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Frontier Gets Huge Break From FDC  
User currently offlineAzstar From United States of America, joined May 2005, 623 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 9937 times:

According to the Denver Business Journal, Frontier has reached an agreement with First Data Corporation to receive 100% of credit card sales funds, immediately, in exchange for liens on some ground equipment. This increases Frontier's liquidity enormously. Good news.

67 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineATAflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 79 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 9789 times:

Good News!
I am certainly pulling for Frontier, and booked my stepbrother on a flight for him to visit me in August...TUS-IND. All the fine Frontier Folks needed some good news for a change.



A better way to fly
User currently offlineKingCavalier From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 1311 posts, RR: 18
Reply 2, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 9780 times:

This is certainly good news. Mariner posted the link in a couple other threads -

Here's some = very surprising and very helpful - support, from First Data, the CCP whose demands provoked the Chapter 11 filing:

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/new...l-with-first-data-helps-frontiers/

RMN: "Frontier Airlines will boost its cash reserves by an undisclosed amount through an amended agreement with its credit-card processor, giving the carrier more breathing room as it navigates through Chapter 11 bankruptcy."

Who'd have thought it?

mariner



Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness
User currently offlineSxf24 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1262 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 9709 times:

I don't think this is as good as news as everyone thinks it is. The increase in liquidity is a one-time event (since after the release of accrued funds, it will just change the timing of future payments) and limited in scope.

Credit Card Processors sometimes take liens in lieu of hold backs, but typically prefer the immediate liquidity hold backs provide. First Data would have made the decision based on two vastly different factors: 1) F9's operating position has significantly recovered and FDC is assured the hold backs are no longer needed or 2) Due to a decline in forward bookings, the value of the hold backs has declined and FDC has seen that without the additional liquidity, F9 would cease operations, resulting in immediate loses for FDC.

All data points to the fact that 1) is unlikely. F9 continues to burn through cash at a fair descent pace and remains in bankruptcy protection, which fundamentally reduces FDC's contractual rights.

Situation 2) is more likely since the ground equipment is of significantly higher value than the average hold backs. Plus, it puts both companies in a better position (F9 in the short-term, FDC in the long-term). Who knows, FDC could come out with a profit if the secured assets are liquidated!


User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7373 posts, RR: 14
Reply 4, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 9628 times:

Quoting Sxf24 (Reply 3):
I don't think this is as good as news as everyone thinks it is.

If I was a creditor I'd be angry since this means the company will now be able to lose a lot more money before running out, but as an employee it means your job will last quite a while longer so it depends upon your perspective.

I'm going to revise my cash estimate to $115 million after this infusion plus the Airbus refund. I would still expect the company to be over $4 million cash negative per week from August 15th to November 15. That means they are likely to bleed $48 million over that period and will probably have insufficient cash to continue by November 15 unless they find another source of money.

EDIT
This isn't as cash positive as I thought after reading the article.

Huebner said the agreement provides the company with a "funding holiday" related to the amount of collateral First Data collects on Frontier's Visa and MasterCard receipts.
...
Under the revised deal, First Data will temporarily give Frontier 100 percent of the credit- card receipts it handles. First Data's collateral balance, therefore, will remain stagnant for that period, and Frontier's cash reserves will grow.


So, first it is only temporary which is odd. That implies they need the cash to bridge to some other positive event (what?). Second, it states that First Data will not release their existing cash reserve, merely not allow it to build further. Thus, if it is a 30 or more days of relief it should be worth $30 million in cash reserve, but the $30 million will disappear as soon as the "temporary" relief period ends because Frontier would have gotten the money anyway at the time of departure.

[Edited 2008-07-10 06:28:01]

User currently offlineIADCA From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 1319 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 9616 times:



Quoting Sxf24 (Reply 3):
First Data would have made the decision based on two vastly different factors: 1) F9's operating position has significantly recovered and FDC is assured the hold backs are no longer needed or 2) Due to a decline in forward bookings, the value of the hold backs has declined and FDC has seen that without the additional liquidity, F9 would cease operations, resulting in immediate loses for FDC.

