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Airport Monopoly: ATL Vs DFW  
User currently offlineIrishAyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2091 posts, RR: 15
Posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4406 times:

Why is it that ATL is able to sustain a massive hub operation with DELTA, yet the carrier only comprises of 52.83% (correct me if I am wrong) of the market share and allows carriers such as Air Tran to own a heatlhy 21.18%? Conversely, AA at D/FW controls 85% of the market share and it is IMPOSSIBLE for another carrier (kind of like how Air Tran tried a few years back) to establish any hub operations there. What is the problem? Had Delta not tried defense mechanisms through price wars (kind of like AA had done) when FL invaded its turf back in the 90's?

We in North Texas get so screwed...


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42 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7325 posts, RR: 24
Reply 1, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4361 times:



Quoting IrishAyes (Thread starter):
We in North Texas get so screwed...

No you dont.

One thing youre not mentioning is that WN has a huge operation right next door at DAL. Right now you have extensive service to the surrounding states, and once the Wright Amendment is repealed you will have the amount of service at DAL that FL has at ATL and to close to as many destinations.

Internationally, you have KE, BA, KL, LH, MX, and TA to take you to many destinations around the world and still avoid AA.

In conclusion North Texas isnt getting screwed and they still have plenty of choices.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineAirFrnt From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2822 posts, RR: 42
Reply 2, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4326 times:



Quoting IrishAyes (Thread starter):
Why is it that ATL is able to sustain a massive hub operation with DELTA, yet the carrier only comprises of 52.83% (correct me if I am wrong) of the market share and allows carriers such as Air Tran to own a heatlhy 21.18%? Conversely, AA at D/FW controls 85% of the market share and it is IMPOSSIBLE for another carrier (kind of like how Air Tran tried a few years back) to establish any hub operations there. What is the problem? Had Delta not tried defense mechanisms through price wars (kind of like AA had done) when FL invaded its turf back in the 90's?

In a word - DFW.

Quoting IrishAyes (Thread starter):
We in North Texas get so screwed...

That's what happens when you let your local represnetives pass laws that crush competition in a market.


User currently offlineMOBflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1209 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4312 times:

There are two ways to measure market share: flown passengers (inflating the hubbing carrier's share) and O&D passengers (neglecting any connections)

Your numbers are right on for ATL's O&D market share. (PAXstats shows DL having a 58.30% share of ATL originating traffic and 45.54% share of inbound ATL traffic; with an overall share of 53.51% from 2007)

Your numbers for DFW, however, are for flown passengers (PAXstats shows that AA and its partners have a share of 85.54% of passengers inbound, outbound, and through DFW)

They cannot be compared.

DL and DL connection have a combined flown passengers market share in ATL of 71.17% and AA captures 76.97% of DFW originating traffic, 60.07% of DFW destined traffic, and 69.59% of DFW's overall O&D traffic.


User currently offlineMOBflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1209 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4209 times:

Here are the market shares for each airport:

ATL
Carrier ……… Outbound O&D ……… Inbound O&D …. Total O&D ….. Flown Passenger Share
DL …………..… 58.30% …………………… 45.54% …………... 53.51% ……...... 71.17%
FL …………..… 26.33% …………………… 26.05% …………... 25.75% ……...... 19.67%
AA …………..… 4.21% …………………… 8.14% ……………... 5.85% ………..... 2.19%
US …………..… 3.04% …………………… 4.58% ……………... 3.58% ………..... 1.29%
CO …………..… 1.78% …………………… 4.77% ……………... 3.10% …..…...... 1.10%
UA …………..… 1.79% …………………… 3.73% ……………... 2.66% ………..... 0.93%
NW …………..… 1.65% …………………… 3.77% ……………... 2.56% …….….... 0.94%
NK ………..…..… 1.28% …………………… 1.05% ……..……... 1.10% ………..... 0.44%
F9 ……………..… 0.95% …………………… 1.28% ………..…... 1.05% …..…...... 0.36%
YX ……………… 0.33% …………………… 0.68% ……………... 0.46% ………..... 0.15%

