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AA1901 Conflict Between Pax And Crew  
User currently offlineBOACVC10 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 609 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 19565 times:

I was surprised to read about AA1901, and would like to know what actually happened. The story is published here, on the CBS website

I quote:

Quote:
Angry Passengers, Agitated Crew Face Off
Fight Over A Late Flight Ends In A 24-Hour Delay For New York-Bound Passengers

(CBS) A plane-load of passengers was delayed 24 hours when the crew for a flight from Miami to New York arrived late. The crew balked at flying after passengers became angry and belligerent. Passengers say the pilot and crew over-reacted.

It all started Sunday night when passengers say the flight crew showed up over an hour late for American Airlines flight 1901, reports CBS News correspondent Joel Brown on The Early Show. The passengers were upset and they let the crew know it.

BOACVC10


Up, up and Away!
184 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAAH732UAL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (6 years 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 19482 times:

So what.... once a year fliers need to learn that NO CREW = NO FIGHT. Being that the crew was already upset that they were also late, they did not need the booing!

Good for the crew  Smile They don't deserve crap like that.


User currently offlineBoston92 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 3390 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (6 years 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 19466 times:

I was a bit late with my post...here is a video:

http://www.myfoxny.com/myfox/pages/N...EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=3.2.1



"Why does a slight tax increase cost you $200 and a substantial tax cut save you 30 cents?"
User currently offlineEWRCabincrew From United States of America, joined May 2006, 5523 posts, RR: 56
Reply 3, posted (6 years 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 19355 times:



Quoting AAH732UAL (Reply 1):
Being that the crew was already upset that they were also late, they did not need the booing!

They were upset? I didn't get that from the article. Was it crew legalities that the crew was late, that happens a lot?

As for the booing, it was, afterall, a MIA-JFK flight. Not that that should be an excuse, but still. You wouldn't get this reaction on, say, a MCI-DEN flight.

I've been booed before for being late, as well as the calls and snide comments. Sh** happens. It doesn't make it right, but it is part of the job (at least it is now - as sad at that is). The good, the bad and (definitely) the ugly.



You can't cure stupid
User currently offlineSpacecadet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3610 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (6 years 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 19305 times:



Quoting AAH732UAL (Reply 1):
Good for the crew Smile They don't deserve crap like that.

Neither do the passengers, most of whom simply sat there and waited for an hour and fifteen minutes for a late flight crew, then were just trying to board the plane when the flight was canceled. My understanding is it was just a few passengers who confronted the flight crew. And those passengers should have simply been kicked off the flight if they were "hostile".

And how do you know the crew were "upset" that they were late? And why is that an excuse for being late?

Sure, there's two sides to everything, and it's possible they collectively had a good reason for being late... or it's possible that they were just late. Either way, it's not the passengers' fault, especially not those who were just patiently waiting.



I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
User currently offlineTylerDurden From United States of America, joined May 2008, 852 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (6 years 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 19290 times:



Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 3):
As for the booing, it was, afterall, a MIA-JFK flight. Not that that should be an excuse, but still

They didn't have any horns to blow. I'm surprised they didn't throw garbage.


User currently offlineAA767400 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 2333 posts, RR: 26
Reply 6, posted (6 years 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 19230 times:

What most passengers don't know is that the Crew was late because of an inbound flight that they worked before this one. So, of course the people think that the Crew woke up late to get to work and started booing because in the passengers eyes the Crew was at fault.

They just finished working two legs that were also late, and then run to the other gate to be welcomed by hostile, agitated passengers. The Agents sometimes also don't play their part. They just tell the crowd that the flight is delayed due to the Crew being late. But neglect to state that they are late due to the flight that they are WORKING being late, which is not their fault.

Also, MIA-NYC is one of the hardest flights to work because of the clientele. This is why most NYC-Florida flights are VERY junior.



"The low fares airline."
User currently offlineDispatchguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1249 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (6 years 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 19146 times:

Sounds like a crew misconnect, or some other type of legality, which does happen on a regular basis.

I completely support the crew's refusal to go.

If the passengers dont like it, refund their tickets, and they can walk to New York.



Nobody screws you better than an airline job!
User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5232 posts, RR: 25
Reply 8, posted (6 years 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 19145 times:

Quoting Boston92 (Reply 2):

Gotta love how he keeps talking about it being a Florida to LGA flight then says "flight 1908 from MIA to JFK.

