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AC Officially Cancels A340-600  
User currently offlineManu From Canada, joined Dec 2004, 406 posts, RR: 7
Posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 13232 times:

According to Flight Global, Air Canada has finally canceled its orders for A340-600's deliverable after 2010.

"During the post-2001 air transport crisis, Air Canada initially deferred delivery of the A340-600s to 2004 and subsequently reached an agreement with Airbus under which it would defer them again until 2010."

From http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...ls-outstanding-a340-600-order.html

Some speculate this was in the works all along, even here. Does anyone know what type of penalty an airline pays for canceling like this? I beleive the 777's are successful and what was meant to replace these birds. Given fuel costs, is the 777 ultimately the better choice?

32 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDrgmobile From Canada, joined Aug 2006, 637 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 13208 times:

I am surprised it didn't happen earlier. The company already had announced it was consolidating the widebody fleet on the 777-787 a couple of years ago. Milton always preferred the 777 anyway (according to his book).

User currently offlineCRJ900 From Norway, joined Jun 2004, 2180 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 13064 times:
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Perhaps AC was safeguarding some slots in case something was to happen to the B777s, so that would at least make some new aircraft available quicker...?


Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
User currently offlineBeechNut From Canada, joined Apr 2004, 725 posts, RR: 10
Reply 3, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 12441 times:

My guess is that it was protracted negotiations on the terms of the cancellation (penalties, etc).

I wonder if a few more A321s might be part of the terms, AC was looking for some a while back as 767 replacements on transcons, then they apparently stopped looking.

Beech


User currently offlinePnwtraveler From Canada, joined Jun 2007, 2235 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 12231 times:

This also came up on the thread about the Airbus orders for June. I think it was negotiations. I wouldn't be surprized also if AC was protecting their slot while shopping the aircraft themselves. They probably bought the aircraft at rates much below what the price of the aircraft is now for a new order. The slowdown may have impacted the value of the slots and/or demand for the aircraft.

User currently offlineCodyKDiamond From Canada, joined Nov 2006, 537 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 11999 times:

What s/n's were they allocated?

User currently offlineYWG747 From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 251 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 10008 times:

This doesn't surprise me in the least.
Especially after AC announced more layoffs yesterday.
They are probably looking at trying to make thoer fleet common across the board.
This is a good way to start.


User currently offlineManu From Canada, joined Dec 2004, 406 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 9850 times:



Quoting Pnwtraveler (Reply 4):
They probably bought the aircraft at rates much below what the price of the aircraft is now for a new order. The slowdown may have impacted the value of the slots and/or demand for the aircraft.

That's a very good point. Have other airlines done that before? Or rather, do we know it if it has happened?


User currently offlineKelual From Spain, joined Jul 2008, 79 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 9419 times:

Will IBeria get those slots?

User currently offlineDrgmobile From Canada, joined Aug 2006, 637 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 9087 times:

My guess is that it was protracted negotiations on the terms of the cancellation (penalties, etc).

I wonder if a few more A321s might be part of the terms, AC was looking for some a while back as 767 replacements on transcons, then they apparently stopped looking.


I think you've hit the nail on the head. We all have known for the past three years that AC was never going to take those A340s.


User currently offlineJAL From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 5085 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 8824 times:

This is not surprising news considering they are cocentrating on the 777 and 787 for their wide-body fleet.


Work Hard But Play Harder
User currently offlineMIgAiR54 From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 1702 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 8773 times:

everybody knew that they wont take delivery of this aircraft. they decide to swap to boeing for long hauls.

Quoting BeechNut (Reply 3):
I wonder if a few more A321s might be part of the terms, AC was looking for some a while back as 767 replacements on transcons, then they apparently stopped looking.

Of course they stop looking, A321 for 767 replacements on transcons???, never ever. Both aircraft are completely different.

A-321 has 3.000NM range so they can barely fly Toronto Dublin (2900NM).

A-330 or B-787 are the only options for B-767 replacement on transcons.

Quoting Kelual (Reply 8):
Will IBeria get those slots?

I am sure that they would love to get them but IB is not the only airline interested. It will be hard to secure them.


User currently offlineDrgmobile From Canada, joined Aug 2006, 637 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 8454 times:

A-330 or B-787 are the only options for B-767 replacement on transcons.

Transcontinental means across the continent (ie Toronto to Vancouver), not across the Atlantic.


User currently offlineMIgAiR54 From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 1702 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 8302 times:



Quoting Drgmobile (Reply 12):
Transcontinental means across the continent (ie Toronto to Vancouver), not across the Atlantic.

Sorry, my mistake............  Confused

I still think the difference is too big between both planes. But in this case an increase in freq could be better than a bigger plane.


User currently offlineYULYMX From Canada, joined May 2006, 977 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 7845 times:

A321 can barely make YUL-YVR in Winter... Winds coming strong from the west... they do it but it is tight... A320, A319, B737 much better for that route...

US aire barely make it happens with the 321 PHL-SFO/LAX west bond...

