RJ_Delta From Chile, joined Oct 2000, 1914 posts, RR: 16 Posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 12974 times:
A new chapter in the Aerolineas Argentinas history or in this case tragedy, specially if we considers the last management under Marsans Group. As we discuss in others threads, the situation of Aerolineas is very difficult because its financial problems, lack of investment, several of strikes and cancellations, conflicts between the Unions- Marsans-Goverment and so on.
The last audits of the company demonstrated the bad situation of the company and the possible new partner of the airline - Lopez Mena owner of Buquebús- declined its intention to invest in Aerolineas.
Also part of the AR/AU fleet is grounded waiting for maintenance or simply stored in some airport. For example: 2 Austral' s MD80s are parked in Jujuy.
Yesterday in the afternoon a couple of flight was delayed because a possible strike of A.A.A. Union to discuss the future of the company and according some media some groups want the bankruptcy of the company.
Finally according with the media "Critica Digital", today July 9 the President of Argentina Cristina Fernández de Kirchner will announce its decision to take over the company and restate it.
DCAJet From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 276 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 12778 times:
Given the current political climate in Argentina (the Kirchner administration in a bitter fight with the agricultural producers over tax revenues with no end in sight) there is hardly any space left in the national psyche for yet another conflict. Bruised and battered as it is, the Aerolineas franchise is still immensely powerful in the collective mind of Argentinians and letting it die just like this is something the Cristina Kirchner administration will not allow - for practical and philosophical reasons.
Combative unions, restrictive Argentinian policies and current oil prices aside (all of which have had their fair share in taking Aerolineas to where it finds itself today), I don't think enough has been written or is known about the horror that Marsans (and Iberia/SEPI before them) have been - and continue to be. One could write many examples of the systematic pilfering of AR's assets for the benefit of Air Plus Comet, Air Plus Chile, etc.
As much as one prefers to see Aerolineas Argentinas a healthy concern in the hands of a responsible owner (private, publicly held, etc.) rather than in the hands of the state, I think I join many in Argentina with a loud good riddance Marsans crooks! Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out!
Hardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 56 Reply 2, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 12723 times:
Quoting RJ_Delta (Thread starter): the possible new partner of the airline - Lopez Mena owner of Buquebús- declined its intention to invest in Aerolineas.
This is really bad news. The Government had also approved subsidies to air fuel to help AR market value but apparently this was of no help.
GatoVolador From Spain, joined Apr 2007, 435 posts, RR: 1 Reply 3, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 12675 times:
I really feed sad for the people of Argentina. Their government is showing a clear lack of juridical stability for foreign investors, which is very bad for them. We have to remember that:
1st) Marsans is a touristic company who dedicated to travel agencies in Spain (Viajes Marsans, Vie Viajes, marsans.com), scheduled domestic carriers (they founded years ago Spanair), a long-haul "low-cost" (between brakets) carrier called Air Comet, that covers an extensive Spain-LATAM network, they had a charter and ACMI operator (Air Pullmantur, that operates B747s), they had cruises, etc. etc. Marsans is a large company and they perform quite good. But in Argentina, they didn't achieved their goals, mainly because of the lack of cooperation of the unions and because the government was against them. How can a foreign investor invest in a country where the government is constantly trying to show them the door?
2nd) I can usually read here that Marsans was dismantling AerolÃneas Argentinas in favor of Air Comet. How can this be true if they are fully independent carriers if they only overlap in the EZE-MAD route, and according the the schedules of AerolÃneas, Air Comet only operates 2 weekly flights out of 14 and the rest is operated by AerolÃneas? Even more, Air Comet and AerolÃneas codeshare so that Air Comet sells AerolÃneas Argentinas flights as Air Comet flights. So, Air Comet is increasing the number of passengers flying AerolÃneas. Even much more, Air Comet operated MAD-LGW/CDG/FCO flights on behalf of AerolÃneas Argentinas.
The only dismantlement can be the fact that Air Comet leased some AerolÃneas and Austral aircrafts. For instance, Air Plus Comet (now Air Comet) used to operate MDs from Argentina, or B747s. But of course, Marsans paid AerolÃneas Argentinas a price, so at the end.... it think that this was good for them.
3rd) Marsans was committed to renew AerolÃneas Argentinas fleet. They bought A320s, A330s, A350s, and even the A380. Is this bad to AerolÃneas Argentinas?
4th) The government of Argentina obliged Marsans to sell the majority of the shares. But they even wanted to star with a 35%. They signed a contract with Cristina and with this local investors. Now, it seems that they will not be able to respect the contract, and probably the government will takeover AerolÃneas Argentinas. Is this serious? Why Buquebus decided not to join Marsans and the government of Argentina? Why didin't they study the purchase before the signature of the contract?
RJ_Delta From Chile, joined Oct 2000, 1914 posts, RR: 16 Reply 4, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 12589 times:
Quoting GatoVolador (Reply 3): But in Argentina, they didn't achieved their goals, mainly because of the lack of cooperation of the unions and because the government was against them.
Maybe their achieved its goals. Earn money without investment. I agree with you that the Unions have a quote of responsibility in the AR situation, specially related with its combative policy but Marsans Group is not a saint, they have a big responsability in terms of management and investment. There is many reports confirmed this and we have the example of the bad situation of the AR/ AU fleet where half of the aircrafts are grounded. The situation repeats also in Chile where Air Comet Chile has accumulate many debts with its suppliers (Maintenance, Handling, System Reservation), where some companies have cut its service to Marsans.
Quoting GatoVolador (Reply 3): I can usually read here that Marsans was dismantling AerolÃneas Argentinas in favor of Air Comet. How can this be true if they are fully independent carriers if they only overlap in the EZE-MAD route, and according the the schedules of AerolÃneas, Air Comet only operates 2 weekly flights out of 14 and the rest is operated by AerolÃneas?
Marsans used Aerolineas' capital in favor to develop Air Comet and create Air Comet Chile. You can remember that major part of the Air Comet long haul fleet was formed by AR planes, and two AerolÃneas del Sur/ Air Comet Chile' B732 was transferred from Aerolineas to Air Comet Chile. Also the fuel for Air Comet Chile and Air Comet operations in Chile, Argentina and others countries in Latam was costed by Aerolineas. Maybe MD11junkie or LVZXV or other members has more information about this. In relation with Air Comet Chile is not casual that when Marsanscould leave Aerolineas they announced that will retire of the fleet the two B732 ex AR? Can you check more about this in:
Quoting GatoVolador (Reply 3): Marsans was committed to renew AerolÃneas Argentinas fleet. They bought A320s, A330s, A350s, and even the A380. Is this bad to AerolÃneas Argentinas?
