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Travel Company: Frontier Airlines May Be Forced To Close  
User currently offlineCaribbean484 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Jan 2007, 2638 posts, RR: 1
Posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 13983 times:

Well if things will not get better soon, and I do me soon, F9 will liquadate operations, CEO tell customers to avoid advanced bookings.

http://www.krdo.com/Global/story.asp?S=8619506

Quote:

"We have substantial liquidity needs in the operation of our business and face significant liquidity challenges due to historically high aircraft fuel prices, low passenger yields, credit card processor holdbacks and cash reserves and other cost pressures. Accordingly, we believe that our cash and cash equivalents and short-term investments will 12 remain under pressure during 2008 and thereafter. We are uncertain we will be able to obtain debtor in possession financing during our Chapter 11 proceedings. Accordingly, as we continue to seek debtor in possession financing, we will also attempt to address our liquidity concerns through the sale of aircraft and other assets, the sale and leaseback of aircraft and other assets, rejection of Republic Airlines contract, negotiations with our credit card processors and other liquidity enhancement opportunities. We cannot guarantee that these efforts to raise cash and improve our liquidity will be successful, in which case we could be forced to discontinue our operations."

Avoid Advanced Bookings on F9

For everyone here that knows anyone who has tickets on F9 please tell them to be very careful or search elsewhere.

[Edited 2008-07-04 01:21:45]

[Edited 2008-07-04 01:22:39]

[Edited 2008-07-04 01:43:47]


All ah we is one family
53 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMSYtristar From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 6570 posts, RR: 50
Reply 1, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 13931 times:

This is not a good title for the thread by any means.

Statements like this are common when corporations enter bankruptcy protection. They are just stating the risks involved. Nothing out of the ordinary whatsoever.


User currently offlinePlaneHunter From Germany, joined Mar 2006, 6807 posts, RR: 77
Reply 2, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 13928 times:



Quoting Caribbean484 (Thread starter):
For everyone here that knows anyone who has tickets on F9 please tell them to be very careful or search elsewhere.

No need for a mass hysteria. In today's environment numerous carriers could fail, including those who haven't been in the media focus as much as F9.

I'd still book a flight on F9 and wouldn't act as some people try to tell me in the media. There are always risks in life, we have to deal with it.


PH



Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
User currently offlineThe777Man From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 6567 posts, RR: 55
Reply 3, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 13886 times:

I think this is a very valid thread; Chapter 11 is NOT the place to be now with the price of oil going up. Frontier will have a very hard time to find financing to get them thru this.

More carriers would probably like to have filed Chapter 11 (AA) but they know that if they file, they will have a very tough time getting out, much more so now than when UA, DL and NW were in Chapter 11.

I wish Frontier the best of luck though.

The777Man

[Edited 2008-07-04 01:54:20]


Need a Boeing 777 Firing Order....Further to fly....CI, MU, LX and LH 777s
User currently offlineCaribbean484 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Jan 2007, 2638 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 13862 times:



Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 1):
This is not a good title for the thread by any means.

Statements like this are common when corporations enter bankruptcy protection. They are just stating the risks involved. Nothing out of the ordinary whatsoever.

I don't know how to really say it again.

Well like everyone else F9 is in a very troubling position with their monting looses.

All the best to them and to the hard working employees of F9.



All ah we is one family
User currently offlineSldispatcher From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 407 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 13723 times:

Doing my part....booked 4 tickets last month for travel this weekend. I'm not going to let them go down without contributing to their survival first.

Some people on here are the same ones who like to gooseneck at a car wreck scene hoping to see carnage.


User currently offlineAloha717200 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4500 posts, RR: 15
Reply 6, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 13721 times:

I really hope they find help, soon. I don't want to see this great airline gone.  Sad

User currently offlineMSYtristar From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 6570 posts, RR: 50
Reply 7, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 13683 times:

Quoting The777Man (Reply 3):
I think this is a very valid thread

It might be valid but the title might be misleading to some. It indicates F9 going "Tits Up" is an imminent possibility. Clearly it is IF things don't work out as planned, but really, who doesn't know that already? It's not brain surgery to assume that an airline in Ch.11 has a chance of going under...just like it has a chance to successfully reorganize. IMO, the entire article from krdo.com is a pretty poor piece of journalism. Perhaps it was a slow news day.

