Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
AirTran Cuts 35% Of Florida Point-to-point Routes  
User currently offlineKnope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2872 posts, RR: 30
Posted (6 years 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 7830 times:

AirTran recently published their winter-into-spring schedule, and comparing it to last year shows them dropping nonstop service in 35% of their point-to-point Florida city pairs. By point-to-point, this excludes flights to their hubs in Atlanta and Baltimore.

These numbers are for March of 08 versus 09:

Nonstop Point-to-Point Florida City Pairs -- 35.1% reduction
77 in 2008
50 in 2009

Here are the city pairs flown in March of 2008 but missing in the 2009 schedule:
BOS - PBI
BOS - SRQ
BOS - TPA
CAK - FLL
CLT - MCO
DTW - FLL
DTW - RSW
DTW - TPA
HPN - FLL
HPN - RSW
LGA - DAB
LGA - MCO
LGA - TPA
MCI - MCO
MCI - MIA
MCI - RSW
MDW - MIA
MEM - FLL
MSP - TPA
PHF - TPA
PHL - FLL
RDU - MCO
SAN - MCO
STL - SRQ
SWF - MCO
SWF - PBI
SWF - TPA

Certainly this is several months out and there could be additions or resumptions before then. However AirTran's general practice has been to publish flights for sale many months out and then pull them as the start date approaches if they have not sold well....generally not the other way around.

Considering that the strength of Florida flying has generally been a feather in AirTran's cap and given then strong profits from roughly Valentine's Day through June, it's sobering to see this many cuts. I think it is a good window in to what the industry is facing...or fears it will be facing...this winter.

[Edited 2008-07-01 09:47:10]

41 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCatIII From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 3029 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (6 years 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 7552 times:

Makes sense. Florida is low yield. Might as well redeploy thise airplanes to higher yield markets.

User currently offlineRichierich From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 4242 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (6 years 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 7434 times:



Quoting CatIII (Reply 5):
Makes sense. Florida is low yield. Might as well redeploy thise airplanes to higher yield markets.

Yeah, it makes sense although I don't think are many high yielding markets left in the US at the moment.



None shall pass!!!!
User currently offlineKnope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2872 posts, RR: 30
Reply 3, posted (6 years 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 7177 times:

Quoting RSWA330 (Reply 2):
MCI-RSW was flown for only four days.

Yes...it was planned daily but then only operated weekly.

When I did this comparison, I strictly compared "some nonstop service" in 2008 versus "no nonstop service" in 2009.

So a market drop like MCI-RSW really only was 1x per week in 2008 to 0x per week in 2009. I think there are only one or two more like this.

But by the same token, a market like STL-MCO which was daily last year and is dropping to weekends-only in 2009 does *not* show up on the dropped market list. So it's kind of a wash.

[Edited 2008-07-01 11:32:20]

User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5354 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (6 years 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 6983 times:

This point has already been brought up in the thread but here's another example of a city-pair that somewhat skews the impact of the list: SAN-MCO service was discontinued at the end of March 2008, so was long gone before the oil crisis really bagan. (And of course it was only 2x weekly so it wasn't much of a route to begin with but that's for a different discussion some day.)

An interesting and revealing list, Knope; as always, thanks for the effort.

bb


User currently offlineMOBflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1209 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (6 years 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 6863 times:



Quoting Richierich (Reply 7):
Yeah, it makes sense although I don't think are many high yielding markets left in the US at the moment.

Quite to the contrary, there are plenty of high yielding markets, many of which have yet to be tapped by nonstop service, or even competitive connecting service. They are found in the likes of smaller, secondary markets, that lack an LCC. HSV, XNA, MOB, CRW, HPN (sans Florida) - and many many more are very high yielding airports.


User currently offlineKnope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2872 posts, RR: 30
Reply 6, posted (6 years 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6655 times:



Quoting SANFan (Reply 21):
This point has already been brought up in the thread but here's another example of a city-pair that somewhat skews the impact of the list: SAN-MCO service was discontinued at the end of March 2008, so was long gone before the oil crisis really bagan.

Yup...I just did a straight year-over comparison March versus March. A number (not all) of these markets are seasonal anyway so they come and go. Not clear if SAN-MCO was ever considered seasonal, but in any case it isn't planned to return.


User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (6 years 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6607 times:

All these posts so far and no one has said what they think will be done with all the spare aircraft time, if anything.

User currently offlineMD88Captain From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1330 posts, RR: 20
Reply 8, posted (6 years 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6428 times:

Airtran's pilot union has been informed to expect a significant RIF in the fall. The details will be coming out soon. This Fall schedule is just part of the story. Its good for Airtran that the pilot's rejected that big pay raise offer.

