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Spirit Trims Schedule And Applies For Manaus, Braz  
User currently offlineMIAUA777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 45 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 6019 times:

Looks like Spirit is joining the rest of the airlines by parking planes and cutting money losing routes. The Manaus application is very exciting though.

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/080703/clth053.html?.v=101

68 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32789 posts, RR: 72
Reply 1, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 6025 times:

No surprise they applied for Manaus service. They'll be awarded it, too.

Also, today that DOT rejected the blanket dormancy waiver by other airlines, I fully expect Spirit to apply for CO's CLO frequencies; B6's BOG frequencies; and CO's GYE frequencies.

Still though, it's important to point out that the cuts are not all that bad. Spirit will not grow this year, but they are not shrinking year-over-year either: year-over-year capacity will be flat.

[Edited 2008-07-03 15:36:05]


a.
User currently offlineJoelfreak From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 43 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 5950 times:

No, but this will hurt ISP a bunch...makes it basically WN only, with a couple of US thrown in for good measure.

User currently offlineN587NK From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 301 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 5857 times:
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boy ISP didnt last long. I heard but dont know if its true or not, it averaged about 40 pax per flight. Its sad to see the furloughs. We had 2 classes of F/As graduate a month ago and are getting furloughed. Im sure its going to get worse before it gets better for all airlines. Lets just hope it does getter better, in time.

User currently offlinePRAirbus From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2005, 1139 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 5816 times:

They definitely do not give up...NK is not doing well at all. How can they apply for Manaus and AA has not been able to start MIA-MAO or other Brazilian destinations? NK is trashing the markets w/lextra low fares.

User currently offlineAirborne1 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 99 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 5723 times:

Yes-- who is NK trying to fool in this oil market.

Something is gotta give. Saying they are in the best position over any carrier to expand.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32789 posts, RR: 72
Reply 6, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 5725 times:



Quoting PRAirbus (Reply 4):
and AA has not been able to start MIA-MAO or other Brazilian destinations?

AA can now apply for those markets just like Spirit.



a.
User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 5690 times:

The LFCs may get some access in the new Brazilian treaty but they will not walk away with huge chunks of it. AA and DL can use much bigger aircraft and serve more of the US. The LFCs will be given a presence just to make sure the network carriers don't look like they are controlling the market but there is alot of Brazil that is well beyond the range of anything any US LFC can fly.

User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32789 posts, RR: 72
Reply 8, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 5680 times:



Quoting Airborne1 (Reply 5):
Yes-- who is NK trying to fool in this oil market.

Something is gotta give. Saying they are in the best position over any carrier to expand.

People love to trash Spirit, but they really aren't in that bad a position. We don't know their 1Q financial since they are a private company, but their CEO claimed they made money in the first quarter.

They have a fuel efficient fleet and a network that is increasingly becoming concentrated on Latin America and the Caribbean, where break-even load factors are typically low, competition is limited, and traffic continues to be strong.

I do think they make a prime takeover target, though. Their FLL hub is quite a valuable asset.



a.
User currently offlineAirborne1 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 99 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 5669 times:

Give spirit some time... As the price of oil keeps jumping we will all see where spirit really ends up..

User currently offlineFlyboy7974 From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 1540 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 5508 times:

Quick reference to the ISP comment, here they are losing Spirit, but isn't ISP in the spotlight on every airline's cut list. Not this past announcement, but just prior, ISP took a hit with the SWA flight reductions when they were trimming their schedule and realigning to meet demand.

On the Spirit topic, I've been looking online and just can't find it anywhere, but can anybody tell me what their fleet is currently before they eliminate the 5 A319? I just saw one of their A321 in a picture heading for Australia and didn't realize that Spirit was already getting rid of the A321. Do they have the A321 still or are they gone as well and if anybody on there knows Spirit that well, can they help me with a little fleet breakdown maybe past 6 months to now to projected. Thanks all


User currently offlineA330300 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 172 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 5473 times:

N587NK and N588NK are the two remaining A321s in the fleet.

