PanAm330 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2601 posts, RR: 10 Posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5143 times:
It's not in the schedules any longer while checking in December. What a huge shame. We still have 1x JFK, if that can even be considered a bright spot anymore. I hope that the schedule load is incomplete, and it just hasn't been reentered, but I'm not going to hold my breath.
STT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16261 posts, RR: 52 Reply 2, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5141 times:
AA should beef up JFK-MCO, at the least 3-4 daily 757s.
PanAm330 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2601 posts, RR: 10 Reply 4, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5135 times:
This I noticed as well. I'm thinking their entertainment contracts are keeping this one alive.
I'm not surprised about the cuts given the current environment, but AA has absolutely slaughtered MCO ops, and it's just very sad. We've lost SJU, A300 service to MIA, and now LGA.
727LOVER From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5722 posts, RR: 20 Reply 5, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5102 times:
Quoting PanAm330 (Reply 4):
I'm not surprised about the cuts given the current environment, but AA has absolutely slaughtered MCO ops, and it's just very sad. We've lost SJU, A300 service to MIA, and now LGA.
Indeed, but AA is not alone. All the "Big 6" and Southwest have each cut capacity to MCO this upcoming winter by more than 8.5%.
727LOVER From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5722 posts, RR: 20 Reply 7, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5031 times:
I know the thread is about MCO-LGA
B U T
since LAX was brought up:
Why are there 3 airlines flying MCO-LAX and only 1 flying TPA-LAX?
Is there that much tourist traffic between Orlando & Los Angeles with both areas having Sea World, Disney, and Universal? Why would people fly across the country when the coul go right down the street or freeway to San Diego?
Isn't Tampa Bay market bigger? (leaving out the tourists)
Actually, I only found out AA was flying MCO-LAX a few weeks ago, when did they start?
MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31118 posts, RR: 73 Reply 8, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5000 times:
Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 7): Actually, I only found out AA was flying MCO-LAX a few weeks ago, when did they start?
Quite a long time. Since the 1990s.
Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 7): Isn't Tampa Bay market bigger? (leaving out the tourists)
Leaving out the tourists? Maybe, who knows. There is still decent business demand between Orlando and L.A. thanks to the theme parks, although Orlando's movie industry is now non-existent (it was very strong in the 1990s).
Lambert747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 9, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4971 times:
Quoting PanAm330 (Thread starter): It's not in the schedules any longer while checking in December. What a huge shame. We still have 1x JFK, if that can even be considered a bright spot anymore. I hope that the schedule load is incomplete, and it just hasn't been reentered, but I'm not going to hold my breath.
American Airlines is focusing its market presence on JFK. As Continental Airlines does with Newark. American Airlines is doing what it can to survive. If the flights from JFK suffice the demand in the market, then American Airlines is making a very good decision with the LGA draw-down.
DeltAirlines From United States of America, joined exactly 14 years ago today! , 8771 posts, RR: 13 Reply 10, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4961 times:
Quoting STT757 (Reply 2): AA should beef up JFK-MCO, at the least 3-4 daily 757s.
That might be an even tougher market to crack, given that B6 alone has around 10 daily A320s heading down to MCO each day, plus another 4 DL 737s/757s.
As for LAX, I'm a bit surprised that it's staying as well. The Disney travel contract is with United (a major part of the reason why MCO-LAX is on a mainline 757, given that Disney does buy a decent amount of paid premium cabin traffic. Between UA and DL (which I believe is down to a daily 737-800, down from 2x 757-200s a couple of years ago), I would have thought AA would have discontinued this and routed any passengers via MIA or DFW.
Lambert747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 11, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4951 times:
Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 10):
As for LAX, I'm a bit surprised that it's staying as well. The Disney travel contract is with United (a major part of the reason why MCO-LAX is on a mainline 757, given that Disney does buy a decent amount of paid premium cabin traffic. Between UA and DL (which I believe is down to a daily 737-800, down from 2x 757-200s a couple of years ago), I would have thought AA would have discontinued this and routed any passengers via MIA or DFW.
There are more corporate contracts between Los Angeles and Orlando besides Disney
PanAm330 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2601 posts, RR: 10 Reply 12, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4723 times:
Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 10): DL (which I believe is down to a daily 737-800, down from 2x 757-200s a couple of years ago
2x 738s right now. Not a big change in capacity at all, really.
Tommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6173 posts, RR: 9 Reply 13, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4710 times:
A real shame by AA. I flew this route last august on a 757 and was upgraded to F. Service was very good (I also flew the return.) I think the flight crews were DFW based and the 757 typically routed MCO-LGA-MCO-DFW and then somewhere else beyond I'm sure. IIRC, both 757 flights were pretty full, yields must have been poor (B6 dominates this market hand in hand as we all know.)
As a side note, back in 2003 I flew JFK-MCO on the 757. Both flights were also very full. The route was canned later that year, and just recently brought back.
BTW: what is AA going to do with all of these LGA slots that they are dropping between mainline and eagle? Last year it seemed that they had a great presence at LGA.
"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
HPAEAA From United States of America, joined May 2006, 1020 posts, RR: 2 Reply 14, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4612 times:
Quoting Tommy767 (Reply 13): BTW: what is AA going to do with all of these LGA slots that they are dropping between mainline and eagle? Last year it seemed that they had a great presence at LGA.
I believe they are being returned to the FAA with an agreement that they will not be redeployed.. it's being touted as a step to reduce the cronic congestion at LGA - from the FAA quotes in the press it sounded like this might be the first round of cuts by carriers at LGA with other airlines soon following AA's lead...
WorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 15, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4597 times:
there is no agreement that the slots will not be redeployed. That is what AA wants but I don't believe there is an agreement to that effect.
AA historically has not had a presence in LGA-Florida. DL has long had a strong presencein NE-Florida markets. AA entered the market surprisingly about the time DL started aggressively expanding its service to Latin America. DL is still in Latin America; AA has pulled out of most of the domestic markets it entered.
LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22055 posts, RR: 51 Reply 16, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4595 times:
Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 10): Disney travel contract is with United (a major part of the reason why MCO-LAX is on a mainline 757, given that Disney does buy a decent amount of paid premium cabin traffic
And is the only reason why LAX-MCO never went to TED and remained on 2 class 319-320-757s these last few years.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
The only LaGuardia-Florida service left on AA are Miami and West Palm Beach.
I am not in the travel industry nor do I have any statistical data here, but I would have thought that there would be more traffic on LGA/MCO than LGA/PBI. Is it that the yields are much higher on the LGA/PBI route ?
MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31118 posts, RR: 73 Reply 18, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4521 times:
Quoting AirJamaica (Reply 17): but I would have thought that there would be more traffic on LGA/MCO than LGA/PBI. I
There probably is airport only; though South Florida-New York City is bigger than Orlando-New York City. SFL-NYC often competes with HNL-OGG and LA-SF as the most traveled air route in the entire country.
Quoting AirJamaica (Reply 17): Is it that the yields are much higher on the LGA/PBI route ?
MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31118 posts, RR: 73 Reply 19, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4513 times:
Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 15):
AA historically has not had a presence in LGA-Florida. DL has long had a strong presencein NE-Florida markets. AA entered the market surprisingly about the time DL started aggressively expanding its service to Latin America. DL is still in Latin America; AA has pulled out of most of the domestic markets it entered.
Oh yes, Delta is awesome, thanks for the reminder.
It's not as if Delta hasn't pulled out of LGA-SRQ, LGA-MIA, JFK-PBI, and LGA-DAB in the past year, to name a few cut Northeast-Florida routes.
Fleet Service From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 622 posts, RR: 2 Reply 20, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4459 times:
According to our GM at LGA, AA is requesting those slots be retired.There is no point in handing them back to the government in the name of reducing congestion at LGA only to have them doled out to another carrier and ending up with zero decrease in traffic at the airport.
Yes, I actually *do* work for an airline,how about you?
Corinthians From United States of America, joined May 2008, 274 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 4328 times:
Quoting HPAEAA (Reply 14): I believe they are being returned to the FAA with an agreement that they will not be redeployed.. it's being touted as a step to reduce the cronic congestion at LGA - from the FAA quotes in the press it sounded like this might be the first round of cuts by carriers at LGA with other airlines soon following AA's lead...
LGA is already capped at 75 movements per hour. The DOT hasn't made any proposals to reduce that number. Their latest idea is to take away some existing slots from the airlines and auction them off, but not reduce the overall number of flights. Besides, LGA has lost traffic for the last two years. This year has especially been bad. Even if the DOT doesn't step in again, delays won't be as bad because airlines are already cutting flights because of the bad economy.
Ckfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 4657 posts, RR: 1 Reply 22, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4280 times:
I'm always surprised that people think MCO is a leisure destination. Yes, vacationers, particuarly families with young children, flock to Disney World, Universal Studios, and Sea World.
Yet, the three top cities for conventions, based on the number of conventions and number of attendees, are Chicago, Las Vegas, and Orlando, and Chicage has been losing conventions to Orland and Vegas because of union work rules, as well as Vegas and Orlando expanding their convention halls and Vegas always increasing the number of hotel rooms.
For every family that is watching every last penny they spend in Orlando, there is a convention attendee on an expense account.
It seems to me that this works to Chicago's benefit, becasue convention attendees will still be able to get there from here. But, I get the feeling that the airlines don't always understand who are booking tickets to so-called "leisure destinations."
MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31118 posts, RR: 73 Reply 23, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4248 times:
Quoting Ckfred (Reply 22): Yet, the three top cities for conventions, based on the number of conventions and number of attendees, are Chicago, Las Vegas, and Orlando, and Chicage has been losing conventions to Orland and Vegas because of union work rules, as well as Vegas and Orlando expanding their convention halls and Vegas always increasing the number of hotel rooms.
Convention traffic is marginally profitable. The tickets are bought typically in bulk and discount. Nothing very special about it.
FlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 6520 posts, RR: 11 Reply 24, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 4202 times:
Quoting PanAm330 (Reply 4): This I noticed as well. I'm thinking their entertainment contracts are keeping this one alive.
I'm not surprised about the cuts given the current environment, but AA has absolutely slaughtered MCO ops, and it's just very sad. We've lost SJU, A300 service to MIA, and now LGA.
Doing what they can to stay solvent. I honestly feel that a lot of cuts and trimming that airlines are going through right now is temporary. Not temporary in, they'll be back next year but temporary--whenever the industry picks up again, we may see demand increase, fares increase, and frequencies returning.
Quoting AirJamaica (Reply 17): I am not in the travel industry nor do I have any statistical data here, but I would have thought that there would be more traffic on LGA/MCO than LGA/PBI. Is it that the yields are much higher on the LGA/PBI route ?
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 18): Yes; and there is steady F demand.
True. Fares into West Palm are historically higher than MCO/FLL.
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 23):
Convention traffic is marginally profitable. The tickets are bought typically in bulk and discount. Nothing very special about it.
I suppose his only point was to prove that traffic into Orlando isn't only for leisure.
CAM2:"Lightning coming out of that one." CAM1: "What?"
25 KFLLSpotter: FL still is. I work for FL out of MCO and we have a 1x daily flight to LGA...
26 ConcordeBoy: Sao Filipe to New York, cher? *tisk tisk tisk* ...methinks you mean MFW? (stares at Mark in shock ) MAH beat me to it, but convention traffic may as
27 MAH4546: True, but to an airline there isn't much difference between convention and leisure traffic. Sold early, in bulk, and at poor yields.
28 727LOVER: Not to mention, an entire hub, and oh yeah, who was the competion? Also who successfully raided DL on ATL-LGA?
30 Pgtravel: My better half works for Disney and even though the contract is with UA, she rarely has trouble justifying AA due to flight times. On the eastbound,
31 AAJFKSJUBKLYN: AA had a VERY strong presence in the NYC-Florida Market out of LGA/JFK post TWA merger. Used to be 2x a day LGA-PBI, 3x a day LGA-FLL, 6x a Day MIA,
