Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
LY Discontinuing MIA-TLV  
User currently offlineRookinla From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 307 posts, RR: 2
Posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 7641 times:

I did a search and couldn't find anything mentioned so here it goes...LY is discontinuing MIA-TLV effective 9/1. There will be a press release tomorrow morning that explains why the route is being dropped. There will be some type of codeshare with AA to fill the gap although I'm not sure yet what that arrangement will look like. Before anybody says anything I do not work for AA or LY. This is a big shock to me. I was pretty sure that this route would be around for a long time. This will be a complete pullout for LY...no routing through another destination. They will however keep their sales office in Miami.

93 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33182 posts, RR: 71
Reply 1, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 7596 times:

At $140 fuel and a high-CASM 762, it shouldn't be a shock. If fuel is ever sub-$100 again, I could definitley see the route returning.


a.
User currently onlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7757 posts, RR: 25
Reply 2, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 7533 times:



Quoting Rookinla (Thread starter):

Hey dude, its been too long since ive seen you on here.

Quoting Rookinla (Thread starter):
I do not work for AA or LY

REALLY??? You dont say!  Wink

Is there any news on AA's codeshare with LY? Its been a ling time since weve heard anything about that. I thought it was supposed to be a done deal.

Good thing LAX-TLV is still here!!!



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineAF022 From France, joined Dec 2003, 2169 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 7330 times:

Those 762s of EL ALs are really old.

User currently offlineB752OS From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1322 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 7273 times:

I thought the loads and yields were fantastic on this route and that LY was going to add extra frequencies and eventually send a 772 on the route. I guess not.

User currently offlineAA388 From Puerto Rico, joined Sep 2007, 305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 7242 times:

its possible the loads and yields were good just the 762 wasnt a profitable aircraft for the length of the route?

-max



Flown on A319, A320, A321, A330-200, A340-300, 737-3,5,7,8, 747-400, 757-2,3, 767-300, 777-200
User currently offlineB752OS From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1322 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 7217 times:



Quoting AA388 (Reply 5):
its possible the loads and yields were good just the 762 wasnt a profitable aircraft for the length of the route?

-max

Wouldn't LY have put a 763 or 772 on the route then?


User currently offlineAA388 From Puerto Rico, joined Sep 2007, 305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 7163 times:

i remember in a thread on here saying that LY doesnt have any extra 772's or 763's


-max



Flown on A319, A320, A321, A330-200, A340-300, 737-3,5,7,8, 747-400, 757-2,3, 767-300, 777-200
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33182 posts, RR: 71
Reply 8, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 6998 times:

Quoting B752OS (Reply 4):
I thought the loads and yields were fantastic on this route and that LY was going to add extra frequencies and eventually send a 772 on the route. I guess not.

What extra 772 could they send? They have none.

Loads were excellent. Yields were strong when fuel was $70, even $100. $140? Forget it. The 767-200ER is an inefficent, gas guzzler, and to use it on a route this long is killer.

They did add extra frequencies, increasing capacity by 50% last year.

El Al will be back when they have the 777s and when fuel goes down, I have no doubt.

[Edited 2008-07-02 14:23:56]


a.
User currently offlineJFK787NYC From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 812 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 6939 times:

1-Congratulations to Delta as they have just took over 75% of the route.
2-AA/LY have started the codeshare from beginning of this year.


User currently onlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7757 posts, RR: 25
Reply 10, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 6847 times:



Quoting JFK787NYC (Reply 9):
AA/LY have started the codeshare from beginning of this year.

Its not there yet. There isnt a flight I can find that AA put its number on that is operated by LY. As soon as they put they their code on LY's LAX-TLV, Ill be visiting some friends in Tel Aviv.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineDUALRATED From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1001 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 6830 times:

AA needs to fly to TLV themselves they could do JFK, MIA, ORD, AND LAX TO TLV and jump into that market. JFK maybe not but the rest would work. No?


AIRLINERS.NET MODERATORS SUCK MOOSE DICK!!!!
User currently online727LOVER From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 6555 posts, RR: 20
Reply 12, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 6810 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 8):
They did add extra frequencies, increasing capacity by 50% last year.