Also love how one of the guys they interviewed says it was perfectly understandable to start booing because the flight had been delayed by 1 hour 15 mins. Are you kidding? No one likes to be delayed but in the grand scheme of things 75 mins isn't really all that long especially considering that the majority of passengers were probably terminating at JFK.

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 3):
As for the booing, it was, afterall, a MIA-JFK flight.



Quoting AA767400 (Reply 6):
Also, MIA-NYC is one of the hardest flights to work because of the clientele. This is why most NYC-Florida flights are VERY junior.

I hear this a lot. What exactly is it about NYC-Florida flights that makes them so difficult/unpopular for crews to work?

[Edited 2008-07-08 13:26:32]


Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlineEASTERN747 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 515 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 19096 times:

I don't believe it...a one hour delay and the passengers(some) were irate. Were do they think the crew was coming from ...dinner? When I worked in Washington and Fort Lauderdale we were on first name basis with the police, because we had to call them so many times for the New York flights.....good for the crew and the fact the front crew stood up for the f/a's.....cancel the flight and give them bus tickets.

User currently offlineDispatchguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1249 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (6 years 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 19090 times:



Quoting OA412 (Reply 8):
NYC-Florida flights that makes them so difficult/unpopular for crews to work?

The NYC-based passengers.

When I was a gate agent at UAX many many years ago, the biggest pain in the arse when it came to delays going into ORD were passengers destined for LGA and EWR; 7 times out of 10. If I saw those on the outbound connections list, passengers for those cities were usually the worst to work with, were the most condescending, and were the biggest PITA.

The one that said he would strangle me because of a delayed flight (level 6 thunderstorms on top of ORD) was bound for EWR. He also promised that he would never fly us (UAX) again.

I saw him the next week for another Notre Dame home game; they lost, and his flight was again a misconnect for him to get to EWR.



Nobody screws you better than an airline job!
User currently offlineMalaysia From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 3332 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 18800 times:

TWA would never do this and have better connecting via STL Big grin


There Are Those Who Believe That There May Yet Be Other Airlines Who Even Now Fight To Survive Beyond The Heavens
User currently offlineDispatchguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1249 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (6 years 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 18730 times:

When it comes to safety, AA management will always fall on the side of the crew.

Crew did what they had to do for safety. Like I said, just because you have a ticket, doesnt give you the right to be belligerent to a working crew. It is a felony to ignore directions given by a working flight crewmember, and that will cause an inflight diversion, and someone to become a guest of the federal government for a while.

It has nothing about being a "prima dona" (sic) crew. It probably has nothing to do with frustrations about having a s**t job (but without reading their trip report, I cant say for sure). Without a Federal Air Marshal on board, or a federal flight deck officer (FFDO) on board, I sure as hell wont operate the flight. Who knows if the gate area issues will lead to bigger issues on board; who can say that someone wont just let their attitude fester and once airborne, to be a bigger pain in the ass once airborne.

You think that AA sucks, your opinion, your decision. I agree with the crew, and as a certificated airman that shares operational control responsibility, if I had this same issue arise on a flight I was responsible for, I would back the crew's refusal.



Nobody screws you better than an airline job!
User currently offlineMikefad From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 120 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 18703 times:

Only a few passengers were idiots.

User currently offlineAAH732UAL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (6 years 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 18632 times:

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 3):
They were upset? I didn't get that from the article

Well I think anytime your late not matter WHO you are, you get upset. No one is ever happy being late.

[Edited 2008-07-08 14:19:33]

User currently offlineLijnden From Netherlands, joined Apr 2003, 562 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (6 years 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 18618 times:
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Shows again how screwed up the airline industry in the US is. I once missed my connection ORD > SEA and SEA > Kelowna, BC because the crew of the leg ORF > ORD (United) were about 2 hours late for the 6:45 am flight. No reason was given. I am not paying for these mis-arranged crew schedules that are giving me unwanted delays at busy airports, changing tickets around and have me at my destination 5 hours later than I planned. I am also never paying the famous $ 99,00 round trip fares but around $ 1600,00 only for the flights between ORF > Kelowna, BC > ORF in economy without any form of service. So yes, I expect any flight crew to be on time for a flight, else they should maybe consider flying cargo instead.


As mentioned before
NO CREW = NO FLIGHT (true)
I want to add
NO PASSENGERS = NO FLIGHT (or JOB)



Be kind to animals!
User currently offlineHeavierthanair From Switzerland, joined Oct 2000, 789 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 18585 times:

G´day

I get the impression AA does not longer like where their $$$$ come from and who finances their very existence. I remember they used to announce "we know you have a choice", that seems to be history though. How about giving up that self loading cargo business and go for a cargo only operation. Flowers, fruit, vegetable and the like do not usually complain, and no Hotel accommodation is required if the crew shows up late, the plane breaks down or both. No worries about checked baggage going to another airport either.