Of course is not bad, is a grat oportunity. However Marsans has signed only a MOU for its new Airbuses. If we consider the previous order of 12 A330 Marsans has delayed the delivery of the 6 A330-200 to Aerolineas until 2009 after Air Comet receives its planes first.
Alianza From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 230 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 12558 times:
Quoting RJ_Delta (Reply 4): the example of the bad situation of the AR/ AU fleet where half of the aircrafts are grounded.
This is quite a bad situation for Argentina travelers.
RJ, if AR is very paralized in their operations, which carriers are operating in Argentina to provide service on the AR routes? Is it only Air Comet that is benefiting from this current situation?
DCAjet From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 276 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 12496 times:
Hola GatoVolador:
What you say about respecting the legal rights of foreign investors such as Marsans, Telefonica, Gas Natural, etc., is very well taken and it is a shame. The peculiar ways of the Kirchners when it comes to government leaves a lot to be desired and as a dual citizen of Argentina and the USA I really feel Argentina deserves better as a country. But lets not forget that the Kirchners are part of Argentina, were voted in unquestionable elections, and won. Furthermore, they are not an abstraction but part of the country so one needs to wonder that it is not just the Kirchners... A sizeable part of the country - ever decreasing - supports them. But you see, no one in Argentina is questioning Telefonica. Why? Because they came and did what they were supposed to do: provide good, modern communications, mobile or fixed line. They run a serious company and no one has anything to say about them.
While the Kirchner administration lacks in seriousness... Marsans does equally bad or even worse in the seriousness department. Lets see:
1. The cat fights between Antonio Mata and Gonzalo Pascual & Co that resulted in Mata being sent back to Spain a few millions richer but effectively out of the airline. Is that serious?
2. Mata treating the competition and AR's unions like they were retarded children openly in the press creating the most hostile work environment the airline has seen in over 58 years of existence. Is that serious?
3. The bombastic announcements of Mata and then Pascual and Melia. Lets see: Ciudad Aerolineas, hotels all over the country, new aircraft, new routes, etc. Even last winter with the 70+ Airbus order... yet to be confirmed. Is that serious?
4. The planes. Take 3 747-200 back in 2001 - in perfect state - LV-MLP, OOZ , YBS and OPA. To this day, no one has seen a penny from their leases. Give them to Air Plus and liberally fry more JTD9s in 3 years of operations than in all 32 years of 747 operations at AR. Send them back only good for Coca Cola cans. Interiors destroyed. If you do a quick search on Google you will find pictures of the sad state of Air Plus's A310. Is that serious?
5. Who has been funding for the most part the operations of Air Comet Chile (nee Aerolineas del Sur)? And paying for their JP-1? Is that serious?
6. Operating routes on a lackadaisical basis. Lets see, if it is April we fly to JFK, then in May we don't but do it as a tag on from Miami but leaving Buenos Aires at 3 AM, such a convenient schedule In June we resume it, but only for 15 days... Is that serious?
7. Not paying their suppliers. Is that serious?
8. Cancelling in flight entertainment for lack of money to pay the movies rental fee - to the tune of US$23,000/month. Is that serious?
9. Screwing unsuspecting passengers with horrible delays simply because there are no planes to fly the schedules Marsans pulls out of the blue? When half of the fleet is grounded being cannibalized to keep the other half flying? Is that serious?
10. Mata coming back a few years later to Argentina trying to open yet another airline - Air Pampas, with all the same bombastic announcements we heard already. 25 MD80s, flights to all over the country... Of course he has more chances of growing a third eye than having that airline approved... Is that serious?
11. Do you know that because of the above and simply lack of cash there are communities in Argentina that have been rendered completely isolated for people and goods as air service is the only efficient way to reach them? Like wintertime in certain Patagonian routes? Is screwing all that people serious? This is not a charter airline flying happy Madrilenos to Punta Cana, my friend. This is the lifeline of small towns that depend on this service on a daily basis for things such as medicines, etc. Again, is that serious?
12. Flights to Madrid for instance, leaving with only Diet Coke as a soft dirnk and no wine, simply because Marsans has not paid the bills. Screwing passengers one more time. Is that serious?
13. Not paying salaries. Is that serious?
14. Bringing planes and not paying the lessors with ZERO intentions of flying them - no spares, no support equipment, etc. - but just to pressure the unions and the government. Let them rot in EZE trying to make the point: but we brought "new" equipment. 2 Airbus 320, 1992 vintage...
I could also add here some pearls from the SEPI days (where are the simulators? and the coffee makers from the galleys that went up in smoke overnight - only to replaced by jars of instant coffee of the cheapest quality- undrinkable btw?) And what about the JT8D-17 engines that dissappered overnight from the 727-200 fleet back in 1992-97, only to be replaced by the JT8D-7 that were coming off the Iberia 727s being taken out of service, rendering the fleet in fact unable to fly to destinations such as La Paz, Bolivia? Is that serious?
If the conditions in Argentina are so awful (which I partly agree with you - lack of a coherent airline policy from the goverment, over active unions, gas prices in pesos and expenses in dollars, etc.) the thing to do is to leave when they realized this is not good business for Marsans. But stringing 8000 employess along - not to mention millions of customers, is really despicable. And you expect the pilots not to strike? Or the flight attendants? Antonio Mata is no dummy and if he wants to come back and open another airline... there must be money to be made there.
What does not surprise me is the fact that over the past 17 years AR has maintained the same sterling safety record - the best of any airline in LatAm. Which is a a tribute to its staff as I can tell in with good faith that working on a robbing Peter to pay Paul basis as it has been the case for a long time is not easy fate.
This is not a criticism of Spain but rather of some unscrupulous folks that thought that running a national airline (with a socioeconomic role to play) was like flying people in charters to the Caribbean and had no plan whatsoever to run an airline like AR. And of course, the Kirchner administration, past and present, that let this situation fester to the degree it is today.
ARGIEPILOT From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 51 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 12465 times:
Quoting DCAJet (Reply 1): As much as one prefers to see Aerolineas Argentinas a healthy concern in the hands of a responsible owner (private, publicly held, etc.) rather than in the hands of the state, I think I join many in Argentina with a loud good riddance Marsans crooks! Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out!
ARGIEPILOT From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 51 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 12445 times:
Quoting DCAjet (Reply 6): This is not a criticism of Spain but rather of some unscrupulous folks that thought that running a national airline (with a socioeconomic role to play) was like flying people in charters to the Caribbean and had no plan whatsoever to run an airline like AR.