DFW
Carrier ……… Outbound O&D ……… Inbound O&D …. Total O&D ….. Flown Passenger Share
AA …………..… 76.97% …………………… 60.07% …………... 69.59% ……...... 85.54%
US …………..… 5.42% …………………… 7.44% …………... 6.12% ……...... 2.82%
DL …………..… 3.47% …………………… 6.87% …………... 5.16% ……...... 2.27%
UA …………..… 2.99% …………………… 6.13% …………... 4.36% ……...... 1.92%
CO …………..… 1.96% …………………… 4.74% …………... 3.19% ……...... 1.45%
NW …………..… 1.93% …………………… 4.40% …………... 3.00% ……...... 1.29%
FL …………..… 2.55% …………………… 3.36% …………... 2.83% ……...... 1.12%
F9 …………..… 1.35% …………………… 2.02% …………... 1.61% ……...... 0.72%
TZ …………..… 1.00% …………………… 1.23% …………... 1.05% ……...... 0.49%
AS …………..… 0.57% …………………… 1.22% …………... 0.89% ……...... 0.41%
YX …………..… 0.52% …………………… 0.95% …………... 0.69% ……...... 0.31%
SY …………..… 0.23% …………………… 0.41% …………... 0.29% ……...... 0.26%

All data from PAXstats


User currently offlineSYfan100 From United States of America, joined May 2008, 590 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4185 times:

In a sense at one time both Delta and AirTran said they needed each other in Atlanta.
It isn't so much the idea of trying to put the other out of business, but in the end when looking at the whole picture they serve one of the largest cities in the United States.
Not everyone is going to fly Delta, and Delta knows it. Not everyone is going to fly AirTran, and AirTran knows it.
But what both Airlines know is they combined bring over 100,000 passengers a day to Atlanta for either a connecting flight or to the city its self. The city of Atlanta needs them both just like they need the city of Atlanta when it comes down to making money.
It would be stupid to limit a persons option for what Airlines you can fly on out of a major Airport like Atlanta.
Because in the end if you have more then one large choice, your economy is better I feel compared to if you just had one major Airline that had a big control on the local market.
Airfares are a big reason when you see a new Airline enter a city and how passenger numbers go up while fares go down.


User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11138 posts, RR: 62
Reply 6, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4154 times:



Quoting IrishAyes (Thread starter):
We in North Texas get so screwed...

Oh please.

We don't get screwed in the slightest.

American Airlines has benefited enormously from D/FW Airport and the Metroplex market, and the same is true in reverse.

American offers a level of service with nonstop flights, high frequencies and excellent facilities that most cities would beg for.

D/FW offers nonstop access to just about any major city of consequence in the Americas, plus major markets in Europe and Asia, and thousands of flights each day in and out.

The Metroplex has benefited enormously from the D/FW hub - just witness AT&T's announcement not five days ago that it would be moving its headquarters up to Dallas explicitly because of D/FW Airport. And they're hardly the first company to say that.


User currently offlineSCCutler From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 5396 posts, RR: 26
Reply 7, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4106 times:

I am no AA apologist (as many of you know), but if we (the north Texas flying public) had not wanted AA to dominate, we could have collectively flown a lot more on Braniff and Delta.

We didn't, and AA is (at DFW) the last one standing. PIss-poor service, rapacious pricing, but none of that constitutes "screwing."

We get what we deserve.



...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
User currently offlineFXramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 7134 posts, RR: 87
Reply 8, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 4054 times:



Quoting Commavia (Reply 6):
We don't get screwed in the slightest.







Quoting Commavia (Reply 6):
they're hardly the first company to say that.

President and Mrs Bush will make Dallas there home for the usage of the grand 'ole airport!


User currently offlineEvan767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2957 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 4051 times:



Quoting Commavia (Reply 6):
Oh please.

We don't get screwed in the slightest.

You kiddin'? With the AA monopoly no one but them determines what PAX pay.



The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7325 posts, RR: 24
Reply 10, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 4024 times:



Quoting SCCutler (Reply 7):
We didn't, and AA is (at DFW) the last one standing. PIss-poor service, rapacious pricing, but none of that constitutes "screwing."

AA's prices out of DFW arent any higher than DL's out of ATL or CO's out of Houston.

Service is subjective.

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 9):
You kiddin'? With the AA monopoly no one but them determines what PAX pay.

Why is everyone else but me ignoreing WN just down the road?

AA is in no way screwing DFW. If any of you think for a second that DFW would be better with AA not there, I would like to come on record as saying that youre a moron.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4732 posts, RR: 45
Reply 11, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 4007 times:

This thread is hysterical....

Nice to see that a certain other airline isn't the only one with "kool-aiders"



Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineTxAgKuwait From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 1803 posts, RR: 43
Reply 12, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 3997 times:

Hey MOB Flyer:

Could you factor in the WN (as well as much smaller CO & AA) O&D Traffic over at Love Field and give us the PaxStats for the entire Dallas - Ft Worth area market (both airports consolidated)?

