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AA To Lose 900 Flight Attendants  
User currently offlineQQflyboy From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 2271 posts, RR: 13
Posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 9051 times:

AA announced today that with the reduction in flying and the fleet in the fall, the company will have an overage of 900 flight attendants. The WARN letter, as required per federal law was sent to the APFA today and 900 most junior flight attendants will receive their letter and furlough packet in the coming days.

The company and the APFA have provisions in place to minimize the actual number of furloughs. These provisions will likely lower the actual number of furloughs quite a bit. Some options to minimize actual furloughs include a "bridge to retirement" plan for those nearing but not quite at retirement, a seperate early retirement option, voluntary overage leaves of up to one year and partnership flying where two flight attendants fly one schedule.

The process of proffering retirements, overage leaves and partnership flying will take place throughout July. We should know actual furlough numbers sometime around the end of the month.


The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
37 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2920 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 9021 times:

Not as many f/a layoffs as I initially though there would be. No plans to close any bases either?

User currently offlineAAJFKSJUBKLYN From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 903 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 8826 times:

One good thing with good management keeping the flying levels pretty low.........I always said that!!!!!!!!!!

Plus AA will need additional FA's when they bring on more 737's, as they will need a #4....


User currently offlineQQflyboy From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 2271 posts, RR: 13
Reply 3, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 8708 times:



Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 1):
Not as many f/a layoffs as I initially though there would be. No plans to close any bases either?

Not as many as I thought either. We've been told no base closures for now, but in this very fluid environment some things set in stone today may be up in the air tomorrow.

One reason the number is low may have to do with, as was said above, the new 737s AA will take delivery of next year. They will require four flight attendants, not three like AA's current models, and since they're replacing one for one MD-80s which only require three flight attendants, there will be an increase in the number of flight attendants necessary to operate those a/c.



The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
User currently offline777STL From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3604 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 8703 times:

Well, it looks like a lot of those poor ex-TW F/As will be getting furloughed yet again....sigh

How many total F/As are there at AA?



PHX based
User currently offlineAAJFKSJUBKLYN From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 903 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 8682 times:



Quoting QQflyboy (Reply 3):
One reason the number is low may have to do with, as was said above, the new 737s AA will take delivery of next year. They will require four flight attendants, not three like AA's current models, and since they're replacing one for one MD-80s which only require three flight attendants, there will be an increase in the number of flight attendants necessary to operate those a/c.

I guess it all levels out.. 900 is NOT bad at all (I was expecting 2k)....There a few senior mama's that DO THE RIGHT THING and be out already! Lord, I have been seeing the same AA flight attendants on the JFK-LAX route since I was 11...I am 34 now (actually today..  Smile)....they are the June Cleaver looking ones....Go already...enjoy life. From the article on Jet-Net, seems that there are some good options for FA's to leave.


User currently offlineSkygypsy From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 25 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 8666 times:

I also believe the number (thankfully) is very low. With all the options available to reduce the active number of f/a's--there may not be any furloughed. However, I think this could be the first phase. There are more reductions, specifically to AE, coming in November. I think it all depends on fuel prices and the economy....Time will tell....but at least they finally came up with a number. It's agony waiting for the real news and hearing all the galley gossip!

User currently offlineFlyguy41 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 36 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 8566 times:

Couldn't agree more.....I was quite sure it would be more then 900, although that number is still fluid depending on leaves and such. Hopefully the Leave Options will be enough for some of the people to not only take a leave, but take a permenant leave as well. Let the galley gossip continue..........  biggrin 

User currently offlineUnitedSuperDC8 From United States of America, joined May 2008, 84 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 8364 times:



Quoting AAJFKSJUBKLYN (Reply 5):
There a few senior mama's that DO THE RIGHT THING and be out already!

If they have not yet reached the age to receive full social security benefits I think it is their right to work. I don't agree with expecting tenured employees to leave to save junior employee jobs. We won't even get into the fact that those at risk for furlough are probably closer to retirement than most of those that will stay standing.



No thanks - keep the 'Change'.....Al Gore invented two things: the internet & global warming
User currently offlineAAJFKSJUBKLYN From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 903 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 8340 times:



Quoting UnitedSuperDC8 (Reply 8):

Couldn't agree more and beleive me most could receive SSI by now....TRUST ME..................


User currently offlineFalstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 6084 posts, RR: 29
Reply 10, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 8161 times:
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Quoting UnitedSuperDC8 (Reply 8):
If they have not yet reached the age to receive full social security benefits I think it is their right to work.

How many FA's does AA have that are over 65 or 67 for some people? I don't want to hear a bunch of whiners talking about the way people look, I want to know real figures.