User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13515 posts, RR: 62
Reply 9, posted (6 years 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6307 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting MOBflyer (Reply 5):
Quite to the contrary, there are plenty of high yielding markets, many of which have yet to be tapped by nonstop service, or even competitive connecting service. They are found in the likes of smaller, secondary markets, that lack an LCC. HSV, XNA, MOB, CRW, HPN

The problem in those markets is demand, not yield - in many cases there's just not enough demand to warrant the lift an airline would need to provide to justify a station's existence.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineMOBflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1209 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (6 years 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 6252 times:



Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 9):

The problem in those markets is demand, not yield - in many cases there's just not enough demand to warrant the lift an airline would need to provide to justify a station's existence.

True for many, but not all markets. HSV, for example, has Washington, DC service that rivals what many larger cities do. XNA can be explained in one word: Wal-Mart. CRW supports substantial regional service, with generally exceptional financial performance. HPN is in richpeoplesville, and legacy carriers that aren't taking folks to Florida perform quite well. MOB, as part of the MOB/PNS/GPT corridor, has nearly 500 O&D to Washington, $100,000 in daily revenue, and no nonstop service from any airline to any of those airports.

But as you said, there is most definitely a critical point that must be reached in one of two ways: yields or passenger loads. Theirs a delicate balance there.


User currently offlineOaktowntwinz From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 33 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 6166 times:

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/bus...ation/2008/06/traveling-to-an.html

This article, discussed in another post re MCO cuts, mentions Airtran's plans to expand RIC MCO service which would replace the cuts made by DL in that market.


User currently offlineMKE22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 1129 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (6 years 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 6014 times:



Quoting Oaktowntwinz (Reply 11):
http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/bus...ation/2008/06/traveling-to-an.html

This article, discussed in another post re MCO cuts, mentions Airtran's plans to expand RIC MCO service which would replace the cuts made by DL in that market.

I think the link is broken,



If Your not pissed, your not trying
User currently offlineJaysan From India, joined Apr 2008, 99 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 5797 times:

From what I understand HPN to MCO and PBI are also going to disappear later this year...

User currently offlineMKE22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 1129 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (6 years 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 5761 times:



Quoting Jaysan (Reply 13):
From what I understand HPN to MCO and PBI are also going to disappear later this year...

I bet FL MKE-PHX doesn't return for the winter.



If Your not pissed, your not trying
User currently offlineOaktowntwinz From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 33 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 years 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 5647 times:

Sorry, I didn't post the link correctly but the article in the Sunday Orlando Sentinel did a great job describing the cuts in MCO. It also mentioned what I alluded to earlier re Airtran beefing up service between RIC and MCO.

[Edited 2008-07-01 17:19:16]

User currently onlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22726 posts, RR: 20
Reply 16, posted (6 years 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 5449 times:



Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 7):
All these posts so far and no one has said what they think will be done with all the spare aircraft time, if anything.

The problem is that FL has put itself in a position where it cannot easily redeploy the capacity. The conventional wisdom was that FL didn't need to build cities like MDW or DFW because Florida flying was easy money, so they should go after the easy money. With the easy money gone, it's not clear what the best way forward is.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineKnope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2872 posts, RR: 30
Reply 17, posted (6 years 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 5426 times:



Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 7):
All these posts so far and no one has said what they think will be done with all the spare aircraft time, if anything.

This could be your answer...

Quoting MD88Captain (Reply 8):
Airtran's pilot union has been informed to expect a significant RIF in the fall. The details will be coming out soon. This Fall schedule is just part of the story.

Earlier AirTran forecasts suggested flat growth into 2009, deferring or selling off new aircraft deliveries for essentially no net change. If they are planning to reduce the pilot ranks, perhaps that means AirTran is going to join the ranks of airlines reducing their fleets.


User currently offlineTravatl From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 2173 posts, RR: 7
Reply 18, posted (6 years 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 5387 times:

AirTran is currently operating 141 aircraft, and plans to be between 135-140 by year's end.

User currently offlineKnope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2872 posts, RR: 30
Reply 19, posted (6 years 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 5358 times:

Reported elsewhere on the net, the pilots' union is expecting an estimated 180 layoffs this fall.
No word on related layoffs to F/A or ground forces.


User currently offlineGr8SlvrFlt From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 1598 posts, RR: 10
Reply 20, posted (6 years 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 5358 times:

Current fleet is 143 aircraft (but I think the newest 73G never entered service). In recent public SEC filings, AAI has stated the year-end fleet will be between 135 and 140 aircraft, subject to additional reductions if conditions warrant.