According to AC website the A321 have a range of 4,350 km (2,300 miles)

[Edited 2008-07-10 07:22:33]

User currently offlineBeechNut From Canada, joined Apr 2004, 725 posts, RR: 10
Reply 15, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 7811 times:



Quoting MIgAiR54 (Reply 13):
I still think the difference is too big between both planes. But in this case an increase in freq could be better than a bigger plane.

The difference won't be so big as the 767s to be replaced are mostly the elderly 200 series.

In AC config:

767: seats 207, range 3335 s.m.
A321: seats 174, range 2300 s.m. (roughly YUL-YVR nonstop).

In these days of high fuel prices, the newer more efficient plane might be a good downgauge to weather the storm.

Beech


User currently offlineBrons2 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3013 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 7709 times:



Quoting YULYMX (Reply 14):
A321 can barely make YUL-YVR in Winter... Winds coming strong from the west... they do it but it is tight... A320, A319, B737 much better for that route...

757 would be a better replacement for a 2300nm transcon mission that requires 200 seats. Unfortunately as we all know they aren't made anymore  Sad



Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7062 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 6528 times:

Too bad would have loved to see an A346 in AC colors but it was not to happen. The A343 and A345 were really the best looking aircraft in AC livery.
Any idea if AC and Airbus had come to a new agreement probably one to be announced in Farnborough ?
New A32x would be nice, A350s even nicer  Smile



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineEA772LR From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2836 posts, RR: 10
Reply 18, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 6448 times:

I was surprised that it took so long. It would have been great to see a 340-600 in the new AC livery...Oh well, I can settle for the 77W  yes 


We often judge others by their actions, but ourselves by our intentions.
User currently offlineBeechNut From Canada, joined Apr 2004, 725 posts, RR: 10
Reply 19, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 6311 times:

A350: forget about it. AC will be strictly Boeing for widebodies for the foreseeable future.

More A32x. Always a possibility. Many early ones are now around 18 years old. Also replace 767-200s with some more as mentioned above. However the A32x are being chopped off at the bottom by Embraers. The 321 is a bit tight for transcons; unless available now with higher range, however they would work well on Rapidair, mid-continent, Caribbean flights.

Beech


User currently offlineDUALRATED From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1001 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 6156 times:

Another airline going all twin.  cool 


AIRLINERS.NET MODERATORS SUCK MOOSE DICK!!!!
User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7062 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 6087 times:



Quoting DUALRATED (Reply 20):
Another airline going all twin.   

Yes, things will get boring in the future  Sad

Quoting BeechNut (Reply 19):
. However the A32x are being chopped off at the bottom by Embraers. The 321 is a bit tight for transcons; unless available now with higher range, however they would work well on Rapidair, mid-continent, Caribbean flights.

EJets really are a threat for the AC A319s but A320s and A321s are likely.
AC has some very old A320s that could be replaced. The A320 can do transcons and the A321 shorter high density routes.



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineEA772LR From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2836 posts, RR: 10
Reply 22, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 5977 times:



Quoting Columba (Reply 21):
Quoting DUALRATED (Reply 20):
Another airline going all twin.

Yes, things will get boring in the future Sad

Boring I agree, but when it comes down to be profitable and efficient, there's no debating the benefits of operating big twins vs. big quads for anything less than VLAs.



We often judge others by their actions, but ourselves by our intentions.
User currently offlineDUALRATED From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1001 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 5945 times:



Quoting Columba (Reply 21):
Yes, things will get boring in the future

No not boring....BOEING Big grin



AIRLINERS.NET MODERATORS SUCK MOOSE DICK!!!!
User currently offlineDrgmobile From Canada, joined Aug 2006, 637 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 5833 times:

AC has some very old A320s that could be replaced. The A320 can do transcons and the A321 shorter high density routes.

AC currently is using its A321s between Vancouver/Calgary and Ottawa, Montreal and Toronto (YVR-YYZ being a really mixed bag). It's on a handful of Rapidair YYZ-YUL flights.


25 Pnwtraveler : The core of the YYZ to YVR business is based on frequency with flights nearly every hour or so. They have 320's on that route for some flights. So to
26 Columba : Isn' t that the same Just kidding, Boeing made fantastic looking aircraft 707,727,747 also can not say that the A320 is an aircraft that looks exciti
27 MrBrightSide : Yawn. YABT. B787 is a good one, but B777 is boring and loud. Sitting next to engines in J makes a good challenge for my noise-cancellation headphones
28 DUALRATED : Oh that was a nice retort And I know what you ment by boring. It looks like it will be a twin engine future. With fuel prices the way they are it's n
29 Viscount724 : With AC's recently announced 7% capacity reduction in response to fuel prices, they don't need any more aircraft. A321 does not have enough range for
30 EA772LR : Hey you guys are pretty clever
31 Columba : Well that was the obvious response
32 Post contains links 9252fly : Looking back to 2003 and the five year fleet plan that somehow found it's way in media,it's interesting to see where AC is now. Granted,I don't think
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