Quoting Sldispatcher (Reply 5):
Some people on here are the same ones who like to gooseneck at a car wreck scene hoping to see carnage.

  

[Edited 2008-07-04 02:23:09]

User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13593 posts, RR: 61
Reply 8, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 13681 times:
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Quoting The777Man (Reply 3):
I think this is a very valid thread; Chapter 11 is NOT the place to be now with the price of oil going up.

Slight correction - Chapter 11 without DIP financing is not the place to be now.

Ordinarily I'd say F9 has as good a shot as anyone at surviving a trip through the bankruptcy courts, but they're flying headlong into a "Perfect Storm" of a struggling economy, increasing competition in their backyard, negative consumer sentiment and of course - crushing oil prices - that all have the earmarks of disaster for them.

Best of luck to my friends at F9. I hope you guys can pull it out.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineABQ747 From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 850 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 13622 times:

This is awful news. I flew F9 for the first time last month, and I wasn't too impressed. Still, I hope they survive.


The reason New Mexico is so windy is because Texas sucks and Arizona blows.
User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6762 posts, RR: 32
Reply 10, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 13613 times:



Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 7):
the entire article from krdo.com is a pretty poor piece of journalism. Perhaps it was a slow news day.

Well, I cannot say that the actual KRDO news story is inaccurate since it basically quotes the company's 10-K filing, but it does fail to recognize that those sorts of statements are commonplace when any company is in bankruptcy reorganization. Heck, even Southwest (the most financially solid U.S. carrier) will reference "material adverse affects" possible due to certain negative outcomes in the business. In fairness, they do give Frontier's spokesperson a reasonable amount of space to clarify what's being said in the SEC filing.

The point of it all being: the company is obligated to make those kinds of statements in their SEC filings. They do have a responsibility to warn potential investors of the very real risks inherent in the business. But that doesn't mean that the outcomes of which they warn are likely; just that they are possible.

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 1):
This is not a good title for the thread by any means.

I have a beef with the title of this thread in that it's not clear that the warning about Frontier closing is being made by a travel agency CEO, not the company's CEO.


User currently offlineMSYtristar From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 6570 posts, RR: 50
Reply 11, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 13565 times:



Quoting ScottB (Reply 10):
Well, I cannot say that the actual KRDO news story is inaccurate since it basically quotes the company's 10-K filing, but it does fail to recognize that those sorts of statements are commonplace when any company is in bankruptcy reorganization.

Yeah, that's what I was getting at. It makes it seem as if this is something unique to F9's situation.


User currently offlineBooDog From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 257 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 13510 times:



Quoting ScottB (Reply 10):
I have a beef with the title of this thread in that it's not clear that the warning about Frontier closing is being made by a travel agency CEO, not the company's CEO.

 checkmark   checkmark   checkmark 

Carribean 484 appears to be doin' a little pot stirrin'. Who on here hasn't done it?  Smile  stirthepot 



B1B - best looking aircraft ever.
User currently offlineAvek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4381 posts, RR: 19
Reply 13, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 13439 times:



Quoting Sldispatcher (Reply 5):
Some people on here are the same ones who like to gooseneck at a car wreck scene hoping to see carnage.

....and others fail to notice obvious signs that an airline is in severe economic danger, and set themselves up for difficulties in their travel plans by buying tickets on a virtually-defunct airline despite having access to good information via a.net and elsewhere. What's your point?



Live life to the fullest.
User currently offlineAzstar From United States of America, joined May 2005, 620 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 13431 times:

This is NOT the CEO of Frontier saying this. It's the CEO of a travel agency. It's his opinion, and nothing more!!

[Edited 2008-07-04 03:26:48]

User currently offlineJetdeltamsy From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2987 posts, RR: 7
Reply 15, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 13357 times:



Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 1):
Statements like this are common when corporations enter bankruptcy protection

I totally disagree with your comment.

Airlines that enter bankruptcy always paint a rosey picture that things will continue as normal.

I think this is a very ominous sign for Frontier. Most airlines are able to arrange DIP before they file bankruptcy. The fact that Frontier has been unable to attract the financing puts a very dark cloud over the whole operation.



Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
User currently offlineHiflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2172 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 13256 times:



Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 15):
Most airlines are able to arrange DIP before they file bankruptcy

and were not facing fuel cost economics 3x-4x what the aircraft were originally designed for.

