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Why Can't Northwest Retain It's Name  
User currently offlineWarren747sp From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1152 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 7282 times:

It looks like the Delta-NW merger will eventually go through. As an elite member with NW for many years I was wondering what can't Delta lets NW keep it's seperate brand identity as per Air France-KLM. They are making decent profits while keeping KLM passengers happy and satisfied.


747SP
71 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDL767captain From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 7241 times:

I think what DL and NW were looking for was a full out merger. Delta seems to be the top dog in the merger which i think is good, they can bring a lot to NW like IFE (i still don't understand how they have no IFE although it doesnt seem to be hurting them) along with great management.

User currently offlineTristanHNL From Hong Kong, joined Apr 2006, 174 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 7214 times:



Quoting DL767captain (Reply 1):
they can bring a lot to NW like IFE (i still don't understand how they have no IFE although it doesnt seem to be hurting them) along with great management.

NW does have IFE, albeit not on every aircraft. In fact they got a really good AVOD system on their A330's. Most people I know who've ridden in one love the system.



Hong Kong: truly Asia's world city!
User currently offlineDL Widget Head From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 2086 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 7200 times:



Quoting TristanHNL (Reply 2):
In fact they got a really good AVOD system on their A330's. Most people I know who've ridden in one love the system.

I rode on one a couple of months ago and thoght they're AVOD system was great.

Quoting Warren747sp (Thread starter):
I was wondering what can't Delta lets NW keep it's seperate brand identity as per Air France-KLM.

I'm pretty sure that if AF could get around the complex nationalistic issues, they would prefer an all out merger with KL as well.


User currently offlineNwaesc From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3383 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (6 years 4 weeks ago) and read 7176 times:



Quoting Warren747sp (Thread starter):
I was wondering what can't Delta lets NW keep it's seperate brand identity as per Air France-KLM.

Because that would be too easy....



"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlineMisbeehavin From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 914 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (6 years 4 weeks ago) and read 7098 times:

With AF & KL, there were a bunch of issues that aren't applicable to the DL & NW deal, specifically because AF and KL are registered in different countries. In addition to bilateral issues (would a French airline be alowed to use a Dutch airline's rights?) there was also the need to maintain each carrier's separate national identity.

User currently offlinePlaneHunter From Germany, joined Mar 2006, 6716 posts, RR: 77
Reply 6, posted (6 years 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 7019 times:



Quoting TristanHNL (Reply 2):
NW does have IFE, albeit not on every aircraft. In fact they got a really good AVOD system on their A330's. Most people I know who've ridden in one love the system.



Quoting DL Widget Head (Reply 3):
I rode on one a couple of months ago and thoght they're AVOD system was great.

Very true, NWA's AVOD system on the A330s is excellent.


PH



Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
User currently offlineBrilondon From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 4132 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (6 years 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 6974 times:

Why would NW keep its name? They were essentially bought out by DL. If you hadn't noticed the headquarters of the airline is in Atlanta not Minneapolis. There is a certain reputation NW has in DTW that it is not a great airline. In my experience NW has been less then stellar at their customer service and in talking with several people who fly it regularly they concur. My last flight with them and I hope it is my last flight with NW was one of the worst experiences I have had with an airline. This was not the first time I have had bad service with NW. I hope it will be my last.  Sad It is sad to think in a country which prides itself on its competitive nature that this kind of bad service still exists.


Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4387 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (6 years 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 6814 times:

The winner takes it all. The loser gets killed. The way all Barbarians have done it...

Of course the new Delta will have a lower market share than DL and NW have now together, and make higher losses, but the management involved will have its "handling fee".


User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5008 posts, RR: 21
Reply 9, posted (6 years 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 6779 times:

The only instances of the acquiring airline taking the name of the acquired airline that I can remember offhand was Texas International/Continental and ValuJet/AirTran. Those two situations being much different than the DL/NW tie-up, which is more of a proper merger than an outright acquisition, but the DL folks are in the driver's seat nonetheless.

There may be a few others.



Next Up: STL-LGA-RIC-ATL-STL
User currently offlinePar13del From Bahamas, joined Dec 2005, 7067 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (6 years 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 6755 times:



Quoting Warren747sp (Thread starter):
It looks like the Delta-NW merger will eventually go through. As an elite member with NW for many years I was wondering what can't Delta lets NW keep it's seperate brand identity as per Air France-KLM. They are making decent profits while keeping KLM passengers happy and satisfied

Hope I do not sound harsh, but those who run NW are not like you, their loyalty is to the shareholders, they could care less about the airline and its loyal travellers, if DL offers them shares in a farm which provides greater share value than the airline they will take that and be done with it. Shareholders are in it for the money obtained from the value of their shares, what it is invested in as long as it is leagal is of no concern.