More likely is 3) FDC realizes that if the company goes under, being a secured creditor is much, much better than being unsecured, even if the collateral doesn't quite cover the debt.

Quoting Sxf24 (Reply 3):
Who knows, FDC could come out with a profit if the secured assets are liquidated!

All proceeds in excess of the amount of the debt secured would have to go back into the pot to satisfy other debts.


User currently offlinePetteri From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 281 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 9581 times:

I find this quite to be the most interesting statement in the article:

Quote:
"This agreement, which is fair to both sides, is very helpful for Frontier's liquidity," said Marshall S. Huebner, lead counsel for the company. "This is yet another important step towards liquidity and stability. We're focused on several liquidity initiatives, and we're knocking them out one at a time."

This isn't Frontier's only source for more liquidity. I expect more deals be announced.

This seems to be the approach that the management team takes. One thing at a time, get it done right the first time and then move on.



The above comments are my personal comments and in no way should be viewed as the views,policy or statements of JetBlue
User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7373 posts, RR: 14
Reply 7, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 9498 times:



Quoting Petteri (Reply 6):

This isn't Frontier's only source for more liquidity. I expect more deals be announced.

He might be referring to the Airbus PDP refund of $7.5 million and the aircraft sales. It is also rumored they are shopping Lynx for sale.


User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7373 posts, RR: 14
Reply 8, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 9309 times:

I read the docket filing on the CCP. The CCP lien will supersede any future DIP agreement.

The impact of that is interesting in that it means they have almost given up getting DIP financing. Clearly they are already having trouble obtaining DIP financing, but now they have taken one of their major unencumbered assets and told any potential DIP partner that it is off the table as DIP security. By definition, that makes the company less attractive as a DIP customer and the company probably pursued this option because they do not believe DIP will be secured.


User currently offlineAloha717200 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4516 posts, RR: 15
Reply 9, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 9185 times:

To me it almost looks like a form of DIP financing though with FDC taking over several liens. But I agree that this probably means that F9 won't be finding DIP in the future, and honestly I didn't expect them to considering that right now investing in an airline probably isn't the soundest financial decision in today's market.

It sounds like F9 has several more of these cards up their sleeve, but I hope this is the light at the end of the tunnel for them.


User currently offlineAirFrnt From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2826 posts, RR: 42
Reply 10, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 8783 times:



Quoting Azstar (Thread starter):
According to the Denver Business Journal, Frontier has reached an agreement with First Data Corporation to receive 100% of credit card sales funds, immediately, in exchange for liens on some ground equipment. This increases Frontier's liquidity enormously. Good news.

It's enormous good news. Bottom line is given the shape of the airline industry, FDC will have trouble moving assets if they inherit a huge credit card liability. FDC has realized that it's in their benefit to help F9 survive. Hence, they are. Given that they started this whole proccess out, and got a huge black eye in Denver because of it, it's good news all around.

As Enilria points out, this actually doe

Quoting Enilria (Reply 4):
If I was a creditor I'd be angry since this means the company will now be able to lose a lot more money before running out, but as an employee it means your job will last quite a while longer so it depends upon your perspective.

But being Enilria, I suspect you are just disappointed that someone doesn't think that F9 is as doomed as you think they are.


User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7373 posts, RR: 14
Reply 11, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 8760 times:



Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 10):
But being Enilria, I suspect you are just disappointed that someone doesn't think that F9 is as doomed as you think they are.

As I've said before I want Frontier to survive. I think the management team got them into this mess through bad decisions and I don't think they are capable of extricating F9. That being said, I do believe that absent a massive oil drop the outlook is bleak. That doesn't mean I want them to die.

I laid out in detail how management put the company in this position a couple of threads ago. Nobody even argued it.


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25426 posts, RR: 86
Reply 12, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 8498 times:
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Quoting Enilria (Reply 11):
I laid out in detail how management put the company in this position a couple of threads ago. Nobody even argued it.

I don't know which thread you mean, there are so many, but I have surely argued with some of your positions.

But just because someone doesn't respond to your speculations doesn't mean they agree with them.