Quoting UnitedSuperDC8 (Reply 8):
We won't even get into the fact that those at risk for furlough are probably closer to retirement than most of those that will stay standing.

former TWA FAs???

I get so sick of people knocking on older FAs. The ability to do a job has nothing to do with age or appearance. I bet a lot of people on a.net that knock older FAs and only want hot young women would flip out if an airline said they didn't hire blacks, homosexuals, men, etc. You would screaming discrimination. But age discrimination gets a pass. Age discrimination is a huge issue and it effects just about everyone eventually.



My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
User currently offlineFXramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 7246 posts, RR: 85
Reply 11, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 8075 times:
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I am not knowledgeable with the union ways of the AA flight attendant, but why not offer early outs for the old timers and let the young ones stay on?

 twocents 


User currently offlineToTheStars From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 264 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 8054 times:

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 10):
Quoting UnitedSuperDC8 (Reply 8):
If they have not yet reached the age to receive full social security benefits I think it is their right to work.

How many FA's does AA have that are over 65 or 67 for some people? I don't want to hear a bunch of whiners talking about the way people look, I want to know real figures.

Quoting UnitedSuperDC8 (Reply 8):
We won't even get into the fact that those at risk for furlough are probably closer to retirement than most of those that will stay standing.

former TWA FAs???

I get so sick of people knocking on older FAs. The ability to do a job has nothing to do with age or appearance. I bet a lot of people on a.net that knock older FAs and only want hot young women would flip out if an airline said they didn't hire blacks, homosexuals, men, etc. You would screaming discrimination. But age discrimination gets a pass. Age discrimination is a huge issue and it effects just about everyone eventually.

I couldnt agree more Falstaff!! I always had respect for the really senior crews I flew with at TWA(junior at AA). But we had a polar opposite culture than AA does. Former APFU "leader" John Ward must be laughing his AAss off that they are getting screwed out of furlough pay twice thanks to him.

[Edited 2008-07-02 13:07:22]


TWA-Airline To the Stars
User currently offlineAAH732UAL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 7915 times:

Quoting AAJFKSJUBKLYN (Reply 5):

I guess it all levels out.. 900 is NOT bad at all (I was expecting 2k)....There a few senior mama's that DO THE RIGHT THING and be out already! Lord, I have been seeing the same AA flight attendants on the JFK-LAX route since I was 11...I am 34 now

So what..... they have every right to be as senior as they want. You have no right to have a say in that issue. They have put in their time and they feel like they want to stay, so be it.

Unbelievable.... stop the FA and senior bashing..... that goes for everyone, its so stupid how narrow minded people get when they see a pretty little Asian FA who has no real standing with the company and has to be gone at 23..... Unbelievable.

Loyalty to a company use to stand for something.....

[Edited 2008-07-02 13:50:33]

User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2920 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 7865 times:



Quoting AAH732UAL (Reply 13):
Loyalty to a company use to stand for something.....

Agreed. And it's a shame this work ethic has lost it's value in today's business world.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25040 posts, RR: 46
Reply 15, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 7642 times:

AA is also offering several voluntary options. Details which are as follows.


Voluntary Bridge to Retirement- To be awarded in advance of other types of leaves of absence. The Company reserves the right to limit the number of Flight Attendants who may accept the program, and to discontinue the program at any time. Full provisions of this program are available on Jetnet, but include;

Eligibility: A Flight Attendant, not currently on furlough, who is at least 50 years of age, with at least 15 years of Company Seniority as of August 31, 2008

Permanent separation without recall rights

Severance: $15,000

COBRA Medical Coverage: The Flight Attendant initially will be offered six months of subsidized COBRA medical coverage at 20% of the normal COBRA rates (subject to the Flight Attendant complying with applicable requirements and conditions). A Flight Attendant who complies with applicable requirements will remain eligible to purchase COBRA medical coverage for another 12 months at full COBRA rates. Subject to the provisions of the applicable retiree medical plan (which controls as to retiree medical matters), the Flight Attendant will become eligible for retiree medical at age 55 if they continue to prefund until that time, provided that s/he began prefunding when first eligible, and has continued to make prefunding payments since that time.

Travel: AA/AE travel only, D2 eligible travelers only and subject to imputed income after 90 days. At age 55, retiree travel will be identical to travel for other retirees.

