Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Delta Business Class On Transatlantic Flights  
User currently offlineBen88 From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 1093 posts, RR: 3
Posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 11302 times:

Hello,

What routes from ATL to Europe does Delta operate the new business class on. Specifically, what aircraft and business class do they offer on ATL-ATH.

Thanks

47 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 9964 posts, RR: 14
Reply 1, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 11297 times:

Do you mean with the new lie flat seats? If so, probably just ATL-BOM on the 777L. I believe these are the only a/c with those seats.


"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5225 posts, RR: 25
Reply 2, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 11289 times:

Depends on what you mean by "new" business class. If you mean the lie flat seats currently operating on the 77L's then, no there are no Europe routes receiving those. If you're talking about the refreshed BizElite with leather seating, upgraded meal service, etc., IINM all 767s have now been updated.

ATL-ATH operates with a 763.



Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlineIronDuke08 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 117 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 11263 times:

Are you talking about the Flat-Bed product on the 77L? Right now that's only on their two 77Ls which run JFK-BOM. Eventually there will be a flat-bed product on all of the 777s and 764s, and some time after that on 763ERs.

If you're going any time soon, assume that you're going to have the 160 degree leather seat you see on their website. Right now, the flight appears to be scheduled as a 767-300ER.

It's not a bad product, and I've never had any trouble getting comfortable in it. AVOD is pretty good too, although whenever I've been on DL they have never had the 300+ movies that I had on a CO 777 coming back from HKG. The other main complaint is simply that DL's 767 BusinessElite seats are relatively narrow.


User currently offlinePhileet92 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 301 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 11258 times:

Depends, business "suites" (overly used) or business seats? i recall on the 757 services they use the Recaro seats similarly found on the ones available on virgin america. 767s and 777s they use the ones shown on their website. and the 77Ls to BOM are the lie flat "suites"


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Agustin Anaya

757s (trans ATL)
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Agustin Anaya






View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Agustin Anaya

767s & 777s
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Agustin Anaya






View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Agustin Anaya

777LRs
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Royal S King





-phileet92


User currently offlineMayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 9964 posts, RR: 14
Reply 5, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 11195 times:

Can anybody explain this to me? On DL flt 16, ATL-JFK-BOM they show the capacity as this

ATL-JFK 26 business/158 coach

JFK-BOM 43 business/233 coach

Both legs flown with a 777L.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlinePapatango From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 516 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 11190 times:



Quoting Mayor (Reply 5):

[The ATL-JFK leg is flown with a B757-200


User currently offlineEghansen From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 11156 times:



Quoting IronDuke08 (Reply 3):
The other main complaint is simply that DL's 767 BusinessElite seats are relatively narrow.

I can never understand how CO/UA/AA/DL can compete on the transatlantic with European carriers when they fly 767s.

With 7-across seating in coach, business with 6-across seating means there is only an additional 3 inches of seat width. Very skimpy.

With an Airbus 330 series, you go from 8-across seating in coach to 6-across seating in business which adds an additional 6 inches in width.

If you go from 9-across seating on a 777 to 6-across seating in business, you add an additional 9 inches in width. If you go from 9-across seating to 7-across seating, you add an additional 5.25 inches of width.

The 767 is the worst of the bunch.

(PS: for those who live outside the USA, I apologize for the use of inches instead of metric measures, but that is all I learned in school.)


User currently offlineIncitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 3964 posts, RR: 13
Reply 8, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 11122 times:



Quoting Eghansen (Reply 7):
I can never understand how CO/UA/AA/DL can compete on the transatlantic with European carriers when they fly 767s.

Not everything is about how many extra inches. You forgot to mention British Airways, which goes from 9- to 8-abreast in business class while nobody possibly questions their ability to compete for premium passengers.


User currently offlineDL767captain From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 11115 times:



Quoting Eghansen (Reply 7):
I can never understand how CO/UA/AA/DL can compete on the transatlantic with European carriers when they fly 767s.

I don't understand it either but apparently they do just fine. I think a lot of it just has to do with brand loyalty or just not knowing that they could fly on someone like British Airways. But someone like DL is going to compete nicely with their new suites, it's no EK but it's still extremely nice.