For me, it becomes a pointless exercise.

mariner

[Edited 2008-07-10 13:38:02]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7373 posts, RR: 14
Reply 13, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 8448 times:

Though I hate to distract everybody from bashing me, here is the news of the day...

The judge approved the First Data order which could provide Frontier temporarily with as much as $30 million in additional cash over the next month. The "temporary agreement" has no end date, but the cash would ebb away upon the temporary agreement's suspension when the passengers completed their flights.

There is a stipulation in the order that says : "Frontier shall not grant a new lien on any Frontier aircraft without the written consent of First Data". I thought that was odd since the CCP deal is secured by GSE and not aircraft.


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25426 posts, RR: 86
Reply 14, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 8417 times:
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Quoting Enilria (Reply 13):
Though I hate to distract everybody from bashing me

It isn't "bashing" you. It is simply pointing out the essential paradox in your position:

Quoting Enilria (Reply 11):
As I've said before I want Frontier to survive. I think the management team got them into this mess through bad decisions and I don't think they are capable of extricating F9.

A number of the decisions were taken by the previous management, and so if you believe them to be destructively inept - why do you want the airline to survive?

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6793 posts, RR: 32
Reply 15, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 8326 times:



Quoting Enilria (Reply 13):
the cash would ebb away upon the temporary agreement's suspension when the passengers completed their flights.

I saw this as being a bit problematic as well, given that forward bookings will begin to decline (the natural seasonal variation) after the end of July. The net effect, however, is likely that the total amount of cash being held back by First Data will decline somewhat; I'd guess that the lien on assets is in lieu of actual restricted cash as part of the holdback.

Quoting Aloha717200 (Reply 9):
To me it almost looks like a form of DIP financing though with FDC taking over several liens. But I agree that this probably means that F9 won't be finding DIP in the future

That was my take on the matter as well; First Data is freeing up some cash for Frontier in exchange for some sort of surety. The flip side, of course, is that DIP loans are typically accorded superpriority status in a bankruptcy estate, and since the First Data liens would supersede even a DIP loan, there will remain fewer assets available with which to secure DIP financing. DIP loans aren't typically extended without there being some sort of collateral to back them.


User currently offlineAloha717200 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4516 posts, RR: 15
Reply 16, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 8007 times:

Another interesting thing is the timing of this move. With the summer travel season being upon us, Frontier can build up cash a lot faster now than they could if this agreement had been reached sometime in the fall.

So even if this agreement comes to an end in the fall it might be possible that Frontier's cash reserves might allow them to hold on well past September. That gives time for this oil bubble to perhaps burst, for political action to reign in oil costs, or at the very least, for the higher costs of summer oil to decline as we head into the fall.

Either way, they've bought some very crucial time.


User currently offlineF9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 5079 posts, RR: 29
Reply 17, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 7532 times:



Quoting Enilria (Reply 11):
As I've said before I want Frontier to survive. I think the management team got them into this mess through bad decisions and I don't think they are capable of extricating F9. That being said, I do believe that absent a massive oil drop the outlook is bleak. That doesn't mean I want them to die.

I laid out in detail how management put the company in this position a couple of threads ago. Nobody even argued it.

I suppose management can be blamed for these fuel prices too? The only thing hurting F9 right now is fuel, just like everyone else out there.



I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7373 posts, RR: 14
Reply 18, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 7462 times:



Quoting Mariner (Reply 14):
A number of the decisions were taken by the previous management, and so if you believe them to be destructively inept - why do you want the airline to survive?

I don't see the logic linking the opinion that the management is inept with me wanting them to die. Most people think UA's management is inept, but few want them to die.

Quoting ScottB (Reply 15):
The net effect, however, is likely that the total amount of cash being held back by First Data will decline somewhat

True, but since the agreement is classified as temporary, I'm not clear why they need to temporarily boost their cash. It's a bridge to what, DIP?

Quoting ScottB (Reply 15):
The flip side, of course, is that DIP loans are typically accorded superpriority status in a bankruptcy estate, and since the First Data liens would supersede even a DIP loan, there will remain fewer assets available with which to secure DIP financing.