My opinion, and not those of this web site, its owners or subsidiaries.


User currently offlineIsitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 24
Reply 11, posted (6 years 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 6755 times:



Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 9):

A company called Texas Air owned Continental and Eastern. Frank Lorenzo ran Texas Air.
The two airlines took their marching orders from Texas Air.

Value-jet bought a small airline called airTran and used their name. The name Value-jet went away.

safe



If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
User currently offlineMeta From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 337 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 6726 times:



Quoting TristanHNL (Reply 2):
NW does have IFE, albeit not on every aircraft. In fact they got a really good AVOD system on their A330's.

I agree, NW has fantastic AVOD on their A330's.


User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5008 posts, RR: 21
Reply 13, posted (6 years 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 6700 times:



Quoting Isitsafenow (Reply 11):


A company called Texas Air owned Continental and Eastern. Frank Lorenzo ran Texas Air.
The two airlines took their marching orders from Texas Air.

Actually, Lorenzo was an investor in a company called Jet Capital, which in 1972 acquired a controlling interest in Texas International, from which the Texas Air empire was built. The Texas Air Holding Company was set up in 1980 as a vehicle for acquisition. So your are correct technically, but Texas International was the springboard.

Quoting Isitsafenow (Reply 11):


Value-jet bought a small airline called airTran and used their name. The name Value-jet went away.

It was ValuJet, not Value-jet. And that was simply a maneuver to do away with a media-sullied name brought about by the Everglades crash, which incidentally, VJ was found not to be directly responsible for.



Next Up: STL-LGA-RIC-ATL-STL
User currently offlineWesternA318 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 5647 posts, RR: 24
Reply 14, posted (6 years 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 6685 times:

Also, AirTran was originally set up by either Northwest or Mesaba, I forgot which, then summarily spun off


Next trip: SLC-LAX-JFK-LAX-SLC on AA, gotta say goodbye to my beloved 762!
User currently offlineUPSMD11 From United States of America, joined May 2003, 807 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (6 years 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 6677 times:

Didn't HP take the US name as well, with HP being the controlling airline in that merger?

Cheers,
John


User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5008 posts, RR: 21
Reply 16, posted (6 years 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 6535 times:



Quoting UPSMD11 (Reply 15):


Didn't HP take the US name as well, with HP being the controlling airline in that merger?

Indeed, and that was a very recent example.  old  Maybe the mind is the first thing to go....



Next Up: STL-LGA-RIC-ATL-STL
User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6483 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (6 years 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 6522 times:

I think you'll see the Northwest name being used for one of the company-owned feeders...maybe Compass->Northwest?


When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (6 years 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6464 times:



Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 14):
Also, AirTran was originally set up by either Northwest or Mesaba, I forgot which, then summarily spun off

I think you're confusing them with someone else...  Wink


User currently offlineMayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10351 posts, RR: 14
Reply 19, posted (6 years 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6423 times:



Quoting UPSMD11 (Reply 15):
Didn't HP take the US name as well, with HP being the controlling airline in that merger?

Part of the deal of US' hostile takeover attempt of DL was that the airline would retain DL's name.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineMovingtin From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 183 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (6 years 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6412 times:



Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 13):
which incidentally, VJ was found not to be directly responsible for.

BS


User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5008 posts, RR: 21
Reply 21, posted (6 years 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6357 times:



Quoting Movingtin (Reply 20):


BS

Read the report, SabreTech was at fault.



http://www.airdisaster.com/cgi-bin/v...=05111996®=N904VJ&airline=Valujet



Next Up: STL-LGA-RIC-ATL-STL
User currently offlinePorkchop From Canada, joined Jun 2008, 18 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (6 years 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6298 times:

How long till we see A330s and 747s in Delta colours? That would be cool!

User currently offlineMovingtin From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 183 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (6 years 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6293 times:



Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 21):
Read the report, SabreTech was at fault

not to hijack thread, But:

Do a little research, A factually incorrect statement on "airdisaster.com" does not allow you to make your above statement. It was Valujet's responsibility!


