Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Will AA's Int. B767's Get PTV's?  
User currently offline8herveg From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 1171 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 2946 times:

Does anyone know if American Airlines are planning on installing PTVs on their International B767s?

Business Class have portable moniters at the moment don't they?

But what about Economy? It does not seem very consistent of AA to have PTVs on their 777s but not on their 767s.

Any thoughts?

25 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 11
Reply 1, posted (6 years 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 2917 times:

I agree, its very inconsistent. AA flies the 763s on routes that push 10 hours long, as does DL. Both are hesitant on installing PTVs in economy. I believe that AA was planning to install them pre-9/11 but the program never took off.


"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6432 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (6 years 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 2905 times:



Quoting Tommy767 (Reply 1):
I agree, its very inconsistent. AA flies the 763s on routes that push 10 hours long, as does DL. Both are hesitant on installing PTVs in economy. I believe that AA was planning to install them pre-9/11 but the program never took off.

DL and AA are the first and second largest 767 operators, respectively. It will cost them lots of money to refit their entire 767 fleets. At least Delta has refitted their domestic 767-300s with PTVs, and will have all 767-400ERs retrofitted by 2009 as they are shifted to international duties.

Didn't AA also consider retrofitting their MD-80 fleet with overhead video prior to 9/11?



The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offline8herveg From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 1171 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 2872 times:



Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 2):
At least Delta has refitted their domestic 767-300s with PTVs, and will have all 767-400ERs retrofitted by 2009 as they are shifted to international duties.

Thats what I dont understand....surely if Delta were going to install PTV's in any of their aircraft it would be the International ones first...as the chances are, the routes they are flying are going to be slightly longer than the domestic routes?

Both AA and DL should have consistent products throughout.

Now that routes such as BOS-LHR are being downgraded from the 777s which do have PTVs, to 767s, which don't, it seems unfair on the pax who reguarly fly this route who wont be able to experience the same level of service anymore when it comes to entertainment on board.

AA and DL are both major International airlines....with other airlines such as BA, CO, VS, UA etc who fly across the pond, I am suprised AA and DL have not made it a priority to install PTVs on their B767s so that pax dont start flying the other airlines!


User currently offlineElmoTheHobo From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1536 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (6 years 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 2766 times:



Quoting Tommy767 (Reply 1):
I believe that AA was planning to install them pre-9/11 but the program never took off.

They were. The nine newest 767s were delivered with the underseat equipment needed to have PTVs. PTVs, however, are absent from the aircraft.

Quoting 8herveg (Reply 3):
Now that routes such as BOS-LHR are being downgraded from the 777s which do have PTVs, to 767s, which don't, it seems unfair on the pax who reguarly fly this route who wont be able to experience the same level of service anymore when it comes to entertainment on board.

Y class passengers don't care so much about the PTVs. Though you'll find the odd service hungry traveler who will pay extra, most won't base their decision on it. Business class will offer the portable entertainment device with the new J seat.


User currently offlineTonytifao From Brazil, joined Mar 2005, 1014 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (6 years 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2711 times:

They also need to increase the decline on coach. It has one of the worst reclines I have ever seen. So hard to sleep on a AA 763

User currently offlineEMB170 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 646 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2700 times:

Isn't at least DL installing PTVs in Y in the int'l range 763ERs when the new Thompson CozySuites are introduced, say, around 2010 or so?


Can passenger jets fly as fast as my feet do? Let's find out...
User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6432 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (6 years 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2635 times:



Quoting EMB170 (Reply 6):
Isn't at least DL installing PTVs in Y in the int'l range 763ERs when the new Thompson CozySuites are introduced, say, around 2010 or so?

I think I heard something about it, however, I don't think it has been confirmed.

Quoting 8herveg (Reply 3):
Thats what I dont understand....surely if Delta were going to install PTV's in any of their aircraft it would be the International ones first...as the chances are, the routes they are flying are going to be slightly longer than the domestic routes?

