CAL764 From United States of America, joined May 2008, 385 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 13336 times:
From the article: "TSA's specially trained Behavior Detection Officers (BDOs) will accompany the TSOs during some of the screening activities to provide an additional layer of security. BDOs screen travelers for involuntary physical and physiological reactions that indicate stress, fear or deception."
So, basically, if you look sketchy, they'll search you?
1. Fly to Win 2. Fund Future 3. Reliability 4. Work Together CO: Work Hard, Fly Right...
Zvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10512 posts, RR: 63
Reply 9, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 13184 times:
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 8): It won't happen until Americans organize and demand that this nonsense stop. The only way to get change in this country is to threaten elected officials with their jobs.
You're right. If enough Americans vote for Bob Barr for president, then the government will get the message and the abuse will stop.
MSYtristar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 13162 times:
Just another reason why flying is becoming more and more annoyoing. Quite a shame. This sounds like it is nothing more than a power trip. I guess my brother will get searched every time he flies since he has tattoos, piercings, and long-ish hair.
Fire their worthless butts, and hire armed guards for inside the aircraft! Or "racially" profile. Either one is much, much more cost effective, and would actually provide a modicum of real security, which at this time is sorely lacking across the board!
"Trust, but verify!" An old Russian proverb, quoted often by a modern American hero
Avek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4512 posts, RR: 21
Reply 16, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 12951 times:
Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 13): Either one is much, much more cost effective, and would actually provide a modicum of real security, which at this time is sorely lacking across the board!
Both would provide far less security, and far more potential for lawsuits.
The best course of action is a progressive privatization of TSA's activities -- at minimum, I would like to see the passenger-contact employees under the aegis of private companies; truthfully, I have fewer problems with TSA folks retaining control of screening below-the-wing baggage and cargo.
PITIngres From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 1275 posts, RR: 13
Reply 19, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 12919 times:
Knives, guns, who cares? Let 'em all in, because once you have a reinforced cockpit door, it doesn't really matter.
9/11 was a one-trick pony and that was obvious to any thinking person from the beginning. Once the threat changed from "we're gonna go to Cuba" to "we're gonna die AND kill a lot of people on the ground", threats of force on the airplane become pretty much irrelevant. Flight 93 proved that, that very day.
I'm not saying that you can't take out a planeload of people, but heck, you can do the equivalent on the outside of any security line at any major airport in the US today. Being in a plane doesn't make you any deader.
While the optimum is probably some sort of lightweight check to weed out loonies, given a choice between the TSA today and nothing at all, I'd take nothing at all in a second.
Ikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 22109 posts, RR: 58
Reply 22, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 12873 times:
It sounds like randomizing to me, which means you can't know what to expect as a passenger (or criminal).
One key part of it is that they will check passenger names on boarding passes against IDs, something that the USA carriers stopped doing, and I always felt was weird. Why wouldn't the airline want to know if the person flying in a seat was the person who's name was on the ticket?
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
Zvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10512 posts, RR: 63
Reply 24, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 12818 times:
Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 22): Why wouldn't the airline want to know if the person flying in a seat was the person who's name was on the ticket?
They wouldn't know that anyway. Anyone with the resources to highjack an airliner has the resources to forge identity documents. College students make them to buy beer. The ID check is not even an inconvenience for professional terrorists.
: Dammit! I won't be able to get away with clearing security with a bogus boarding pass then using someone else's ticket to board anymore!!! (sarcasm)
: Remember also that TSA is only as good as the rules set down by hysterical beauracratic rule-makers. I have met and talked with several TSA agents who
: There's absolutely no need for a gate check - to me that simply means that they don't have faith in getting it right the first time at the main securi
: So I am assuming we are going to have another Security Fee added to airline tickets to cover the cost of this joke of a Security system that we have
: And here I think you hit on a very important point. It seems that many if not all of the TSA measures are taken from a traditional law enforcement /
: You want to play games with TSA???? http://www.addictinggames.com/airportsecurity.html
: Oh brother. I got caught at a couple of these a few years ago. The agent did a cursory inspection of my bag (could have missed a lot), looked at me, a
: " target=_blank>http://www.addictinggames.com/airpor....html That is so true.... The TSA and Airport Security in the US has become a game..
: It's a profound waste of time and money. The TSA is always quick to point out that its "Behavior Detection Officers" have been catching contraband. Bu
: Why is this sarcasm worthy? On USA domestic flights, carriers have no idea who is in their seats, only who claims to be in their seats. If you check-
: In that instance to be fair to all just require that a photo id is again required to board a plane. There is no need to have the TSA single people ou
: Whatever it is, he's doing it while listening to an iPod. Nice.