What was/is their schedule? I've never seen an LY aircraft at MIA.  Confused



Listen Betty, don't start up with your 'White Zone' s*** again.
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25843 posts, RR: 22
Reply 13, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 6763 times:



Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 12):
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 8):
They did add extra frequencies, increasing capacity by 50% last year.

What was/is their schedule? I've never seen an LY aircraft at MIA.

LY currently arrives MIA at 0815 Tuesday/Thursday/Sunday and departs MIA at 1400 on Tuesday/Thursday and at 1130 on Sunday.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23203 posts, RR: 20
Reply 14, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 6617 times:



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 13):

LY currently arrives MIA at 0815 Tuesday/Thursday/Sunday and departs MIA at 1400 on Tuesday/Thursday and at 1130 on Sunday.

Why the long turns? Security? Arrival times in Israel? Something else?



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineDL Widget Head From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 2100 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 6601 times:



Quoting DUALRATED (Reply 11):
AA needs to fly to TLV themselves they could do JFK, MIA, ORD, AND LAX TO TLV and jump into that market. JFK maybe not but the rest would work. No?

I think AA should look into MIA-TLV with a 777; perhaps off of one of their S.A.-MIA flights.


User currently offlineKlwright69 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jan 2000, 2078 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 6479 times:

Correct me if I am mistaken, but AA can't fly to TLV with their own metal. Israel will confiscate the aircraft since didn't AA leave TW employees high and dry? At least this has been said on a.net. Can someone clarify?

User currently offlineAFGMEL From Australia, joined Jul 2007, 744 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 6457 times:

They should have bought the A332/3 when they had the chance!  stirthepot 


B 727-44/200 732/3/4/8/9 767-3 742/3/4, 772/3, A319/20/21 332/333 342/3 , DC3/4/10, F28/50/100, ATR72
User currently offlineAA388 From Puerto Rico, joined Sep 2007, 305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 6431 times:



Quoting Klwright69 (Reply 16):
Correct me if I am mistaken, but AA can't fly to TLV with their own metal. Israel will confiscate the aircraft since didn't AA leave TW employees high and dry? At least this has been said on a.net. Can someone clarify?

i remember hearing something along those lines.


-max



Flown on A319, A320, A321, A330-200, A340-300, 737-3,5,7,8, 747-400, 757-2,3, 767-300, 777-200
User currently offlineDUALRATED From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1001 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 6333 times:



Quoting Klwright69 (Reply 19):
Correct me if I am mistaken, but AA can't fly to TLV with their own metal. Israel will confiscate the aircraft since didn't AA leave TW employees high and dry? At least this has been said on a.net. Can someone clarify?

I'd love to see where that is written...I would think that it would not be a problem for AA to fly to Israel. Delta left and returned, AA was never there!



AIRLINERS.NET MODERATORS SUCK MOOSE DICK!!!!
User currently offlineDLPhoenix From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 420 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 6190 times:

A few clarifications:

LY used a 762E for the TLV->MIA route since the 763E does not have the legs. They listed MIA as one of the target markets when they made the last 772 order.

AA decided to ignore the Israeli labor law (mandating a 1 month/year severance for laid off employees) when they closed the TWA station there. AA will have to settle with the Israeli authorities if/when they resume operations in Israel.
In other words the cost of resuming operations in Israel will be higher by a few millions of dollars than the cost to any other airline. "The Israeli authorities will impound the first AA aircraft thal lands in TLV" is somewhat of a stretch.


User currently offlineMIAMIx707 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 6138 times:



Quoting B752OS (Reply 4):
I thought the loads and yields were fantastic on this route and that LY was going to add extra frequencies and eventually send a 772 on the route. I guess not.

During the 90s the El Al flight to MIA was operated by North American JFK-MIA-JFK

Then this decade they sent EL AL metal, first it was 744, then 777 (stopping in JFK I believe) and now down to a 762ER. However it might have been only like 2x a week when they used to bring in the 74 and 777.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33182 posts, RR: 71
Reply 22, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 6114 times:

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 22):
However it might have been only like 2x a week when they used to bring in the 74 and 777.

Flights with the 744 and 772 operated with a stop in either JFK or Newark. They were typically 2x weekly, but sometimes 1x weekly during slower times.

When they started the 762ER, it was initially 2x a week and increased to 3x a week. The flight was not non-stop until the switch to the 762ER was made.