Well, if you compare the sizes of Delta's international 763ER fleet vs. Delta's domestic 763 fleet, there are more than twice as many of the international 763ERs, and because of this, it would be much more costly to retrofit them entirely. However, at least Delta has been upgrading the IFE in BusinessElite, and replacing the old clunky CRTs and projectors with new LCD monitors in Economy.

The 763 is Delta's flagship domestic aircraft now with the 764ERs being converted to international duties, and because of this, they warrant Delta's best domestic product with AVOD and satellite television. After DL acquires NW, we can expect that the 753s will be retrofitted as well.

For the NW international fleet, perhaps we might see NW's international 752s and 744s retrofitted. The A330s already have AVOD, so there isn't much to upgrade there.



The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlineA340600 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2003, 4105 posts, RR: 51
Reply 8, posted (6 years 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 2555 times:

Whenever one of them finally decides to install the things it will take about 10 years to complete knowing how long US carriers take to do just about anything, so it'll be a long time yet before there is any form of consistent IFE on AA and DL, the latter of course will be on paintscheme number 29 from the current one by that point.

[Edited 2008-07-07 14:35:22]


Despite the name I am a Boeing man through and through!
User currently offlineBoysteve From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2004, 932 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 2476 times:

As far as UK pax are concerned this is a biggy! Fly from MAN eastward longhaul (Middle East, Asia, Australasia via AUH, DOH, DXB, SIN) and its PTV's throughout. Choose AA to ORD for your next holiday and AA is definitely the poor relation!

User currently offlineDTW757 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1553 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (6 years 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 2431 times:

I'm sure AA (an airline losing 1 million plus dollars a day) isn't too concerned about adding PTV's to any aircraft at the moment. PTV's add weight to the aircraft and therefore burns more fuel. As long as the seats are selling the way they are, why mess with it?


721,2,732,3,4,5,G,8,9,741,2,3,4,752,3,762,3,4,772,3,788,D93,5,M80,D10,M11,L10,100,AB6,319,20,21,332,3,388,146,CR2,7,ERJ,
User currently offlineN62NA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4411 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (6 years 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 2361 times:

That's the only thing that I am disappointed about re: the new AA 763 J class. I hate the fact that on those very long flights, there is no inflight moving map!!!!!

User currently offline1stfl94 From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 1455 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 2345 times:



Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 4):
They were. The nine newest 767s were delivered with the underseat equipment needed to have PTVs. PTVs, however, are absent from the aircraft.

So you lose your legroom for PTV equipment but get no PTV. Unfortunately this lack of investment will bite unless AA wants to become the FR of the transatlantic. And for all those say that Y passengers dont care about PTVs, all I can say from mine and many other's experiences is that once you've had one, you can never go back.


User currently offlineRyanair!!! From Australia, joined Mar 2002, 4742 posts, RR: 26
Reply 13, posted (6 years 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 2318 times:



Quoting DTW757 (Reply 10):
I'm sure AA (an airline losing 1 million plus dollars a day) isn't too concerned about adding PTV's to any aircraft at the moment. PTV's add weight to the aircraft and therefore burns more fuel. As long as the seats are selling the way they are, why mess with it?

It is precisely with these mindsets that the US carriers are constantly lagging behind their peers across both sides of the pond.



Welcome to my starry one world alliance, a team in the sky!
User currently offlineDTW757 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1553 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (6 years 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 2295 times:



Quoting Ryanair!!! (Reply 13):
It is precisely with these mindsets that the US carriers are constantly lagging behind their peers across both sides of the pond.

At a certain point you have to look at the economics of putting that kind of investment into in some cases a 20 year old aircraft. Sure if you're going to order a brand new aircraft, you equip it with PTV's as AA did with the 777. If they are filling the seats and making money on a route without PTV's where is the motivation to go forth with the expense to retrofit the older aircraft?