Broad Based Stock Options: Stock options may be exercised up to 90 days after separation. Stock Options will be forfeited after 90 days

Separation Date: At Onboard Service discretion subject to operational needs

A Flight Attendant cannot take both this Voluntary Program and Article 30

Overage Leaves- (Flight attendants who receive a Subject to Furlough letter are not eligible to proffer for an Overage Leave). Crew Resources will be able to forecast flying for each base. Overage leaves are offered by base and awarded to eligible flight attendants by base in occupational seniority order. Overage Leaves of up to a year in length will be offered. We anticipate that the proffer for Overage Leaves will open on July 7 and close on July 21. Once granted, Overage Leaves of Absence are irrevocable. Please see Article 16 of Collective Bargaining Agreement for full details on Overage Leaves.
Partnership Flying- (Flight attendants who receive a Subject to Furlough letter are not eligible to proffer for Partnership Flying.) If a surplus still exists after Overage Leaves have been granted, Partnership Flying assignments will be offered to eligible flight attendants at individual bases at which a surplus still exists. Partnership flying is for an irrevocable period of three (3) contractual months. Eligibility criteria can be found in the Appendix F of the CBA.

Retirement-The current AA/APFA Collective Bargaining Agreement lowers the age at which an eligible flight attendant can elect to retire from 62 to 60 without any reduction in your pension benefit, and the pension benefit is calculated on your top four years of earnings, rather than the top five.

Article 30 Early Retirement-Provides for early retirement for eligible flight attendants at age 45 (but less than age 55) with 20 years of company seniority. This option provides a $25,000 lump-sum payment; specified life insurance and specified medical benefits; and 10 round-trip D2 passes per year.

I encourage those of you eligible and interested in any of these options to consider them carefully. Hopefully, there will be sufficient numbers of flight attendants participating in these voluntary options to either offset the entire overage or greatly reduce the eventual number of necessary furloughs.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11514 posts, RR: 61
Reply 16, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 7417 times:

I agree with what others have said that this is definitely surprising - in a good way.

I was expecting way more than 900 FA furloughs, but I agree that this is likely the result of the new 737s coming on line next year and need a fourth FA + what I'm sure AA anticipates will be lots of people taking the voluntarily programs.

I am very happy to see AA offering the "Bridge to Retirement," which I have been advocating for months. It isn't quite the 5+5 that I was expecting - as that would have likely enticed even more people to leave - but it is definitely going to get a lot of senior people out and make way for a lot more people on the bottom to survive the layoffs.


User currently offlineChgoflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 622 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 7306 times:

Why dont they lay off the older more expensive F/A's.


Will someone please wake me up in 4 years
User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4747 posts, RR: 45
Reply 18, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 7017 times:

Are AAs new 738s being delivered with a different config? What's driving the need for a #4?


Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25040 posts, RR: 46
Reply 19, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 6992 times:



Quoting Chgoflyer (Reply 17):
Why dont they lay off the older more expensive F/A's.

Logical concept, except the little details of union contracts require the last hired to be first fired.

Overseas many companies can rightfully terminate based on other factors including merit, however here we are stuck with the seniority number being mightier then anything else.

Quoting AAH732UAL (Reply 18):
Unions are a life saver.

In the same context, I can easily argue unions have been the death knell of many industries in America.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineAAH732UAL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 6556 times:



Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 19):
In the same context, I can easily argue unions have been the death knell of many industries in America.

Crappy management kills companies.... the employees only get a free ride to bankruptcy.


User currently offlineJetstar From United States of America, joined May 2003, 1644 posts, RR: 10
Reply 21, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 6440 times:
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Quoting LAXintl (Reply 20):
In the same context, I can easily argue unions have been the death knell of many industries in America.

I agree, with some unions jobs and benefits for life at all costs attitude, many companies have gone out of business because they were unable to compete with the competition.

Case in point, at Bethlehem Steel, who at one time employed over 100,000 people, but over time they couldn’t be competitive with non-union companies and imports because of their union contract, so Bethlehem Steel started downsizing. It was the older workers who took early retirement with benefits and within 15 years Bethlehem steel had only 12,000 employees supporting 100,000 retirees. Their pension and benefits obligations was costing them more than what the company was earning so Bethlehem Steel had no choice but to shut down and liquidate. All the retirees lost their company pensions, taken over by the government at much lower rates and lost all their lifetime health benefits, all because the union would not negotiate major cuts in the retirees program.

Lucent is another company in the same boat, 30,000 employees supporting 125,000 retirees, Lucent being the old Western Electric division of Ma Bell.

Look at the United Auto Workers union, they have lost almost a million members in the past 25 years because of the Asian auto manufacturers.

Lets see, GM’s North American UAW contract is 1100 pages thick, Toyota’s union contract for their North American employees who build the Camry is 0 pages because Toyota doesn’t have a union, so Toyota can build a Camry using less than three quarters of the man hours than GM for the similar sized Malibu. You would think that the UAW would reduce the contract so GM can be competitive in the market but they are adamant about no givebacks.