Just a thought that likely applies to quite a number of other airlines! Not only US airlines for that matter.

Cheers

Peter



"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." (Albert Einstein, 1879
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21474 posts, RR: 60
Reply 17, posted (6 years 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 18571 times:



Quoting Spacecadet (Reply 4):
And those passengers should have simply been kicked off the flight if they were "hostile".

If it was just a few, the flight crew over-reacted. They should have called for security, let security pull them aside and talk to them, boarded the rest of the flight, and then if security was able to calm them down and the flight crew felt they were fit to board, board the angry few last. Otherwise, leave them behind.

My guess though is that AA did not tell the people waiting WHY the crew was late. My experience with AA is they do not properly communicate with passengers. Not as bad as DL is sometimes on that front, but still, to me it seems at AA that the ground staff doesn't think the passengers need to know the why of the situation. This is the end result of that approach...



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineAA767400 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 2333 posts, RR: 26
Reply 18, posted (6 years 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 18575 times:



Quoting Lijnden (Reply 20):
So yes, I expect any flight crew to be on time for a flight, else they should maybe consider flying cargo instead.

Again, the Crew did not show up late because they rolled out of bed late. They were late because the AIRLINE schedules Crews on tight connections with multiple legs in one day. Is it your fault? Of course not. But it is not the Crew's either. So direct your frustrations at the airline, not the underpaid front line employees.



"The low fares airline."
User currently offlineDispatchguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1249 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (6 years 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 18556 times:

Well, if a crew was going to be late for an originating morning flight, it sounds like they were REQUIRED BY LAW to be late, its called Federal Aviation Regulation 121.471; sounds like they were late for crew rest issues. Norfolk isnt a regular crew domicile for any UAX carrier, so recrewing the flight might not have been possible.

Do you want a crew to fly illegally? Yes, you were inconvenienced, however, would you rather become a charcoal briquet on the ground for the crew flying illegally, and by mistake fly your
plane into the dirt due to gross fatigue?

Charcoal briquet or alive, albeit a little late; your decision.

Hey, as an ops controller, I would love for all of my flights to operate 100% on time, all the time. However, sometimes that isnt possible.

An Airline ticket is a contract. In the fine print, it says "Airline Schedules are NOT guaranteed and form no part of this contract."

[Edited 2008-07-08 14:35:28]


Nobody screws you better than an airline job!
User currently offlineNkops From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2660 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (6 years 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 18508 times:



Quoting Lijnden (Reply 20):
So yes, I expect any flight crew to be on time for a flight, else they should maybe consider flying cargo instead.

I agree with you, as long as it is in the flight crews control... however, if the crew is late because they had a 2-hour groundstop flying inbound or something out of their control that put them behind sked, it is either crew schedulings responsibility to hunt down another crew, or the flight goes late.... if it's not the crews fault, don't take it out on them, they are just following their schedule



I have no association with Spirit Airlines
User currently offline44k From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 310 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (6 years 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 18421 times:

On one hand I feel it was a good call for them to cancel the flight. On the other, I feel really bad for the gate agents who look like took the brunt of the abuse over something completely out of their control... It's a shame people are so uncivilized...  

EDIT: It was AA1908 not 1901

[Edited 2008-07-08 14:54:57]

[Edited 2008-07-08 14:55:26]

User currently offlineDispatchguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1249 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (6 years 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 18370 times:



Quoting 44k (Reply 21):
On the other, I feel really bad for the gate agents who look like took the burnt of the abuse over something completely out of their control... It's a shame people are so uncivilized... Sad

I agree - remember after 9/11 and that the agents and aircrew were treated very well by the passengers.

Oh how they have forgotten. They probably didnt originally have the delay coded as a misconnecting flight crew (if they were misconnecting). If they pulled someone from reserve, well, he has a contractual right to be able to get to work without breaking every speed law in the book just to get there.



Nobody screws you better than an airline job!
User currently offlineEMB170 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 646 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (6 years 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 18345 times:

Without having been present, it sounds as though everyone has some sort of blame here.

The crew got scared and defensive when the passengers heckled them at the gate.

The passengers became irate when the gate agents told them the crews were late.