: Listening to his iPod. So what? All the airline does when you show them an id is make sure your tag matches your BP and they don't have someone else'
: A few months ago, I would have been annoyed.....but now that they have real badges, I can't help but trust their wisdom! In other news, it's time to i
: All everyone does is complain about the TSA and the govt that created it and now keeps it. Not to mention world wide airport / border security regulat
: I hate to bad mouth people but I flew from LAS to RNO one time on US Airways and they did one of those gate checks. They set up shop out near the fron
: If I were a terrorist, I'd do everything possible to "blend in". For example, establish reputable ties in the U.S., purchase a round trip ticket with
: I used to think this way until I was the one searched while my long haired, bearded, dressed in all black son went breezing through security. Tom Das
: TSA is just a bunch of baloney... by checking people at the gate they are acknowledging the fact that they know they may have missed terrorists at the
: Well, if the plane were to, God forbid, go down, who is going to get the call telling them that youre a charcoal briquet on the ground - the family w
: And what exactly are you looking for? You've been trained in spotting (not the TSA SPOTting) suspicious behavior? Give me a break...
: Another nail in the coffin for the ailing American airline industry. Just when we all thought it couldn't get any worse than the 'perfect storm' alrea
: The link stopped working - but I thought gate searches were always there for US bound flights. I always travel to the States and every time they searc
: I have my issues with the TSA also, but some of these points need addressing. They're called Federal Air Marshals.. They all have those. And they shou
: A professional terrorist would have photo ID that passes muster. Tom Daschell said, contrary to logic, history, and ethics, "You can't professionaliz
: While you have a point, I’ll say this. In comparison to airport security in New Zealand and Australia, and Germany (my most recent destination), th
: Why? What's the point? These people don't know how to find fake IDs to save their life.
: Most states have features that will show up by using light. This little thing makes those features really stand out.
: For what, exactly? To catch some imaginary incompetent wannabee terrorist who can't get a decent fake ID? That is cost effective how? And besides, as
: It WAS privatized prior to 9/11. That's why it was federalized...which everyone at the time thought was a good idea. The private answer had been, as
: The problem prior to 9/11 was that the airlines (which hired the screening contractors) were neither responsible for security nor allowed to set the
: He heard that MacGyver was on board, and is ensuring there isn't any pretzels and bottled water to make a nuclear bomb with.
: What I meant to say is to use AMS an example (where I connect the most). Coming from the US to an intra-Europe flight, gotta go thru security again.
: How does using a film loupe (slide loupe) make black light features stand out? And by the way, not all IDs have this. My old Oregon license doesn't h
: That is true, the ATA Checkpoint Operations Guide at the time permitted any blade up to 4-inches in length. I didnt know you couldnt sever a carotid
: I swear to god, the first time we allow drinks to go through security, and they find one on a plane filled with explosives, there'll be 100 armchair
: TSA Does a ID/Boarding Pass name check at the entrance to the security line. However even if you don't have an ID you can still board a plane. You ju
: My partner is a TSO and she is the kindest, most hard working and conciencious person you will ever meet. She is professional and nice to passengers e
: Thank you for your clarification but, with all due respect, that is not what you originally were saying at all. As you correctly point out, security
: I think there was a political cartoon to this effect shortly after the new security procedures were put in place... Eliminate security and issue ever
: Well, I'll step up... Suggestion #1: Dismantle the security areas completely. Retain some flavor of checked-luggage screening (maybe; I can convince
: TSA is, at this point, a complete Frankenstein. I've said it before: this is what happens when you give a bureaucracy too much power, no real purpose,
: I'm curious as to why people think privatization will do anything. All you'll get is a bunch of contractors who will charge the gov't even more than t
: The problem is that people are not stupid. we know that TSA and its foreign equivalents are not stopping any terrorists with their checks or their no
: My biggest issues I have with the TSA are things like inconsistencies and bad operational behaviors. Examples: I just went through TSA checkpoint Ter
: I never understood the logic behind the black light pen. That still puzzles me today.
: Thankfully none of the above refers to me, and everyone that I know. I cant tell you how many times the Flight Attendant a few doors down comes back
: Apparently it makes it easier to detect modifications to a legit ID. Think changing the year on an ID so you can buy beer under age. How detecting an
: I wasn't talking about a second gate check. Jimbo
: I once asked a TSA agent to show me what the whole logic is behind the black light pens, the TSA agent wouldn't show it to me.