Quoting ScottB (Reply 10):
The point of it all being: the company is obligated to make those kinds of statements in their SEC filings.

because companies in the past did not........they did not want to 'scare' investors and then subsequently ceased operations with 'no notice'.


User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13113 posts, RR: 12
Reply 17, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 13227 times:

The problem with such negative statements is that it can ruin customer confidence. That is critical for consumer businesses like airlines. Yes, in recent years US SEC rules require companies to cover all possible risks, but as in this case such statements can bring about failure. I don't want to see any more airline failures including F9, but the circumstances of our time is leading even the biggest of companies to possible failure.

User currently offlinePetteri From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 279 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 13116 times:

This thread should either be re-named or locked. This statement from a travel agent CEO was discussed in the first thread about F9's Chp. 11 filing.

As to DIP financing Frontier is probably waiting for the best deal to present itself. Why take on the restrictions that DIP financing brings with it if you can manage day to day operations without it for the time being?

On a lighter note, Frontier is now serving fresh food on-board. Has anyone tried any yet?  Wink



The above comments are my personal comments and in no way should be viewed as the views,policy or statements of JetBlue
User currently offlineDTWAGENT From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1283 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 12744 times:

I hope they can hang in there. But as a travel agent. I would have a hard time putting my clients on this air carrier becuase of the filing statement. But, like I said I hope they can keep on hanging in their. I have away thought it was not a good idea for them to start up a new airline in a strong UA airport. I would like to know why they chose DIA to begin with to start F9?

chuck


User currently offlineTheGreatChecko From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 1128 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 12624 times:

So they guy quotes the F9 10K's and says that Southwest "will continue" to eat into F9's marketshare and predicts the demise of Frontier....jackass.

Things aren't very rosy at F9 right now and they are definitely on the ropes, but if one would look at the facts, UA is the one in that exact situation and using his faulty reasoning they should be the one people should avoid booking on.

Frontier has maintained their marketshare and seen a modest increase in yield since WN entered the market. UA is the one with the eroding marketshare.

Don't get me wrong, Frontier isn't doing so hot and may not be around this time next year, but that can be said of just about any airline right now, especially with oil continuing its climb.

Checko



"A pilot's plane she is. She will love you if you deserve it, and try to kill you if you don't...She is the Mighty Q400"
User currently offlineTheGreatChecko From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 1128 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 12201 times:



Quoting DTWAGENT (Reply 19):
I would like to know why they chose DIA to begin with to start F9?

The idea was to fill the void left by Continental when they dehubbed Denver. The problem they have run into is that the definitive leadership by Menke came too late and that combined with the rise of oil has left the company where they are today.

Checko



"A pilot's plane she is. She will love you if you deserve it, and try to kill you if you don't...She is the Mighty Q400"
User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5804 posts, RR: 14
Reply 22, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 11800 times:

Did anyone read the original post, not the TV story?
http://www.polkmajestic.com/gui/content.asp?w=pages&r=251&pid=125

The Travel CEO also predicts nearly everyone going into BK.

In previous issues we have discussed the weak state of US Airways. Industry experts think AirTran has a chance to visit the bankruptcy courts as well. American, Delta, Northwest, and United could all be in bankruptcy courts if, as we said above, oil prices stay above $120 per barrel. Continental, Southwest, and Alaska appear to be the healthiest today.

That doesn't seem to have been reported.



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineF9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 5050 posts, RR: 28
Reply 23, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 11622 times:



Quoting Caribbean484 (Thread starter):
Well if things will not get better soon, and I do me soon, F9 will liquadate operations, CEO tell customers to avoid advanced bookings.

It would be nice if you would say that the CEO of the Travel company is what your quoting. I was mislead when reading that, and was beyond shook for a second or two. Stir the pot is a good word for it.

Quoting TheGreatChecko (Reply 20):
So they guy quotes the F9 10K's and says that Southwest "will continue" to eat into F9's marketshare and predicts the demise of Frontier....jackass.

I assume it must have been a very slow news day. Just like when that jackass brought up the Q400 not having oxygen masks. The media in Colorado really has pushed up against F9 through all these years. But, I bet the reporters in Colorado fly F9 more than you would ever know. It is DEN's hometown airline, which makes me think about other hometown airlines. They seem to get the short end of the local press too.