Even better than your previous post! Spot on description and analysis. Definitely added to my respected members list.
Hopefully this horror story that began with Aerolineas privatization is coming to an end. Not many are aware that if it wasn't for the guts and hard work from Aerolineas employee's the company would have ended liquidated like VIASA. Luckily that won't happen.
Jfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 6319 posts, RR: 1 Reply 9, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 12396 times:
AR needs to start with a clean slate. Forget about flying 3 times a week to any place they can sell 700 tickets a week to. Why does AR need to ly to Australia and NZ ? Miami, Madrid, BCN and Roma should be there only non south american cities. Then either A340 or 744 should be the intercontinental fleet not 5 of each, 10 or 15 of one type, A340 would be better. hen fly daily to each city or doublr daily if demand warants it, MAD most likely. Simplify, simplify should be AR's plans.
ZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 4860 posts, RR: 14 Reply 10, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 12382 times:
Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 9): AR needs to start with a clean slate. Forget about flying 3 times a week to any place they can sell 700 tickets a week to. Why does AR need to ly to Australia and NZ ? Miami, Madrid, BCN and Roma should be there only non south american cities. Then either A340 or 744 should be the intercontinental fleet not 5 of each, 10 or 15 of one type, A340 would be better. hen fly daily to each city or doublr daily if demand warants it, MAD most likely. Simplify, simplify should be AR's plans
It is sad to see AR in such bad state. I agree they probably don't need the 744 in the fleet, they should have stuck to the original A340 order back in 1998, 4x 342s 2x 343s and 6x 346s. They recently did add 2 343s to the fleet. But the 346s were cancelled.
The AKL/SYD route is ARs most profitable and is going up to 5x weekly from October.
Argentina From Argentina, joined Aug 2000, 369 posts, RR: 16 Reply 11, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 12375 times:
Quoting DCAjet (Reply 6): This is not a charter airline flying happy Madrilenos to Punta Cana, my friend. This is the lifeline of small towns that depend on this service on a daily basis for things such as medicines, etc. Again, is that serious?
Quoting DCAjet (Reply 6): Bringing planes and not paying the lessors with ZERO intentions of flying them - no spares, no support equipment, etc. - but just to pressure the unions and the government. Let them rot in EZE trying to make the point: but we brought "new" equipment. 2 Airbus 320, 1992 vintage...
DCAjet From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 276 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 12378 times:
Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 9): Why does AR need to ly to Australia and NZ
Their most profitable route, actually. The EZE-AKL and EZE-SYD city pairs are a license to print money. Madrid? Forget it, barely profitble if at all. Same for Rome - all you end up doing is flying VFR and leisure traffic. The business traffic to/from Europe flies Air France, Lufthansa and Iberia. BA and AZ to a lesser extent. The first one for lack of frequencies (going to daily in October) and the latter for being a flying disaster. MIA? JFK? One word: American Airlines. 'Nuff said there!
RJ_Delta From Chile, joined Oct 2000, 1914 posts, RR: 16 Reply 13, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 12349 times:
Quoting Alianza (Reply 5): RJ, if AR is very paralized in their operations, which carriers are operating in Argentina to provide service on the AR routes? Is it only Air Comet that is benefiting from this current situation?
I'm sure Lan is gaining from this, no.
LAN has not intention to replace AR in Argentina. They only want to connect the main cities to its Latin American Network. If LAN would have any intention to be the main carrier in Argentina they have been increased its operation early, extending its services to secondary cities in Argentina. The only reason which explain the recent expansion of LAN Argentina is the extension of the RCCA and the fares increase.
Of course, considering the problems of AR/AU LAN has taken advantage in the cities served by both carriers, specially because a high type of service (punctuality, quality).
RJ_Delta From Chile, joined Oct 2000, 1914 posts, RR: 16 Reply 14, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 12347 times:
Also Aerolineas will retire 1 B747-400 (LV-BBU) and its both A310-300. The LV-AZL will leave the fleet from the middle July and the LV-AIV in the next month. So by the end of the year the AR long haul fleet will be formed by:
4 A340-200 (LV-ZRA parked in EZE since February or March 2008 waiting maintenance)
2 A340-300
2 B747-400
Argentina From Argentina, joined Aug 2000, 369 posts, RR: 16 Reply 15, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 12327 times:
Quoting RJ_Delta (Reply 14): Also Aerolineas will retire 1 B747-400 (LV-BBU) and its both A310-300. The LV-AZL will leave the fleet from the middle July and the LV-AIV in the next month. So by the end of the year the AR long haul fleet will be formed by:
Routes to CCS and BOG, are scheduled with A342 and A343 during second half of July. Will AR be able to fill them? They seem to be nonstops. Isn´t a 4 engine aircraft too expensive for those medium haul markets?
ARGIEPILOT From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 51 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 12307 times:
Quoting RJ_Delta (Reply 14): Also Aerolineas will retire 1 B747-400 (LV-BBU) and its both A310-300. The LV-AZL will leave the fleet from the middle July and the LV-AIV in the next month.
Didn't know about the 744 leaving AR. The information on the A310's seems to be correct. That is what I have been hearing also. Don't know why the 310s are leaving the company without proper replacements. Those were flying full time until march. Probably the aircraft with the highest utilization rates on AR. I don't know if it was possible to find (worldwide) 310s flying as many hours per day as those two were flying.
ARGIEPILOT From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 51 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 12300 times:
Quoting Argentina (Reply 15): Routes to CCS and BOG, are scheduled with A342 and A343 during second half of July
I've heard that BOG was to be done with the A340 and CCS with the 735 (with a technical stop at Viru Viru).
LVHGEL From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2007, 206 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 12174 times:
Well guys, the latest news are that there will be a Judicial Intervention, (roughly similar to a Ch 11 in USA, again roughly similar in concept) requested by the government. The intervention will first, pay the outstanding salaries using credits from the Banco de La Nacion (Government owned bank), and see if it the debt can be restructured. In the mean time, rumor has it, that the most promising buyer Juan Carlos López Mena, Owner of the ferries line Buquebus, is not as "exultant" as before , because in the little due diligence done, he as a businessman, has realized that it is not a very sound proposition to buy AR in it's actual state. On the other hand the unions promised a 60 day moratorium in actions against the Company.
So lets see how this play out.
Here the source for this post (sorry only in Spanish):
TANS From Czech Republic, joined May 2005, 134 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 12114 times:
I think you hit the nail on the head, DCAjet - great post!
I’ve flown with Aerolineas many times and sent many clients on their wings, but nowadays if there is a LAN or any other flight available they don’t get my business. No matter if they are ‘cheaper’ or more convenient, it is not worth the risk and ‘service.’
Hardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 56 Reply 22, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 12070 times:
Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 10): The AKL/SYD route is ARs most profitable and is going up to 5x weekly from October.
Quoting DCAjet (Reply 12): Their most profitable route, actually. The EZE-AKL and EZE-SYD city pairs are a license to print money. Madrid? Forget it, barely profitble if at all. Same for Rome - all you end up doing is flying VFR and leisure traffic. The business traffic to/from Europe flies Air France, Lufthansa and Iberia. BA and AZ to a lesser extent. The first one for lack of frequencies (going to daily in October) and the latter for being a flying disaster. MIA? JFK? One word: American Airlines. 'Nuff said there!
I think GIG and GRU, in this order, are the most profitable routes for AR.
DCAjet From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 276 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 12038 times:
Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 22): I think GIG and GRU, in this order, are the most profitable routes for AR.
I was referring to long haul routes, but in the overall scheme, GIG and GRU could be the most profitable ones, especially now that the only full service competition left for AR is JJ. Gol is in another league altogether, but does very well in Argentina and is well liked by the Argentinian leisure traveler. I am not sure how "a nova Varig" is doing in the Argentina Brazil market these days... Does anyone know and could throw some light on their performance in the Argentinian market? The old Varig - a nossa Varig - had tremendous brand power in Argentina, the result of many years of awesome service and dedication to the local market.
SJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 3731 posts, RR: 6 Reply 24, posted (3 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 11984 times:
Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 9): Why does AR need to ly to Australia and NZ ? Miami, Madrid, BCN and Roma should be there only non south american cities
AR might keep their services aiming to JFK, but it's a hard issue given its current situation.
AA is currently flying the segment JFK-EZE and it demonstrates that the market-share is really guaranteed there.
Regards.
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
25 Kelual: DCAjet I totally agree with you Marsans has turned into rubbish everything they've touched... Spanair never had benefits, They underpay all the employ
27 ARGIEPILOT: What impact would this (Marsans being out of AR) have in Air Comet Chile?
28 ATLTPA: I have read discussion on the Salvemos Aerolineas website www.salvemosaerolineas.com.ar that Marsans is trying to maintain its investment in Austral (
29 ARGIEPILOT: I agree. I don't think that Marsans will keep Austral.
30 Hardiwv: In fact LAN Argentina operates the B767 with the new business class EZE-GRU. In addition, you have BA operating the B747 in the route as well. RG app
31 DCAjet: Indeed, but LAN is only 6x week and BA 4x week (maybe 5?). So, if you are the bread and butter of the EZE-GRU run, the business person who will pay t
32 DCAjet: A nice battle is brewing here, btw. Currently AA flies JFK-EZE 7x week, to be increased to 12x week from December 08 onwards. Add Delta to the mix, w
33 LH459: I'm so sad about AR's woes, but hopeful that sanity will return when Marsans is gone. AR has had an unfortunate nickname ("Aerolineas Boludas") in my
34 Hardiwv: Daily GRU-EZE B747 from October as GIG will receive dedicated BA service: 3 x week B772 nonstop. Rgs,
35 RJ_Delta: The main impact for Air Comet Chile is that the Chilean subsidiary will have to support its own operations because until a couple months ago 3I uses
36 TBCITDG: DCA: By far one the most intelligent posts I have read in a long time. Just read that Jaime has come out publicly questioning Marsans "investments" an
37 DCAjet: That in and of itself is another can of worms, but at this junction and with the current state of Aerolineas being a black hole hoovering cash by the
38 DCAjet: I never thought I'd agree with him but he is DAMN RIGHT. What investments exactly? Lets see: SEPI hands them down as a gift a company with ZERO debt
39 Stock1985: Simple question: why is EZE-AKL-SYD the most profitable route? I am not disputing, as Qantas is returning to the EZE market, but I did not see more th
40 MD11junkie: Actually, SEPI handed them taxpayer money (USD 750 million) to heal the company from all the debts incurred by their disastrous (and AA's) administra
41 Kiwiandrew: I thought QF were going for SYD-SCL nonstop rather than going back to Argentina
43 Kiwiandrew: " target=_blank>http://elaereo.blogspot.com/search/l...rways thanks Gaston - I would have sworn that QF had announced SYD-SCL nonstop rather than SYD
44 MD11junkie: They did! But they changed their mind
45 Kiwiandrew: really ? I feel much better , I thought it was the first signs of impending senile dementia . I just wish NZ would announce AKL-EZE - then again I am
46 RJ_Delta: Now Qantas will start SYD-EZE in November with in codeshare with LAN Argentina and LAN Chile will continue to offer its daily flights to SYD via AKL
47 TBCITDG: RJ_Delta Are you sure the the LA flight is daily? Wonder how the direct flights offered by QF will effect LA operations. The product offered by QF on
48 RJ_Delta: Daily, but during the next month LAN will reduce to 6 weekly flights because the A340s will go to maintenance and retrofit. Saludos,
49 DCAjet: Hmmm,,, interesting idea. But LAX still has the edge over EZE here. Not sure how long the SYD-EZE leg will be, non stop. But I reckon it has to be in
50 TBCITDG: I'll throw one out to the waaaaaaay out there and ask, what about Europe? Especially Spain? When you take into consideration LHR! SYD-EZE-MAD?
51 EZEIZA: but afaik they took planes from AR to serve their own flights during high season as well as taking "healthy" AR parts to use them om their planes whe
52 DCAjet: Basically, not a single supplier has been paid. They owe the proverbial candle to every single saint up in the heavens. My buddy (Jefe de Cabina with
53 TP727: Are all the flights running late? What about the AKL/SYD? Be safe. Gilson.
54 DCAjet: I think that any delays these days are for lack of planes, mx or wx as there is a 60-day cooling period between the airline and the unions. In other
55 CityofAthens: Fascinating thread .... very much like a novela - but a sad one.
56 RJ_Delta: Considering the Iberia-AA-SEPI-Marsans management it's like an old tragedy. Saludos,
57 Cubsrule: Going through EZE instead of LAX adds something on the order of 3500 miles to the trip, and connection times almost have to be better at LAX (because
58 RJ_Delta: Today has been registered some delays and cancellations in AR/ AU flights. Although some of its problems was caused because meteorological reason, the
59 RJ_Delta: According with some rumours and media information, today the Argentinian Government would take over of the 96,4% of the Marsans shares in Aerolineas A
60 EZEIZA: And there are two perfectly healthy (oldish, but healthy) A320's just sunbathing in EZE ... amazing ... saludos
61 RJ_Delta: Healthy but without materials to fly. Saludos,
62 LVHGEL: It's done. Marsans is out. The government will buy out Marsans (form both AR And Austral). I have mixed feelings, 1) I know in Argentina there is the
63 LVICS: The government has been involved, in different ways, in AR since former president Kirchner took office, five years ago.