User currently offlineCaribbean484 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Jan 2007, 2638 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 5437 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 8):
People love to trash Spirit, but they really aren't in that bad a position. We don't know their 1Q financial since they are a private company, but their CEO claimed they made money in the first quarter.

While I really don't have much respect for NK they are a very competitive airline and brings relief to flyers in terms of fares.
According to the DOT they lost US$5m for the first quater with revenues increased by 31% over the same period last year, while cost went up by 27%.
Thier yields however is a huge cause for concern, their yields dropped by 11%, RASM down 5% hoewver their CASM was down 11%.



All ah we is one family
User currently offlineMSYtristar From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 6570 posts, RR: 50
Reply 13, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 5433 times:

I'm still suprised to see SAT-FLL hang on since it'll only be 1x daily come September.

User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8376 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 5233 times:
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I find it interesting Spirit wants ro fly to Markets 4 and 5 hours from FLL. Spirit already flies from FLL to Lima, Peru with A319's. Manaus has to be 5 hours flying time from FLL, why does this airline want to serve this route.

User currently offlineIncitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4015 posts, RR: 13
Reply 15, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 5128 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 8):
We don't know their 1Q financial since they are a private company, but their CEO claimed they made money in the first quarter.

Repeating myself: All airline routes are profitable until they are cut for "lack of equipment". I'd expect even bolder statements than the above coming from Spirit. Had they been profitable, they would not be looking at lopping off two thirds of their operation this Fall.

Spirit getting FLL-MAO is a waste of frequencies. MIA-MAO is served by TAM and Spirit will replicate their service with less connectivity. The frequencies are better used at Brazilian cities that currently lack daily nonstop service to the United States.

Finally, Manaus is not Lima. There is little immigrant traffic to MAO.



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User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32789 posts, RR: 72
Reply 16, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 5120 times:



Quoting Incitatus (Reply 15):


Finally, Manaus is not Lima. There is little immigrant traffic to MAO.

But there is a fair amount of tourist traffic, and Spirit will be able to exploit that and advertise Manaus as a tourist destination, which they have successfully been doing with flights to Cartagena.

They can also exploit Manaus' position as a growing hub for northern Brazil.



a.
User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9823 posts, RR: 11
Reply 17, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 5068 times:



Quoting Incitatus (Reply 15):
Had they been profitable, they would not be looking at lopping off two thirds of their operation this Fall.

Two third of their operation? Which other cities will be cut?

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 15):
Spirit getting FLL-MAO is a waste of frequencies. MIA-MAO is served by TAM and Spirit will replicate their service with less connectivity.

Who says NK is looking for connectivity on that route? As MAH4546 states I think NK will focus on their own market which is tourists coming from the U.S. Connectivity within Brazil is not an issue here as they're probably not looking for that.

A388


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32789 posts, RR: 72
Reply 18, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 5054 times:



Quoting A388 (Reply 17):
Quoting Incitatus (Reply 15):
Had they been profitable, they would not be looking at lopping off two thirds of their operation this Fall.

Two third of their operation? Which other cities will be cut?

Just ignore him, he has no idea what he is talking about.

Spirit Airlines capacity in December 2008 will be identical to December 2007. Very few other U.S. airlines can claim that.



a.
User currently offlineAF086 From France, joined Jan 2007, 1059 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 5053 times:

I wonder how the loads of CM's PTY-MAO flight will be affected by this new service to the US.


Please insert a "smart" joke here.
User currently offlineRICARIZA From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2391 posts, RR: 26
Reply 20, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 4839 times:

How is NK doing on the CTG route?


I miss ACES, I am proud of AVIANCA & I am loyal to AMERICAN
User currently offline2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 4813 times:



Quoting AF086 (Reply 19):
I wonder how the loads of CM's PTY-MAO flight will be affected by this new service to the US.

Surely the MAO-MIA (if any by then) and somewhat the MAO-MCO traffic will be affected.



I don't work for COPA Airlines!
User currently offlineIncitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4015 posts, RR: 13
Reply 22, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 4791 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 18):
Just ignore him, he has no idea what he is talking about.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

http://www.planebuzz.com/2008/06/spirit_airlines_to_lay_off_as.html

Quoting A388 (Reply 17):
Who says NK is looking for connectivity on that route? As MAH4546 states I think NK will focus on their own market which is tourists coming from the U.S.

