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Skyteam Hub Connecting  
User currently offlineCentrair From Japan, joined Jan 2005, 3598 posts, RR: 20
Posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2666 times:

I was looking at the Skyteam member hubs and how they connect to each other. There are some holes but it seems that there is at least one connection between most of the hubs.

The biggest holes in the network are between NW hubs and KE, AZ, OK and SU hubs. I am leaving CO out as they are on the verge of leaving Skyteam for Star.

I am considering Skyteam Hubs as DTW, MSP, ATL, JFK, CDG, AMS, FCO, CAN, PEK, ICN, MEX, SVO and PRG. (MEM, CVG and SLC are left out. LAX is also not included even though it is a DL secondary hub.)

DL hubs have connections to all major Skyteam hubs except CAN and PEK.

NW hubs have non-stop connections to CDG, AMS, ATL and JFK but is not non-stop connected other hubs. It does have one-stop to ICN, PEK and CAN but CAN will be dropped soon.

KE being the powerhouse of Skyteam connects to almost every skyteam hub except NW's major US hubs. (connected to SEA via NRT and 1 non-stop)

KL hub has connections to all Skyteam hubs.

AF main hub has connections to all Skyteam hubs.

OK hub has connections to all Skyteam hubs except NW and CZ hubs.

AZ hub is connected to all Skyteam hubs except NW hubs and CZ's CAN hub

AM is not as connected as it could be. AM is not connected directly to ICN, PRG, SVO, CAN, PEK, FCO and MSP. But is connected via Skyteam partner.

-------

So could we see more connections between these hubs in the future?
NW or KE connecting to ICN?
CZ connecting to NW hubs and DL hubs?
DL connecting to CAN or PEK (not gonna happen anytime soon)?
AM connecting to China, Korea, PRG and SVO?
AZ actually surviving and being connected to NW and CZ hubs?

What Skyteam Hub connections do A.netters see happening in the next few years?

*Note that things will change upon merger of NW &DL but still there will be major hub connection holes.


Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
12 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineDeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8902 posts, RR: 12
Reply 1, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2623 times:

I wouldn't discount SLC as a non-hub for DL - that hub will be sticking around post merger. As it stands, it's one intercontinental route is to a SkyTeam hub (CDG on a 767-300 ER).

Quoting Centrair (Thread starter):
DL connecting to CAN or PEK (not gonna happen anytime soon)?

DL has stated it's desire to fly to Beijing from Atlanta and I wouldn't be surprised if they went after them when more US-China frequencies become available. Also, if SEA-PEK doesn't work out as well as NW hopes, that frequency could be transferred to ATL-PEK since it's a frequency not tied to any specific city pair.

Quoting Centrair (Thread starter):
AM connecting to China, Korea, PRG and SVO?

AM has already started a 2x weekly 777 service from MEX to TIJ to PVG.

I doubt PRG or SVO would ever come online - it's way too thin of a market and passengers can easily be routed over CDG, AMS, ATL or JFK.

ICN-MEX is a possibility - I believe part of the reason it does not exist yet is due to restrictions at MEX that have prevented the MEX-NRT/TIJ nonstops (JAL runs through YVR, Aeromexico via TIJ).

Quoting Centrair (Thread starter):
AZ actually surviving and being connected to NW and CZ hubs?

Don't see them going into DTW or MSP at all. MSP couldn't handle a CDG flight, which would be more likely to succeed. I don't know if there's enough demand for a DTW-Italy flight; if there is, it would be with a 767-300 ER - could be a summer-only route, as DL currently does CVG-FCO each summer with a 767; this could probably become a reality.

Quoting Centrair (Thread starter):
CZ connecting to NW hubs and DL hubs?

CZ has already announced its intention to start PEK-DTW in Summer 2009.

PEK-ATL could be a possibility if they get rights to the route and DL cannot obtain these rights.


User currently offlineLambert747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 2606 times:



Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 1):
Don't see them going into DTW or MSP at all. MSP couldn't handle a CDG flight, which would be more likely to succeed. I don't know if there's enough demand for a DTW-Italy flight; if there is, it would be with a 767-300 ER - could be a summer-only route, as DL currently does CVG-FCO each summer with a 767; this could probably become a reality.

Northwest Airlines tried DTW-FCO 2x, and DTW-MXP 1x. None of which worked for them..