: A simple Google search will tell you everything you ever wanted to know! Jimbo
: Hmmm.. Somethings tells me that the topic is about "Gate Searches"
: The actual cost of the TSA is about three times higher than the actual cost of pre-9/11 private screeners while remaining equally ineffective except
: Hmmmm.... yes. I suggest you read the post I quoted. I wasn't aware that every single post had to mention 'gate searches', and that I couldn't reply
: The airlines love the ID checks as it makes it difficult for people to give away their non-refundable tickets to a friend or co-worker should they not
: I've never been through a gate secondary, so I pose a question to those who have: If it were to happen to me, how much "back talk" could I get away wi
: You are entitled to all of the back-talk you can dish out -- provided it does not obstruct the screening process. One of TSA's tactics is bullying pe
: Lets just say the best course of action is to keep your remarks to yourself, swallow your pride, and once you are on the plane have a cocktail. The T
: Racial profiling is not a good method for providing security. Behavioral profiling, on the other hand, is. So on the surface this initiative seems to
: We can "behavioral" profile all we want, the problem is what does a terrorist behave like? Do they behave like a person who was just talked to rudely
: I guess I'll be the lone dissenter here and say that I think the TSA does a much better job than the private companies did. I spent the late 90's and
: And with good training, you can spot the real threats and ignore the false ones. El Al security has gotten very good at this over the years. Do they
: You're comparing apples to oranges. The more appropriate comparison is between TSA and the (current) screeners at MCI and SFO. While I've not seen ob
: Actually, TSA did a gate screen at PHX last October for a flight to ORD. Of course, the TSA agents decided to pick on the guy yacking on the cell phon
: They have been doing both at Ben Gurion Airport in Tel Aviv for MANY years, and I cant remember ANY planes being hijacked from that airport in MANY y
: Thousands Standing Around. Gotta give em something to do. -Charlie
: When they started that after 9/11, they told me they automatically picked pass travelers for gate screening. They said airline staff traveling on pas
: You haven't been through SJC recently. (Disclaimer, yes, yes, I know they're Americans). First off, it's vitriol. Second, I suggest you travel more a
: See, that is the fallacy. You don't "deter" terrorists, especially if they are suicide bombers. Their decision is made. Does anyone seriously imagine
: I guess the reasoning behind this measure is to: 1st: check for weapons such as guns, knives, and liquids at main security 2nd: check for passengers w
: I was going to post something about this. I was flying SAT-PHL on Mon. morning (6/30) and in the terminal at SAT they were running recorded announceme
: Does this mean that once i visit the US they will screen me more than once. Because you know i have Greek tattoos on me a " goatee" listen to Heavy Me
: Then maybe she can take a part in ensuring that the rest of us don't get yelled at, shoved, pushed, threatened, intimidated, and detained by her coll
: Where did all this happen?? I'm serious! This year so far, I've taken over 70 flights through something like 15 airports in the USA, and haven't seen
: And now that these guys are federal employees, getting rid of them will be next to impossible. The job security is so great that common courtesy is v
: I've not been handled, but got yelled at (along with numerous others) in SNA a few times last year. Since then I've been going thru LGB instead. MCI
: I'm with Bond007 in reply 98 on this. Although the screening is very inconvenient, I'm curious to know why this always happens to you DocLightning. A
: EWR. I was flying EWR-SFO and when I went through the metal detector, it dinged. So I backed up. Checked my pockets. Removed my belt (which has never
: OK, now I understand ....it was ONE time. Was this the same time as the "threatened, intimidated, and detained" experience, or another? The TSA says
: I didn't say I had been threatened (except by that lady), intimidated, or detained. I said others have been. Where did I say "all"? But from the way
: Indeed, I'd recruiet Charles Emerson Harkington III, Boston brahmin and secret Jihadi. I'd also make sure he has a "Trusted Traveller" thingie (Clear
: STL is pretty bad about yelling. I'd say I get yelled at or see someone getting yelled at about 1 trip through in 4. I think the problem is that no o
: Why? I know I'm getting tiresome with these questions, but I travel from STL many times, in fact I used to live in Chesterfield, and simply don't hav
: One more reason to avoid flying in the US paranoid of A. Absolutely 100% ridiculous. I cannot believe the people of America put up with this.