The switch to a non-stop was a strong performer out the gate, and service became 3x weekly one year after launch. However, the flight requires a very high break even load-factor. That works out just fine, because the load-factors are excellent, until fuel doubled. It's too bad, but without a more fuel efficient aircraft to put on the route, the 762ER is no longer going to cut it.

[Edited 2008-07-03 00:31:38]

[Edited 2008-07-03 00:32:43]


a.
User currently offlineCitrusCritter From United States of America, joined May 2007, 1129 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 6078 times:



Quoting DLPhoenix (Reply 21):
AA decided to ignore the Israeli labor law (mandating a 1 month/year severance for laid off employees) when they closed the TWA station there. AA will have to settle with the Israeli authorities if/when they resume operations in Israel.
In other words the cost of resuming operations in Israel will be higher by a few millions of dollars than the cost to any other airline. "The Israeli authorities will impound the first AA aircraft thal lands in TLV" is somewhat of a stretch.

If it was really that big of a deal, couldn't the Israelis simply squash the codeshare by denying regulatory approval?


User currently offlineLXA340 From Switzerland, joined Nov 2006, 2127 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (6 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 5896 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 14):
Why the long turns? Security? Arrival times in Israel? Something else?

Due to the arrival time in israel. If the flights leave earlier they would arrive at some point in the middle of the night, like this they arrive at a decent time in the morning to TLV. But the turnaround time really isnt the problem on this route, it's the equipment!!!