User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8494 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 11080 times:



Quoting Mayor (Reply 5):
ATL-JFK 26 business/158 coach

JFK-BOM 43 business/233 coach

Both legs flown with a 777L.

I've been on that flight ATL-JFK and it's flown by an AVOD-equipped 752. It parks a few gates over at JFK from the 77L.

Quoting Eghansen (Reply 7):
I can never understand how CO/UA/AA/DL can compete on the transatlantic with European carriers when they fly 767s.

CO's 767s are 5-abreast in J.


User currently offlineBaw716 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2026 posts, RR: 27
Reply 11, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 11020 times:



Quoting Eghansen (Reply 7):
I can never understand how CO/UA/AA/DL can compete on the transatlantic with European carriers when they fly 767s.

Maybe because the CO and DL business products are really quite good. I've flown DL a lot over the water with the existing seat and have been always very satisfied with the service..and the seat.

baw716



David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24075 posts, RR: 22
Reply 12, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 10862 times:



Quoting Eghansen (Reply 7):
Quoting IronDuke08 (Reply 3):
The other main complaint is simply that DL's 767 BusinessElite seats are relatively narrow.

I can never understand how CO/UA/AA/DL can compete on the transatlantic with European carriers when they fly 767s.

With 7-across seating in coach, business with 6-across seating means there is only an additional 3 inches of seat width. Very skimpy.

Yes, I've always avoided carriers with 6-abreast business class on 767s. Due ot the relatively narrow 767 fuselage, only 5-abreast is comparable to the space offered on other widebodies. The 5-abreast 767 product like CO, AC (their previous 763 product prior to conversion to flat-bed seats), AZ and several others are much better.


User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9081 posts, RR: 12
Reply 13, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 10847 times:



Quoting Mayor (Reply 5):

Its a 75. If you are on TravelNet and looking put in BOM to ATL (just that don't put Via JFK) and it will say its a 752 on BOM-JFK and a 752 on JFK-ATL



yep.
User currently offlineEghansen From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 10762 times:



Quoting DL767captain (Reply 9):
I don't understand it either but apparently they do just fine. I think a lot of it just has to do with brand loyalty or just not knowing that they could fly on someone like British Airways.

That's just the point. The American carriers flying 767s across the Atlantic are not doing fine at all. Lufthansa made $1.152 billion in profit for the year 2007. Air France-KLM made $987 in profit for the same year.

Remember profit? Its that thing that all companies including airlines are supposed to be making, but the American carriers (except Southwest) don't any more.


User currently offlineEghansen From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 10756 times:



Quoting Eghansen (Reply 14):
That's just the point. The American carriers flying 767s across the Atlantic are not doing fine at all. Lufthansa made $1.152 billion in profit for the year 2007. Air France-KLM made $987 in profit for the same year.

Sorry, I made a mistake in the last post. The profit figures I quoted for Lufthansa and Air France are not in $US, but in Euros. You need to multiply the profit figures for these two airlines by 1.55 to convert them into $US.


User currently onlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 4696 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 10702 times:

ie LH and AF are even more profitable!

Still Eghansen your absolutely right. How is it BA, VS, BD, AF/KL, LH etc. are all making money (in fact most European carriers, except AZ, OA etc.) compared to their US counterparts??? The US market is probabaly larger (?) than the European market, yet more carriers can apparently make money flying fewer passengers. It just doesn't add up...

All airlines pay the same fuel bills. All airlines have very high standards of maintanance. All airlines have labour/union costs (indeed BA and AF have some of the most highly paid crews in the world, if I'm not mistaken).

While someone please explain what's going wrong here!!!



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offline767-332ER From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 2030 posts, RR: 11
Reply 17, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 10526 times:

Quoting Eghansen (Reply 14):
That's just the point. The American carriers flying 767s across the Atlantic are not doing fine at all. Lufthansa made $1.152 billion in profit for the year 2007. Air France-KLM made $987 in profit for the same year.

Remember profit? Its that thing that all companies including airlines are supposed to be making, but the American carriers (except Southwest) don't any more.