64 PZ707: C´mon EK! Come to the beauty Argentina!! Buy the company and make it work, you´ll not regret your investment! There is a nice domestic market and a
65 LVHGEL: Do you think K influence on the unions has brought the situation to this point?
66 Cubsrule: I have to wonder (and I'd be happy to here from some folks who know the current situation in Argentina better than I) whether Marsans' seemingly dysf
67 LVICS: I didn't say that. I certainly don't think that. If we are going to talk about how we got to this point, I mostly agree with what DCAjet has posted h
68 RJ_Delta: Air Comet Chile drop Temuco and Balmaceda from July 31. Air Comet probably drop MAD-SCL from August 31 and MAD-EZE from Sept. 4. It's not possible to
69 Commavia: Well, not to get too political, but sorry to say, I think the present Argentinian administration would be about the last people I would put in charge
70 TBCITDG: Have read on-line that AR has a US$800 million debt and looks like K and co would like to strike a deal with Marsans effectively returning the state t
71 EZEIZA: I don't want to go off-topic or look like I'm defending the K government, byt the tax on farmers' exports was already in place. The fight now is beca
72 LVICS: Well, this IS off topic. Not sure whether you meant it or not, but the way you put it makes it sound as if the export tax plays the same role than (o
73 EZEIZA: I did mean it; it's still an income tax, yes added to an already existing income tax, but an income tax after all (meaning a tax based on income from
75 TBCITDG: Just read this on www.infobae.com !! Sorry Spanish only. El Estado sigue afrontando los gastos de AerolÃneas La SecretarÃa de Transporte volvió a h
76 EZEIZA: Well, if Marsans doesn't pay ... don't know, everyhthing is so complicated I'm pretty lost ...
77 TBCITDG: So the Government pays for the employee wages, spare parts even gives AR subsidies for fuel . . . WHAT IS MARSANS PAYING FOR????????
78 DCAjet: Nothing wrong with Argentina or any structural issues. Just sheer greed from the Marsans folks and lack of a coherent airline policy from the Argenti
79 EZEIZA: I agree ... saving AR will IMO become a number 1 priority now. As I mentioned earlier, for a populist govt' , image is everything, and right now thei
81 RJ_Delta: Excellent news for Aerolineas. Now its time (and I hope) that the Argentinian State can rebuild the company. It's a new opportunity for AR and I hope
82 Hardiwv: To be very honest I think the State should go out of the AR business and leave the aviation business to operate under market forces. I think there ar
83 RJ_Delta: I agree with you. I don't like the idea of a State company but considering the current situation AR is not attractive for anyone and its the only opt
84 Hardiwv: The price tag will be too high for the Argentinian tax payer...LAN is already a well established airline in Argentina and could fly the Argentinian f
85 RJ_Delta: LAN has no interest to be the Argentinian flag carrier. Although the prices were increased during the last month, the current ticket price continue i
86 EZEIZA: i was told on another forum that apparently, yet nothing official yet, LAN Arg. will be starting flights to MAD? Anyone knows about this? And also rel
87 RJ_Delta: LAN has the intention to open its first European during this year -FCO intially then switched to MAD- using an Airbus A343 transferred from LAN Chile
88 EZEIZA: That was what I had heard. Cool to see the winglet 767 over here IMO LAN is in a unique position to gain further market here, especially longhaul. I
89 RJ_Delta: Actually the widebody fleet are more profitable in LAN Chile/Peru/Ecuador. So that is the reason because LAN return the 3rd LAN Arg. B763 to Chile (L
90 DCAjet: Actually, that is not the case. They are not breaking any occupancy records, but the load factors are not as low as one would expect them to be for a
92 Stgs1988: Something that I'm not quite sure about is the structure of the company... Is there a Mother-company that is based in Bs. As. that owns AR and AU. And
93 RJ_Delta: According with the Goverment the plan is to offer Aerolineas and Austral to a new private investor. This is the original idea but in the next 60 days
94 EZEIZA: And maybe a new livery too hopefully! Seriously though, we won't know much until the 60 days pass ...
95 RJ_Delta: Yes and I 'm sure that the new owner will change the livery to symbolize the end of the Marsans era. But today AR has another priorities. The owner w
96 Gonzalo: Well, IMHO a new livery is maybe the less important change that AR needs at this moment, but certainly would be nice to see a change of the current b
97 EZEIZA: I agree, it's the last of their concerns, but The power of image means a lot, and although we agreed that its by no means top priority, a complete ma
99 Alianza: Encima de todo esto...on top of all this, Marsans or AR was involved in cargo price fixing !! http://www.stuff.co.nz/4620711a13.html "...The Commerce
100 RJ_Delta: Another bad news for AR and consequence of the Marsans management. On Friday Julio Alak was named the new director of Aerolineas Argentinas during th
101 ATLTPA: The TV report was excellent, RJ_Delta-- thanks for posting the link. No one has mentioned the two A320s recently. Still sitting in Buenos Aires, or ha
102 RJ_Delta: As far I know the two A320 still parked in Chivatos. Some rumours indicates that AR are negotiating to keep them. Maybe MD11junkie has more informati
103 Summa767: Thanks for the video link. Very intesting to hear Captain Pinero's opinions, and the tour of the hangar and quasi scrap-yard. It's almost dark comedy
104 Alianza: Yes, gracias Ricardo, that was very good. The AR fleet was 121 as shown on the link below. Do you know the current situation of how many are parked a
105 Gonzalo: Thanks for posting that link RJ Delta, very interesting...when i saw Enrique Pineiro reminds me the WRZ film and the acid "Fuerza Aerea Sociedad Anon
106 MD11junkie: Yes - it's an ex A7 plane... (oh dear) Lack of spare parts. The 2 A310's AR operates/operated were a POS. They were grounded fairly often, and add to
107 Latinplane: http://www.lanacion.com.ar/nota.asp?...ta_id=1032222&pid=4776831&toi=6256 So as of today both carriers are 100% officially pure Argentine again. El Co
108 Gonzalo: Yes, It's done !!! AR is a state-owned airline from now on. According to the article in La Nación, the company has a debt of (U$D) 890 millions, and
109 TBCITDG: OK: So the show is over and AR has gone back to the people of Argentina. I ask myself . . What now? Ideally there will be parts coming in to increase
110 MoMan: I am in Buenos Aires and I took the following picture below this afternoon. These people were protesting for Aerolineas outside of the Plaza de Mayo,
111 RJ_Delta: Today start a new opportunity for Aerolineas and I hope that the State take it. Marsans will have to modified its airline business specially if we co
112 Arcano: Sorry, I know this is a little bit off topic, but this is JUST THE BEST record ever on an airline and it's all about Aerolineas Argentinas! FLORITA, L
113 Commavia: I must ask, though: what investor in their right mind (i.e., not motivated by some other populist or otherwise political calculations) would every po
114 Gonzalo: In this days, i have to agree with you, if i'm looking for a good business in a serious way, probably AR don't look so good, but the history ( not on
115 RJ_Delta: Actually no one. AR needs to be restructured in all aspect, specially without interference of the politics. AR could be attractive again but today al
116 EZEIZA: In Chivatos there are several 747's and old B732's and a F28 but I don't recall ever seeing a DC-9 ... ? Yes, LV-BOJ and LV-BNZ are still in Chivatos
117 RJ_Delta: I've heard CCS with B735 via VVI and BOG with A340s. Saludos,
118 CityofAthens: The news appears to have reached Europe .. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7518674.stm Nothing new in the above report, just a summary of what has
119 EZEIZA: mmm .. could be actually ... maybe I heard wrong Gracias! I still don't understand how they are going to have the 340's fly to BOG without affecting
120 RJ_Delta: Maybe they uses one of the A340 which arrives in the first hours of the day. I think that AR flight arrives in EZE before 5am. Saludos,
