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Orlando Sentinel: Cuts Hit MCO Hard  
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32787 posts, RR: 72
Posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 6401 times:

Great cover story in Sunday's Orlando Sentinel on how hard hit Orlando is from the cuts. Orlando is a city very dependent on air flights to bring in tourists, but, along with places like Las Vegas and most of Florida, it's where airlines have been cutting first.

MCO will probably be fine in the end, but it will be a rough year.

With the cuts, MCO might also lose it's status as busiest airport in Florida, in terms of passengers. In October 2008, MIA will have more daily seats than MCO for the first time in three yeras. MCO capacity is down 11.6%. Miami capacity is pretty much untouched (down 0.2%; and that's before the AA increases that were loaded yesterday and today, which brings total capacity up).


a.
38 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16870 posts, RR: 51
Reply 1, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 6290 times:

I was reading recently on how Las Vegas and Walt Disney World / Central Florida tourism folks took two different paths in recent years, Las Vegas has been investing heavily and promoting high end luxury offerings/vacations. Disney in recent years has been investing in affordable accommodations and heavily promoting affordable one week family vacations (probably seen the commercial a million times around here).

The point was that Disney's plan was much smarter, and that they are better positioned to ride out the current economic slow down. Flying might drop some, although the abundance of low fare options at MCO and Allegiant at Sanford will help. However most folks from the Northeast US where they get a huge chunk of their business will still come to the Central Florida parks, although they may be more likely to drive or take Amtrak (Silver Services/ Auto Train).

Las Vegas on the other hand is much more dependent on vacationers arriving by air, while the LA basin is within driving distance Central Florida has much better highway access to more places. Folks from the Mid-West might not be willing to drive 20 hours across the plains and Deserts of the Southwest while Northeasterners have no problems driving 20 hours down I-95.

To summarize while air traffic at MCO might drop, overall park attendance in Central Florida is expected to remain strong.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32787 posts, RR: 72
Reply 2, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 6281 times:



Quoting STT757 (Reply 1):
overall park attendance in Central Florida is expected to remain strong.

I agree. I don't think Disney will be hit that hard. Also, many of the air links that have been lost are to secondary markets in the Southern U.S. that are easily within one day's driving distance on two tanks of gasoline (still expensive to fill two tanks of gas, but cheaper than flying a family of four).



a.
User currently offline727LOVER From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 6437 posts, RR: 17
Reply 3, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 6256 times:

Is there a link to this story?

I still never understood how MCO beats MIA in pax. I guess I'm forgetting to count all the cargo stuff I see in MIA


It would be interesting to see a breakdown of each airport's pax flights....(HINT,HINT,HINT)... wink 



Listen Betty, don't start up with your 'White Zone' s*** again.
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32787 posts, RR: 72
Reply 4, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 6252 times:



Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 3):
Is there a link to this story?

Yes, sorry:

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/bus...ation/2008/06/traveling-to-an.html

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 3):

I still never understood how MCO beats MIA in pax.

Fort Lauderdale and West Palm Beach.



a.
User currently offline727LOVER From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 6437 posts, RR: 17
Reply 5, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 6219 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 4):
Fort Lauderdale and West Palm Beach.

Confused.  Confused You're talking about bleed factor?

If PBI bleeds from MIA, wouldn't TPA bleed enough from MCO? Although, when I check fares from both, MCO usually is much cheaper.



Listen Betty, don't start up with your 'White Zone' s*** again.
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32787 posts, RR: 72
Reply 6, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 6151 times:



Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 5):
Confused. Confused You're talking about bleed factor?

Yes. FLL is the primary domestic O&D airport for all of South Florida. It steals domestic traffic from Miami and West Palm Beach.

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 5):

If PBI bleeds from MIA, wouldn't TPA bleed enough from MCO?

Not necessarily. People in Broward county use both FLL and PBI; people in Miami-Dade use both MIA and FLL. Everybody tends to use MIA for international long-haul service, even people in Palm Beach County. Plus all three airports are connected by commuter rail that makes getting to/between them fairly easy.



a.
User currently offlineDeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8902 posts, RR: 12
Reply 7, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 6130 times:

If you're going to the north part of Miami-Dade County, FLL is just as convinient as MIA. I've gone to the Sunny Isles Beach/Bal Harbour part of Miami a few times and it's just as easy to use FLL as it is to go to MIA. Combine that with the accessibility of LCCs at FLL (NK, WN and B6 all have large operations) and it's not a real surprise that FLL is quite busy.