I made that point in another thread. It really is a lot like a DIP deal and essentially takes the place of one. They now need to become cash positive before cash falls to a point where FirstData suspends the temporary agreement and forces a bad outcome.

Quoting Aloha717200 (Reply 16):
With the summer travel season being upon us, Frontier can build up cash a lot faster now than they could if this agreement had been reached sometime in the fall.

I think they are only about $1.5 to 2.0 million cash negative per week right now based upon my personal estimates. If I am correct that they previously were at a 100% holdback this would boost their cash to as much as $115-120 million over the next month less $8 million from losses so about $110-115 million by the end of July. If they were not at 100% holdback already then the benefit is smaller and it might only put them back around $100 million. I already figured in the Airbus PDP refund.

I estimate from 8/15 to 11/15 they will be about $4-5 million cash negative per week which means they would have about $50 million by November 15. I don't think they can operate on much less than $50 million. Between now and then they need oil to go down substantially.


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25426 posts, RR: 86
Reply 19, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 7328 times:
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Quoting Enilria (Reply 18):
I don't see the logic linking the opinion that the management is inept with me wanting them to die.

Because what is the point? Even if they do survive it will be with - in your opinion - woeful management.

So - why? If they are so badly run, why not just let them die?

Moreover, I think you should make up your mind as to whether Southwest is determined to kill Frontier or Frontier management is committing suicide.

If it is the former, if Southwest is determined to kill Frontier, then, with their remarkable resources, nothing will stop them.

But if it is bad management at Frontier, Southwest doesn't need to do a thing.

However, if you really do want Frontier to survive, then you should be pretty pleased with one management decision.

Sam Addoms is a seminal figure at Frontier, Effectively, he created the airline and guided it through at least one crisis as profound as the present one.

Now I am told - I have no linkable source - that he has been coaxed out of retirement to actively assist management at this time.

It represents an important bridge between old management and new, however small. This can only be, to me, good news, however minor.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineSxf24 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1262 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 7227 times:



Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 10):
FDC will have trouble moving assets if they inherit a huge credit card liability.

Huh?

FDC has either 100% holdback or collateral to sell if F9 ceases operation. Any liability they have is fully offset by an asset.


User currently offlineRedFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4364 posts, RR: 28
Reply 21, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 7111 times:



Quoting F9Animal (Reply 17):
I suppose management can be blamed for these fuel prices too? The only thing hurting F9 right now is fuel, just like everyone else out there.

No disrespect intended towards you, F9Animal (I like reading your posts), or Frontier (I like flying on them), but this airline couldn't make money when oil was in the ~$50 bbl range. While the current price of oil is definitely a huge problem for them as it is everyone else, it is more than oil that has caused them to bleed for the past few years, which has only compounded their current woes. I don't know what the solution is. All I'm doing is pointing out a peculiarity, which is that when other carriers were profitable 2 and 3 years ago, F9 had a very hard time squeezing out a profit.

Personally, I do think Sean Menke is the right man for the job, but unfortunately for him I don't think the timing has proven right. I stated on here last summer when Potter announced his departure that it was about time and that he was being forced out (to the chagrin of others that claimed he was leaving under good terms). Unfortunately, it appears his departure wasn't soon enough. Someone like Menke should've been brought in long ago. It may be too late now. Or, it may not be too late. Time and the price of oil will eventually tell.



My other home is a Piper Cherokee 180C
User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7373 posts, RR: 14
Reply 22, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 6405 times:



Quoting Mariner (Reply 19):
Moreover, I think you should make up your mind as to whether Southwest is determined to kill Frontier or Frontier management is committing suicide.