25 Amirs : 1. I dont know where u guys get your info from, but MIA was going out with poor loads. I have been telling you for a while they they plan on scrapping
26 JAGflyer : How are the loads on the LAX-TLV-LAX flights? I know when I flew LY from YYZ-LAX-YYZ the amount of pax coming to/from Israel was minimal. Most people
27 LXA340 : Loads and yields are very good on this route. As the TLV - LAX was not non stop in the past passengers had the choice to fly with airlines offering b
28 DUALRATED : People just make things up....This dosn't even make sense. The 747 Classic was before the 744 fyi.
29 OA412 : No they don't. Look at reply 21. While having an aircraft impounded is a bit of a stretch, there is the very real possibility that AA would be asked
30 LVHGEL : AA had or have a similar issue in Paraguay, but in this case the problem was with AA emplyees.
31 DUALRATED : Ok....I am saying that Israel impounding an (any) American airliner for the reasons stated above is pure BS. Now the rest may be true, but I would li
32 Post contains links LAXintl : Here is a news story on the cut. http://www.reuters.com/article/marke...sNews/idINL0318810220080703?rpc=44
33 MAH4546 : Loads are published and public. The loads were between 75 and 95% consistently. That's not poor. No doubt in my mind El Al will be back at MIA within
34 RJpieces : Where do you find such loads?
35 MAH4546 : You can find them by sniffing through DOT's website (not sure where exactly) or MIA's own website.
36 MIAMIx707 : That makes sense. During the 90s the El Al traffic to MIA consisted of North American 737s and 757 narrobodies from JFK and this wasn't even daily I
37 MAH4546 : The average load in February was 94%. Loads were not one bit poor. Miami is Tel Aviv's 2nd/3rd biggest long-haul market (it's similar size to L.A.);
38 Cubsrule : Generally, if a country or an airport wants a carrier badly enough, such issues can magically evaporate. The problem in this case is that Israel does
39 DUALRATED : No....On a regular basis I would taxi out from spot 8 which is between concourse G and H at Miami (1999-2000). And a few times a week there she would
40 MIAMIx707 : Shame that MIA and Florida in general will be losing a direct connection to israel. I don't know much about EL AL's fleet but couldn't they dedicate
41 MAH4546 : The fleet is very tightly utilized and obviously the much more profitable New York market gets priority. Tag-ons aren't very efficient these days wit
42 DUALRATED : I was about to suggest the very same thing , I had no idea Israir had already applied for the route. And you right the A330 would be ideal for the ro
43 Post contains images MIAMIx707 : AXH is a cargo plane. Maybe you are confusing airports/planes? Perhaps it was a freighter on a taxiway near that concourse for a 27L departure. Memor
44 MAH4546 : They visited ocassionally, but typically only around December/January. In 1996, El Al announced, but never started, TLV-MIA-MCO-TLV, 1x weekly 742.
45 MIAMIx707 : I saw the 742 in Orlando, they operated into MCO briefly, I think it was 1997 when I saw it. Actually remember it was the one with a 50yr/ anniversar
46 Post contains images DUALRATED : Buddy trust me I think I know my planes. I could be wrong but last time I was there I dont think they park freighters at gates. and she was always pa
47 Klwright69 : Um, regarding the "aircraft confiscation," yes that is kind of an exaggeration I suppose. I am not making up that line though, I was quoting what I re
48 Amirs : MAH4546 Hey buddy I dont know why you keep arguing with everyone about the load factors on the route to MIA. They were very low, at the best there wer
49 LY777 : so, you think that LY will convert the 77E into 77W?
50 LAXdude1023 : Maybe theres a link or something that can settle the issue.
51 Aguslamm : but loads are 100% on the MIA-TLV flight. What about yields?
52 LAXIntl : Per DOT stats in 2007, average LF per month. TLV-MIA Jan - 92.0% Feb - 82.0% Mar - 87.3% Apr - 76.6% May - 75.5% Jun - 90.7% Jul - 93.0% Aug - 89.8%
53 OOer : Looks like there will be more people doing MIA-ATL/JFK-TLV and get on a DL bird!
54 LAXdude1023 : I think we can determine that yields werent the best because LY is leaving. But I had always heard (from people other than Mark) that loads were good
55 MAH4546 : Argue it all you want. You're wrong, because the loads were strong, as LAXIntl points out.
56 B752OS : This may or may not be an obvious question, if they have below an 85% load factor and were sending a 762 on the route, what good would sending a larg
57 MAH4546 : Sending a larger aircraft also allows for the airline to more properly distribute the booking classes, and they can offer a lower average fare to att
58 FlyDreamliner : It's not fair to call it an inefficient gas guzzler. It's a small longhauler. As aircraft get larger, generally the per-seat cost goes down. For thin
59 IAD380 : LY is continuing to fly to YYZ, where it seems to face strong competition from AC, but it is withdrawing from MIA, where it has no direct competitor.
60 MAH4546 : Well, for one thing, the 763s used to Toronto are more efficient and cheaper to operate. However, when El Al warned a few months ago that Miami fligh
61 MIAMIx707 : I don't doubt you but might be assuming the EL AL 742 was a common sight at MIA. just because you happened to see it there. If it was common for a we
62 IAD380 : Does the 763 have the capability to fly nonstop to MIA?
63 MAH4546 : No, not really. They could, maybe, if they put a significant cap on cargo and passengers (i.e. only sell 130 seats).