User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5008 posts, RR: 21
Reply 24, posted (6 years 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6235 times:



Quoting Movingtin (Reply 23):


Do a little research, A factually incorrect statement on "airdisaster.com" does not allow you to make your above statement. It was Valujet's responsibility!

http://www.ntsb.gov/pressrel/1997/970819B.htm

Contributing to the accident, the Board found, was the failure of the FAA to adequately monitor ValuJet’s heavy maintenance program and responsibilities, including ValuJet’s oversight of its contractors, and SabreTech’s repair station certificate; the failure of the FAA to adequately respond to earlier chemical oxygen generator fires with programs to address the potential hazards they posed (the Board cited 6 cases in the 10 years before the ValuJet accident involving fires caused by oxygen generators); and the failure of ValuJet to ensure that both ValuJet and contract maintenance employees were aware of the airline’s "no-carry" hazardous materials policy and had received appropriate hazardous materials training.

The expired oxygen generators had been removed from three ValuJet MD-80 aircraft undergoing maintenance at SabreTech. The Board’s investigation revealed that, although many of the SabreTech mechanics who removed the generators understood the danger they could pose, the generators were nevertheless delivered to SabreTech’s shipping and receiving department without communicating what the items were, or that they were hazardous. Rather than dispose of the generators properly or at least fit them with safety caps designed to prevent their accidental activation, they were boxed up and sent to ValuJet in order to clean up the maintenance area in preparation for a visit by a prospective customer. In addition, they were incorrectly labeled "Oxy Generators - Empty."

The Safety Board concluded that the lack of a formal system in SabreTech’s shipping and receiving department, including procedures for tracking the handling and disposition of hazardous materials, contributed to the improper transportation of the generators aboard flight 592.

ValuJet, for its part, did not oversee SabreTech adequately, the Board said. Had it ensured that SabreTech’s employees were trained on the company’s lack of authority to transport hazardous materials and had received hazardous materials recognition training, SabreTech might not have mishandled the packaging and shipment of the oxygen generators.

The Board also cited the FAA’s failure to require smoke detection and fire suppression systems in Class D cargo holds, despite recommendations the NTSB issued in 1988, following a fire in the cargo hold of an American Airlines DC-9 in Nashville, Tennessee. Because of the FAA’s continued assertions that retrofitting the more than 2,500 airliners in the U.S. that had such cargo compartments would not be justified on a cost/benefit basis, those recommendations were closed "Unacceptable Action" by the Board in 1993.

In its final report today, the Board concluded, "Had the FAA required fire/smoke detection and and/or fire extinguishment systems in Class D cargo compartments, as the Safety Board recommended in 1988, ValuJet flight 592 would likely not have crashed."


It seems there was plenty of blame to go around, with the FAA and SabreTech as well as ValuJet's maintenance oversight procedures. It was however, SabreTech which was held criminally liable. But to put the entire blame, and thus "responsibility" on ValuJet is as oversimplified as my initial statement was. I am "allowed" however to make any statement I want provided it falls within the forum rules. Now....back to the topic at hand.



