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Why No Scheduled Flights Between MAN And India?  
User currently offline8herveg From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 1171 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4285 times:

Anyone know why there are no flights between Manchester, UK and India?

Surely there is a market for it? Is the Indian population in and around Manchester as large as the Pakistani population?

I would have thought an airline (perhaps BD if they ordered more A330s?) could operate a 3 x weekly service to Delhi and a 3 x weekly service to Mumbai?

Would Air India consider the operating flights to MAN once they have their B787s delivered?

23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineNimish From India, joined Feb 2005, 3212 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (6 years 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4262 times:

I'm not sure if MAN is close to BHX, but AI does fly to BHX daily. Plus it flies to LHR multiple times a day. So is it possible that MAN-India is effectively divided between LHR/BHX on the one hand and via the Gulf on the other.


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User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12408 posts, RR: 37
Reply 2, posted (6 years 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4245 times:

Doesn't SQ operate its 744 flights via BOM?

Of course, with all the new orders from the likes of IT, 9W and of course AI, this could certainly be rectified by Indian carriers in the future.


User currently offline8herveg From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 1171 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4241 times:



Quoting Kaitak (Reply 2):
Doesn't SQ operate its 744 flights via BOM?

I read somwhere that they used to but stopped some time ago...not sure when exactly but I think sometime in the 90's.


User currently offlineMainMAN From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 2096 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (6 years 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 4217 times:



Quoting 8herveg (Thread starter):
Is the Indian population in and around Manchester as large as the Pakistani population?

No. The UK Indian population is quite heavily concentrated in London/South East and the Midlands.

50% live in London/South East
28% live in the Midlands
12% live in the North West/Yorks

For the Pakistani population, only 26% live in London/South East, 23% in the Midlands and 38% in the North West/Yorks, which explains PIA's heavy presence at MAN and now LBA.

While we're on the subject, 60% of UK Bangladeshis live in London/South East, 13% in the Midlands and 16% in the North West/Yorks.

Quoting Nimish (Reply 1):
possible that MAN-India is effectively divided between LHR/BHX on the one hand and via the Gulf on the other.

LH also carry a lot of connecting passengers from MAN to India. The last time AI operated to MAN (BOM-DEL-FCO-MAN), the service apparently did well and was increased over time to 5 weekly services.


User currently offlineMk777 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 1195 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (6 years 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 4167 times:

I think with AI joining *A DEL/BOM-MAN-IAD would be a good route for them especially since BD withdrew their IAD-MAN service 2 years ago. my  twocents 


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User currently offlineDavid_itl From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 7361 posts, RR: 14
Reply 6, posted (6 years 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 4165 times:
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Quoting Kaitak (Reply 2):
Doesn't SQ operate its 744 flights via BOM?

SQ has been stated by one or two posters in this forum to have found profits on the BOM-MAN sector when it operated.

Quoting MainMAN (Reply 4):
The last time AI operated to MAN (BOM-DEL-FCO-MAN), the service apparently did well and

Aye, was reported in Flight that MAN was one of several "key" destinations to have an increase in frequency, just to have the route pulled within a few weeks.

Quoting Nimish (Reply 1):
I'm not sure if MAN is close to BHX, but AI does fly to BHX daily

It's close but airlines should be able to operate to both MAN and BHX as the catchment areas are quite large, but it is dependent on where routes are going to/from.


User currently offlineMANGuy From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2008, 72 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4127 times:



Quoting David_itl (Reply 6):
Aye, was reported in Flight that MAN was one of several "key" destinations to have an increase in frequency, just to have the route pulled within a few weeks.

Yes I remember the AI A310 service at MAN in the mid-90's well, ramped up to 5x weekly fairly rapidly then they disappeared almost as quickly! I think SQ ran through BOM with 744's 2x per week alongside their ZRH stops they used to do.....BOM seemed to get dropped in the run up to their non-stop 777 ops at MAN.

Hopefully, in time a carrier will manage to carve out a successful operation on direct MAN-India services.


User currently offlineRutankrd From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 2960 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (6 years 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4091 times:
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Manchester can absolutely support profitable direct flights to India and previously has done so.
BA served Bombay (NOT MUMBAI !) and Delhi enroute Hong Kong
- Cancelled when Hong Kong terminated
Singapore dropped Two flights a week into Bombay
Cancelled in favour capacity uplift on direct flights !
Air India have used A310s several times a week.
Cancelled by political intervention in India along with other A310 European services (Before the explosion of local competition - The government wanted the A310 capacity to ply the expat market in the gulf even through yields were actually lower !)
Since then we have to lay the blame squarely at sales team of Manchester Airport PLc .They have seriously dropped the ball where India is concerned over a number of years.
Hey can't even maintain a year round Goa flight now !