GM and to a lesser extent Ford and Chrysler are facing the same thing that Bethlehem Steel went through. As GM downsizes, it is the older workers who take the buyouts and retire, being placed in the pension program. GM union contract, besides pensions gives all retirees and their spouses lifetime health insurance. I read that GM has a million retired employees and spouses in their program with about 80,000 UAW production workers left. Sooner or later GM’s pension and health benefits obligations will reach a point that GM will not be able to support it anymore and I see within the next 5 years GM declaring bankruptcy so they can get out of these obligations and get their union contract rewritten so GM can again be competitive in the market. I know there has been some buyouts to get ready to retire employees off of the pension program, but not enough to really help GM

Now with the big three’s main cash cows, SUV’s and pick up trucks that nobody is buying gathering cobwebs because of the price of gas, this will only hasten their financial problems. How much profit do you think GM makes on a Chevy Cobalt or Ford on a Focus as compared to a full size SUV, less than 10 percent and no way will they sell 10 times the amount of small cars as SUV’s and trucks to make up the difference. The Asian manufacturers basically have the small car market to themselves.

Just my 2 cents.


User currently offlineMirrodie From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 7443 posts, RR: 62
Reply 22, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 6282 times:
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Its good news that the number is only 900. The bad news is that the layoffs won't target the FAs that are bringing down any semblance of customer service that AA has left.

Its too bad seniority is the bottom line. Every business has poor employees and should have the option to lay them off.



Forum moderator 2001-2010; He's a pedantic, pontificating, pretentious bastard, a belligerent old fart, a worthless st
User currently offlineAdmluvs2fly From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 166 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 5810 times:



Quoting 777STL (Reply 4):

Yes how many F/A do they currently have. My algebra isn't that good , but someone could use their algebra know how to figure it out. 900 over x = .05/1. Something like that.


User currently offlineSkygypsy From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 25 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 5795 times:

I believe that it is every person's right to stay on a job, however old they are, so long as they can do the job and WORK. There are so many f/a's, not necessarily near retirement, that milk this job for all they can.

I just flew with a f/a (41 years). She was great. Said she had one foot out the door, didn't need the job cuz she had married very well--and it's her business to keep the job. No problem with that. However, she told me a story about another senior f/a that lives in Ireland, only comes to the US once a year to keep her qualifications, bids every month and holds Narita (the most senior/desirable trip at JFK) and then sells the trips to a trip trader (Brenda). This is totally disgusting to me! Why are people allowed to to this?

I hope if f/a's that work the system like this don't take one of the options available, that the new contract makes it difficult for them to do this kind of stuff anymore. Every employee needs to validate their being considered an employee by WORKING--this is a job after all, isn't it? You have to earn your right to receive any benefits, even if you pay your whole healthcare premium out of pocket.


25 Brilondon : If this is the way the rules are then it is that persons right to use them to ones advantage. You don't even work there so why does it bother you?
26 Admluvs2fly : Hay people, don't you know any algebra? Any how, I believe the answer is 18,000 flight attendants. Correct me if i'm wrong.
27 Skygypsy : These are they way things are done and have been done for many years and now it's time for some rules to change. Times have changed, and the economy i
28 Joemugg : It does seem as though some "new math" must be applied to an industry that is... well, I don't want to say in "chaos" but something approaching that.
29 AAJFKSJUBKLYN : Removal of some galleys , realigning pitch, bringing extra seats.
30 QQflyboy : There are a couple of things being done to increase coach capacity by 12 seats, or two rows. Behind the lavs in the back there is a cart housing on e
31 PRAirbus : AA has close to 18,000 FAs systemwide. The 900 furloughs would be below than that number since after the leaves and early-out retirements are processe
32 Movingtin : Union or not - age discrimination LAWS don't allow "older more expensive" employees to be fired just to cut costs. Oh really, Please enlighten us! th
33 Post contains links 102IAHexpress : Well the news doesn't get any better today. According to the Dallas Morning News, AMR will post at least a 1.5 Billion 2Q loss and will cut 6,500 more
34 Delta2UAL : Also, DL is putting the 4th back on their 738's. They had 4, then 3 because they removed some seats, and are now in the process of putting them back
35 Lightsaber : Sigh... probably the case This is where I rant against unions. AA needs to up the customer service. I'm certain there are at least a thousand bad cus
36 QQflyboy : Grim news indeed. At least our CEO put it all in perspective yesterday. Following are some interesting tidbits from his Jetwire to employees. "The se
37 PRAirbus : Bad news for AA but not only for AA. AA still has lots of liquidity way over the minimum 2billion to even go bankrupt. AA is burning some $3 million p
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