If the buck stops anywhere, it should be either with AA's scheduling (probably overscheduled the crew, and should have had a reserve crew ready), or AA's gate agents who may have led the passengers to believe that the flight crew was late just because the crew overslept/was out having fun/was having sex in the bushes behind the hotel (sorry, couldn't resist).



Can passenger jets fly as fast as my feet do? Let's find out...
User currently offlineAY104 From Canada, joined Nov 2005, 505 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (6 years 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 18333 times:

Just another example of how ridiculous our society has become. I am not sure why the crew was late, but obviously it was something beyond their control. A 75 min. delay is nothing...if I was a passenger on that flight, I would be glad to see the crew and happier still because they had work time left that day to operate the flight. They obviously felt threatened and intimidated by the behaviour of the passengers, so they were well within their rights to refuse to fly. It would be one thing to be booed at the end of a flight, when everyone was deplaning, but to be subject to that kind of behaviour even before boarding is downright rude. They definitely don't get paid enough to be cooped up for hours with a group like that.
What is society coming to? People are that upset because of a one hour and fifteen minute delay?! Just the fact that they would be upset at all, let alone exhibit that type of behaviour, is totally beyond my comprehension.
Unfortunately, I don't think that most people will take this as a positive lesson to be learned, with the way society is today I feel that things are only going to get worse. The sad part is, that each and every person who participated in that ugly scene, is responsible for the 24 hour delay, and yet none will every admit it.
Cheers,
AY104



