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Help On Picture Of Pan Am B707  
User currently offlineVimanav From India, joined Jul 2003, 1516 posts, RR: 14
Posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 9113 times:

Dear Friends

I was wondering if anybody would have a picture of Pan Am's Boeing 707-321C, "Clipper Caribbean", N798PA. The aircraft had crashed on 12/13JUN1968 in Calcutta.

Many thanks in advance for your assistance.

brgds//Vimanav


Sarfaroshi kii tamannaa ab hamaare dil mein hai, Dekhnaa hai zor kitnaa baazu-e-qaatil mein hai
15 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25170 posts, RR: 22
Reply 1, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 8980 times:

Can't find any photos of that aircraft. The closest I can come is N797PA (Clipper Northwind), the 707-321C delivered just prior to N798PA.



It crashed on a charter flight near Agadir, Morocco in 1975 shortly after Pan Am sold it to Royal Jordanian Airlines, killing all 188 aboard. I think that still ranks as the worst-ever 707 accident.

Coincidentally, N799PA (Clipper Racer) which was delivered the same month as N798PA crashed just 6 months after N798PA, on December 26, 1968,while taking off from Elmendorf Air Force Base near ANC (weather diversion from ANC) after a fuel stop on a cargo flight from SFO to Vietnam. The 3 crew were killed.

1968 wasn't a good year for Pan Am. Just two weeks before the freighter crash in Alaska, on December 12, 1968 they lost a 707-321B. It crashed into the ocean at night approaching CCS on a flight from JFK, killing all 51 aboard.


User currently offlineVimanav From India, joined Jul 2003, 1516 posts, RR: 14
Reply 2, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 8821 times:

Thank you Viscount724 for the information. Would you by any chance have the dates of first flight and delivery of N798PA?

Thanks and rgds//Vimanav



Sarfaroshi kii tamannaa ab hamaare dil mein hai, Dekhnaa hai zor kitnaa baazu-e-qaatil mein hai
User currently offlineFlymad From South Africa, joined Jun 2006, 207 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 8747 times:



Quoting Vimanav (Thread starter):
"Clipper Caribbean",

Not a very happy name for PA. N88831 Lockheed 1049 with the same name crashed at Shannon in 1946!


User currently offline727LOVER From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 6422 posts, RR: 17
Reply 4, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 8592 times:

OK, I'm confused

How many 707 crashes did PA have?

Elkton, Maryland
Papeete
Somoa
Caracas
Antigua?



Listen Betty, don't start up with your 'White Zone' s*** again.
User currently onlineMSYtristar From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 6562 posts, RR: 51
Reply 5, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 8589 times:



Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 4):
How many 707 crashes did PA have?

Elkton, Maryland
Papeete
Somoa
Caracas
Antigua?

They also lost a 707-321B in Bali in the early 70's.


User currently offlineNorthStarDC4M From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 3012 posts, RR: 37
Reply 6, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 8568 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
CHAT OPERATOR

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 4):
How many 707 crashes did PA have?

They had Eleven! fatal 707 crashes:

Elkton, Maryland, USA, 1963
Montserrat, French Antillies, 1965
Caracas, Venezuela, 1968
Calcutta, India, 1968
Alaska, 1968 (Cargo)
Manila, Phillipines, 1970
Papeete, Tahiti, 1973
Boston, Mass., USA, 1973 (cargo)
Rome, Italy, 1973
Pago Pago, American Samoa, 1974
Bali, Indonesia, 1974


Glad i wasn't flying PAA in 73/74, yeesh. Though it should be stated that Bali was the last PAA 707 lost... they only had 2 747s and a 727 fatal accidents until they went bust.

Source: http://www.panamair.org/accidents/accidents.htm

[Edited 2008-07-13 10:33:42]


Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25170 posts, RR: 22
Reply 7, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 8563 times:



Quoting Vimanav (Reply 2):
Thank you Viscount724 for the information. Would you by any chance have the dates of first flight and delivery of N798PA?

Don't have the first flight date but it was delivered December 3, 1964.

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 4):
OK, I'm confused

How many 707 crashes did PA have?

Elkton, Maryland
Papeete
Somoa
Caracas
Antigua?

Pan Am wrote off 12 707s in accidents, including one terrorist bombing at FCO. All except one (a landing overrun into the water at JFK) involved fatalities.
http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19631208-0
http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19640407-0
http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19650917-0
http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19680612-2
http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19681212-0
http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19681226-2
http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19710725-0
http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19730722-0
http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19731103-1
http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19731217-3
http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19740130-0
http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19740422-0


User currently offlineL1011buff From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 115 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 8511 times:

I just searched my Aiwways spec. ed. of PAN AM celebrating 45 yrs of jet service, and no luck, sorry!

User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25170 posts, RR: 22
Reply 9, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 8468 times:



Quoting NorthStarDC4M (Reply 6):
Though it should be stated that Bali was the last PAA 707 lost... they only had 2 747s and a 727 fatal accidents until they went bust.