As for LAS, one of its biggest markets is the SoCal crowd, which will often drive - Interstate 15 from California can be absolutely jammed on Friday nights coming into Southern Nevada. It's amazing when I'm in Vegas for a weekend versus being their on weekdays - on weekends, it seems like half of Southern California is in town. The difference is that MCO, you don't have such a small area making up so much of the tourism base - with MCO, it's pretty well-spread throughout the area East of the Mississippi River.


User currently offlineThreeIfByAir From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 676 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 5926 times:

Orlando should also benefit from European tourists who can benefit from the beneficial exchange rate. Are European carriers reducing Orlando services at all?

Along the same lines, perhaps some Americans will take domestic vacations rather than foreign ones due to poor exchage rates, passport hassles, and higher fares. That being said, I'm not sure that Italy or France is a close substitute for Disney World...


User currently offlinePanAm330 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2679 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5811 times:

I may start a separate thread about MCO cuts, outlining cuts for everyone. Here's what I've found so far, comparing July 14 to December 8, both Mondays:

AA:
LGA: 3x (M80) >> Route Cut
**ORD: 4x (3 M80/1 757) >> 5x (M80)

UA/Ted:
ORD: 6x (320) >> 5x (320)
IAD: 7x (320) >> 5x (320)
DEN: 5x (320) >> 3x (320)

NW:
**MSP: 3x (752) >> 4x (2 320/2 752)

CO/COex:
CLE: 5x (1 735/2 733/ 2 738) >> 3x (2 733/1 73G)
IAH: 8x (1 ERJ/1 735/1 738/1 739/1 752/3 753) >> 6x (1 735/ 5 738)

DL/DLConn (hubs only):
ATL: 15x (1 CRJ/1 M80/9 752/4 763) >> 14x (8 752/5 763/1 764)
CVG: 4x (738) >> 3x (738)
SLC: 2x (752) >> 1x (738)

US:
**CLT: 8x (1 320/1 321/6 752) >> 9x (1 320/1 321/1 734/6 752)
PHL: 8x (3 734/5 752) >> 7x (2 734/5 752)
LAS: 2x (2 320) >> 1x (1 320)


**Asterisks denote additions, not cuts.


User currently offlineOOer From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1466 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5768 times:

Most cuts at OIA are a result of airlines cutting back on RJ service, mostly on behalf of DL.
The airlines are finally waking up and passing along the costs to the consumers instead of taking it out of the pockets of the employees. the domestic capacity will be down about 10% between all legacy carriers this fall which will mean that Bubba and Sue will no longer be able to fly, they will simply have to go to Kmart and buy an inflatable pool to put outside of their double-wide for next summer!


User currently offlineCAL764 From United States of America, joined May 2008, 377 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5746 times:

I must say, a good article with good graphics, too...not a bad job journalism-wise.


1. Fly to Win 2. Fund Future 3. Reliability 4. Work Together CO: Work Hard, Fly Right...
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32787 posts, RR: 72
Reply 12, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 5459 times:



Quoting OOer (Reply 10):
Most cuts at OIA are a result of airlines cutting back on RJ service, mostly on behalf of DL.

AA capacity is down nearly 19% and CO is down more than 25%. With the exception of one lonely CO RJ to IAH - it's all mainline.



a.
User currently offlinePhatfarmlines From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1358 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 5422 times:



Quoting PanAm330 (Reply 9):
I may start a separate thread about MCO cuts, outlining cuts for everyone. Here's what I've found so far, comparing July 14 to December 8, both Mondays:

FYI....comparing summer schedules to winter schedules is not a good comparison. Two different traveling seasons in Florida during that period. Perhaps comparing last winter to this upcoming winter will get a clearer picture of what will really affect the demand for that period.


User currently offlineSK601 From Belgium, joined Jun 2005, 976 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 5360 times:



Quoting ThreeIfByAir (Reply 8):
Are European carriers reducing Orlando services at all?

MP will stop all flights to MCO.


User currently offlineBeertrucker From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 403 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 5347 times:

I will add this as well. Fouth of july is coming. And I will say without question the parks are doing just fine. I work for Disney as a bus driver. The parks are doing good for the summer months.


Fly HI
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32787 posts, RR: 72
Reply 16, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 5335 times:



Quoting SK601 (Reply 14):

Quoting ThreeIfByAir (Reply 8):
Are European carriers reducing Orlando services at all?

MP will stop all flights to MCO.

They already did.

Lufthansa will add two flights a week, though.



a.
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 17, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 5254 times:

Wow, I remember not too long in the distant past, the hustle and bustle of airside 4 with Delta's
ops. All those lime green 757's, twice daily (certain times of the year) T7's, and a whole bunch of CRJ's and ERJ's.