121 LH459: Fantastico! But seriously, don't cockroaches eat cables and such?
122 RJ_Delta: Could we return to the main theme of the topic? Thanks. I doubt that the situation of the video reflect the current problems of AerolÃneas.
123 Latinplane: I have recorded those AR-SEPI moments from back in 2001 on my VHS tapes, boy time flies! But even during the bleakest days of AR's life under SEPI ad
124 EZEIZA: I saw this on Sunday and took quick shot .. you can see the -ZTX with no engines and the two 320's just waiting there ... at least it seems someone is
125 DCAjet: Thanks - and every airline (yes, even LAN!!!) has its share of resident vermin.
126 RJ_Delta: Confirmed! The Marsans Chilean airline Air Comet Chile drops its first destination in Chile after the end of its participation in Aerolineas Argentina
127 Alianza: Gracias for the noticia Ricardo! Here we go...seems like it could be a house of cards, one destination falling at a time. Amazing that Marsans did no
128 RJ_Delta: Also Temuco would be dropped too. http://envivodesdescl.blogspot.com/2...comet-chile-suspende-temuco-y.html Saludos,
129 MD11junkie: Correct - if you build a non-self sufficient airline, you need to have insight on the interruption of cash flow, and it was VERY evident. Looks like
130 Victrola: So once again Aerolineas Argentinas is in the hands of the state. This is great news for everyone who works there. However it will become another burd
131 RJ_Delta: It's very uncertain but its the only option. According the lastest information the Goverment is injecting money to recover part of the fleet and pay
132 TBCITDG: I wonder as well whether they will finally fuse AR and AU? Seems that from the info that RJ posted Marsans will really need to sit down and analyze wh
133 Jfk777: Aerolinias Argentinas is like a Latin Alitalia, it exists to keep thousands of people employeed. The people of Argentina deserve better, they should h
134 DCAjet: Hmmm... spelling aside, do you have the faintest idea about the economic reality of Argentina, before you make such an uninformed statement like that
135 TBCITDG: Can any one inform me as to whether the government is a shareholder of AA200? And if so I am wondering whether this will have an influence for AR to m
136 Jfk777: My dear sir I have been to Argentina numerous tmes, I am well aware of economic situaton today, 5 years ago,10 , 20 30 and so on. Either AR is a subs
137 Arcano: Good question, is there any restriction or need that will make them separated airlines? LAN is not ment for social development in Chile, and I don't
138 MD11junkie: Really? Does H2 ring a bell? Aerolineas Argentinas/Austral as the main carrier are the only ones to operate to unprofitable destinations which are fa
139 DCAjet: Old school? Rather more practical, I think -while I am not familiar with the Chile map to know off the cuff where Talca and Los Angeles - south of Sa
140 DCAjet: A pretty sobering (if slightly irreverent) news report from America TV, a TV station in Buenos Aires. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbOGWzQlABE (in S
141 RJ_Delta: Chile has an Open Skies and liberal air policy with the least interference of the State. The role of the State is to be he guarantor of the aeronauti
142 MD11junkie: Let me correct that - it's El Salvador and not Los Angeles. I didn't say that, must have been a system glitch.
143 Arcano: El Salvador as town exists only for the mine over there. I don't think the state provides any money to H2 and formerly LA flying there. I don't have
144 RJ_Delta: Sky Airline has an agreement with Codelco (Corporacion del Cobre) to operates flight to/from El Salvador to carrier people to the mine. Until October
146 TBCITDG: Arcano: I can sense where you are coming from but one has to take into consideration the size of Argentina compared to the size of Chile. Now I don't
147 RJ_Delta: LAN started its operations as State company to serve and integrate the country, including small towns and village in the Patagonia as Palena, Futaleu
148 DCAjet: I think he was referring to 4M. And they do operate with subsidized JP1. Or will resort to agreements with the provinces - like you mention above. 4M
149 EZEIZA: I highly doubt it. I think they knew exactly what they were getting into and their strategy is probably to suffer a bit at first. Also, they had been
150 RJ_Delta: Well, considering the situation in the Argentinian market and the current international scenery of course that LAN as any company demands and enjoy a
151 Hardiwv: In Brazil we have on the front news that AR is treating pax like "garbage" while 6 AR flights to GRU and GIG were with long delays Sunday evening. htt
152 ATLTPA: " target=_blank>http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/folha/c...shtml I am not surprised by this. Over the weekend AR had many cancellations and delays on fli
153 RJ_Delta: Current AR/AU fleet situation taken from another forum (thanks to LVZXV and complement with addcional information): Aerolineas Argentinas 1 A310-300 (
154 ATLTPA: Thanks RJ_Delta! 43 out of 70 planes in the air between AR and AU. No wonder so many canceled and delayed flights-- like the ones the Brazilian trave
155 MD11junkie: A much more sincere and logical project for AR/AU: Opposition parties look to block official project, declare AR/AU in bankruptcy, start new National
156 Gonzalo: Hi Gastón. I don't want to go on politics, and probably i agree with you in general terms...but how many time this new project will be sleeping/figh
157 EZEIZA: On TV they just said that the govt' is looking into the possibility of having some LADE aircraft transferred to AR until they can get more planes in t
158 RJ_Delta: In other forum I read the same. If it's true the State would want to put addicional flights to reduce the delays caused by the overbooking. Saludos,
159 RJ_Delta: Bye the way Marsans Group announced that will keep its "order" (MOU until today) fro 61 Airbuses (A32S, A330s, A350 and A380) and will improve the Air
160 Alianza: You have got to be kidding!! Argentina should ban any aircraft of Marsans from entering their airspace, and any other business that benefits Gonzalos
161 RJ_Delta: No I'm not. Also today Ricardo Jaime Secretary of Transport of Argentina, announced that would introduced two wet leased aircrafts to resume the oper