33 AAJFKSJUBKLYN: Oh Yes...OOPS...and I am booked on it....Sorry about that.
34 Highflier92660: I would think tourism for the Tampa Bay area would be a significant reason TPA has not been hit with large scheduling cuts. Yeilds to most Florida de
35 CitrusCritter: Forget about the convention traffic. Not much difference between that and the tourist traffic. What is changing in Orlando is the amount of business
36 PanAm330: If tourism was the deciding factor, MCO would be larger. Oh wait, it is. And overall, TPA never had what MCO did at its peak. MCO is/was the busiest
37 AAJFKSJUBKLYN: I think the thing we are overlooking is that these reductions by Airlines are a temporary measure, sure MCO is a booming town, but not right now. Plan
38 MAH4546: Still is, and probably will finish 2008 as the busiest. Though unless there is a sudden reversal, MIA will overtake in 2009. This fall, MIA will have
39 Lambert747: The topic we are in is about American Airlines, not Delta Air Lines.. American Airlines is still the #1 US airline in Latin America and is reaff
40 PSU.DTW.SCE: Chicago in recent years has priced itself out a lot of the covention / large meeting business. Not because of airfare, but the cost of hotel rooms do
41 AAJFKSJUBKLYN: Its 10 Flights a day from all 3 airports combined (just in case someone tries to knock you down). 3x JFK-MIA 2x EWR-MIA 5x LGA-MIA (I beleive this is
42 DFWEagle: Are you talking about the current schedule? There are 10x daily LGA-MIA flights right now, and this will be maintained after the schedule reductions.
44 WorldTraveler: the TW merger happened in 20XX? and lasted how long? The point is that AA added service to many of these markets apparently as retalition for DL's in
45 Lambert747: Thank You Thank You LGA-MIA currently is 10x per day (5x 752, 5x 738) JFK-MIA currently is 5x per day (4x AB6, 1x 762) EWR-MIA currently is 3x per da
46 FlyPNS1: No they didn't. These routes had nothing to do with DL. Believe it or not, but not everything in the aviation world is centered around DL. And DL has
47 Lambert747: The recent LAX draw-down by Delta Air Lines/Delta Connection in which over 25 markets were terminated as Delta was in a highly contested AA.UA.WN.AS
48 MoMan: Didn't MCO have a DL 777/MD-11 turn from ATL back in 2002/2003? Not only that, but the I-4 tech corridor is growing rapidly anchored by Tampa on the
49 FLALEFTY: Yes they did. In fact, the MD-11 service dated back to the early 1990s as a same-plane service to NRT, via LAX. Also, back in those days, DL flew L-1
50 PanAm330: They did. It was my first 777 ride, too.
51 Lambert747: Indeed they did at one time. In addition to at one time widebody service was flown JFK, CVG, DFW, SLC, LAX, and a few others to the Orlando market. N
52 MAH4546: AA has had 5x daily 738 onMIA-TPA, consistently, for four years.[Edited 2008-06-30 18:40:27]
53 WorldTraveler: MIA is not the sum total of Florida. isn't it just a little coincidental that AA seemed to be interested in moving into DL's markets just as DL did t
54 727LOVER: When DL first got MD-11 back in 1991, they flew MCO-LAX-NRT Your comments about DL are OCCASIONAL?????????????? PUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUHHHHHHHH HHH
55 WorldTraveler: every comment I made was in response to or answered by someone else. there is no U, H, or Z in "please" now in deference to the AA folks that want to
56 MoMan: I think you're wrong about this - its a long term permanant change in the legacies business plans to focus on high fare leisure and business travel a
57 WorldTraveler: true... and it shows that all the market stimulation that has occured over the last 30 years was ultimately unsustainable. It just took high oil pric
58 Lambert747: Miami is American Airlines hub operation in the Florida market. If I am not mistaken there was a statement made that said American Airlines has "hist
59 Ocracoke: When did AA fly their first flight to Florida? When I hear the words 'historic' and 'Florida,' I think of Braniff, Pan Am, Delta, Northeast, National
60 Ckfred: My father ran a trade association for nearly 20 years. A good 15% to 25% of his attendees would make reservations less than 21 days ahead, which mean
61 Lambert747: Historically speaking American Airlines has served the Florida to New York market for over two decades. So historically American Airlines has been in
62 Ocracoke: That's nice and all, but I'm still interested in when AA had their first flight to Florida. Does anyone have a specific date? Thanks.
63 BNinMSY: Unfortunately for the conventioneer - these discounts have virtually been done away with this year. Discounts no longer offered by DL/US, big restric
64 PSU.DTW.SCE: Agreed. We hosted a convention 3 years ago in MCO in August and we got it for an absolute rock-bottom rate (which was the only reason we went there).
65 WA707atMSP: AA began service to Florida in January, 1979, two months after deregulation. AA's first routes to Florida were DFW-TPA and DFW-MIA. Both of these rou
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