There is no viable route between the US and Brazil outside GRU/GIG without connectivity. That's why TAM schedules MIA-MAO-BEL-FOR and relies on a US partner. South Florida won't fill up an airplane per day to Manaus.



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User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9823 posts, RR: 11
Reply 23, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 4760 times:



Quoting Incitatus (Reply 22):
There is no viable route between the US and Brazil outside GRU/GIG without connectivity. That's why TAM schedules MIA-MAO-BEL-FOR and relies on a US partner. South Florida won't fill up an airplane per day to Manaus.

There is no viable route between the US and Brazil outside GRU/GIG without connectivity? Please provide us with relaible facts. Besides NK has there own feed from their own network and the U.S. itself. As I have said NK does not need connectivity in Brazil. They will go for the U.S. (tourist) market.

About the link you provided, it is invalid as no such lay-offs have been announced by NK. I know of that article but it's based on nothing (yet). As I have said before about this article, when NK announces these lay-offs themselves than it is true. This is just an article that anyone can write. Hell, even I can write an article about TAM closing down 2/3 of its network. The article also says that NK "may" lay off the number of personnell mentioned, meaning it is not confirmed. Please read first what the article actually says. It doesn't confirm anything. It might as well happen but let's not jump to conclusions or anything else until NK themselves announce these lay-offs. For now that article is nothing more than an article.

A388


User currently onlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23023 posts, RR: 20
Reply 24, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 4695 times:



Quoting A388 (Reply 23):
I know of that article but it's based on nothing (yet).

I think he missed an important word in the first sentence.

Quote:
The Miami Herald is reporting this morning that privately held Spirit Airlines may lay off or displace as many as 60% of its flight attendants and 45% of its pilots in two months.