What are you talking about here? You are referring to American carriers flying transatlantic routes not being profitable because of one aircraft type being used, yet you post LH/AF-KL yearly (total network profit). Something completely illogical here. American carriers have been suffering due to their domestic networks, however, you should focus on comparing apples-to-apples.

I highly doubt American carriers are losing money because they operate mainly 767's on their intl' routes. In fact, it is because of this aircraft that their international expansions have been launched (and to a lesser degree, the 757), which the large part of this has been successful. They are losing money because on the entire scope, they are far larger carriers than the ones you compare; yes, the US domestic market is far larger; they have relied heavily on the use of RJ's (typically unprofitable a/c) to supplement their networks; they have been deregulated for far longer than in Europe and have engaged in uncompetitive price wars with each other and LCC's for far longer than in Europe, which hasn't helped them. The use of BK or CH.11 has prevented capacity from being removed and in Europe the larger carriers are in position to remove capacity by M&A, although thankfully, the U.S. seems to be waking up to this and is realising that we have too much capacity for the market to be profitable.

[Edited 2008-07-04 06:12:33]


Twinjets...if one fails, work the other one twice as hard!!!
User currently offlineIronDuke08 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 117 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 10508 times:



Quoting 767-332ER (Reply 17):


Exactly. Eghansen, you're comparing apples to oranges. U.S. legacy carriers are not losing money on their TATL and long-haul operations. The domestic route networks are the drain.


User currently offlineMayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 9964 posts, RR: 14
Reply 19, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 10466 times:



Quoting MD-90 (Reply 10):
I've been on that flight ATL-JFK and it's flown by an AVOD-equipped 752. It parks a few gates over at JFK from the 77L.

That explains it.....TravelNet lists the ATL-JFK leg as a 77L, also.

Quoting Eghansen (Reply 7):
With 7-across seating in coach, business with 6-across seating means there is only an additional 3 inches of seat width. Very skimpy.

With an Airbus 330 series, you go from 8-across seating in coach to 6-across seating in business which adds an additional 6 inches in width.

These two statement show that you can make anything look like you want it to, if you just word it correctly and leave out certain things.

Without having the exact figures and going just by the first sentence in each of your statements, the 6 across seating is probably the same width, it's just your comparison with each of the coach classes skews the conclusion you have reached. Also, you forgot to factor in the aisle widths, which are also greater in business than they are in coach.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineDiscoverCSG From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 812 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 10392 times:



Quoting Eghansen (Reply 7):
With 7-across seating in coach, business with 6-across seating means there is only an additional 3 inches of seat width. Very skimpy.



Quoting MD-90 (Reply 10):
CO's 767s are 5-abreast in J.



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 12):
Yes, I've always avoided carriers with 6-abreast business class on 767s. Due ot the relatively narrow 767 fuselage, only 5-abreast is comparable to the space offered on other widebodies. The 5-abreast 767 product like CO, AC (their previous 763 product prior to conversion to flat-bed seats), AZ and several others are much better.



Quoting Mayor (Reply 19):
Without having the exact figures and going just by the first sentence in each of your statements, the 6 across seating is probably the same width, it's just your comparison with each of the coach classes skews the conclusion you have reached. Also, you forgot to factor in the aisle widths, which are also greater in business than they are in coach.

According to seatguru.com, DL's 763 BizElites seats are just half an inch wider than coach seats on the same plane! That's the seat cushion itself ... there is more armrest width, too, which helps.

I recently flew CO IAH-EZE on the 762, and DL EZE-ATL in J on the 763. I found CO's seat more comfortable for sleeping, but DL's wasn't quite the disappointment I thought it might be. For that matter, DL was better than CO in terms of IFE (AVOD, though somewhat limited in choices, worked nicely), food creativity, and food presentation. CO's advantages were its more spacious seat, better cabin colors/lighting/state of repair, and in this instance, FA's - in fact, one of the FA's on DL gave us a condescending lecture on how to read the menu, which is just that guy having a bad day, but CO's service was more quiet, smooth, and efficient all around.