64 DUALRATED : At least 3x a week is common yes. I don't understand this statement. The 744's are their own metal. and you say Well which one is it..... never.....s
65 Amirs : Loads were not so so strong lately but the problems was with the yields. Thats obvious and that the whole point, only a 772 can make this route work
66 MAH4546 : At $140 fuel, sure. When fuel is sub-$100, they'll probably be able to, just like the 762ER worked at cheaper oil. MIA-TLV is a price sensitive marke
67 Post contains links and images MIAMIx707 : lol@ the years you said you saw it I used to go to the airport all the time (more than 3 times a week) since I used to live very close. At what time
68 ELAL 744 : The former TWA workers at TLV were all very senior; having worked for TWA many years and their severance pay would have been very high not to mention
69 Post contains images DUALRATED : Returning to the LY MIA flights:[ quote from ELAL 744] I worked for a company that on 3 separate occasions in the 1990s chartered El Al aircraft to f
70 Post contains links MIAMIx707 : Yes, a grand total of TWO times in the span of the 1990s, (that sounds nothing like 3 times a week during 1999-2000) and once with a 744 (which I did
71 DUALRATED : First you say, Quoting DUALRATED (Reply 69): Hmm Never huh, well I saw it, now it seems we have someone that rode on the classic at MIA. Very interest
72 MIAMIx707 : If you read the thread closely you'd see I wrote that there used to be a picture of a passenger EL AL 742 at MIA taking during the 90s (possibly the
73 DUALRATED : Wow that's not saying much because One thing is for sure, I know more than you!!! Contradiction again! But I thought it was Never Period! Again waiti
74 Post contains links Amirs : You can argue it further if you want to or not, i really dot care. I just dont want other members here to get the wrong information. Those 80% loads
75 MAH4546 : Again, we know the loads. LAXIntl posted them. Even when they went to 3x weekly, loads were fine. The obvious problem was yields in a price sensitive
76 Lemurs : I'm not sure why everyone is so dismissive of the plane siezure idea. One of the primary methods used by creditors to get value back from their debtor
77 MIAMIx707 : It seems the S.Florida market just isn't as big/profitable for EL AL, and as has been said not justifiable under these fuel prices. They starting sen
78 DUALRATED : The offical reasons of leaving MIA. EL AL CEO Haim Romano said: "As part of EL AL's strategy to optimize its flight schedule, the airline has decided
79 Viscount724 : If memory correct, LY's first service to MIA, probably in the late '70s or early '80s, was via Montreal (then Mirabel airport, YMX). Montreal-based C
80 Amirs : and u claim i am childish .... They were fine for who? Not for EL AL. EL AL has not been happy with the route from the end of last year. There you ha
81 LAXdude1023 : That may be, but according to the loads posted by LAXintl, they seem just fine. My bet is that it was the yields, not the load as to why this route i
82 MIAMIx707 : Had you posted what is already known, 78 posts earlier instead of trying to argue about nonsense it would've been nice The yields were likely about t
83 DUALRATED : WHAT!!! bro you really have got to stop making things up, and stop labeling things you clearly don't understand. First of all EL AL is not the airlin
84 TodaReisinger : MIAMIx707 From Cuba, joined Oct 2003, 4067 posts, RR: 27 Reply 43, posted Thu Jul 3 2008 20:12:58 UTC (1 week 4 days 10 hours 1 minute ago) and read 2
85 Post contains images MIAMIx707 : TodaReisinger, here you go: [Edited 2008-07-15 12:11:51]
86 MIAMIx707 : ok, so.. someone deleted the picture, hopefully you saw it I guess I broke some rule... or something
87 Post contains links Viscount724 : LY announced today that they've sold two 767-200ERs, both built 1983. Probably their oldest. http://in.reuters.com/article/asiaCo...nyAndMarkets/idIN
88 DUALRATED : Interesting their two oldest 767's are from 1983 but they are not ER's, the only two that are not. Wonder if thats a typo in the headline, although i
89 Viscount724 : I wasn't aware that LY had any non-ER 762s so my reference to -200ER may be incorrect. I just assumed that's what they were. From a quick check it lo
90 DUALRATED : I thought It was either the oldest 4X-EAA and 4X-EAB, or the two ex Air France ER's, 4X-EAE and 4X-EAF. They have a few non ER 757's I wonder if they
91 IAD380 : Sounds like LY is getting rid of the route to MIA and the aircraft that flies there. I would not be surprised if JNB is the next route that LY axes.
92 DUALRATED : Don't worry, The two aircraft sold have never been to MIA for one. And I don't think LY is putting J-Burg is near an axe anytime soon.
93 TodaReisinger : Many thanks, but I still couldn't see the pic !!
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
EL AL MIA-TLV Non Stop On A 767-200 posted Mon Nov 12 2007 14:01:24 by AirOne
El Al Increasing MIA-TLV posted Sun Oct 22 2006 06:55:39 by MAH4546
LY 005/006 TLV-LAX-TLV 777 posted Sun Jul 23 2006 20:25:35 by HAVIK747
Finally: El Al To Being MIA-TLV Non-stop Service posted Sat Jan 7 2006 04:31:32 by MAH4546
LY Emergency Landing @ TLV posted Wed Sep 21 2005 02:16:34 by FlyingDove
TLV-CDG-TLV:LY 323/324 Only With 777s From March posted Mon Jan 14 2008 07:28:43 by LY777
Near Mid-air Collision At TLV LY & IB posted Thu Feb 8 2007 19:19:35 by BWI757
TLV-CDG: What Is LY Doing? posted Wed Jan 31 2007 11:00:11 by LY777
New: LY To Seoul; Korean To TLV posted Thu Oct 12 2006 11:17:10 by Amirs
MIA: Aug06 Traffic Up; LY Gets 100% LF posted Mon Oct 9 2006 02:29:55 by MAH4546