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineNASCARAirforce From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3178 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 3613 times:



Quoting SK601 (Reply 14):
MP will stop all flights to MCO.

MP stopped flying here back in April

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 16):
Lufthansa will add two flights a week, though.

2 flights a week? Lufthansa flies here 6x a week

We just added Air Comet last night 1X a week to Spain with A310s

Air France will be starting A320 service once a week to Guadalupe

Aeromexico charters start next weekend for next two months with 12-15 flights on Saturdays to various cities in Mexico.


User currently offlinePanAm330 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2679 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 3467 times:



Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 18):
2 flights a week? Lufthansa flies here 6x a week

They'll be adding another 2x, apparently. Not that hard to understand.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32787 posts, RR: 72
Reply 20, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 3206 times:



Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 18):

Air France will be starting A320 service once a week to Guadalupe

It's a special one-off service for five weeks.



a.
User currently offlineBongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3589 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2972 times:



Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 3):
I still never understood how MCO beats MIA in pax. I guess I'm forgetting to count all the cargo stuff I see in MIA

Simple answer "The Mouse"

As one example look at the number of VS 744's disgorging their cargos of Brits every day.


User currently offlineSxf24 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1262 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2907 times:



Quoting PanAm330 (Reply 9):
ATL: 15x (1 CRJ/1 M80/9 752/4 763) >> 14x (8 752/5 763/1 764)

This is actually a capacity increase.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32787 posts, RR: 72
Reply 23, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2852 times:

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 21):
Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 3):
I still never understood how MCO beats MIA in pax. I guess I'm forgetting to count all the cargo stuff I see in MIA

Simple answer "The Mouse"

That's not the answer at all. Miami is a larger O&D market - both domestic and international. Miami has two large airports, plus West Palm Beach. Both MIA and FLL are among the country's 25 busiest and the world's 60 busiest airports. Fort Lauderdale sees more international traffic than Orlando, even with all those 747s full of British tourists.

The simple answer is that for years MIA had struggled to gain new service as airlines added at FLL and MCO. The irony is that now that the industry is in crisis, MIA isn't losing much service.

[Edited 2008-06-30 11:30:52]


a.
User currently offlineGkirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24936 posts, RR: 56
Reply 24, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2779 times:



Quoting ThreeIfByAir (Reply 8):
Are European carriers reducing Orlando services at all?

Dunno, but if the UK charters went to MCO, instead of SFB, then MCO's pax figures would be well up.



When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
25 PanAm330 : But they won't, because of the fees MCO charges. There's a reason FI went to SFB after being at MCO for so long. VS, LH and BA operate to MCO obvious
26 GSPSPOT : While I agree with the concept of the above, I think it could be put more tactfully. Remember, it was the airlines that catered to this crowd and cut
27 Ikramerica : Yep, a cut in CRJ and MD80 flying, an increase in high density 767 flying for efficiency, and likely picking up connecting pax that are funneled thro
28 Bongodog1964 : Of course "The Mouse" is the answer to MCO having higher passenger numbers than MIA. MCO isn't a hub, it doesn't have any other compelling reason for
29 MAH4546 : The Mouse is the answer as to why MCO has so many passengers, of course. It is not the answer as to why it has more passengers than MIA.
30 Usairways85 : was there a reason you left out EWR?
31 PanAm330 : If you read my post correctly, it was for additions and cuts of service. EWR didn't change (aside from equipment).
32 Hiflyer : A big reason is the MIA has more than one long stretch of pavement....Intl carriers shy away from single runway operations if they can as it can incr
33 Ikramerica : Doing the math, there is effectively no capacity cut on DL to their hubs. The difference is 14 total seats, but that depends on which type of 752 the
34 FLALEFTY : Hi, Hiflyer! MCO has two, 12K by 200 ft. (18R/36L and 18L/36R) runways with 1K ft. runoff areas at each end. They are even long enough to be an offic
35 MoMan : There is some bleed traffic but it's actually less now than it was in the past. Gasoline prices and the prices to stay in hotels for early AM flights
36 MAH4546 : They did in the 1990s, but they lost all the strides they made. While Lufthansa and Aer Lingus are welcome additions - and prooving strong players in
37 PanAm330 : I disagree. DAB and MLB have much less service than SFB. DAB will have two airlines, and 9 daily flights this September. Can't cut much more than tha
38 Usairways85 : Thats what i figured but i just wanted to clarify
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