The only thing a customer should expect for his/her loyalty is good service
25 KAUSpilot : I wasn't there but I have a hunch at who is at fault here: GATE AGENTS. I suspect they did not adequately explain the crew's reason for being delayed,
26 Crewchief : Although the gate agents may have handled the situation better (or not, I don't know the details), the responsibility for the passenger's boorish beh
27 IAirAllie : hmmmm... "Gimme a coffee regular, an orange juice and a coke the whole can" with no thank you or eye contact in a belligerent tone. repeat 200 times.
28 AirNZ : Yep, real mature comment there......and even more so considering you know absolutely nothing about the incident. Mind you, at 16-20 I'd be curious to
29 AAH732UAL : You wanna play that game? Fine...... No I don't know about the accident but know that flights crews also hate to be late just as much as passengers.
30 AAH732UAL : Sometimes as much as twice a month since she has been in DCA.
31 EWRCabincrew : As crew, not so much, as it was not our doing to be late. As crew you roll with it. It is an inherent part of the job. You can't get worked up over s
32 IAirAllie : Meh, No point in getting upset over a delay. Yeah, some delays cut your layovers short but it's nothing worth fretting over.
33 44k : I take great offense to your posting for several reasons. Firstly, you were not there, how can you blame the gate agents there?! Did you watch the vi
34 FLFlyGuy : The crew in question was late inbound on a Port au Prince, Haiti turn (where, I am sure, they dealt with plenty of angry people regarding misconnects,
35 Brilondon : The flight crew was probably coming from another flight and it was more then likely late. Passengers seem to think that they entitled to let people h
36 44k : Yep, and the flight crew are very trigger happy for booting pax off the plane too. See, the main difference is, if a pax is baligerant to the Agents,
37 Jumbojet : that this was AA doesnt surprise me at all. AA seems to continually treat there customers like crap. A family member recently TRIED to take an AA fli
38 Fsnuffer : It is all in the attitude. The gate agents are just the customer facing portion and have almost no control over flights being late or delayed. I was o
39 OA412 : Oh I see! What fun that must be.
40 WESTERN737800 : Agreed I think everyone could have done things a little different. Also I would guess chances are good that every one of the adult passengers have be
41 ADXMatt : It was already mentioned that the crew was late due to a late inbound flight. you will also notice that the flight number from PAP-MIA-JFK is the same
42 ZKEOJ : Except if you are a plane spotter and have a bit more time at the window of your departure lounge...
43 SPREE34 : They are a superior part of the population. Just ask them. Same as above. Same as above again. As is usually the case in life, a few buttheads screw
44 Csavel : Oh please, I am from new York and you know, I've flown out of New York my entire life and rarely have I seen the "attitude" that people here constant
45 Ozark1 : This site amuses me so much since everyone gets so worked up about things! You say it was the agents not telling the passengers what was going on. Wel
46 ADXMatt : That is true; however the gate agent can call the operations coordinator or supervisor for that zone and ask the question. Where is the crew comming
47 LTBEWR : Too many pax are just too stressed out about flying. From the higher prices for tickets, traffic to the airport, paying fees that they never paid befo
48 ItalianFlyer : I have had gate agents imply that we were "sleeping in" when IROPS caused us to get in the night before very late and push the a.m. departure back for
49 Jumbojet : your taking sides without even knowing half the facts? truly incredible and biased.
50 Post contains links and images CokePopper : Quoting Csavel (Reply 44): So I am a proud New Yorker, and frankly, if you are in the industry you will never notice me. I am the guy who wants to rea
51 KAUSpilot : +1 People don't boo the flight crew for a 1 hour delay without instigation. Let's see...I wonder who could provide such instigation.....someone who n
52 Brilondon : I rather fly AA than NW, AC, or US any day of the week.
53 Jumbojet : I've flown AA enough times to realize that AA seems to think that there such a big enough airline that they could care less about how poorly they tre
54 Iaddca : just hope we don't have to give anymore of our tax dollars to this sad airline, its socialist pilots, inept management, and ancient aircraft need to b
55 44k : What is your problem? This the second uncalled for attack on AAgents. How do you know it was them?! And where do you get "someone who normally displa
56 Iaddca : It was certainly classless behavior though by the pax, who would have been in NY if they kept their mouths shut. Still, the crew also acted inappropr
57 Skygypsy : Kudos to the crew for standing up to ill behaved passengers. And shame on the press for not educating people--they just antagonize them to think that
58 707lvr : The original slip had it right in the first place. Sounds like the New York-Miami passenger "type" wink-wink and the crews who love serving them dese
59 TUNisia : What is wrong with humans when they behave like this? I guess it's typical of the new American chauvinistic way of doing things.
60 Flybyguy : You people are incredible! The only service in the world where you pay hundreds of dollars to be treated like cattle. I think that's why people are u
61 IAirAllie : Sometimes small arguments escalate to big ones. 35,000 ft. is no place for a big argument. I've never known a FA or Pilot to take the removal of a pa
62 Propjett : The solution is to get rid of the Pilots Union. No union to back your decision to park the plane and thumb your nose at the passengers and say "nanny
63 Propjett : Sounds like the gate agents might just be responsible for the irate passengers, if it was in fact due to the crew's previous flight being late inboun