: There are a handful of screeners who get very angry when folks do not put their shoes in bins. This generally happens at the C/D checkpoint and usual
: So after the first time, you've never been yelled at since then? I guess not Jimbo
: TSA will also also create a new program called Anti-terrorism National Access Security Service (ANASS) which will be created using existing staffing.
: No, I have been because I can never tell. There are other screeners (at STL and elsewhere) who are equally adamant that shoes should not go in bins.
: I've seen them miss water bottles sticking halfway out of see through, mesh, outside pockets on backpacks. When I pointed out at one checkpoint that
: Passengers are still allowed through the security screening process in the United States even if they have no identification. It seems odd to me that
: Question did you file a complaint? Did you call the P.A.N.Y.N.J. Police to file assault charges? If not, why not?
: You start with crap you end with crap. Interesting because I thought that was the big threat the feds had against states that where refusing to go wi
: Blah blah blah... Qualifications You must be a U.S.Citizen or U.S. National; AND You must have a high school diploma, GED or equivalent; OR at least
: I agree with those screeners who say shoes shouldn't go in the bins. Have you seen someone put their snow and ice covered shoes in the bin? When they
: Nobody had to show ID to the government during Gulf War I for travel. If anyone was checking IDs, it was the airlines themselves and/or private secur
: It's interesting that you when you actually ask for details about these shovings, yellings, intimidation, rudeness, detentions etc. etc. you find it'
: The point is that it should NEVER happen. NEVER. Not ONCE. Not even in ten years. And when it does happen, those agents should be removed from servic
: That's true for every single profession, gate agents, res agents, FAs, Police ... taxi drivers, Burger King employees ... etc. etc., and the truth of
: My issue at STL has happened repeatedly.
: The rudeness comes in varying forms, but it's there. There is NO reason to shout about bins, plastic bags, etc. Nobody listens, it causes confusion, a
: Unfortunately, when a lot of folks act like children, they sometimes have to be treated like children. I can honestly say that almost EVERY week, I s
: Are you running for political office? Where do I send money!
: Agreed.. Atlanta seems to have the real "prize winners" of the TSA system. They seem to be some of the rudest, condescending, and obnoxious that I ha
: Spot on. This is nothing but a de facto admission of their failure in primary screening. Does anyone know if there has ever been a secondary screenin
: The problem is Disney is a well run business, the US Government, is, well lets just say not run as "efficiently" as Disney..
: ...but still much more effective that the old private firms were. Last I checked, we don't have a lot of suicide bombers in the U.S. Thankfully, it's
: If you could call a hit rate of 40-50-percent "effective."
: Part of the problem seems to be that they assign the polite, competent screeners to the international checkpoint (which makes that checkpoint run rea
: Really? I haven't heard of anyone getting shoved by anyone except a cop. And that's its own can of worms.
: That is true. However, a passenger without any identification is still allowed to go through the checkpoint and board an aircraft. He or she will jus
: Actually, all flights bound for Australia are subject to the additional gate check. Since April, I think, possibly earlier. In HKG, the local screene
: It's due to the design of the terminal. Customs and Immigration are located in "sterile" areas of the Atlanta, Cincinnati, and Cleveland airports (amo
: Busses? Once youre done with the customs check, do you then proceed into a secure concourse, even if youre leaving the airport? Cant say that I am fa
: I think you might have missed his point.
: But you still have one....how easy it is to get is besides the point.. What does your religion and profession have to do with anything? That's what I
: Racial profiling as a security tool is effectively useless for the US and UK.
: If you act like a child, then the correct response is to respond as an adult. Unless the customer is wetting his pants, screaming for a lollipop, or
: Yes, just what I said. I said they should be treated like children, if they act like children. I never said we shouldn't respond as an adult. I was r
: Speaking of which, I see that as a HUGE real problem caused by the CLEAR program: It's a great way for terrorists the confirm that they are/aren't on
: I've never, ever, ever seen someone clean the bins. Most of the time, the puddles of water and mud and all the other junk that comes on people's shoe
: Isn't that exactly what PDX has done? Most places, you'd just have to tear out a few walls. But for an airport like MEM, where well more than half of
: Well, I guess the next time I fly anywhere I will be sure to wear something patriotic... The TSA is full of crap, and I like PITIngress and Mats' post
: Sorry, the whole "government by the people for the people" has long since disappeared. OUr country is being bought out by foreign firms left and righ
: TSA isn't law enforcement in the strictest sense of the word, they're minimum wage stooges. You can't get a driver's license for a chimp either, no m