I've said this time after time and you always comment I repeat myself, but I guess you have missed it. Here is the short version. Pre-Menke the strategy was to diversify away from Southwest. Most of it failed, but they said int'l succeeded and they kept growing it. When Menke came in he seemed to adopt a new strategy which was to refocus everything back to Denver for what I like to call "Custer's Last Stand". The stock dropped faster than others because that wrecked their Wall Street credibility and, best of all, WN saw a concentrated F9 was easier to attack and launched a massive blitz just as oil started jumping. Menke dismissed a lot of the management, but the loss of a strong CFO was the final straw and that led First Data to pull the plug. I know, you don't agree with any of it, but IMHO they adopted a "Custer's Last Stand" strategy and it killed them. So the management and WN are intertwined. Maybe the int'l stuff was always unprofitable and Menke only reversed Potter's bad decisions, but the effect is the same regardless.

Quoting Mariner (Reply 19):
Now I am told - I have no linkable source - that he has been coaxed out of retirement to actively assist management at this time.

That can only be good, but the hole is deep.


User currently offlineF9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 5079 posts, RR: 29
Reply 23, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 6285 times:



Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 21):
No disrespect intended towards you, F9Animal (I like reading your posts), or Frontier (I like flying on them), but this airline couldn't make money when oil was in the ~$50 bbl range.

Thanks for the nice words!

Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 21):
Personally, I do think Sean Menke is the right man for the job, but unfortunately for him I don't think the timing has proven right.

You are very right about that. If oil was in the $50-$70 range, Menke certainly has alligned F9 to make some handsome profits. The only way to make profits for anyone right now (except WN of course), is to charge an arm and a leg for it. I really wonder if regualation of this industry is needed?



I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25426 posts, RR: 86
Reply 24, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5970 times:
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Quoting Enilria (Reply 22):
I've said this time after time and you always comment I repeat myself, but I guess you have missed it.

Obviously, I haven't missed it. I simply think your interpretation of what happened is wrong.

But I've said it all before, so I'm not sure what the point of your present restatement of it is.

Quoting Enilria (Reply 22):
and Menke only reversed Potter's bad decisions, but the effect is the same regardless.

If that is the case, I don't understand why do you not give Mr. Menke credit for it, rather than hurtling to find the most negative interpretation of everything he has done.

And I don't understand why you keep saying you want Frontier to survive, when, according to you, the management is destructively inept.