DL BizElite is overall a very good product, and you shouldn't let the relative narrowness of the seat keep you from enjoying the several fine aspects of that cabin.


User currently offlineCokePopper From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1167 posts, RR: 10
Reply 21, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 10364 times:



Quoting DiscoverCSG (Reply 20):
FA's - in fact, one of the FA's on DL gave us a condescending lecture on how to read the menu, which is just that guy having a bad day, but CO's service was more quiet, smooth, and efficient all around

It saddens me to hear this. I am sorry about this. I am offering NO excuses for this and wondering why. The menu/choices/sevice have recently changed for J class. F/A's must remember that it has changed for our customers as well , and patience and understanding is a must.


User currently offlineCubastar From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 397 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 10327 times:



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 12):
Yes, I've always avoided carriers with 6-abreast business class on 767s. Due ot the relatively narrow 767 fuselage, only 5-abreast is comparable to the space offered on other widebodies.



Quoting Eghansen (Reply 7):
I can never understand how CO/UA/AA/DL can compete on the transatlantic with European carriers when they fly 767s.

Go ahead and measure your inches, but I'll take anything over BA's 777 eight abreast, head-to- toe, awkward, youth hostel, uncomfortable and narrow lie flat beds in their Business class.


User currently offlineCubastar From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 397 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 10324 times:



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 12):
Yes, I've always avoided carriers with 6-abreast business class on 767s. Due ot the relatively narrow 767 fuselage, only 5-abreast is comparable to the space offered on other widebodies.



Quoting Eghansen (Reply 7):
I can never understand how CO/UA/AA/DL can compete on the transatlantic with European carriers when they fly 767s.

Go ahead and measure your inches, but I'll take anything over BA's 777 eight abreast, head-to- toe, awkward, youth hostel, uncomfortable and narrow lie flat beds in their Business class.


User currently offlineDiscoverCSG From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 812 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 10265 times:



Quoting CokePopper (Reply 21):
Quoting DiscoverCSG (Reply 20):
FA's - in fact, one of the FA's on DL gave us a condescending lecture on how to read the menu, which is just that guy having a bad day, but CO's service was more quiet, smooth, and efficient all around

It saddens me to hear this. I am sorry about this. I am offering NO excuses for this and wondering why. The menu/choices/sevice have recently changed for J class. F/A's must remember that it has changed for our customers as well , and patience and understanding is a must.

Well, it was a silly thing, really. I asked for the pasta main, which was fourth on the list of choices of main course, as did my sister, traveling with me. He said, "Okay, two for option number three." I said, "Actually, it looks like the pasta is the fourth option, just to make sure." He started going on about choosing two of the three appetizer course options (which we'd already done!) and one main, indicating the pages with his hands. He left, and my sister and I just exchanged looks!

It turned out a different FA did most of the actual serving, and he was polite, attentive, and speedy. So I'm not knocking the overall service just saying CO's was a bit more polished and routine (which is the image CO goes for, especially "routine")

We did end up getting the correct orders on the first try, by the way, and the food was very tasty, as was the wine.  yummy   drunk 