Next Up: STL-LGA-RIC-ATL-STL
25 JettaKnight : All the debate about past mergers, and which airline name survived misses the OP's point. His question is why NW and DL can't keep their separate iden
26 Mir : And this is exhibit A of why the industry is in such low esteem these days. -Mir
27 EXAAUADL : Well, think the reason that KLM is a spearate entity is that there is some national identity associated with KLM. That isnt true with NW. Also It mig
28 Gigneil : Letting them keep their brand is both pointless and expensive. NS
29 DeltaL1011man : Good post. I'm sure you will get flamed but I think sometimes people forget the airlines are a business and they have to do what is best for the Shar
30 Nomadd22 : The fact that most people equate fault with responsibility is pretty sad. Being SabreTech's fault didn't relieve ValueJet of the responsibility to op
31 FlyPBA : The only merger that I can think of where the purchasing company changes its name to the company they were buying was TexasAir That airline and Contin
32 Brilondon : When US was takeover...merged with HP they retained the name US. I know this was not a popular statement but show me again how US took over HP and wo
33 Lambert747 : Unfortunately the US Air/Airways branding came/comes with a very tarnished image. An image that not even America West Airlines management is able to
34 Burnsie28 : I wish it remained NW, since they have more history, I like the name a lot more and NW is the oldest carrier.
35 FlyPBA : forgot all about USAirways
36 474218 : Northwest is doing neither.
37 AvConsultant : Which ValuJet operated under the watchful eye and guidance of the FAA. The crash occurred in the middle of the FAA National Aviation Safety Inspectio
38 Skibum9 : If IFE is a main motivator or benefit of a merger, we are all doomed! In the grand scheme of this merger, IFE is very low on the priorities. If you a
39 Phileet92 : SO sad to see the red tails go. personally, i like their colors over delta. =D Anywho, anyone know whats going to happen with the FFPs?
40 SYfan100 : Delta wants to buy Northwest what it all comes down to in the end. Now some questions to think about in general. 1.Is that a good thing with buying? 2
41 DL767captain : You want me to read!? haha, i know it's not the motivator of the merge but it is definitely a benefit of the merger.
42 Chgoflyer : I really liked Pan Am and think the name/logo is stronger than anyother in the the worldwide airline industry. However their assests were purchased b
43 Expressjetphx : HP/US as some others have mentioned. I would rather see the new airline take on the Northwest brand even if only because I see it as more consistent.
44 Alitalia744 : Understand that you are an effervescent Delta Fanboy - but you don't know for sure that "Northwest" is coming to an end fast.... The Air Line will be
45 Lambert747 : There is always a first time for everything.. In reference to the merger there are a lot exciting things that will come out of the merger. We are not
46 Alitalia744 : Exactly Lambert747 - today's Delta/NWA looks nothing like what tomorrow's Delta will look like if they pull-off everything they're trying to with exc
47 Lambert747 : The "Suites" are going to be the first of its kind for a US airline. It will be enough of a push to make other airlines in the market invest in the pr
48 MD-90 : It's true. AirTran was founded in 1993 by AirTran Corporation, which was the holding company of Mesaba at the time. In 1995 AirTran was spun off by M
49 Expressjetphx : Delta Air Service was formed in 1928 and named after its operating region: the Mississippi Delta. Delta is obviously not tied down by the geographica
50 Mir : Why would AF want to give away one of its premium routes to DL? AF's relationship with DL is not like NW's is with KL. -Mir
51 DeltaL1011man : It is now. With the new JV its doesn't matter if DL or AF flys the route because all the profit its put into a pool and DL gets half and AF gets the
52 M404 : I quess it would depend on perceived benifis to the CEOs and board members. By that I mean a company controlled as a single entity by DL can go ahead
53 FX1816 : Sorry to interject but this is in regard to the ValuJet statements: I very much agree with you that had ValuJet operated properly they would possibly
54 Warren747sp : I can see the justification for cost saving argument. But didn't AF just report record profit of combined AF/KLM operation recently.?
55 Mayor : I hope this works. I can remember when DL still had First/Business/Coach service on the Tristars across the pond. Of all the times I flew on them unt
56 Brilondon : Yes NW goes all the way back to the late 70's right after deregulation.
57 Mayor : ????
58 Bobnwa : [quote=Brilondon,reply=56]Yes NW goes all the way back to the late 70's right after deregulation. What are you talking about? NWA is the oldest airlin
59 Gigneil : Like 15 minutes more. NS
60 Bobnwa : [quote=Brilondon,reply=56]Yes NW goes all the way back to the late 70's right after deregulation. What are you talking about? NWA is the oldest airlin
61 NCB : Perhaps the incapable managers at Northwest don't know it but... North-West can be a very disturbing name for many superstitious Asian passengers. The
63 Bobnwa : For your info NWA has bee flying to Japan longer than any other airline including JAL and ANA and has had Japanese national as managers for over 50 y
64 Brilondon : The name Northwest Airlines I am referring to is the product of the merger of North Central, Southern (which were Republic airlines) and Northwest OR
65 NCB : That's like saying that KIA Motors was around for over 60 years and is therefore popular or succesful, which is a lie. NW has been around for long bu
66 Viscount724 : Delta is also easier to pronounce than Northwest in some languages other than English. The "th" sound is a particular problem since that English sound
67 SYfan100 : Northwest started out bye flying mail in 1926. Over the years of course they had a different name at one time before changing it to just Northwest. A
68 Mir : Wasn't aware of that, but I still don't think you'll see the status quo change much - DL will fly a couple of flights JFK-CDG, and AF will take the m
69 WesternA318 : The "Orient" in Northwest Orient was always a marketing trick, I doubt it was ever a part of their formal entity name.
70 Viscount724 : Correct, "Orient" was only a marketing name. It was never part of their official corporate name. At the time of the merger with Republic, they were l
71 Bobnwa : So have I been there, and believe me NWA knows what it is doing in Japan, and has been doing it longer. Do Americans refuse to fly on the 13th of any
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