Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Idea Of How To Bring The Y1 And NSR Sooner  
User currently offlineDL767captain From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2539 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2890 times:

With Boeing and Airbus not planning on bringing these planes out until around 2020 and the Cseries getting beefed up and the E190 being pretty popular Boeing and Airbus could lose market share if Bombardier or Embraer decided to make a larger variant.

I'm sure Boeing and Airbus have at least a pretty good idea about the design for the new planes but as Boeing has stated are waiting for new engines to make them even more efficient. So why not build the new aircraft with current engines or new GTF engines, but make them ready for the newer engines that would come out in 2020 or so the planes already in service could be upgraded.

I know they both have an extensive backlog but i'm sure the airlines would move to the new frame if it even offered 6% better fuel economy versus the current generations, they could even work out an upgrade price with the engine manufacturers when the future versions come out.

9 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12360 posts, RR: 25
Reply 1, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2872 times:

Let's start with these questions:
- Who can be sure if there will be new engines in 2020?
- What do you do with the old engines that cost millions of $$ to buy?
- How can you be sure the undesigned engines will interface to the new plane?
- Why would you want to curtail 737/A320 sales till you have a complete replacement?



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineDL767captain From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2825 times:



Quoting Revelation (Reply 1):
Let's start with these questions:
- Who can be sure if there will be new engines in 2020?

You can't but the engine companies like GE can work towards the new engines, they could even be available sooner

Quoting Revelation (Reply 1):
- What do you do with the old engines that cost millions of $$ to buy?

That's where the airlines have the option to keep the engines that came with the plane or they can upgrade.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 1):
- How can you be sure the undesigned engines will interface to the new plane?

Because there will be a standard set by Boeing and Airbus for how the engines should interface with the jets, then the engine companies will have to meet those requirements

Quoting Revelation (Reply 1):
- Why would you want to curtail 737/A320 sales till you have a complete replacement?

Because with the CSeries coming out it wouldn't be that hard for them to make a larger variant that could be much more efficient and could take away from 737 and A320 orders.


User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 3, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2808 times:

What do you then do with all those planes with the older engine?

And why would anyone buy anything they knew was already being obsoleted?

NS


User currently offlineHawkerCamm From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2007, 405 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2766 times:

If Airbus put the GTF on the A320family I'd expect BCA to start work on the B737 replacement and then Airbus to follow with a A320GTF replacement...

A320GTF EIS2012/13
B737RS EIS2018 (limited by engine availablity)
A320GTF replacement EIS2020

2012 to 2018 could be hard years for BCA

[Edited 2008-07-03 13:02:58]

User currently offlineDL767captain From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2729 times:



Quoting Gigneil (Reply 3):
What do you then do with all those planes with the older engine?

You keep them, you can either upgrade the engines or keep the current engines, the update to the body of the aircraft alone would still make the aircraft more efficient even without the new engines.

Quoting HawkerCamm (Reply 4):
If Airbus put the GTF on the A320family I'd expect BCA to start work on the B737 replacement and then Airbus to follow with a A320GTF replacement...

Is the problem with putting the GTF on the 737 because it's strange engine shape due to it being so low to the ground?


User currently offlineSeaBosDca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5333 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2723 times:

Quoting DL767captain (Reply 5):
Is the problem with putting the GTF on the 737 because it's strange engine shape due to it being so low to the ground?

Ground clearance, yes. A GTF of equivalent thrust will have a bigger fan than existing 737/320 engines. And giving the 737 more ground clearance would be, well, non-trivial (as well as compromise some of its operational advantages over the existing A320 series).

[Edited 2008-07-03 14:02:44]

User currently offlineDL767captain From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2695 times:



Quoting SeaBosDca (Reply 6):
Ground clearance, yes. A GTF of equivalent thrust will have a bigger fan than existing 737/320 engines. And giving the 737 more ground clearance would be, well, non-trivial (as well as compromise some of its operational advantages over the existing A320 series).

Well i'm guessing Boeing can not extend the landing gear of the 737s is there any way they could make a GTF fit onto a 737 through any type of modifications.


User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2680 times:



Quoting DL767captain (Thread starter):
Idea Of How To Bring The Y1 And NSR Sooner

Well, A couple of factor may help:


- Fuel prices going north of $200 per barrel
- airlines decimating existing backlogs and stopping ordering
- media labelling A & B dirty because they don't want to replace 20 year old design
- 150 seat versions of CSeries, Superjet, ARJ
- generous direct and indirect government innovation budgets
- Pratt making the GTF a successtory with Bombardier, Embraer, OAK and MHI


User currently offlineSeaBosDca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5333 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (6 years 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2675 times:



Quoting DL767captain (Reply 7):
Well i'm guessing Boeing can not extend the landing gear of the 737s is there any way they could make a GTF fit onto a 737 through any type of modifications.

By building a new airframe the size of a 737...  Wink

Seriously, putting bigger fans on a 737 is essentially impossible... and without a bigger fan, there's no point to adding a gearbox.


Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
How To Find The Profit Or Loss Of An Airline? posted Fri Apr 7 2006 18:39:59 by JoeCattoli
How To Find The Registration Of An A/c? (Delta) posted Fri Sep 3 2004 00:10:08 by MCIB757
How To Tell The Difference Between 741 And 742? posted Wed Dec 26 2001 18:16:46 by Airplanetire
How To Cure The "fear Of Flying"? posted Sat Feb 17 2001 19:02:28 by Fear_of_fly
How To Load The B747-4J6(LCF) posted Wed Aug 23 2006 14:18:53 by A346
How To Get The Miles? posted Fri Apr 7 2006 21:09:51 by SDWranglers
How To Reach The Guys Up Top posted Thu Mar 2 2006 08:28:28 by Kaktusdigital
AF188 15/16 Feb..... How To Check The Reg? posted Thu Feb 16 2006 11:19:07 by N754PR
Russia - How To Book Domestic Flights And Trains posted Mon Feb 6 2006 10:41:14 by Airevents
Lufthansa To Bring The A333 Into IAH posted Sun Aug 28 2005 09:54:35 by Wdleiser