25 IronDuke08 : I have to say, I was on the ATL-EZE DL101 at the beginning of June and my mother and I received the same condescending lecture about the menu. I gues
26 SXDFC : Has anyone had any experience with the new "first class" seats? I can imagine sitting on a 45 degree angle might be a bit weird! Ben88 Have you found
27 Alitalia744 : US carriers are not losing the amounts they are because they fly 767s and 757s over the pond. Either compare apples to apples or don't compare at all
28 MCOAviationFan : DL's inflight procedures call for the lead F/A to take the meal orders for the entire Business Elite cabin. Perhaps both of you had the same lead F/A
29 DiscoverCSG : I wonder if it was the same guy. I mean, does he really think people flying BE have never seen a multi-course, fixed price-type menu before? I don't
30 Post contains links Eghansen : I don't see what is illogical at all about the comparison. Lufthansa has 87 A320 series and 63 B737 classic aircraft. Air France - KLM has 147 A320 s
31 1337Delta764 : This is all fabricated data. Airlines are NOT losing money on transatlantic routes because of flying 767s. This is clear Airbus bias.
32 Dc-9-10 : The thing is that the two markets are not the same. European "domestic" routes are generally much shorter and the composition of customers are not th
33 MrBrightSide : Yes, true. When it comes to LH, bear in mind that airline segment gave 52% of the profits, while 48% came from LH divisions such as Lufthansa Technik
34 DL767captain : Yes but their domestic operations are nothing like US operatiors, along with their international flights. Lufthansa has a relatively small domestic o
35 Super80 : How come there are 767s with 29 seats and some with 35 seats ???
36 LXA340 : I really don't understand the poilicy of US airlines flying planes for 100 years until the fall apart. In this time with very high fuel prices it rea
37 767-332ER : Again, you have named 2 low-cost carriers which in the end do not compete head to head with the "legacy" European carriers as most of these fly into
38 767-332ER : For Delta, the ones with 29 seats are the ex Gulfair -3P6ERs, which have a second set of doors in the forward section of the wing. The 35 seats are f
39 Mayor : You would do well to think before you quote. As an example, DL's 767's were delivered in the 90's, at the earliest. The 767-200's are gone, gone, gon
40 1337Delta764 : Actually, Delta's oldest non-ER domestic 763 (currently in the fleet) was delivered in 1987. None of the 763ERs were built in the 1980s. Delta's olde
41 Rwy04LGA : I came back to JFK from BOM on the June 12th in seat 12D. The flatness of the bed was very nice but there could've been a little more elbow room. AC
42 IronDuke08 : This is just off-hand, but I'd guess that US' 767s are the oldest in the United States. As much as I am a plane freak, honestly, on a long haul fligh
43 1337Delta764 : Actually, US Airways' oldest 762ER was built in 1987, the same year as Delta's oldest domestic 763. However, the average age of the US Airways' entir
44 RobertS975 : I don't know if this has changed with cabin remodeling, but the ex-Gulf Air 767-300s has one other disagreeable feature... no overhead air vents.
45 Alitalia744 : The lack of gaspers on those birds is annoying. There are a few (4) 757s that feature a similar issue if I'm not mistaken. At least they had gaspers
46 Post contains images CokePopper : I believe its the 757 ATA a/c that you are referring to. Annoying for F/A's as well. No air circulation in the galley either.  I hope "our" new 787'
47 N801NW : Yet they'll always be -51's.
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Delta Business Class In Domestic Flights posted Thu Apr 28 2005 16:24:10 by Bongo
Delta M11 Replacement On Transatlantic Flights posted Fri Nov 8 2002 14:23:31 by Panamair
Delta MD-11s On Transatlantic Flights. posted Fri Jan 4 2002 01:08:58 by Airplanetire
Why No Business Class On US Domestic Flights? posted Sat Jan 27 2007 18:22:26 by 8herveg
All-Business Class On London-NY Flights! (W/B763) posted Fri May 11 2001 01:32:23 by Wolfy
Business Class On Short US Flights posted Mon Jul 12 1999 07:27:23 by FLY777UAL
SIA Business Class On 772s posted Fri Jun 6 2008 02:12:33 by Gasman
Business Class On MU posted Thu Dec 20 2007 07:28:51 by BRxxx
How Is The TAP Business Class On The A310? posted Wed Nov 14 2007 19:21:41 by Avianca
New Business Class On AA 763 posted Fri Jul 13 2007 15:23:19 by Uprightnlocked
Why No Business Class On US Domestic Flights? posted Sat Jan 27 2007 18:22:26 by 8herveg
All-Business Class On London-NY Flights! (W/B763) posted Fri May 11 2001 01:32:23 by Wolfy
Business Class On Short US Flights posted Mon Jul 12 1999 07:27:23 by FLY777UAL
SIA Business Class On 772s posted Fri Jun 6 2008 02:12:33 by Gasman
Business Class On MU posted Thu Dec 20 2007 07:28:51 by BRxxx
How Is The TAP Business Class On The A310? posted Wed Nov 14 2007 19:21:41 by Avianca
New Business Class On AA 763 posted Fri Jul 13 2007 15:23:19 by Uprightnlocked