721,2,732,3,4,5,G,8,9,741,2,3,4,752,3,762,3,4,772,3,788,D93,5,M80,D10,M11,L10,100,AB6,319,20,21,332,3,388,146,CR2,7,ERJ,
User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6432 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (6 years 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2275 times:



Quoting 1stfl94 (Reply 12):
So you lose your legroom for PTV equipment but get no PTV. Unfortunately this lack of investment will bite unless AA wants to become the FR of the transatlantic. And for all those say that Y passengers dont care about PTVs, all I can say from mine and many other's experiences is that once you've had one, you can never go back.

The same is actually true for Delta's domestic 767-400ER fleet. They had underseat boxes for PTVs in economy since they were delivered, however, Delta didn't install PTVs on them until recently when they began to convert them to international duties.



The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9289 posts, RR: 14
Reply 16, posted (6 years 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2262 times:



Quoting 8herveg (Reply 3):
Thats what I dont understand....surely if Delta were going to install PTV's in any of their aircraft it would be the International ones first...as the chances are, the routes they are flying are going to be slightly longer than the domestic routes?

They have to wait for the new seats before they can add PTVs.

Quoting 8herveg (Reply 3):
AA and DL are both major International airlines....with other airlines such as BA, CO, VS, UA etc who fly across the pond, I am suprised AA and DL have not made it a priority to install PTVs on their B767s so that pax dont start flying the other airlines!

Its due to weight. With PTVs routes like ATL-SVO,ATL-ATH would have to stopped or moved to T7s. The routes make money so they wont be stopped and DL doesn't have the T7s to replace the birds on these routes.

Quoting EMB170 (Reply 6):

Isn't at least DL installing PTVs in Y in the int'l range 763ERs when the new Thompson CozySuites are introduced, say, around 2010 or so?

Yes they are.

Quoting DTW757 (Reply 14):
At a certain point you have to look at the economics of putting that kind of investment into in some cases a 20 year old aircraft. Sure if you're going to order a brand new aircraft, you equip it with PTV's as AA did with the 777. If they are filling the seats and making money on a route without PTV's where is the motivation to go forth with the expense to retrofit the older aircraft?

The way things are looking now the Delta 763 fleet will be the next NW DC-9s. Anderson thinks the 787 is overweight and he wants NW to look into Canning the order. (plus its late)
This my friends is yet another reason why I hope the BOD fires him after the merger.



yep.
User currently offlineSsides From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4059 posts, RR: 21
Reply 17, posted (6 years 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2196 times:



Quoting 8herveg (Reply 3):
Now that routes such as BOS-LHR are being downgraded from the 777s which do have PTVs, to 767s, which don't, it seems unfair on the pax who reguarly fly this route who wont be able to experience the same level of service anymore when it comes to entertainment on board.

Most pax that are flying the route could likely care less -- they'll have a book, sleeping pills or an iPod to keep them company if the overhead video isn't enough. Contrary to popular belief, A.netters don't set the market for IFE standards.

Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 4):
Y class passengers don't care so much about the PTVs. Though you'll find the odd service hungry traveler who will pay extra, most won't base their decision on it. Business class will offer the portable entertainment device with the new J seat.

 checkmark 

Quoting Ryanair!!! (Reply 13):
It is precisely with these mindsets that the US carriers are constantly lagging behind their peers across both sides of the pond.

Actually, the transatlantic flights are some of the few routes on which US carriers are making money.



"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4870 posts, RR: 25
Reply 18, posted (6 years 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 2159 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting 1stfl94 (Reply 12):
And for all those say that Y passengers dont care about PTVs, all I can say from mine and many other's experiences is that once you've had one, you can never go back.

But at the end of the day, practically no one flying in Y is willing to pay more for having a PTV across the pond versus not. Otherwise, BA and VS should always be commanding a fare premium over AA or DL in the Y cabin; yet they aren't: BA still routinely kicks off fare sales in its World Traveler cabin despite the notion (at least from what you hear around a.net) that like all international carriers, their Y service is supposed to be so superior to most US-based carriers!