mariner



aeternum nauta
25 N7371f : And this was/is a problem because? Frontier beats WN on nearly all routes head-to-head. RASM, Yield, Load Factor, Passengers, etc...With the exceptio
26 Sxf24 : What should F9's management (Menke or others) get credit for? Keeping the doors open another day? Survive the destructively inept management perhaps?
27 Mariner : Read the quote and the reply. mariner
28 NwaLAS : First Data....drives them into bankruptcy and then helps them out. That makes a lot of sense. NwaLAS
29 Aloha717200 : If the international routes were making money, why would he want the depature of the person who championed those routes? If you look at a route map o
30 Sxf24 : I take that as "nothing."
31 Enilria : By the way, isn't it kind of dirty pool to resort to quoting half a sentence in order to change the meaning of what I said? I don't think I've done t
32 RedFlyer : I don't want to get in the middle of this, just to correct the above. Tate announced his departure long before he actually left and FD pulled the plu
33 Enilria : Paul Tate, the company's Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer since September 2001, will resign, effective March 21 Certainly your op
34 Brons2 : Would F9 be in a better position today if they handn't gone out and bought all those shiny new Airbuses? Seems kind of similar to what Sabena did, go
35 RedFlyer : Okay, for some reason I thought he had left on March 11, not 21. However, Tate's departure was announced on their 8-K filing of February 19, over a m
36 N7371f : I think this is the most concrete argument. Fact is, we'll never know. But if you go back and read many of the comments immediately after Frontier's
37 Enilria : Their fuel bill would be a lot higher. I don't think that hurt them. I think it would be hard to make that argument. If Tate was "hand holding" them
38 RedFlyer : I can't disagree with what you're saying. Of course, there definitely could have been a connection. But there were a lot of things going on at the sa
39 Mariner : Only if it changes the meaning. Add in the full sentence: And it doesn't change what I said. Why don't you give him credit for that, rather than your
40 Enilria : So leaving the other sleeping dogs to lie, it is your opinion that Mr. Tate's departure had no impact on the timing of First Data's move...or are you
41 Mariner : "No" impact? I can't say. I think it is unlikely, but anything is possible. I think - stress "I think" - the First Data action was driven by many cir
42 Aloha717200 : Forgive me for interrupting the discussion, but I'm just curious, what was wrong with Mr. Happ or for that matter the other management that departed?
43 F9Animal : F9 had the orders submitted before 9/11. In fact, they already had more than half of the fleet transitioned by then. They moved forward with their re
44 Mariner : From my perspective as a shareholder, Mr. Happ guided Frontier to some of the greater mistakes, such as LAX-SFO, the disastrous MEM and such Mexican
45 PlanesNTrains : I've seen plenty of people who are great with the employees and customers, but who can't run a business or take it to the next level. So to me, his l
46 Aloha717200 : Thank you for the in-depth answer, Mariner. It is good to have someone so knowledgeable about the internal mechanics of this airline on the board, eve
47 AirFrnt : They are going to have trouble selling A319's and A318s in the market as it is today.
48 Enilria : They now need First Data's approval to do so, so perhaps they have given up on that.
49 Sxf24 : No disrespect to any poster, but Mariner does not have any knowledge about the internal mechanics of Frontier Airlines.
50 Mariner : Not so much these days, because he moved to New Zealand and two of his key sources at Frontier left. mariner
51 LAXintl : Having read the order related to the FDC agreement three things stick out. 1) FDC waiver merely covers a 3 month period until the end of September. 2)
52 Enilria : I take it that the two people who left weren't dismissed by Menke (since you have such positive vibes) so they must not have been too high up? I miss
53 Mariner : I wouldn't make that assumption. And define "dismissed". Mr. Happ was not "dismissed" by Mr. Menke. mariner
54 PlanesNTrains : Which worked how well??? It sounds like Mexico had it's good and it's bad, but elsewhere, they failed miserably. Do you have that magic bullet that w
55 Sxf24 : I wasn't the one who started gushing over the overly optimistic views. Besides, there's a difference between having a genuine interest in understandi
56 Enilria : Nobody is ever officially "fired" at that level because there are egos to protect so I used the word dismissed meaning they were no longer welcome. M
57 PlanesNTrains : Well, his point was that you said something to the effect of "And even if Menke was only reversing Potters bad decisions...". Well, if he reversed ba
58 Mariner : I can only go by the words you use. I don't make any assumptions. And I can think of one person who was still welcome - but who resigned anyway. mari
59 Brons2 : I don't know...WN does fine with a large fleet of 733's. A critical look at the Airbus purchase at F9 would require more information than I have. If
60 LAXintl : More then one airline has succumbed to events following refleeting. Shiny new planes might have lots of benefits, however the debt load associated wit
61 PlanesNTrains : One might call the changes that they are implementing in BK "good news". One might call the agreement with FDC "good news". One might call the change
62 PlanesNTrains : I would agree, but there are two sides to that story. There are the carriers that failed while refleeting, and there are the carriers that have, for
63 Mariner : You keep saying that and I keep disagreeing. Contrary to the general opinion, several Wall Street analysts are very well informed, and not by the air
64 Post contains links RedFlyer : I find this comment of yours very interesting. It was just one year ago, right after Potter announced his departure, that you were defending him. I q
65 Mariner : I stand by all that I said. (i) I don't think he was looking for the job. And I still think he didn't know what to do at Frontier - for the future. (
66 Enilria : International Then I have been posting good news because I posted at least 1/2 of those stories. As we are both allowed to do. Sam must feel pretty i
67 Mariner : "irked"? Well, maybe. I'm not sure it is the word I would use, but that may be the difference between us, because he has been here before. During Mr.
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Frontier Gets Approval For Denver-Acapulco posted Mon Sep 12 2005 06:01:27 by Juventus
US Airways Gets $125 Mil From Republic/Chautauqua posted Tue Mar 15 2005 03:02:55 by A330323X
CO Gets Pay Reductions From Its Employees posted Mon Feb 28 2005 22:20:29 by Cory6188
MCI Gets Widebody Service From AA! posted Mon Feb 28 2005 21:26:13 by MCI777