User currently offlineFL787 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1540 posts, RR: 12
Reply 21, posted (6 years 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 5154 times:

My dad just informed me that in addition to the 180 layoffs, they are asking for an 11% paycut. Even though this really sucks I don't think it's asking for anything crazy in the current conditions. My dad and I both think management is doing whatever it takes to survive.


717,72S,732/3/4/5/G/8/9,744,752/3,763/4,772/3,D9S/5,M8/90,D10,319/20/21,332/3,388,CR2/7/9,EM2,ER4,E70/75/90,SF3,AR8
User currently offlineThegreatRDU From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2310 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (6 years 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4733 times:

Wow this frees up a ton of aircraft they have to shed their fleet


Our Returning Champion
User currently offlineFlyMIA From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7123 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (6 years 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 4563 times:

Sucks to see MIA-MDW and MIA-MCI gone. Looks like its a AA dominace on the MIA-Chicago route again, well there is UA too.


"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlineMKE22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 1129 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (6 years 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 4262 times:



Quoting FlyMIA (Reply 23):
well there is UA too.

Maybe not for long. UA has cut other Florida cities, such as FLL, not saying this will happen, but still you never know...



If Your not pissed, your not trying
25 MAH4546 : Haha. Good laugh. United isn't leaving Miami. They dropped FLL and PBI to focus on MIA, which will be seeing capacity increased a fair amount this wi
26 MKE22 : Obviously. If I were UA, i'd do the same thing. I did say 'not saying this will happen'.
27 Cubsrule : I hate to be a pessimist, but I wonder whether it's too late. FL has squandered a lot of advantages, particularly with the business traveler set (whe
28 EXAAUADL : Too late for what? Survival? Please. Why is it when ever an airline does some retrenching netters are out in force saying this is the "end" of airlne
29 Cubsrule : I wouldn't be totally surprised to see very little or no flying outside of BWI and ATL in a year or two, and I honestly don't know whether that's sus
30 Travatl : It's completely sustainable. BWI, ATL, and MCO (which will see some reduction, but minimal and temporary) can rock along just fine whilst the industry
31 FlyPNS1 : It signfies that the Chicago market is oversaturated with seats...too many carriers chasing too few business travelers. Depends. If FL has a two hub
32 Post contains links KarlB737 : Courtesy: Associated Press AirTran Airways Wants To Cut Employee Pay http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080702/airtran_pay_cuts.html?.v=2
33 Crewchief : The discussion of credit card holdbacks in the 31 March AAI 10-Q is interesting. Apparently they had no holdbacks at 31 March. The 10-Q goes on to say
34 Doug_Or : 143-18=135, so I'm guessing they will drop to at least 135. (180 furloughs at about 5 CAs and 5 FOs per plane).
35 Rumorboy : Actually the staffing is about 6-7 crews per airplane.
36 Cubsrule : ...and that FL is unable to effectively chase those business travelers. That seems like a problem with business travelers to me. The problem for FL i
37 Burnsie28 : I'm sure that NW isn't having any problems with either of these reductions.
38 PSU.DTW.SCE : And NW didn't really care about this traffic either. Particularly from DTW, there is plenty of competition, and the traffic is low yield. FL is gener
39 SHUPirate1 : Except 143-18=125, not 135. Your calcuator may need replacing.
40 Isitsafenow : Neither is Spirit with the top three. There aren't a whole lot of NW or Spirit trips into FLL or RSW in July thru early December.
41 Bagpipes : FL dropped TPA-LGA back in April I believe, I used to work that flight (for teh short time we had it) was never really full except on a few occasions.
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
ULR - The Reinvigoration Of "Point-to-Point"? posted Thu Oct 13 2005 19:23:49 by Mrniji
CZ To Cut Routes To CDG, HAN, LAX, SYD, ICN, DEL.. posted Tue Jun 3 2008 11:10:47 by Bkkair
AA Capacity Cuts..return Of The Domestic Widebody? posted Tue May 27 2008 18:23:21 by FlyAA757
TAM: Still Something Of An Enigma To Me posted Wed May 7 2008 12:26:34 by LVZXV
True Value Of Airlines - How To Calculate? posted Sat May 3 2008 01:00:26 by Beaucaire
BA Postpones Switch Of Longhaul Services To T5 posted Fri Apr 11 2008 02:51:20 by Sketty222
Northwest Moves Up Launch Of MSP-FWA To May 2nd posted Tue Mar 25 2008 12:54:37 by KarlB737
Possibility Of US Airways To India posted Tue Mar 18 2008 17:02:35 by PHXmd80
Possibility Of New Flights To GRU posted Sun Feb 24 2008 08:17:01 by EddieDude
Start Of KLM Service To ORD And YYZ? posted Sun Feb 17 2008 23:51:41 by Tango-Bravo