Despite what many here like to think, not having PTVs in Y on their 763ERs, is not causing passengers to defect from AA or DL to BA, VS, AF, etc. LH and KL have survived and thrived for years without any PTVs in Y (KL still doesn't on their 747s) - why should AA or DL be any different?


User currently offlineTUNisia From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1844 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (6 years 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 2153 times:



Quoting 1stfl94 (Reply 12):
So you lose your legroom for PTV equipment but get no PTV. Unfortunately this lack of investment will bite unless AA wants to become the FR of the transatlantic. And for all those say that Y passengers dont care about PTVs, all I can say from mine and many other's experiences is that once you've had one, you can never go back.

I won't book a flight on an INTL carrier if there is no PTV in coach.



Someday the sun will shine down on me in some faraway place - Mahalia Jackson
User currently offlineSsides From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4059 posts, RR: 21
Reply 20, posted (6 years 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 2142 times:



Quoting Panamair (Reply 18):
But at the end of the day, practically no one flying in Y is willing to pay more for having a PTV across the pond versus not. Otherwise, BA and VS should always be commanding a fare premium over AA or DL in the Y cabin; yet they aren't: BA still routinely kicks off fare sales in its World Traveler cabin despite the notion (at least from what you hear around a.net) that like all international carriers, their Y service is supposed to be so superior to most US-based carriers!

Despite what many here like to think, not having PTVs in Y on their 763ERs, is not causing passengers to defect from AA or DL to BA, VS, AF, etc. LH and KL have survived and thrived for years without any PTVs in Y (KL still doesn't on their 747s) - why should AA or DL be any different?

 checkmark 

Quoting TUNisia (Reply 19):
I won't book a flight on an INTL carrier if there is no PTV in coach.

You might not, and the average A.nutter might not, but the overwhelming majority of passengers do not care. They'll go to Expedia or Travelocity or call their travel agent and look for the least expensive fare. That's why, as Panamair has indicated, BA, AF and KL aren't commanding much of a premium, if any at all, on their competing flights with the likes of AA, CO and DL.



"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
User currently offlineQqflyboy From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 2264 posts, RR: 13
Reply 21, posted (6 years 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2042 times:



Quoting DTW757 (Reply 10):
I'm sure AA (an airline losing 1 million plus dollars a day)

Sadly, it's closer to $4 million/day

Quoting DTW757 (Reply 10):
PTV's add weight to the aircraft and therefore burns more fuel.

Absolutely correct. Around a thousand pounds for the entire a/c. Doesn't sound like much, but when you consider AA has removed a single coffee maker from the a/c to save weight, you begin to realize how every pound counts, especially with fuel as high as it is.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 2):
Didn't AA also consider retrofitting their MD-80 fleet with overhead video prior to 9/11?

Yes. When I went through Purser training in 2000 a person from Onboard Products talked to the class about upcoming changes, IFE on the MD-80 being one of their top priorities. They had narrowed down to, at that time, three different systems and were about to make their decision. Because of the large numbers of the MD-80 fleet it was expected to take close to three years to complete.

Quoting N62NA (Reply 11):
I hate the fact that on those very long flights, there is no inflight moving map!!!!!

There is a map called iExplore. Unfortunately, it only plays between videos on the mainscreens, or about once every two hours for several minutes. On top of that, if you're in J-class, the flight attendants usually turn the overhead monitors off in that cabin as pax generally find them distracting, especially on the red-eyes when pax are more likely to sleep.

I, like everyone on this board, wish AA would have installed PTVs on the a/c. While the portable system in J-class is good with loads of content, from a flight attendant perspective they are a pain in the behind -- we install them at the beginning of the flight and retrieve them at the end of the flight... every flight. Big pain. Also, we much rather pax in economy have something to passify them. PTVs are the best way to do that.