Service Announcement of entry to Italian Market 1999:

http://ir.nwa.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=11...Article_Print&ID=114978&highlight=

Suspension of Milan:

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-63743184.html


User currently offlineAf773atmsp From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2688 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 2567 times:

To MSP:

ICN-MSP most likely KE with a 787

MEX-MSP most likely AM with a 737

PEK-MSP most likely CZ with a 787



It ain't no normal MD80 its a Super 80!
User currently offlineDeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8902 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 2554 times:



Quoting Lambert747 (Reply 2):
Northwest Airlines tried DTW-FCO 2x, and DTW-MXP 1x. None of which worked for them..

Only way I see it is being a seasonal 767 - 767 has a lot less capacity than the DC-10s that NW was using on those Italy flights (and a lot less than the A330s that NW currently has) and the fact that it would be seasonal might make it work.

Year-round though I think it has no chance.

Quoting Af773atmsp (Reply 3):
ICN-MSP most likely KE with a 787

A possibility - I'd probably say this is the most likely of the three. That being said, I tend to think DTW-ICN would be more of a priority than MSP-ICN.

Quoting Af773atmsp (Reply 3):
MEX-MSP most likely AM with a 737

Who knows with Aeromexico - I'm not 100% sure this one would come.

Quoting Af773atmsp (Reply 3):
PEK-MSP most likely CZ with a 787

This one is going to be a much lower priority. I see CZ trying to get a few other cities that have some higher O&D numbers rather than going to MSP, which will be a lot of transiting passengers.


User currently offlineCentrair From Japan, joined Jan 2005, 3598 posts, RR: 20
Reply 5, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2506 times:

When it comes to US Skyteam HUBs I think that the priorities will be DTW and ATL over MSP, CVG, MEM and SLC. Of course JFK is a priority but not because it is a HUB but simple due to its status.

Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 1):
MSP couldn't handle a CDG flight, which would be more likely to succeed.

The flight was not canceled. It is still on that is why that thread was locked.

MSP will be a secondary situation for international expansion. If we see a connection between NW hubs and ICN, it will be KE DTW-ICN and NW MSP-ICN. But then I think we would see SEA-NRT-ICN being cut and offer a connecting service with KE from NRT-ICN as well as a codeshare between NW and KE on the non-stop flight. Either that or turning SEA-ICN into a Non-stop using an A330-200.

MSP-China I think will remain one stop via NRT.

I don't think we will see NW hubs connected to Italy, Russia or Prague. But I think DL will try to connect as much as possible if it is beneficial to the alliance and the company.

You know what really got me thinking about this was the fact that NW used to have a HUB in Seoul. Now that KE is so powerful would it be beneficial for NW to reconnect Seoul to its network or make agreements for KE to do so.



Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
User currently offlineFloridaflyboy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2015 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2501 times:



Quoting Centrair (Thread starter):
MEM, CVG and SLC are left out.

Why on earth would you leave out SLC?? SLC is an incredibly important hub for DL. It provides service to MANY cities that cannot be reached otherwise by SkyTeam, and it's also well connected to other SkyTeam hubs in ATL, JFK, MEX, and CDG.



Good goes around!
User currently offlineAeroflot777 From Russia, joined Mar 2004, 3008 posts, RR: 26
Reply 7, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2477 times:



Quoting Centrair (Thread starter):
MEM, CVG and SLC are left out

Why did you leave out SLC????
Salt Lake is a really important city for Delta. Connections to the West Coast are amazing for DL. I think that DL and SLC are a perfect match for many markets, nothing can stand in its way. No doubt that it won't close after merger.

Aeroflot777


User currently offlineCentrair From Japan, joined Jan 2005, 3598 posts, RR: 20
Reply 8, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2452 times:

I think I left it out simply because we have only seen one major international expansion there. It is hard to tell how things will work after the merger but at this very point in time do you think that DL before or after the merger would try and link it to AMS, PRG, SVO, PEK, CAN or ICN?

SEA is not an NW hub but it has Skyteam flights to ICN, AMS and CDG it also connects up and down the west coast through code-shares. It is not included in my list but has far more international connectivity and demand than SLC.

Post merger maybe we will see SLC get some more international flights but as of now...not much better than CVG or MEM.

I also cut CO all together which means CLE, EWR and IAH are lost out. I also didn't include LAX which is considered a secondary hub by DL and a major facility by NW yet it would be a key western Skyteam hub if they bothered to move on it. I didn't include MXP which is an AZ hub for a little bit longer.

