha... I think the government should let every non-viable airline fail. It will be rough now but it will allow more dynamic companies to take their pl
46 2175301 : I doubt that more than a few employees would see the 65% - and only those who step down from one position to another as is their right under seniority
47 CitrusCritter : The truth is that FL lucked out on that deal. If the acquisition had gone through, the entire company would be buried under the finance costs and pro
48 Alias1024 : What's the point in having recall rights if the job isn't worth it anymore? You vote NO so that if your number comes up and you get recalled, it's ac
49 Jeb94 : Lets face it, Midwest has been in a slow downward spiral since before Sept 11, 2001. 9/11 hurt badly as it hurt every other airline. Midwest needed to
50 UAL757 : Oh NO! This is terrible news. I wish the best for everyone at YX! YX is truly an amazing airline.
51 AirCop : Okay I'll bite, what does a Captain/FO at YX make? I guessing it's not the obscene rate that some of the 777 captains are making?
52 Post contains links Alias1024 : http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/a...es/major-national-lcc/midwest.html
53 Ikramerica : So a five year Captain makes $84k minimum with 145 days off a year, minimum. That's the equavilent of weekends + 8 weeks vacation time for a 9-5 style
54 TVNWZ : Sounds good. So, who wants to list the jobs/professions that are actually adding employees and pay comparable YX pilot or first officer wages? I do n
55 Ikramerica : This website is very enlightening. It clearly shows that when people on a.net talk of a "first year FO" making "X" amount it is almost always a red-h
56 Alias1024 : You are comparing apples and oranges. For example, last week I had a day where I was on duty for 11:26, but was only paid 6:38 of credit. The 9-5 guy
57 Avek00 : No, they're not. F9 and YX may attempt further brutal cuts in futile last-ditch efforts to save themselves, but labor at the legacies won't stand for
58 RJNUT : right on , brutha!! the days of brutal paycuts is already over..When people on here post about the inevitability of additional pay cuts and how "they
59 2175301 : I believe you are under a very big misconception about normal people who nominally have a 8 hour a day job. Typically by the time someone starts earn
60 Alias1024 : I am under no illusions that salaried employees often put in more than 40 hours per week. The salary system simply puts on the employee the responsib
61 2175301 : Actually, I think you are under an illusion. I would point out that the salaries involved for these "regular jobs" are often far less than what are b
62 Jeb94 : The problem with getting back to the original core constituency of business folks is that many simply don't fly on airliners anymore. With the fallout
63 TVNWZ : This is the biggest mistake most people make in computing pilot/fa pay. You are not an hourly employee per se. You are paid on a formula agreed to by
64 Lono : Hold on a minute.... Doesn't NW own a big part of Midwest...??? And what does it mean to the NW/DL merger...???? After the merger what were the plans
65 Frontierflyer : You got that right. Technology has really enabled us to stay put not have to put up with the hassles of travel. I traveled 36 times a year, now 4 tim
66 AirTran737 : I see YX ending up as a Delta Connection carrier and nothing more. They should consider themselves lucky if that happens.
67 Avek00 : 1. Yes. 2. Not much -- the government will take a look at the possible antitrust consequences of continued ownership of YX, but not much should come
68 JBo : I would think that the DOJ investigation of the Northwest/Delta merger includes the stake in YX. Currently, Northwest is a passive investor in Midwes
69 N917ME : NW/DL have stated that YX will remain as is. There are no plans to absorb YX or use them as Delta Connection. 2175301....I can so relate! What is an 8
70 Northwestair : You still find ways to get by. You change yor spending habits. It worked for me whenI left NWA making over $50,000.00 a year and went to CO making jus
71 Alias1024 : Believe what you want. I noticed you mentioned what time you got home at night, but didn't mention what time you go to work. All you said was that yo
72 N917ME : Trust me, the grass is not always greener on the other side. Been there and done that 3 times now. I regret lever leaving my job I had 10 years ago..
73 Avek00 : Personally, I think it's all for naught, and Midwest will be dead and gone by next spring at the very latest barring some unlikely last-minute "rescu
74 2175301 : I stand by my statement: In the Midwest region (in which I live) - Jobs that make $40,000 per year with benifits are in the extreem minority. Most of
75 Post contains links Mke717spotter : http://www.jsonline.com/watch/?watch=1&date=7/2/2008&id=42582 WEDNESDAY, July 2, 2008, 11:43 a.m. By Tom Daykin Midwest Airlines CEO to take pay cut M
76 Post contains links Knope2001 : A different report (this one from the Milwaukee Business Journal) based on the same memo details why the pilot and F/A cuts are more severe: http://ww
77 Mikey711MN : Given that the title of the thread suggests 65% pay cuts for some of the rank and file by comparison, I'm sure more than enough folks will. -Mike
78 Mke717spotter : Well the article says that it would be somewhere between 45-65% so it may not be as severe as it seems.
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