With fuel where it is and the emerging airline industry crisis, I think it's safe to say the 763s (or 762s for that matter) will never get PTVs. AA's answer to domestic PTVs is the inflight WIFI system which continues to be tested and should be available on all 762s in the coming weeks. If that system proves reliable and successful, it will likely be rolled out to all 757s and 738s... maybe even MD-80s. That system is really light, weighing about 150 pounds. It is still added weight to the a/c, but a much better tradeoff than PTVs. Plus, the system does not cost AA anything to operate and AA receives a portion of the revenues, so it is a revenue generator for them. PTVs are not.

I imagine if there is a way to make the new WIFI system work over seas, they'll latch on to that as well and add it to the 777 and 763.



The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
User currently offlineAvek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4336 posts, RR: 19
Reply 22, posted (6 years 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2030 times:



Quoting Ryanair!!! (Reply 13):
It is precisely with these mindsets that the US carriers are constantly lagging behind their peers across both sides of the pond.

No PTVs in every Y seat is a mindset shared (at least partially) by KLM, Iberia, Alitalia, Air France, and -- until recently -- Lufthansa. What's your point?



Live life to the fullest.
User currently offlineSsides From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4059 posts, RR: 21
Reply 23, posted (6 years 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 1873 times:



Quoting Avek00 (Reply 22):
No PTVs in every Y seat is a mindset shared (at least partially) by KLM, Iberia, Alitalia, Air France, and -- until recently -- Lufthansa. What's your point?

I agree -- and doesn't BA still have some widebodies without PTVs in every economy seat?



"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 24, posted (6 years 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 1803 times:



Quoting Ssides (Reply 23):
Quoting Avek00 (Reply 22):
No PTVs in every Y seat is a mindset shared (at least partially) by KLM, Iberia, Alitalia, Air France, and -- until recently -- Lufthansa. What's your point?

I agree -- and doesn't BA still have some widebodies without PTVs in every economy seat?

Nope. Not long-haul anyway. The poorest IFE offering on the BA long-haul fleet is the Omnia (IIRC) on the 772. The 763s have AVOD in every seat now I think and the 744s are being rapidly upgraded.

VS has AVOD in Y on everything but some of the LGW based charter 744s and some/all of the few A343s they have left. The vast majority of their fleet is AVOD in Y.

BMI have AVOD in Y on their A332s I think as well.



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlineFlyKev From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2006, 1379 posts, RR: 1
Reply 25, posted (6 years 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 1781 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

If its not cost effective, its not going to happen.
I just flew across the Atlantic to JFK on both a 757, and without PTV's... shock horror, how did I survive those 8 hours????!

As nice as it is to have PTV's, price, schedule will always take priority for most people.


Kev.



The white zone is for immediate loading and unloading of passengers only
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Will AA (former TW) B-757s Get Winglets? posted Mon May 29 2006 18:13:06 by KC135TopBoom
Will Korean Get PTV's In Economy? posted Sun Feb 16 2003 01:09:29 by Flyinghighboy
Will ANZ Get PTV's In Coach? posted Tue Apr 30 2002 01:21:04 by Alitalia777
Which Jets Will AA Get From US? posted Wed Jan 10 2001 13:42:09 by BUFjets
AA - Int'l Check-in Question posted Tue May 6 2008 02:51:27 by BPS3458
Will AA Accelerate MD-80 Retirements? posted Sat Apr 12 2008 08:13:53 by FWAERJ
Will AA+BA Counteroffer For Northwest? posted Thu Feb 21 2008 18:34:26 by MAH4546
Will Gulf Air Ever Install PTV's In The Future? posted Tue Feb 12 2008 09:21:00 by 8herveg
When Will AA Announce Schedule Changes? posted Thu Jan 24 2008 08:20:42 by Aa787
Will This AC 763 Get Repainted? posted Thu Jan 24 2008 05:02:49 by FighterPilot