I think that would paint a slightly different picture.

Big version: Width: 338 Height: 528 File size: 42kb


[Edited 2008-07-01 19:01:31]

User currently offlineMOBflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1209 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 3906 times:

Quoting TxAgKuwait (Reply 12):
Hey MOB Flyer:

Could you factor in the WN (as well as much smaller CO & AA) O&D Traffic over at Love Field and give us the PaxStats for the entire Dallas - Ft Worth area market (both airports consolidated)?

I think that would paint a slightly different picture.

It does indeed paint a different picture. The combined DFW/DAL figures closely resemble ATL in terms of DL/FL - AA/WN O&D market shares.

Carrier ……… Outbound O&D ……… Inbound O&D …. Total O&D ….. Flown Passenger Share
AA ………..… 60.69% ………………… 46.84% ………... 54.85% ……...... 74.04%
WN ………..… 21.01% ………………… 21.74% ………... 20.96% ……...... 13.09%
US ………..… 4.24% …………………… 5.72% …………... 4.77% ……...... 2.43%
DL ………..… 2.71% …………………… 5.28% …………... 4.02% ……...... 1.96%
UA ………..… 2.34% …………………… 4.71% …………... 3.40% ……...... 1.66%
CO ………..… 2.06% …………………… 4.81% …………... 3.28% ……...... 1.67%
NW ………..… 1.51% …………………… 3.38% …………... 2.34% ……...... 1.11%
FL …………..… 1.99% …………………… 2.58% …………... 2.20% ……...... 0.96%
F9 …………..… 1.06% …………………… 1.55% …………... 1.25% ……...... 0.62%
TZ …………..… 0.79% …………………… 0.95% …………... 0.82% ……...... 0.42%
AS …………..… 0.44% …………………… 0.94% …………... 0.69% ……...... 0.36%
YX …………..… 0.41% …………………… 0.73% …………... 0.53% ……...... 0.26%
SY …………..… 0.18% …………………… 0.32% …………... 0.23% ……...... 0.23%

Data from PAXstats

[Edited 2008-07-01 19:47:24]

User currently offlineSsides From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4059 posts, RR: 21
Reply 14, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 3792 times:



Quoting Evan767 (Reply 9):
You kiddin'? With the AA monopoly no one but them determines what PAX pay.



Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 10):
AA is in no way screwing DFW. If any of you think for a second that DFW would be better with AA not there, I would like to come on record as saying that youre a moron.

LAXdude is absolutely correct. AA has no monopoly on the DFW market -- for the major domestic destinations, you can just as easily fly another airline. You may have to connect, but if the price is that much less, what's the big deal?

AA's service to the DFW area has been generally excellent in terms of destinations and frequencies. The market would suffer greatly if AA wasn't there.

In answer to the original poster's question, I think a lot of the answer to AA's "dominance" at DFW lies in the fact that DL abandoned its DFW hub operation. Does anyone have the statistics on what the market share was back when DL had its hub? I can't imagine that AA's share of DFW traffic was more than 70% (probably closer to 60%) back when DL had 200+ flights a day.

In general, not many markets can support hub/focus city operations of more than two airlines. DFW/DAL has AA and WN, IAH/HOU has CO and WN, ATL has DL and FL, ORD has UA and AA, DEN has UA and F9, etc. For quite a while, DFW/DAL was supporting significant AA, DL and WN operations, and after 9/11, something had to give. No surprise that it was DL, with three other hub operations in the US.



"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
User currently offlineIrishAyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2091 posts, RR: 15
Reply 15, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3528 times:



Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 1):
One thing youre not mentioning is that WN has a huge operation right next door at DAL. Right now you have extensive service to the surrounding states, and once the Wright Amendment is repealed you will have the amount of service at DAL that FL has at ATL and to close to as many destinations.

Let me ask you something, LaxDude. Have you ever flown into DAL from a destination on WN that was NOT included within the Wright Amendment restrictions? Say you wanted to get to Boston, or Seattle, or even Omaha for that matter...making connections (even though WN is the most efficient and prompt of all US carriers, IMO) is a pain in the rear. Fortunately, we only have six more years of that to go. Even still, you are in effect limited from DAL. Having to go DAL-ABQ-PHX-SAN becomes a 5-6 hour journey as opposed to a 3 hr direct from DFW...except you'll pay a minimum of $400.