64 Babybus : This shouldn't be a shield for airlines to hide behind. If I buy a ticket to travel between two places, I should have that service provided because I
65 NorthstarBoy : I've noticed this on just about all the airlines i've flown since 9/11, there seems to have developed this mentality that telling the pax nothing is
66 Propjett : Why? so if you don't enjoy your flight, or if you think maybe your service suffered you can call and complain? I think it's a UNION thing.....I agree
67 B707forever : Once again NY'ers get a bad name. I'll ignore the potential anti-religious message that comes with the hostility NY'ers receive for being tough. GIVE
68 ChrisNH : Kind of in keeping with the passengers aboard them.
69 Par13del : As an ex airline employee let me add a couple points. Today we tend to live in a world where we believe that more information is required to customers
70 PeterPuck : Unions are not needed in this case, the crew is backed by the regulations. You can't get fired for refusing an unsafe flight. It's that simple.
71 Max777geek : Of course, who do you want to fight with, if the crew don't show up ?
72 Post contains images Carls : AA Always late, the worst service, airplanes that looks like crap inside, unfriendly FA, what else can we say. Would be good if the Government fine A
73 B767300ER : It is amazing to me that no matter where the passengers are flying to, be it JFK or DXB, simply keep the passengers informed as to why a flight is del
74 Propjett : This is most certainly an APA union tactic....google them, read the articles in the Ft. Worth Star Telegram, and Dallas Morning news, they (AA pilots
75 Ripcordd : All of you people who think the gate should have done this or that where you there no so shut the f---k up all you heard on the tape was from passenge
76 Jumbojet : Have any of you considered that maybe, just maybe the few rude and irate passengers inquired at the gate as to the reason why the flight was being del
77 N202PA : I call BS on that. A smile, courtesy and providing customers with information (particularly WHY the airline is not living up to their side of the bar
78 PeterPuck : How do YOU know that the pilots made this decision. The flight attendants had every right to refuse to go too. I wouldn't have gone if I was a fa and
79 AAH732UAL : Yes BUT the crew is in the same boat as the pax's and don't want Wow what a comment, I think someone needs to re-think that mind. Unless you want a T
80 AAH732UAL : Disregard that. If was left from another time and I can't seem to edit it out.
81 Olli : (Quoting 44k (Reply 33): I think we have some of THE BEST agents in the industry overall. Comparison are very unfriendly, but you MUST see how Gate Ag
82 Goomba : AA stinks...I've said it in many other posts and much to the chagrin of many of you. What was once the best airline in our country, has gone down the
83 PyroGX41487 : I'm 21, and was raised in NYC, and whereas I wasn't there for the events, I can believe New Yorkers acting like that. I've been a lot of similar situa
84 EWRCabincrew : Never said there was an "attitude". What I said was this: New Yorkers are known for speaking their mind. So? But you bash here as well: And then the
85 Ikramerica : We can't know what happened, but with my past AA experiences with delays, especially at MIA, I can agree that it is very likely the ground staff did
86 PGNCS : Most passengers think that crews are plentifully available and are scheduled such that they show up at their airport well ahead of departure for thei
87 BOACVC10 : Hi, as the original poster, I would like to thank you all a.netters for responding to my query, in a informative way, and I was taken aback at the nu
88 MillwallSean : A.net must be one of the few places where its the passengers fault all the time. No matter what it is, its like its some kind of privilege for passeng
89 IAirAllie : The report was lopsided. It only reported the opinions of those who were acting out the behaviors that got the flight cancelled. Do you think that th
90 Ikramerica : Not really. But you are right that to a T every airline employee on this site will back "their own kind" in these situations. This is the union menta
91 Nws2002 : Honestly, and 1hr 15min delay is not that long. I understand its frustrating, but as a crewmember I wouldn't take that either. Of course I would also
92 Contrails : I recall an incident in SFO where a UA crew got booed at for similar reasons. I forgot when it was, but it was posted here. I don't know why the crew
93 PGNCS : I don't see ANY lack of criticism of AA , the agents, of the flight crew here. Did you actually read the entire thread? I'm happy to go the extra mil
94 TXJim : Well, like any other airline, AA has some very good ones (Thanks to the staff in MUC for the upgrades!) and some bad ones (certain agents at LGW and
95 Klkla : Exactly. The flying public is reaching the boiling point in regards to bad service in the airline industry. Airlines need to realize that they are no
96 Rscaife1682 : This is the funniest thing I have read this week RYAN FLTOPS
97 Iaddca : This is a very important point. I recently flew DCA-EWR and we were delayed. The gate agent was not forthcoming, and said the plane would be boarding
98 KAUSpilot : No, they're not.
99 AAH732UAL : Why is it so funny? He called me out so I answered.
100 TXJim : I suspect you already know this but this statement is false. AA is simply a collection of people, most of whom care about their customers. Blanket st
101 Hmflyer : I would have isolated the offending passengers and then not allow them to board so as not to inconvienience those passengers who were acting in a civi
102 PeterPuck : Airlines are completely different than other service industries. Those other industries do not need hundreds of people behind the scenes, and dozens
103 CokePopper : You would be adding fuel (free cocktails) to the fire!! Just what you want, a mob mentality plus free cocktails in a tube at 34000 ft. wtg!