162 Argentina: A B747 (coming from a charter airline) was wet leased to cover the 2 B744 in Maintenance.
163 EZEIZA: And according to this picture, here it is (posted on another forum)! Ugly if you ask me, but as long as it gets the job done, all is good. http://www
166 CityofAthens: My goodness, I never thought I'd see one of those planes somewhere other than sitting endlessly on the remote stands at ATH - oh well, they do fly!
167 RJ_Delta: Breaking news: Marsans go to the Justice in Argentina! Marsans Group was were reported today by the crimes of fraudulent administration and emptying,
168 EZEIZA: This is going to be a loooooong dispute. I'm not to sure of the govt' and how they will do with AR, but I don't mind to much watching Marsans fall (a
169 Argentina: The Hellenic Imperial 747 has got 450 seats in Economy and only 8 in Business. It means some downgrades to business passengers.
170 EZEIZA: By leasing this aircraft how are the conditions regarding IFE, catering, etc.? My question is because AR because of lack of payment had no IFE whatsoe
171 MD11junkie: The same, the only thing that's different is the aircraft and pilots. I suffered it on my SCL-EZE flight in May, we only had Diet Coke or Water. AFAI
172 EZEIZA: Gaton, at least it was only a short flight .. imagine going to SYD or MAD payinf full F fare with only Diet Coke and nothing to entertain you What ab
173 RJ_Delta: Any news about when AR will resume the IFE services? Saludos,
174 MD11junkie: AXF is out of service. Crashed by a vehicle on ramp. MAD has been canceled temporarily, only Hellenic's 742 is in service of the 747 fleet.
175 Abrelosojos: = You know, you keep on saying this, but the long term actions of LAN Chile demonstrate quite to the contrary. If I were a betting man, I would place
176 RJ_Delta: To be a flag carrier no. The idea to increase the domestic flight in Argentina, now when the scenery has been improved is to demostrate to the Govern
177 Abrelosojos: = Well, technically it can never be a "flag carrier" ... I mean, unless Chile takes over Argentina. However, I do think that the domestic flights are
178 ATLTPA: Bravo! Totally agree-- this company broke new ground. It must be fixed and rebuilt. The world has lost too many aviation pioneers (Pan Am, TWA, Brani
179 RJ_Delta: A Facade no, LAN (not LAN Chile) knows that in the short/medium term they couldn't replace Aerolineas Argentinas. LAN seeks to increase its participa
180 EZEIZA: Hopefully! btw, were the 320's originally going to be mainly used for domestic or intl' routes? " target=_blank>http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo.
181 Abrelosojos: = Oh come on. Its still LAN Chile. Dropping the Chile just ensures lesser screams against its ambitions. = There are no aircraft for a sustained inte
182 RJ_Delta: The current name of the company is LAN Airlines its the correct name to refer to the holding. Only that. At this moment the international xpansion is
183 Alianza: Ricardo, do you know if any value figures were mentioned- of the company or of the aircraft? Saludos
184 LipeGIG: Was seen today at GIG while flying AR133 EZE-GIG-MAD flight. The 742 can't fly EZE-MAD non-stop ?
185 Gonzalo: Hi Felipe...are you kidding right ?...I mean, of course the autonomy of the aircraft allows that, and i'm pretty sure you know that... now, if you as
186 EZEIZA: Yup, the 742 arrived veeery late here but I still managed to take a shot. Does anyone know why the stop at GIG? I had no idea it had stopped there ...
187 MD11junkie: Because it can't make it non-stop westbound. There wouldn't enough be spare fuel for a diversion if EZE was to be closed.
188 RJ_Delta: At this moment no. This is the first time that I read in a media the negotiation between the Argentina Government and Embraer (vÃa the Brazilian Sta
189 LipeGIG: I don't know the conditions of the flight as well as route conditions, so i can't say to you i'm aware about 742 capabilites for such route. But my m
190 MD11Engineer: For those who have been on A.net a bit longer, I wonder what is going to happen to 747Skipper then, though he might be well retired by now. Jan
191 PA101: From what I remember when working in Australia in 2005, the LAN and AR flights to South America were hot sellers with the large Brazilian community i
192 EZEIZA: Gaston, probably an ignorant question since I have no clue on tech specifics, but AR, IB and even A4 did the flight non-stop with 742's, so why not t
193 RJ_Delta: The reason to make a stop in the westbound route is because the strong head winds and how many payload carriers the aircraft in each flight. Although
194 EZEIZA: Gracias! Just another question though, the stop at GIG was not scheduled if I'm not mistaken, so does this mean that they take off from MAD without a
195 Abrelosojos: = Besides being a link home for the Brazilian community in Sydney, it also ferries a large number of young Brazilians going to learn English ... of c
196 Gonzalo: Hi Felipe, no problem, in any case Ricardo answer in a more informed way your question in post 193. My apologizes for make a question out of topic, b
197 RJ_Delta: If the EZE-MAD route was suspended, the wetleased B747-200 return to Greece or still operating for Aerolineas Argentinas? Saludos,
198 EZEIZA: The EZE-MAD is not suspended afaik Yesterday AR 1132 took off with a couple of hours of delay towards MAD (I think it was the Hellenic) and AR1135 la
199 RJ_Delta: OK. Thanks for the update. According with the last info, there is a couple of rumours that AR is looking 2 more A340-300 to add into the fleet and rep
200 Hardiwv: In the state visit of Brazil's President Lula to Argentina, Argetina's President Cristina Kirchner requested Lula to help revamping Aerolineas Argenti
201 MD11junkie: That is where Lockheed Martin is producing the IA-63, Pampa, the national jet. I think that would be dismantling even more our armed forces. Who is f
202 Stgs1988: Relatively positive news from the todays paper - Clarin.com. http://www.clarin.com/diario/2008/08/03/um/m-01729417.htm - Spanish only. "Not a single f
203 MillwallSean: I just went through some basic numbers regarding Aerolinas Argentinas and what I dont understand is how they can have so many persons employed? They w
204 PA101: Sorry that I don't know - but what city is Malargüe??? ARs webpage quotes AR 1692 to fly to Bariloche - is that just another name for the airport/ar
205 MD11junkie: LV-AXF and LV-BBU (744) both operative. LV-ALJ (744) and LV-ZRA (342) on ground. Hellenic's 742 is no longer in service for AR. Things are starting to
206 EZEIZA: Gastón, since when? Because it was spotted yesterday landing in MAD arriving from EZE. Was this the last fligth and it didn't make it back to EZE? F