I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlineBrilondon From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 4226 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 11392 times:

I would book with F9 but I would also buy insurance just in case there is a problem and therefor have a back up for my flight.


Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
25 Coa747 : The over-riding problem I see is the tight credit market right now. Yes oil prices are killing everyone but when you file for bankruptcy you need back
26 LAXintl : Indeed. You start loosing the confidence of large travel partners like Amex or Carlson, things can very quickly start to spiral down if they actively
27 PRAirbus : This is perhaps the last nail on the coffin...if the CEO is making those remarks most likely F9 will go out of business soon...what a shame!
28 Bruce : Check out this quote from consultant Mike Boyd: Boyd added, "Any airline today is going to have a problem surviving... Not a single one (airplane) was
29 FATFlyer : It isn't Frontier's CEO, it's the head of a travel agency.
30 Drgmobile : N7371f From United States writes: Clearly this is the first time you have ever read an annual report filed to the SEC. Otherwise you would know by now
31 F9Animal : If it makes anyone feel more comfortable, they said the same thing about UA, DL, NW, and US during its bankruptcy. And who would be comfortable with t
32 FATFlyer : Good ones still do well, its like real estate though you can't just wait for people to walk through the door. I've used my TA for over 20 years, and
33 Type-Rated : Just another embittered travel agent still ticked off that his commissions disappeared. While Frontier may be having problems now, I have confidence
34 Asuflyer05 : They'll be gone come September.
35 Luv2cattlecall : That's what I was mislead into thinking as well...turns out it was the Travel Agency's CEO... Really, Boyd? I find that airplanes burn $140/barrel oi
36 Syncmaster : This is very true, ATA never seemed to be on very good terms with the local IND press either. AA doesn't seem to be with DFW, etc, etc.
37 MSYtristar : I'm glad you have the ability to accurately predict the future. Did you play the psychic in Pee Wee's Big Adventure by any chance? You must also thin
38 DeltaGuy767 : F9 is certainly facing an uphill battle if they haven't reached at least any tentative deals for DIP financing. In today's current marketplace potenti
39 SkyguyB727 : Well, COS didn't work out for Western Pacific. There aren't any other big airports in Colorado that I know of.
40 NZblue : What an absolute, terrible shame and a total slap in the face to passengers and employees to predict the end of Frontier Airlines, the end of thousand
41 Babybus : We've been waiting over 3 years now for BMI to fold and look at that, there it is still flying away against all the odds. I still wouldn't buy a ticke
42 F9Animal : Very well said NZblue! I have to agree with every letter you typed above. Maybe F9 could do the agency a favor, and decrease their commissions. Show
43 Caribbean484 : This is a very well done post nice analysis. While many here will not agree with the guy, he has every right to say what he said, you don't have to r
44 BOStonsox : And they have been bought by LH. Sorry to burst your bubble there. Although LH is a great airline and the culture BD had will still remain. With the
45 FrmrCAPCADET : I would expect a travel agency booking for me, to warn me about any airline they though may not be functioning at the time my flights were scheduled.
46 Eghansen : This is really all about nothing. If you look up the 10-K filings for United, American, Delta and US Air, you will find the same kind of language. Th
47 TheGreatChecko : Don't mean to state the obvious, but F9 is already in Chapter 11 BK protection.
48 AirFRNT : Untrue. Go back and actually read the legal documentation at the time. Given that part of F9's problem is that they have a openly hostile Denver Mayo
49 Drgmobile : Eghansen Although not quite as bleak as Frontier since AMR is not in Chapter 11 yet, it is typical of the inherent gloominess of 10-K filings. In fact
50 Alphascan : Carabe484: As much as I respect your right to post whatever you feel is necessary, this thread is misleading and rather Chicken Little-esque. So much
51 Caribbean484 : How is it misleading? It said travelcompany, I also posted the airline's SEC 10k report from a news source, F9 said it themselves that they face a se
52 Alphascan : How is it misleading? First, you predict liquidation "soon if things don't get better." Neither of the articles back that statement up. - The 10-K pai
53 Caribbean484 : My statement and mines alone, if you have a problem go solve it. It was their quoting alone, deal with it. I was corrected in the earlier post and ma
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