I feel like none of y'all are actually FROM North Texas, which is causing you to fail to realize how badly AA rips people off and drives off competition. When FL started flights from D/FW to LAX a few years back, AA matched its fares on all 39 of its daily flights to SoCal, and within months the route was axed. We had extensive foreign flag service to Mexico prior to early '06 on AM and MX but AA just started throwing RJ's to cities like Toluca, and consequently both carriers pulled out. Connections on OneWorld carriers are nonexistent, either.

AA's tactics just irk me sometimes. If they start a flight to AMS just to compete with KL...I would be so furious. It's not that we are unappreciative of AA's presence in D/FW, but certainly for an O & D customer like myself, I would like to have more options. Every time I have flown to Mexico, Canada, Germany, or England from D/FW, I have always chosen AM/MX, AC, LH, or BA. Why? I do not need to worry about connections/frequencies, and frankly, they have premium service that outweighs the crap that AA is.



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User currently offlineMicstatic From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 774 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3495 times:



Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 15):
I feel like none of y'all are actually FROM North Texas, which is causing you to fail to realize how badly AA rips people off and drives off competition

Can't be as bad as Continental's fares for EWR people



S340,DH8,AT7,CR2/7,E135/45/170/190,319,320,717,732,733,734,735,737,738,744,752,762,763,764,772,M80,M90
User currently offlineMSYPI7185 From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 705 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3467 times:

The only problem I see is the citizens of the DFW reigon choose to fly AA.

If they would have flown DL or FL over AA, then DL or FL would still be there. If FL offered a fare of say $89 DFW - LAX and AA matches it, what is wrong with that? FL set the price. If they could not make a profit at that fare that is FL's fault not AA. If FL possibly miscalculated and there was not sufficient demand for the routes they chose to fly, or thought they would be able to come in and take pax from AA with lower fares and AA would just sit there, again FL's fault.

What you have is simply market forces at work. All things being equal pax chose AA over DL and/or FL. I do believe that DL had a good following and was successful at DFW, however IIRC DL believed they could make more money by making CVG a hub and focused more on their top priority ATL. CVG was already a hub for DL, but was actually what some of us would consider a focus city at the time the decision was made to drop DFW as a hub.

MD


User currently offlinePHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7482 posts, RR: 24
Reply 18, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3435 times:



Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 15):
When FL started flights from D/FW to LAX a few years back, AA matched its fares on all 39 of its daily flights to SoCal, and within months the route was axed.

While AA may have indeed matched FL's DFW fares; the fact can not be ignored that when FL started growing DFW, it was then that WN finally broke it's long silence over the W/A and began to legally challenge it.

As many of us know, since the outcome of the settlement did not abolish the W/A restrictions immediately (only the asinine through-ticketing ban was instantly abolished - still better than nothing) AND will ultimately reduce the total number of gates at DAL; FL (or any other carrier for that matter) couldn't just move from DFW to DAL in order to reduce/blunt any onslaught from AA while still serving the region.

Proof of FL pulling back service in reaction to WN's maneuvers has happened at least at two other airports:

1. MDW: while FL was about to enter a bidding war w/HP (pre-US merger) over TZ's (who entered Chapter 11 at the time) assets; WN comes out of nowhere with a lower bid for TZ (which recently ceased operations).

2. PHL: In just 4 short years FL went from the fastest growing airline serving PHL (WN made its announcement regarding starting PHL service 2 months from the day the above-statistic was published in the Philadelphia Inquirer) to now only serving ATL & MCO. I'm still wondering when DOA Director Charlie Isdell will ask FL to hand over 2 of their 4 gates.

Long story short; in addition to AA, WN played a support role in stifling FL's DFW operations.

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 15):
Have you ever flown into DAL from a destination on WN that was NOT included within the Wright Amendment restrictions? Say you wanted to get to Boston, or Seattle, or even Omaha for that matter...making connections (even though WN is the most efficient and prompt of all US carriers, IMO) is a pain in the rear.

I feel your pain but at least you can now have a connecting DAL intinerary; no more Texas 2-Step.



"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7325 posts, RR: 24
Reply 19, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3407 times:



Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 15):
I feel like none of y'all are actually FROM North Texas, which is causing you to fail to realize how badly AA rips people off and drives off competition.

I might not be a native, but I lived in Dallas for 7 years. I was there until I moved back to LA 3 years ago. I will probably be living there again the next 3 years since my family moved there.