207 MD11junkie: Equipment missing ordered, looks like they'll be up in a week or two.
208 Gonzalo: A couple of hours ago i read this article in the digital edition of El Mercurio (www.emol.com), sorry but i only have a link to the Spanish version. I
209 RJ_Delta: Another consequence after the exit of the Marsans Group from Aerolineas Argentinas: Air Comet (A7) will suspend its nonstop flights between Madrid and
210 Latinplane: That's absurd! Transnational government controlled airlines don't work. A great example: LatinPlane
211 Gonzalo: I Know !! Totally, TOTALLY agree with you, but you can expect the most bizarres ideas popping out from the minds of our "leaders", so to speak. Re-bu
212 Latinplane: A few countries in Latin America are very forward-looking, others are backward-looking. Please read this wonderful report from the BBC of what happen
213 Hardiwv: Here is more news about the discussion both Lula and Cristina had about finding a solution for AR involving EMBRAER: http://www.elpais.com/loultimo/ef
214 PA101: Brrr.... sounds horrible - especially with Chavez getting involved. I'm seeing a carrier, sponsored by Chavez' oil millions, serving Tehran, Damascus
215 LVICS: First of all, those numbers are not accurate. At least, according to our local government . Apart from that, why sould they pay any attention to such
216 MD11junkie: New schedules for long haul flights: 3x weekly CCS via VVIA - 737-500 3x weekly BOG - A340 (same plane turns around goes to MIA) 4x weekly FCO - A340
217 Gonzalo: Well, in fact, if you look some of the videos on Youtube using Aerolineas Argentinas as a search key, many of the videos are crowds of stranded passe
218 RJ_Delta: So CCS will switch to B735 via VVI. Until a couple of days AR was serving CCS using an A340 (according the information published in AR' website). Tha
219 ARGIEPILOT: What would those numbers be? I have another idea. Instead of starting firing people right away and putting many families out of work under what you c
220 RJ_Delta: The Argentinian State and Aerolineas must redefine its role in the aviation as soon is possible and then starts to build and develop a model of busine
221 EZEIZA: As everythimg the K's do. Always short term, save their faces and see how it works out. It-s been like that since Nestor became President. In some ca
222 TBCITDG: I would have to agree whole heartedly with RJ and EZE. The model that AR has been using as a business is obviously flawed. They need to develop and CH
223 RJ_Delta: The rumours indicates that in the short term the Argentinian State will go for: Aerolineas Argentinas: A320-200 A330-200 A340-200 A340-300 (try to fi
224 EZEIZA: And here's a problem ... Airbus, Boeing, MD's, ERJ's ... come on! Go all Airbus or all Boeing, or at least go for example all Airbus for long haul an
225 Alianza: If you have little funds available and major expenses, how would you keep your operation alive if you did not cut costs? Well, if there are very limi
226 TBCITDG: Don't airlines like QF for example though use different 'types' of aircraft to suit the market? A380, A330, 744, 737, Dash, ??? I think that the marke
227 RJ_Delta: Here is the last update of the Aerolineas / Austral fleet acording with the last modifications: http://elaereo.blogspot.com/2008/08/...flota-de-aeroln
228 Hardiwv: What is happening to the domestic network while AR grounds so many planes? Rgs,
229 Mfz: Can someone confirm the rumors that AR was/is to lease FK28 and B707 from LADE to cover the shortage of planes on domestic routes during the current g
230 MD11junkie: Rumors, but nothing confirmed. Almost bogus. There are plans to restore the fleet ASAP. There was a Hellenic Imperial Airways 747-200 wet-leased to c
231 Mfz: @MD11junkie Thanks a lot for your answers, I really appreciate your help! Best regards, Mike
232 MD11junkie: My pleasure, Mike. Â More news! Effective September 1st, 2008: CCS - operated 4x weekly with A340-300 (MoWeFrSu) BOG - operated 3x weekly via LIM wi
233 RJ_Delta: Thanks for the update. It would be interesting to know if the LV-ZRA will reenter into the service soon to cover the new route. Saludos,
234 Alianza: Looks like Marsans was planning to sell part of their ownership of AR...as per an article in the Buenos Aires Herald. http://www.buenosairesherald.com
235 Jfk777: Is this all the international out of South America AR has ? MIami ? JFK? CDG? FRA ? this is sad.
236 RJ_Delta: Current AR' International network: SCL 3 x day with B735 GRU 4 x day with B735 GIG 3 x day with B735 ASU 1 x day with B735 MVD 2 x day with B732 or B
237 LVICS: Sorry, those are not per day but per week.
238 RJ_Delta: Yes, my mistake. So the correct current AR onternational destinations are: SCL 3 x day with B735 GRU 4 x day with B735 GIG 3 x day with B735 ASU 1 x
239 Renton_WA: Found it interesting how Infobae.com used a picture of an Aerolineas Argentinas brand created by R P Abraham. http://www.infobae.com/notas/nota.php?Id
240 RJ_Delta: Yes it looks great. This is the best fictional livery for Aerolineas Argentina and I hope we can see AR wearing it. Considering the current the future
241 LipeGIG: Allow me a correction, you forgot EZE-POA 9x weekly service Felipe
242 RCS763AV: This is sad. AR dug their grave with their crappy service and constant delays here in Colombia. Now it will be impossible to find a seat on AV. I hop
243 EZEIZA: " target=_blank>http://www.infobae.com/notas/nota.ph...ion=0 How is it possible that a supposidly serious news site shows a photo of a nonexistant li
244 Alianza: Talks are continuing with Embraer to open factory in Argentina. But, an interesting question is that, if this happened, how are they thinking it could
245 Alianza: Looks like there is overwhelming support for AR to be nationalized again- Lower House votes 167-79 for renationalization, now Senate’s turn "Gov’
246 RJ_Delta: Today the State is the only opportunity to save AerolÃneas Argentinas and Austral. However although the Government of Cristina Fernández de Kirchne
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