I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
25 MAH4546 : " target=_blank>http://www.planebuzz.com/2008/06/spi....html Again, you have no idea what you are talking about. That article is old and was based on
26 2travel2know : It´d be great for MAO, but IMHO, I don't see MAO alone be able to fill a daily B767-300 to MIA (w/passengers, cargo is another ball-game altogether)
27 MAH4546 : There will be some connections, I'm sure, but I have no idea where. Brazilian media reports FOR is set to get a dedicated 3x weekly service; BSB is a
28 Post contains links Caribbean484 : Its not a cause for concern as all airlines are reducing employees, NK will lay off 250 workers so for all those please don't panic and make a huge fu
29 A388 : Agreed, NK is no different than any other airline cutting jobs and reducing capacity and frequency as all airlines in the U.S. are feeling the pain.
30 Lambert747 : This has been stated by you in two threads now and it is getting beyond old. By your method all Brasilians should bow down to any Paulista and Carioc
31 C010T3 : I concur. There were times people said GIG couldn't sustain flights...
32 2travel2know : And those were proven kind of wrong. But, this topic is about MAO not another big major underserved Brazilian city. People, you can't compare the dem
33 MAH4546 : Yes, MAO can, and will, with minimal connecting traffic. Cargo traffic alone can drive it. TAM will feed the flight with retimed MAO-BSB and a new MA
34 2travel2know : I was reffering to passengers, I know cargo on the MIA-MAO-MIA route is a whole different thing.
35 MAH4546 : Cargo is a whole different thing, but it's substantial enough that a light loaded 763 can be profitable thanks to cargo. Therefore, the flight is sus
36 Lambert747 : That was probably a Paulista..
37 LipeGIG : TAM has no connectivity at MIA. Their partner nowadays is UA and it's more than clear UA it's not a dominant airline at MIA. TAM MAO-MIA service focu
38 A388 : This is precisely what I mean. A388
39 SJOtoLIR : Spirit was already awarded on NK BOG-FLL 7x weekly and their operations will begin on July 24th. I concur that they may apply for additional frequenc
40 MAH4546 : Not only did Spirit apply for FLL-MAO, but they have also asked for beyond rights to continue flights from Manaus to Argentina, Chile, Paraguay, and/o
41 2travel2know : Actually the current U.S.-Brazil bilateral allows U.S. airlines 5th rights to those countries. Who would want to fly to EZE, SCL, ASU, MVD from FLL v
42 MaverickM11 : I agree--they have limited LCC exposure, the biggest international schedules of any LCC, allegedly bare bones CASM, and they have a hub that is less
43 MAH4546 : The same kind of people who go on out-of-the-way routings like MCO-PTY-EZE and MIA-PTY-MVD.
44 2travel2know : Not quite, since those who chose to travel those routes manytimes do it because CM flies daily or twice daily at an affordable fare. And moreover, in
45 MAH4546 : Most people don't choose based on immigration procedures and many, outside of business travelers, don't care about double daily. Spirit, if they choo
46 Cubsrule : Chile and Uruguay are open skies, and Argentina has available frequencies. That covers most of the countries that NK can't reach nonstop from FLL.
47 A388 : Even though I have to see it to believe to see NK or any other U.S. based airline fly intra-South American cities from Brazil, MAH4546 does have a po
48 MAH4546 : Yes, I understand that, but Brazil frequencies are tight; and access to Colombia, Ecuador, and Venezuela, other points where they could launch flight
49 Cubsrule : CO too, IIRC. Brazil frequencies are tight. I don't see NK flying from Brazil to anywhere they can reach from FLL, though. MAO is simply too far east
50 MAH4546 : I agree. What I meant is that Ecuador, Colombia, and Venezuela could be jumping off points to go into deep South America (FLL-BOG-GRU, FLL-UIO-EZE, e
51 Cubsrule : Sorry I misunderstood you... I do agree with that. One advantage that NK has routing all of its South America traffic through FLL is that there's no
52 LipeGIG : Would be great. There is no EZE-MAO flight nowadays (in fact even BSB-EZE non stop), and with the traffic rights, Spirit can fly and sell EZE-MAO and
53 SHUPirate1 : If I'm not mistaken, that leaves just US Airways (Piedmont) and Southwest at Islip...correct?
54 A388 : Hi LipeGIG, do you have a link or more information on what the new bilateral agreement between the United States and Brazil covers? Can any foreigh a
55 Post contains links C010T3 : Here you go: http://airlineinfo.com/treaties/49.pdf
56 A388 : " target=_blank>http://airlineinfo.com/treaties/49.pdf Hi C010T3, many thanks for the link you provided but doesn't upload on my screen. Is there any
57 C010T3 : Try "Save Link As..." on that link instead of opening it directly. No, definately not.
58 A388 : I cannot save the link either. Thanks but why not? A388
59 Incitatus : Felipe Sometimes you come across as just being "do contra". It's silly. You are the last guy who would want to fly Spirit. Go on the web and search f
60 MAH4546 : Yet starting this fall, the FOR tag will be discontinued; and FOR is planned to get it's own non-stop in 2009.
61 Incitatus : That's what you are saying. You also said MIA-MAO on TAM was going double daily. It is not.
62 MAH4546 : No, but there was originally a plan to make it double daily. I didn't even say that - JJMNGR - who knows what he is talking about much more than eith
63 Post contains links C010T3 : I uploaded the file to my MediaFire account. See if you can download it from there: http://www.mediafire.com/?do0jwz0zjbj Because the market is unbal
64 Incitatus : That is just not accurate. There are three cities in Brazil with daily nonstop service to the US: Manaus, Rio and Sao Paulo. The new bilateral is ope
65 A388 : " target=_blank>http://www.mediafire.com/?do0jwz0zjbj Many thanks C010T3! I can finally open it! I will read it as soon as I can. I just had a quick
66 SOUTHAMERICA : Add to that the fact that Copa's prices are almost never "right". With the occasional exception, they are usually pretty comparable to the alternativ
67 A388 : " target=_blank>http://www.mediafire.com/?do0jwz0zjbj I just read the pdf file and have the following questions: IMPLEMENTATION NEW BILATERAL AGREEME
68 C010T3 : All I'm saying is that Brazilian airlines and authorities would neve allow open skies in the current market situation where US-airlines dominate the
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