Quoting MSYPI7185 (Reply 17):
The only problem I see is the citizens of the DFW reigon choose to fly AA.

That is the underlying theme of it all. AA has the position they have in the Dallas/Fort Worth area because people choose to fly the hometown airline and that airline provides the area with the most destinations and flights.

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 15):
It's not that we are unappreciative of AA's presence in D/FW, but certainly for an O & D customer like myself, I would like to have more options.

But you do have alot of options. Youre only option isnt AA. As I said before you have several other options to get where you need.

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 15):
they have premium service that outweighs the crap that AA is.

Sorry you dont like AA, but the overwhelming majority of DFW disagrees with you. When the WA is lifted for good what youll see is WN starting destinations like: LAX, PHX, LAS, OAK, MDW, BWI, and Florida from DAL. They should be able to do that without effecting AA too much at DFW. So you can either sit tight, wait, and help yourself to DFW's many other options (KE, MX, AC, LH, KL, BA, etc.), fly WN wherever you want to go, not fly at all, or move to another city. After all its not that bad to make a connection if you hate AA that much.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2889 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3364 times:



Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 15):
I feel like none of y'all are actually FROM North Texas, which is causing you to fail to realize how badly AA rips people off and drives off competition. When FL started flights from D/FW to LAX a few years back, AA matched its fares on all 39 of its daily flights to SoCal, and within months the route was axed

And this business plan is flawed? AA is in the business of making money. They have the right to competitively respond to FL or anyone else who they feel they can compete with successfully. There isn't a single airline in business today who wouldn't respond just as aggressively as AA did/does.

If you don;t like AA, don't fly them. You can get anywhere you want by selecting another carrier who offers you the service level and price you desire. This is your right as a consumer and any other traveller living in the metro area of a fortress hub. It's quite simple really. If you want non-stop and only AA offers that, then you can decide if it is worth patronizing an airline you do not like for the convenience of a non-stop. If not, there are a number of other carriers who would love your business.


User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 3308 times:

Interesting to see FL being so heavily local. It is what has kept FL in business, is the local ATL loyality. Loyality they havent been able to replicate elsewhere.

User currently offlineGsosbee From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 825 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 3289 times:



Quoting SCCutler (Reply 7):
I am no AA apologist (as many of you know), but if we (the north Texas flying public) had not wanted AA to dominate, we could have collectively flown a lot more on Braniff and Delta.

We didn't, and AA is (at DFW) the last one standing. PIss-poor service, rapacious pricing, but none of that constitutes "screwing."

We get what we deserve.

 checkmark   checkmark 
Could not agree more. If you want to go non-stop other than to a large non-AA hub (DEN, ATL, New York) your choice is AA. Poor service; leaving from one terminal - arriving at another; waiting 30 to 45 minutes for a bag you have to pay to be carried; and so on. On DL they at least seem to be glad you are flying DL.

WN at DAL is really not a factor for me as I do not like fighting to get in line to get on the airplane and then fighting for a seat once inside the cabin. All for the right to land somewhere and sit on a hot airplane because a less than honest Ft. Worth politician wanted to make a name for himself.


User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7325 posts, RR: 24
Reply 23, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 3283 times:



Quoting Gsosbee (Reply 22):
On DL they at least seem to be glad you are flying DL.

The service of it all is subjective. There are alot of people who think AA's service sucks. Compared to our European and Asian Counterparts, Ill agree. But for everyone who thinks they do, theres a person who thinks UA, DL, NW, etc. sucks as well. Its all on who you ask.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11138 posts, RR: 62
Reply 24, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3222 times:



Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 15):
I feel like none of y'all are actually FROM North Texas, which is causing you to fail to realize how badly AA rips people off and drives off competition.

Sorry, but no.

I have lived in the Dallas/Fort Worth Metroplex just about my entire life.

I feel quite confident that I have quite a handle - at least as good as anyone else on here - about what the Metroplex air travel market is like. Not only am I a frequent flyer, but I know lots and lots of other frequent flyers - with multiple airlines, not just AA.

And, suffice it to say, they don't have quite as negative an assessment of the situation as you do - perhaps because they benefit enormously from the high (at least as they see it) levels of service that AA provides.

Quoting MSYPI7185 (Reply 17):
The only problem I see is the citizens of the DFW reigon choose to fly AA.

Why is that a problem?

This is what I still don't quite understand: people in the Metroplex have chosen to support their hometown airline which - by the way, minor detail - happens to provide massive levels of not-entirely-horrible service that many other large U.S. cities could only dream of.