104 IAirAllie : No they are not particularly when safety is involved. SWA has the right mentality when it comes to this idea. Brilliant lets fuel the anarchy and rio
105 Klkla : Their specific mission is different but they are not different in that they have to service the demands of the customer while providing their specifi
106 Tugger : Its not the passengers that are offering the bottom barrel prices, it s the airlines and they do it to their detriment. They want the last "marginal"
107 AAH732UAL : Not the flight crews either
108 SPREE34 : They did respect the flying public by not taking a bar brawl into the air. Even if their inbound equipment was late? You are not speaking logically h
109 44k : I have! some of my worst experiences have been in Europe Re: BA, LH & some smaller airline staff. Talk about rude! I am aware we do have some not so
110 PGNCS : No disrespect intended, but I thought the EXACT same thing, Ryan. These aren't exactly the flying credentials that most people on this board will fin
111 Barney Captain : What about treating the Crew with that same demanded respect? I'm sorry, but if I have just battled endless amounts of crap (weather, security, custo
112 KBOS : I was thinking the same thing. East coast flight, first week of July, you know there is going to be a thunderstorm someplace knocking everything off
113 Post contains images Carls : Buddy, I never said that in other airlines this things NEVER happens. You said it all, let's not generalize.....few incidents here and there are not
114 IRelayer : I think we are missing the point here. The ultimate responsibility lies not with the crew, and not with the passengers, but with the corporation who c
115 44k : I guess we agree to disagree. AA agents are some of the best in the US, IMO. On par with the airlines of the world, IMHO. Huge difference?! I could n
116 PGNCS : I couldn't have said it better. Thanks for your excellent summary of the crew perspective.
117 IAirAllie : Are we watching the same show? The airline that appears to come down hard on denying drunks travel is also giving away free booze to angry mobs? Yeah
118 Propjett : No re-thinking of the mind neccessary sir. The union, in this case, the APA is not only defiant of their airline, but are maliciously trying their ve
119 Propjett : I think if you got rid of the "socialist pilots" ....I love that! the "inept" management, which I don't think is so "inept" could run their airline m
120 Babybus : I don't know what it's like in USA but in the UK you just get a standard computer generated reply letter if you complain. I'm afraid it is practises
121 Post contains links Propjett : No sir, not at all. If you spend any time in Illinois, or Texas lately, you will see the billboards. Visit www.TellyourAAstory.com this website is ow
122 Ferengi80 : I am 100% in support of the crew here. The gate agents have obviously only told the passengers the crew were late, not that the crew were flying in on
123 SPREE34 : You spent a great deal of time vilifying APA and unions in general in your reply. You did not answer my question, which is: What is your proof that T
124 Propjett : First of all if you are going to quote something, don't quote part of a statement taking it out of context. The crew could have simply summond securi
125 Contrails : More practical? How? More immediate and memorable effect? Yes, they got an immediate and memorable effect - they were denied boarding and were strand
126 Carls : I did not intend to be offensive. I disagree with you, but I respect your opinion.
127 Post contains links SPREE34 : Now you are vilifying organizations that aren't unions, buy speaking of them along side of unions. ATCA is the Air Traffic Control Association. www.a
128 Propjett : I believe I did sir, If they were not trying to make a statement, they would have called security and removed the offending indivuduals from the flig
129 Ripcordd : STOP assuming what anyone did in MIA watch the VIDEO it will show that a couple of passengers said they really didn't do anything that bad and one guy
130 SPREE34 : I am retired from the federal government, 29 years, not the airlines or their unions. I EARNED my retirement! Now explain to me how the above stateme
131 AAH732UAL : No offense but that right there shows your a little loopy.
132 IAirAllie : How do you know security was not called? Just because this "indepth" (LOL) "report" didn't mention it doesn't mean it did not happen. That would be a
133 Barney Captain : Yes, we get paid apprx 80 hours a month. We however WORK considerably more than that. All the time spent pre-flighting the aircraft, checking weather
134 AAH732UAL : Man you got some amazing comebacks
135 SPREE34 : AAH732UAL brings up a good point. That's 80 hours out of the chocks. Did you know they don't count the hours the crew spends between flights? Don't c
136 PeterPuck : How can someone who posts on an airline enthusiast site not know this? People who claim to know the facts rarely do.
137 AAH732UAL : Not me, give that credit to Barney!
138 Ikramerica : yep, and my experiences in MIA with AA lead me to believe that this was part of the problem, and that this was the rest of the problem: over-reaction
139 SPREE34 : Certainly. Barney is always on the mark. Seems he hit enter before me, and I was referencing your pre-ammended reply to proppjett.
140 Propjett : Yes, I am very aware of that. They still earn a very handsome wage for what they do. The mechanics, for example have to put in 40 hour weeks to earn
141 Propjett : I am very well aware of what goes on before, during, and after a flight and the responsibilites that are taken care of "off the clock" as stated abov
142 SPREE34 : I don't know who ATCO is. If you meant ATCA, no. PATCO was a labor union. ATCA, is an association of corporations, other associations, and individual
143 Klkla : As I said earlier that was only an example of what could be done. I have seen Southwest do it on the show. They obviously don't give drinks to drunk