Air India lost to Birmingham with shorter runway! (Actually the Birmingham uplift is very different to that out of Manchester with most going to Amritsar (Sikhs going to Golden Temple and the Punjab-You know this is only few hours drive from Lahore in Pakistan !)
I believe they could profitably serve both Manchester and Birmingham without to much traffic cross over.
Manchester and surrounding have great commercial and even media ties. Remember Bolliwood is funded mainly by Bombay Muslims many who proclaim Pakistan as their homeland.
JET Airways chose Brussels of all places and appear rather cozy with a certain London based operator so I don't expect anything from them!

MAPLC need to do all necessary to secure Kingfisher (New Kid on the block) NOW before they start to look elsewhere (Stansted ?)


User currently offlineMisbeehavin From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 914 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (6 years 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3970 times:



Quoting 8herveg (Thread starter):
Anyone know why there are no flights between Manchester, UK and India?

For the same reason there aren't any flights between [insert random city here] and [insert another city here] even though there is a massive [insert appropriate nationality here] population.

Mom and Dad and their 2.4 children making an annual trip to the motherland isn't going to fill the front of the bus on a daily basis - which is what's needed to turn an actual profit. Most airlines worth their name use that as a determining factor - at least for the long-haul flights.


User currently offlineBOStonsox From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 1988 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (6 years 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3939 times:



Quoting Misbeehavin (Reply 9):
For the same reason there aren't any flights between [insert random city here] and [insert another city here] even though there is a massive [insert appropriate nationality here] population.

Mom and Dad and their 2.4 children making an annual trip to the motherland isn't going to fill the front of the bus on a daily basis - which is what's needed to turn an actual profit. Most airlines worth their name use that as a determining factor - at least for the long-haul flights.

 checkmark  Boston has a huge Brazilian population but no flights to Brazil. I'd be very surprised if MAN had enough business or tourism or anything else that makes up O&D to India. It is only three and a half hours from LHR, so I doubt there is enough O&D to warrant such a flight. I'm surpised BHX has a flight, and the fact that is only 75 miles away is your answer to why MAN doesn't have a flight to India.



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User currently offlineEx_SQer From United States of America, joined Apr 2002, 1435 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (6 years 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3908 times:



Quoting David_itl (Reply 6):
SQ has been stated by one or two posters in this forum to have found profits on the BOM-MAN sector when it operated.

It was marginally profitable. The India-Singapore bilateral at the time used a complicated formula to calculate allowed uplift ex-BOM, and paxs traveling MAN-SINvv were counted towards that quota. As BOM-SINvv traffic was higher yielding than BOM-MANvv, the route was dropped in order to allow SQ to optimize its benefit from that quota.


User currently offlineHUYfan From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 1405 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (6 years 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3875 times:

BOStonsox

I think that is a bit off the mark. Manchester and Birmingham both have sizeable Indian and Pakistani communites, as do many cities within their catchment area. There is absolutely a market for MAN-DEL/BOM, just as there is a market for Pakistan from both airports.

Regards

Mike


User currently offlineMAN23R From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 256 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3852 times:

it is mind boggling, MAN-india would be very profitable indeed, i do think AI are focused on birmingham at the moment. hopefully MAN managament will approach then again....

User currently offlineGr8Circle From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 3092 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (6 years 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3835 times:



Quoting Rutankrd (Reply 8):
BA served Bombay (NOT MUMBAI !)

What's that supposed to mean  Confused

The city was officially renamed as Mumbai almost 12 years ago....


User currently offlineN867DA From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1001 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 years 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3826 times:



Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 14):
What's that supposed to mean Confused

I wondered the same thing. I think it means BA operated the route before the name was changed.



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User currently offlineMainMAN From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 2096 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (6 years 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3826 times:



Quoting HUYfan (Reply 12):
I think that is a bit off the mark

There are no rules, and there's never any guarantee that people [insert random person here] contributing to a.net will either:

a) read through the thread before they deign to offer an opinion.
b) know what they're talking about.


User currently offlineBOStonsox From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 1988 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3825 times:



Quoting HUYfan (Reply 12):
BOStonsox

I think that is a bit off the mark. Manchester and Birmingham both have sizeable Indian and Pakistani communites, as do many cities within their catchment area. There is absolutely a market for MAN-DEL/BOM, just as there is a market for Pakistan from both airports.

