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KLM/NWA To Close Transatlantic Routes?  
User currently offlineTripple7 From Netherlands, joined Aug 1999, 539 posts, RR: 0
Posted (15 years 1 month 23 hours ago) and read 1540 times:

Hi,

Just heard a rumour that KLM and NWA are going to cut back on transatlantic routes due to the fierce competition on this market.

I heard they are going to drop the Amsterdam Philadelpia and Oslo Minneapolis route this fall.
I was just wondering if there are any more routes dropped.

14 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12468 posts, RR: 37
Reply 1, posted (15 years 1 month 22 hours ago) and read 1399 times:

I think MSP-OSL is already confirmed. Don't know about the other.
The decision does beg the question as to whether it is just a lack of demand on the route, or whether potential customers find out it's NW on the route (with a 20 year old DC10) and find another way there. NW really needs to get itself a decent fleet and do something about its passenger service.



User currently offlineCX747 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4454 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (15 years 1 month 22 hours ago) and read 1388 times:

The passenger worrying about the 20 year old aircraft would not hold true to KLM. They operate new 747-400s, 767-300s and MD-11s.


"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
User currently offlineJohnboy From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 2592 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (15 years 1 month 20 hours ago) and read 1372 times:

If I remember correctly, the Minneapolis-Oslo flights were not making any money, even though they were fairly full! What a strange world!

User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12468 posts, RR: 37
Reply 4, posted (15 years 1 month 19 hours ago) and read 1365 times:

True, CX747, but the two routes being axed are NW operated (DC10s).

As for the profitability of the route, that's not too unusual, particularly on routes which would be predominantly tourist rather than business driven. Many people in Minnesota are of Scandinavian descent*, so the majority of people on the route would be tourists, possibly visiting relatives in Norway.

*
( indeed, you will find many NW people have Scandinavian names! - Soderlind, the name of a very famous NW pilot, is one that comes to mind)


User currently offlineNWA Man From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1828 posts, RR: 12
Reply 5, posted (15 years 1 month 16 hours ago) and read 1356 times:

The PHL-AMS route is being dumped (confirmed on NWA.com) because there is not enough people who want to fly this route! It is not because the fleet is shabby or the service is bad! US Airways also dropped their PHL-AMS service because it couldn't cut it a few months ago. And that is for a hub airline.

Second, the MSP-OSL route is being dropped because it is only a seasonal route. NW doesn't figure American tourists would want to fly to Oslo in the winter, with its frigid weather.

Lastly, in response to Kaitak, NW has a fine fleet and is updating it. Correct me if I am wrong, but Northwest has the largest fleet of (new) Airbuses in the United States, which is only going to grow, because of the orders for 30 more 320s and 70 A319s. Plus, they took delivery of 5 new 744s and have more 757s on order.

Just my 0.02.
NWA Man



Create your own luck.
User currently offlineThe777Man From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 6568 posts, RR: 55
Reply 6, posted (15 years 1 month 7 hours ago) and read 1341 times:

Hi NWA ManI actually have to correct you because you are wrong. United Airlines has the largest narrowbody Airbus fleet in the US (81) versus NW (72 at most). UA will eventually have 48 A319s and 85 A320s after all currently on order are delivered. UA may even order more of these. NW will eventually have 50 A319s and 70 A320s. UA 133 === NW 120 The777Man


Need a Boeing 777 Firing Order....Further to fly....CI, MU, LX and LH 777s
User currently offlinePetrouchka From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 109 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (15 years 1 month 4 hours ago) and read 1334 times:

I'm afraid I have to disagree, Kaitak. I'm a consumer (passenger) not a personnel of any airline, and I have to say that the DC-10s are the nicest planes I've flown in. And both Northwest AND Continental still use a bunch of DC-10s, and keep them (from a passenger's perspective) in very good condition. Now, I'm not completely naive: I know some of what goes on "behind the scenes" as it were, but the DC-10 is still far more comfortable than the newer 757-200. Cramming 200+ people on a plane with ONE AISLE?!? What sub-genius thought up that idea?! (Forgive me, I recently was stuck on a 757 from MSP to SFO.)