It is nothing against SLC but it is a simple reality that it is a major domestic hub but currently only has 1 long-haul flight.

SLC-ICN is via LAX or YVR
SLC-AMS is via CDG, MSP, DTW, or CVG
SLC-SVO is via CDG or JFK
SLC-PRG is via CDG or ATL
SLC-CAN is via SFO, SEA/NRT, PDX/NRT
SLC-PEK is via CDG, JFK/EWR, SEA/PDX/NRT

My question is about possibility of non-stop connections. SLC-PEK? SLC-CAN? SLC-PRG? SLC-SVO? SLC-AMS? SLC-ICN? Now which of those actually could happen? Maybe ICN and AMS. The rest... I don't think so.

Most of SLC's international flights are to Canada and Mexico.

In the same condition how about CVG? It has even more international flights to begin with but I didn't include that.



Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
User currently offlineDeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8902 posts, RR: 12
Reply 9, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2432 times:



Quoting Centrair (Reply 8):
My question is about possibility of non-stop connections. SLC-PEK? SLC-CAN? SLC-PRG? SLC-SVO? SLC-AMS? SLC-ICN? Now which of those actually could happen? Maybe ICN and AMS. The rest... I don't think so.

For the time being, I see there being solely CDG. Asia passengers can easily connect through other hubs (and local SLC passengers can transit via SEA).

Quoting Centrair (Reply 8):

In the same condition how about CVG? It has even more international flights to begin with but I didn't include that.

I think part of the neglect of CVG is that it's being seen as getting a major slashing with the merger. They might be able to sustain a daily 757 to CDG. Anything more than that isn't happening.


User currently offlineLambert747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2429 times:



Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 7):
Why did you leave out SLC????
Salt Lake is a really important city for Delta. Connections to the West Coast are amazing for DL. I think that DL and SLC are a perfect match for many markets, nothing can stand in its way. No doubt that it won't close after merger



Quoting Floridaflyboy (Reply 6):
Why on earth would you leave out SLC?? SLC is an incredibly important hub for DL. It provides service to MANY cities that cannot be reached otherwise by SkyTeam, and it's also well connected to other SkyTeam hubs in ATL, JFK, MEX, and CDG.

Salt Lake City is not a Sky Team hub, Salt Lake City is a Delta Air Lines hub.

JFK, ATL, LAX, IAH, DTW, EWR, MEX, PRG, CDG, FCO, AMS, SVO, ICN

The above mentioned airports among others are served by multiple SkyTeam members where they connect from one SkyTeam airline to another. SkyTeam doesn't even mention the exact hubs on their website, so this is left up to hearsay and to a lessor extent the educated theory that since some hubs connect SkyTeam traffic ~ ATL, JFK, LAX, MEX, PRG; And others merely connect one airlines traffic that those that connect to one airline ~ SLC, MEM, CVG, MSP are not a SkyTeam hub in the sense that they offer a hub connectivity from one SkyTeam member to another SkyTeam member. Salt Lake City, Cincinnati, Minneapolis, Memphis, in my opinion are not SkyTeam hubs, they are SkyTeam member hubs.


User currently offlineCentrair From Japan, joined Jan 2005, 3598 posts, RR: 20
Reply 11, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 2319 times:



Quoting Lambert747 (Reply 10):
Salt Lake City, Cincinnati, Minneapolis, Memphis, in my opinion are not SkyTeam hubs, they are SkyTeam member hubs.

That makes sense. I can agree to those terms. MSP only has AMS and CDG so it too would not really count.



Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
User currently offlineSyncmaster From United States of America, joined Jul 2002, 2032 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2282 times:
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Quoting Centrair (Thread starter):
KE being the powerhouse of Skyteam

Did I miss something here? Just because they have flights to the other members hubs makes them the powerhouse?

Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 1):
I wouldn't discount SLC as a non-hub for DL - that hub will be sticking around post merger. As it stands, it's one intercontinental route is to a SkyTeam hub (CDG on a 767-300 ER).

Agreed, even CVG and MEM for that matter. A hub is a hub.

Quoting Centrair (Thread starter):
AM is not as connected as it could be. AM is not connected directly to ICN, PRG, SVO, CAN, PEK, FCO and MSP. But is connected via Skyteam partner.

I agree, but I tend to think it is easier for AM to codeshare on other members instead of operating with their own metal, for the time being at least.

-Charlie


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