And as I had said, that doesn't mean anything. Sure, a lot of people fly to their country of origin but that is only going to fill up a few seats on a flight. I gave the fact that Boston has a large Brazilian population but no flights to Brazil as an example. Even though the Brazilian connection is here, there isn't the tourist or business demand to warrant it. Now, maybe there is enough in the area, but seeing as BHX already has a nonstop flight and that airport is only 75 miles from downtown Manchester and well connected by both road and rail, there won't be enough O&D for them to serve both. I guess that the best conclusion is that Manchester DOES have a nonstop flight to India, it's just out of BHX airport nearby.



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User currently offlineGr8Circle From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 3092 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (6 years 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3822 times:



Quoting HUYfan (Reply 12):
I think that is a bit off the mark. Manchester and Birmingham both have sizeable Indian and Pakistani communites, as do many cities within their catchment area. There is absolutely a market for MAN-DEL/BOM, just as there is a market for Pakistan from both airports.

The Indian population in MAN, as rightly pointed out, is not the type that would fill the premium seats....moreover, the sheer size of the population there does not necessarily mean there will be a LOT of traffic between MAN and India.....it is fairly fragmented between Punjab, Delhi as well as the western Indian cities like AMD....

Quoting MAN23R (Reply 13):
it is mind boggling, MAN-india would be very profitable indeed, i do think AI are focused on birmingham at the moment. hopefully MAN managament will approach then again....

I think AI hit the right spot there....I believe they get pretty good loads on the BHX flights...

Quoting Misbeehavin (Reply 9):
For the same reason there aren't any flights between [insert random city here] and [insert another city here] even though there is a massive [insert appropriate nationality here] population.

Mom and Dad and their 2.4 children making an annual trip to the motherland isn't going to fill the front of the bus on a daily basis - which is what's needed to turn an actual profit. Most airlines worth their name use that as a determining factor - at least for the long-haul flights.

 checkmark 


User currently offlineGFFgold From Indonesia, joined Feb 2007, 443 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (6 years 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3770 times:

The Indian market from MAN is probably better served by the Gulf carriers who can offer a number of Indian destinations from their hubs. Take any EK or EY flight from MAN and you'll find lots of Indians travelling back for family visits.

User currently offlineAndaman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (6 years 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3737 times:

It seems also AY have found the Indian market from MAN, earlier this year they offered really low prices from MAN to BOM/DEL.

User currently offlineBOStonsox From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 1988 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (6 years 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3703 times:

I'm surprised that MAN and BHX have the O&D for long haul flights like India and the US that wouldn't otherwise be served by LHR. Being American the UK looks so small, and while GLA and EDI would make sense to me for long-haul flights since they look so far from LHR, and while MAN and BHX are so close they are about as far away from LHR as BOS is from JFK.


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User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4917 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (6 years 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3590 times:



Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 21):
I'm surprised that MAN and BHX have the O&D for long haul flights like India and the US that wouldn't otherwise be served by LHR. Being American the UK looks so small, and while GLA and EDI would make sense to me for long-haul flights since they look so far from LHR, and while MAN and BHX are so close they are about as far away from LHR as BOS is from JFK.

The North of England and the Midlans have large ethnic populations to sustain flights - I expect this is at least part for historical reasons with Britain being the former colonial power. Scotland has far less ethnic traffic. There is PIA at GLA twice a week but that's it. So as far as Pakistani, and to a lesser extent India flights go, thats why things are the way they are

Also with AI at BHX, remember the flights extend to YYZ so BHX alone isn't filing daily flights to Amritsar and Delhi. As a terminator flight, BHX would struggle to have more than 2 or 3 flights a week I would think

When it comes to US traffic demand is high enough to sustain this traffic. Like BOS can sustain European service despite JFK (and EWR), MAN and BHX can sustain US service despite LHR (and LGW)



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User currently offlineMisbeehavin From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 914 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (6 years 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 3433 times:



Quoting HUYfan (Reply 12):
BOStonsox

I think that is a bit off the mark. Manchester and Birmingham both have sizeable Indian and Pakistani communites, as do many cities within their catchment area. There is absolutely a market for MAN-DEL/BOM, just as there is a market for Pakistan from both airports.

Regards

Mike

A market? Sure. But one that would fill the front of the plane, every day, consistently through the year? No chance. Not unless the airline flying the route had a decent sized and functional hub at either end. Without any connecting traffic, I would think the only European city that could support daily non-stop flights to India at a profit is London.

AI could make a go of it if they wanted though - because that seems to be the type of airline that doesn't necessarily go after the premium traffic first. And of course ecomomics and profitability seem to be an alien concept.


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