Source: http://www.panamair.org/accidents/ac...s.htm

Although only 2 PA 747 hull losses with fatalities, they wrote off 4 747s. Two were non-fatal, including a landing overrun at KHI in 1983 and the very first 747 hull loss (which doesn't appear in your link above), the one blown up at CAI in September 1970 (after passengers had been released) as part of the Black September terrorist hijackings which also resulted in the loss of a TWA 707, Swissair DC-8 and BOAC VC-10 which were blown up after being hijacked to a closed airstrip in Jordan.

PA also had two fatal 747 incidents that did not result in loss of the aircraft, including a terrorist hijacking where gunfire and grenades thrown on a parked 747 at KHI in 1983 killed close to 20 (reports vary from 16 to 20). Another terrorist bomb under a seat exploded on a NRT-HNL flight in 1982, killing one passeger and doing a fair amount of damage but the aircraft landed safely at HNL. Both those aircraft were repaired and remained in service. This is the one involved in the KHI incident five years later.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © John Allan



And the one in the NRT-HNL incident three years later.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Burger Collection



User currently offlineArgonaut From UK - Scotland, joined Dec 2004, 422 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 8440 times:



Quoting Vimanav (Reply 2):
by any chance have the dates of first flight and delivery of N798PA?

N798PA, model 321C, msn 18790
Rolled out 22 October 1964 at Renton
First flight 23 November 1964
Delivered 3 December 1964 (as mentioned by Viscount724)

This was the aircraft that inaugurated Pan Am round-the-world cargo service, 10 July 1965, from/to San Francisco.

(source: Hurturk Individual Aircraft History of the Boeing 707 (BUCHAir, 1998)

May I ask: Do you have a connection with this accident?

Regards.



'the rank is but the guinea stamp'
User currently offlineJohnClipper From Hong Kong, joined Aug 2005, 844 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 8264 times:

Don't forget that PA was a trailblazer throughout the world in the 1960s. They suffered a lot paving the way for other airlines into inhospitable parts of the world. Flying into Papeete or Bali is not like landing at Des Moines or Houston.

User currently onlineMEA-707 From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4320 posts, RR: 36
Reply 12, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 8253 times:



Quoting JohnClipper (Reply 11):
Don't forget that PA was a trailblazer throughout the world in the 1960s. They suffered a lot paving the way for other airlines into inhospitable parts of the world. Flying into Papeete or Bali is not like landing at Des Moines or Houston.

They got away with all their crashes with this redenation, like "don't forgot how big they are so it's more likely to crash now and then, compared to Luxair." But most airlines even in those days, say Qantas, Air New Zealand, TWA, KLM, Lufthansa, Northwest Orient, BOAC, were able to fly to the same sort of destinations safely. Also the loss rates of the above mentioned airlines and American (although with no overseas flights indeed less risky) prove it should be possible to operate a fleet of 120 Boeing 707s and "only" have 2 or 3 fatal crashes, it was not an unreliable aircraft. Pan Am in the early 1970s clearly had an issue with adventurous and careless pilots on their pacific routes. Possibly drinking much and sleeping little on their stayovers in exotic places. They wouldn't get away with this amount of crashes nowadays with internet and worldwide news coverage and investigations.



nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
User currently offline727LOVER From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 6422 posts, RR: 17
Reply 13, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 8212 times:



Quoting NorthStarDC4M (Reply 6):
Glad i wasn't flying PAA in 73/74, yeesh. Though it should be stated that Bali was the last PAA 707 lost... they only had 2 747s and a 727 fatal accidents until they went bust.

Make that 2 727. I assume you were referring to New Orleans in 1982. Don't forget the 727 they lost in Germany in 1966. I even did a thread on it years ago:

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo.../general_aviation/read.main/813389



Listen Betty, don't start up with your 'White Zone' s*** again.
User currently offlinePA515 From New Zealand, joined Nov 2007, 877 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 8149 times:

Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 12):
Pan Am in the early 1970s clearly had an issue with adventurous and careless pilots on their pacific routes.

Regarding the Pago Pago crash in January 1974, a flight that commenced in AKL. There is a book 'Wilful Misconduct: an untold story" by William Norris. It was not so much adventurous pilots, but pilots who had failed competency tests being passed as suitable. Unbelievable. These were pilots other crew avoided flying with. After Pago Pago there was an internal Pan Am report but it was supressed by the judge hearing the case for compensation by relatives.

Regarding the Papeete Crash in July 1973, which also commenced in AKL. The station engineer told my father he believed the pilot stalled the aircraft on takeoff. The Flight Data Recorder was not recovered due to the ocean depth even though close to the airport. The aviation-safety.net destination of HNL is incorrect. The flight was PPT-LAX nonstop.

My father took early retirement in 1980, saying it was not the same company anymore.

PA515

[Edited 2008-07-14 05:43:07]

[Edited 2008-07-14 05:45:09]

User currently offlineA999 From Norway, joined Mar 2004, 231 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 7989 times:

N798PA was the 9th in a row of 10 707-321CFs with the first delivered 27 Feb.-64.

The complete line-up:
18714 N790PA Courser
18715 N791PA Fidelity
18716 N792PA Good Hope
18717 N793PA Messenger
18718 N794PA Undaunted
18765 N795PA Jupiter Rex
18766 N796PA Mermaid
18767 N797PA Northwind
18790 N798PA Caribbean
18824 N799PA Racer

Regards
Erik


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