Not to mention that AMR also employs - directly and indirectly - tens of thousands of people in the Metroplex and brings billions upon billions upon billions each year into the region.

So, again, please explain to me: why is it a "problem" for the "citizens of the DFW [region]" to "choose to fly AA?"

Quoting Gsosbee (Reply 22):
If you want to go non-stop other than to a large non-AA hub (DEN, ATL, New York) your choice is AA. Poor service; leaving from one terminal - arriving at another; waiting 30 to 45 minutes for a bag you have to pay to be carried; and so on. On DL they at least seem to be glad you are flying DL.

My God - what is with all this carping and complaining?

As others said: if you don't like AA that much, then don't fly them.

But honestly, it is just ridiculous how much people complain about how bad the service is, etc., etc. AA has four Admirals Clubs in Dallas/Fort Worth, it offers nonstop service with First Class to nearly dozens upon dozens of cities, and other nonstop access to dozens more, including nonstop service from D/FW to London, Paris, Frankfurt, Tokyo, Sao Paulo, Buenos Aires and Santiago.

Is AA perfect?

No - absolutely not - and I'm the first one to point that out repeatedly when they pull sh*t that I think is stupid or short-sighted.

But to make it sound as if every traveler in the Metroplex has to endure Aeroflot every time they fly with no choice whatsoever is just plain disingenuous.

As someone who has lived in the area pretty much all my life, and knows many, many, many top-tier D/FW frequent fliers (not just AAdvantage) - I know that most of them are reasonably satisfied with the "poor service" AA gives them. Sure, they may be pissed off when AA (or more often Eagle) screws something up, but they're hardly all rioting in Terminal C.


25 TN757Flyer : Can I answer this? I no longer live in the Metroplex, but did for 17 years, and before the current WA compromise was in effect. I flew WN to non-WA d
26 Jfk777 : The differences between speaks volumes to how the two airlines dominate. AA is dominate, dominate, dominate. AA has a system and culture that throws e
27 Cozmoose : Maybe even bigger reason why DL and FL need each other is to keep WN from entering ATL market? From DL's point of view, FL is an easier competition t
28 TXJim : OK, I'm going to have to jump in here. I'm reminded of a Monty Python scene ("What have the Romans ever done for us?" ... "The Aqueduct?") when peopl
29 Cjpark : Man oh man did you ever step into it with this post. You would be surprised how many of us have lived in North Texas most if not all of our lives. Ye
30 Ssides : At least AA still has flagship 3-class service on many international routes, unlike most US domestic carriers. Frankly I don't understand this. DFW h
31 MSYPI7185 : I did not mean problem as a bad thing, guess that line was clear in my mind just maybe not everyone elses. The problem with his remarks, is what I am
32 TxAgKuwait : Wanna bet? Look at what yields did between STL & DFW and MCI & DFW...as well as what AA's mkt share did when WN was able to fly nonstop between Love
33 LAXdude1023 : Yeah I would bet. AA might decrease some frequencies to those cities, but the amount of destinations served wont be effected. Besides the markets WN
34 TxAgKuwait : No, it won't affect the number of destinations. It will just play hell with the yields and AA's market share. My comment was to the poster up the thr
35 LAXdude1023 : Yes and no. HOU, MAF, LBB, AMA, yes I agree. But AUS, SAT, ELP, definately not. They do coexist just fine. Remember that DFW is a hub. DAL isnt a hub
36 Ssides : TxAg, I guess we've just had slightly different experiences ... I think it just depends on what time you arrive, where, and dumb luck. First, I have
37 LAXdude1023 : Ohh, but you can stop to pick up a porno at one of the many fine smut stores around DAL on Mockingbird or nearby Harry Hines. Any of us will agree th
38 DLPhoenix : AA manged to survive several attempts by other airlines to enter the market, and they were not forcing the passengers to avoid other airlines. This le
39 Ssides : Agreed. With the gate limitations at DAL, there's no way it would be able to replace DFW, and WN isn't by any means going to serve every market that
40 PHLBOS : Aka The Texas 2-Step. Within the past year (has it been that long yet?), WN implemented a modified boarding procedure that essentially eliminates the
41 TxAgKuwait : Harry Hines has always been that way. In the late 50s it was the notorious location for numerous "hot pillow" motels. Still, sometimes it is nice to
42 LAXdude1023 : I was speaking in terms of numbers of flights. DFW is a connector for most of the people coming from AUS, SAT, etc. Its not really the O&D point.
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