144 Barney Captain : I don't believe, nor ever even implied that. My "logic" was in direct reference to you're implication that pilots "are paid quite handsomely for what
145 Post contains links Propjett : Country: United States Location: A Pub will work Occupation: Retired ATC (ATCO) Oh really? Check your own profile. I think the difference in pay in Re
146 KAUSpilot : Pilots are paid like they are because they save lives, and liability for the airline, when engineers like yourself have "design flaws". Engineers des
147 Propjett : So what's your justification for the HUGE pay difference between RJ pilots and Mainline pilots, say for example a 50 year old pilot, military experie
148 KAUSpilot : A mainline or widebody pilot has a greater payload, and thus greater liability exposure for the airline. The fact that mainline pilots are compensate
149 Iaddca : I really have great respect for pilots, it's a great profession and requires all kinds of skills many people don't have. That said, you guys really n
150 RIPCORDD : lkramerica you are talking about this incident as tho you were there? Where you there? If not don't say the they became agitated only after the crew
151 AAH732UAL : Well what about 60,000 per at bat for A rod and the the entire Tampa Rays Salary cap is lower then what he makes a year. Just means he is at a more p
152 SPREE34 : Oh really? Once again you fire a shot before doing a bit of research. The (ATCO) you see in my profile is reference to the European term for Air Traf
153 KAUSpilot : Pilot wages don't have such a wide variance either, fleet type to fleet type. Most RJ pilots make within 15% of their counterparts at other airlines,
154 Tsaord : Was the crew late on their own accord or an incoming flight they were on was late?
155 Propjett : As I said I am an engineer, and I don't design things, I fix things other screw up (electronics and such) including some aviation navigation systems
156 SPREE34 : The pilots got what the market would bear, same as you. So why the acrimony toward them? The present market for pilots won't bear it anymore, and we
157 Carls : I agree with you, but don't yuou think this is way off the topic of this forum????
158 Dispatchguy : Yesterday, I was a part of a 3 hour WX delay at ATL due to some severe thunderstorms. During the actual rain storm, you couldnt even see across the ra
159 Propjett : Yes, it was originally topical when refering to the actions of the crew, but has gone way beyond that, really the subject is a good one to debate but
160 Propjett : This could have been the end result of the other situation if the pilots and f/a'a would have joined in the "bronx cheer" brought some humor to it an
161 RIPCORDD : Propjett the crew was looking for a fight wow you must have been there. What else happen did you see the gate agents break out the ice cream sundee ca
162 IAirAllie : You really don't have a clue do you. You seem to think most pilots out there are getting $250,000 dollars in annual pay. That my friend is very very
163 Rjpieces : Which demographic are you referring to re: MIA? I fly JFK-FLL a lot more than JFK-MIA, but JFK-FLL always seems to be a nice mix of Hispanics, Jews,
164 Propjett : [quote=IAirAllie,reply=162]For what they spend in time and money getting all their certificates the financial returns are just not there anymore. If i
165 SPREE34 : And they make more money on the 737 than American, and many other carriers.
166 Propjett : Where is your proof?
167 Post contains links SPREE34 : Here's five examples of my proof. www.airlinepilotcentral.com/ http://willflyforfood.cc/airlinepilotpay/ http://www.aviationinterviews.com/compare_pa
168 IAirAllie : Are you being deliberately obtuse? As someone working on a second and third degree concurrently I know that education isn't cheap. If you actually re
169 Propjett : I would venture to say that the top teir of Airline Pilots making the big bucks are ex military, as many years ago, Airlines prefered to hire ex-mili
170 AAH732UAL : Not always true. While being ex-Mil has its advantages. Most are from the civilian ranks. Also a few of my pals said it was better they did not go in
171 AAH732UAL : I didn't even read this. This is a joke and a half. Pilots/FAs/anyone part of a Union has the right to complain about management. The simple fact is,
172 SPREE34 : The arrogance,ignorance, and small mindedness of this statement is immeasurable. When they (Military) get their flight training they agree to defend
173 IAirAllie : Can anyone say OFF TOPIC?
174 DTWAGENT : This is getting crazy. And it is only going to get worst now that the airlines are cutting back on schedules and employees. I'm not saying I'm happy w
175 SPREE34 : Yep. But when you are handed the opportunity to educate the unknowing.............
176 Propjett : No where in that statement did I discount those fine men and women who defend us around the world from the air in our armed forces. I just simply mad
177 SPREE34 : Seems a trait we share. Back to the Thread Subject. This crew acted in the interest of safety of flight.
178 Propjett : You have it your way, I'll have it mine....how bout that? Agree to Disagree.
179 SPREE34 : Yeah, I need to go study for my upgrade to General Class and pack my bags for Farnborough. Twas fun. de SPREE34
180 Propjett : If I would have known you were a fellow ham I wouldn't have given you such a hard time!
181 SPREE34 : Hey, we had a ball. I needed the practice.
182 IAirAllie : "For background: The crews who work caribbean and MIA know the difference between hostile/dangerous and hostile/blowhard. You work enough of those lat
183 Rscaife1682 : Firstly, welcome to the website.......Your comment here is uncalled for and I cannot understand how you know this to be true. I found in my youngers
184 Propjett : How would they know someones sexual orientation unless they were "dressed down" or had their flame turned up a little to high, both of which would ha
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