Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 26639 posts, RR: 22
Reply 1, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 9711 times:
Can't find any photos of that aircraft. The closest I can come is N797PA (Clipper Northwind), the 707-321C delivered just prior to N798PA.
It crashed on a charter flight near Agadir, Morocco in 1975 shortly after Pan Am sold it to Royal Jordanian Airlines, killing all 188 aboard. I think that still ranks as the worst-ever 707 accident.
Coincidentally, N799PA (Clipper Racer) which was delivered the same month as N798PA crashed just 6 months after N798PA, on December 26, 1968,while taking off from Elmendorf Air Force Base near ANC (weather diversion from ANC) after a fuel stop on a cargo flight from SFO to Vietnam. The 3 crew were killed.
1968 wasn't a good year for Pan Am. Just two weeks before the freighter crash in Alaska, on December 12, 1968 they lost a 707-321B. It crashed into the ocean at night approaching CCS on a flight from JFK, killing all 51 aboard.
Although only 2 PA 747 hull losses with fatalities, they wrote off 4 747s. Two were non-fatal, including a landing overrun at KHI in 1983 and the very first 747 hull loss (which doesn't appear in your link above), the one blown up at CAI in September 1970 (after passengers had been released) as part of the Black September terrorist hijackings which also resulted in the loss of a TWA 707, Swissair DC-8 and BOAC VC-10 which were blown up after being hijacked to a closed airstrip in Jordan.
PA also had two fatal 747 incidents that did not result in loss of the aircraft, including a terrorist hijacking where gunfire and grenades thrown on a parked 747 at KHI in 1983 killed close to 20 (reports vary from 16 to 20). Another terrorist bomb under a seat exploded on a NRT-HNL flight in 1982, killing one passeger and doing a fair amount of damage but the aircraft landed safely at HNL. Both those aircraft were repaired and remained in service. This is the one involved in the KHI incident five years later.
JohnClipper From Hong Kong, joined Aug 2005, 860 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 8995 times:
Don't forget that PA was a trailblazer throughout the world in the 1960s. They suffered a lot paving the way for other airlines into inhospitable parts of the world. Flying into Papeete or Bali is not like landing at Des Moines or Houston.
MEA-707 From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4427 posts, RR: 34
Reply 12, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 8984 times:
Quoting JohnClipper (Reply 11): Don't forget that PA was a trailblazer throughout the world in the 1960s. They suffered a lot paving the way for other airlines into inhospitable parts of the world. Flying into Papeete or Bali is not like landing at Des Moines or Houston.
They got away with all their crashes with this redenation, like "don't forgot how big they are so it's more likely to crash now and then, compared to Luxair." But most airlines even in those days, say Qantas, Air New Zealand, TWA, KLM, Lufthansa, Northwest Orient, BOAC, were able to fly to the same sort of destinations safely. Also the loss rates of the above mentioned airlines and American (although with no overseas flights indeed less risky) prove it should be possible to operate a fleet of 120 Boeing 707s and "only" have 2 or 3 fatal crashes, it was not an unreliable aircraft. Pan Am in the early 1970s clearly had an issue with adventurous and careless pilots on their pacific routes. Possibly drinking much and sleeping little on their stayovers in exotic places. They wouldn't get away with this amount of crashes nowadays with internet and worldwide news coverage and investigations.
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
727LOVER From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 6809 posts, RR: 20
Reply 13, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 8943 times:
Quoting NorthStarDC4M (Reply 6): Glad i wasn't flying PAA in 73/74, yeesh. Though it should be stated that Bali was the last PAA 707 lost... they only had 2 747s and a 727 fatal accidents until they went bust.
Make that 2 727. I assume you were referring to New Orleans in 1982. Don't forget the 727 they lost in Germany in 1966. I even did a thread on it years ago:
PA515 From New Zealand, joined Nov 2007, 1003 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 8880 times:
Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 12): Pan Am in the early 1970s clearly had an issue with adventurous and careless pilots on their pacific routes.
Regarding the Pago Pago crash in January 1974, a flight that commenced in AKL. There is a book 'Wilful Misconduct: an untold story" by William Norris. It was not so much adventurous pilots, but pilots who had failed competency tests being passed as suitable. Unbelievable. These were pilots other crew avoided flying with. After Pago Pago there was an internal Pan Am report but it was supressed by the judge hearing the case for compensation by relatives.
Regarding the Papeete Crash in July 1973, which also commenced in AKL. The station engineer told my father he believed the pilot stalled the aircraft on takeoff. The Flight Data Recorder was not recovered due to the ocean depth even though close to the airport. The aviation-safety.net destination of HNL is incorrect. The flight was PPT-LAX nonstop.
My father took early retirement in 1980, saying it was not the same company anymore.