Kaitak wrote:
-------------------------------
I think MSP-OSL is already confirmed. Don't know about the other.
The decision does beg the question as to whether it is just a lack of demand on the route, or whether potential customers find out it's NW on the route (with a 20 year old DC10) and find another way there. NW really needs to get itself a decent fleet and do something about its passenger service.



User currently offlineFsimmer From Norway, joined Jun 1999, 108 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (15 years 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1333 times:

I think there is too good connections between small norwgian cities and Amsterdam to run a OSL-MSP route. Today cities like Sandefjord, Kristiansand, Stavanger, Bergen and Oslo is connected to Amsterdam with a minimum of 3 flights a day from Sandefjord and Kristiansand and 5 flights a day from Stavanger and Bergen. I think most people living in other cities than Oslo prefer AMS as connection point much before OSL. And I would never go on a old Dc10, when I could connect in AMS and fly on 744 instead... I live in Stavanger, and difference in flight time between SVG-OSL and SVG-AMS is 20minutes only.


fsimmer
User currently offlineNWA Man From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1828 posts, RR: 12
Reply 9, posted (15 years 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1326 times:

Actually, its Northwest 150, United 133. Don't believe me? Check out
http://news.airwise.com/stories/99/06/929640191.html
Sorry, I don't know how to put in the direct link.

NWA Man



Create your own luck.
User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12468 posts, RR: 37
Reply 10, posted (15 years 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1323 times:

Sorry NWA man, I didn't mean to cast a slur over the whole of the Northwest fleet. I am well aware that it has some very modern aircraft - 744s, 757s, Airbuses, but its transatlantic fleet and many trunk routes are still flown by elderly DC10s; even the Swissair -30s are not in the full flush of youth. It would want to think about replacing some of the 747-200s as well . . .
See "new topic" above.


User currently offlineThe777Man From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 6568 posts, RR: 55
Reply 11, posted (15 years 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1326 times:

Hi NWA MAN!!I guess I'm wrong and you are right. I went by what's in JP Airline Fleets and I guess I missed the increased orders from NW. I do hope NW will get some 777s to replace their 742s. Nice to see that NW finally getting some more 744s.Take Care!!The777Man


Need a Boeing 777 Firing Order....Further to fly....CI, MU, LX and LH 777s
User currently offlineAsdf From Austria, joined Mar 2014, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (15 years 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1314 times:

Since it was mentioned, here's my opinion about Northwest's fleet.

I'll be happy to see those DC-9's go. I'd much rather fly in those new Airbuses. I'm dying to see, let alone fly the A319's. Keep the DC-10's for a little longer- they've been in surprisingly good condition.



User currently offlineA32 From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 163 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (15 years 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 1299 times:

Just a general response to no one in particular.

Yes it is true that PHL-AMS and MSP-OSL will be history in october however it was not because of loads. The OSL flight was cancelled because the proposed codeshare tie up with Brathens was delayed indefinitely by the EU. Without the critical feed for the route the margins were very low. If Brathens is approved the route will resurface.
PHL-AMS was nixed because of the close proximity of that market to EWR and JFK. With a dumping of trans atlantic capacity from these 2 airports once again the margins are too low. For a long time the mantra at NWA appears to be that if a threshold yield is not achievable then get out of the market.
Regarding fleets...love the new interiors of the dc9, prefer the a320 seats, dc10 are getting the interior mods and are a welcome relief from flying single aisle aircraft across the pond...besides they are quieter than the boeings. And finally the youngest dc10 at NWA is a year younger than some md11's


User currently offlineLH423 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 6501 posts, RR: 54
Reply 14, posted (15 years 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 1296 times:

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting to see NWA in 777 colours any time soon. For a reason beyond me NWA has a long standing order for 16 A330-300s. I would like to know why they have had these orders for many a year now, but USAirways is now to be the North American launch customer for the 330, with Air Canada following shortly behind? Why do they keep delaying? For more obvious reasons TWA keeps delaying their order for 10 A330-300s.


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