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Run Out Of Fuel In Nice?  
User currently offlineAnsett767 From Australia, joined May 1999, 1021 posts, RR: 2
Posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 6172 times:

Was waiting for my bus tonight at Nice airport and 2 pilots (british accents) but I dont think BA crew? were waiting outside T1 for their crew bus.

I overheard one on a mobile saying there is no fuel here in Nice and they have to fly tomorrow via Lyon to get some?

Is there a strike? Is it gonna affect all flights or just privates? Anyone know where these pilots could have been from. ? thanks!

18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineCorey07850 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2528 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 6066 times:

It's typical this time of the year, here's an advisory we got:

Dear Operations,

Just a reminder that LFMN are expecting fuel shortages, and fuel
depletion
problems early this week end (probably no fuel at all on Sunday 13th).
Handlers are expecting this to be one of the worst weekend of the year
regarding the fuel situation.

Please encourage operators to tanker fuel when possible and avoid LFMN
as a
fuel stop.

As well as:

All,

If I may, I'd just like to let you all know the situation. ** is
absolutely correct in what has already been said, there are going to be
more shortages this coming weekend. Due to the location of the fuel farm
at Nice airport, (ie, too close to residential premises) the fuel farm
can only ever be approximately half full. This means that during the
busy season (summer) they inevitably run low on stocks. We do have a
secondary supplier at Nice and have thus far been able to switch to them
when required in order to obtain product. These problems will, if it is
anything like the previous 2 summers, last for the next 6-8 weeks
specifically at weekends.

If we end up running out of fuel at Nice completely we will of course
let you know.


User currently offlineStylo777 From Germany, joined Feb 2006, 3009 posts, RR: 11
Reply 2, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 5974 times:

so this means all mainline airlines will have more fuel onboard than normal ops?

User currently offlineAnsett767 From Australia, joined May 1999, 1021 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 5734 times:

Wow interesting. Thanks  Smile

User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10925 posts, RR: 37
Reply 4, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 5608 times:

I live sort of nearby. I have not heard anything about it... This is the very first time I hear of such a thing about NCE airport. Hmmmm.... rather interesting!! How could they run out of fuel in the height of the Summer season?
A friend is flying to Luton tomorrow via EasyJet. I hope they will have fuelled up the aircraft to go back to the UK.

Quoting Ansett767 (Thread starter):
I overheard one on a mobile saying there is no fuel here in Nice and they have to fly tomorrow via Lyon to get some?

Is there a strike? Is it gonna affect all flights or just privates? Anyone know where these pilots could have been from. ? thanks!




There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineOOer From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1488 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 5550 times:

Has anyone heard if any of the DL flights to JFK have been effected by this yet???

User currently offlineBabybus From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 5475 times:

Hey, this is the most interesting thing I've read all month, anywhere. Who would have thought a major airport would have fuel supply problems?

It must be difficult for the crew to explain to pax that they need to land in Lyon to refuel.


User currently offlineDispatchguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1249 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 5454 times:



Quoting Babybus (Reply 6):
It must be difficult for the crew to explain to pax that they need to land in Lyon to refuel.

That can also happen if you have fuel quality or contamination problems.

Quoting Corey07850 (Reply 1):
Due to the location of the fuel farm at Nice airport, (ie, too close to residential premises) the fuel farm can only ever be approximately half full.

That is just plain old stupid. If the fuel farm decides to become a fire pit, what difference would it make (other than just not filling specific tanks), versus quarter full, half full, or full?



Nobody screws you better than an airline job!
User currently offlineSPR773 From India, joined Jun 2008, 163 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 5344 times:

Nice is a nice city to get stranded without fuel if it courtesy of the airline company  Big grin ...

User currently offlineAnsett767 From Australia, joined May 1999, 1021 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 5280 times:



Quoting Babybus (Reply 6):
It must be difficult for the crew to explain to pax that they need to land in Lyon to refuel

HAHA

Nice has a LOT of private jets. I am guessing that the two pilots came from there as they were not waiting with any flight attendants for the transfer bus outside (e.g. BA crews). Does anyone know which aircraft/airlines this shortage effects?

Quoting SPR773 (Reply 8):
Nice is a nice city to get stranded without fuel if it courtesy of the airline company ...

Indeed it is, I am very lucky to be living here  Smile


User currently offlineNcelhr From Vatican City, joined Jul 2006, 359 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 5103 times:

So it has finally hit them...

I wonder what the local paper Nice Matin will do.

This is a very long standing dispute lasting many many years. Let me explain.

The fuel depot at NCE airport was built around 30 years ago. Traffic was then a fraction of what it is today. Every summer, peak season, reserves are very low. It's primarily caused by the fact that NCE airport receives its fuel from a depot in Le Muy, in the neighbouring département. The transfer goes by road. Yes, you've heard me, in the summertime, dozens of tankers drive back and forth between Le Muy & LFMN.

This year, it is the 14th July week-end. Lots of airline traffic, but also lots of tourist traffic on the highway between LFMN & Le Muy. Furthermore, trucks are not allowed to drive on sundays to reduce the risk of horrific accidents with dozens of casualties. Add to this an early arrival of more and more business jets including the families from the Gulf who fly in with their private 767, 777, 747, A340, etc. and you run the risk of running out of fuel.

Years ago, the oil companies went round this storage shortage by parking a dozen tankers at LFMN and using them as fuel storage. However, they did not get a license to do so. It was deemed unsafe to have to much fuel onsite with no retention basins & emergency measures drawn up. The justice department has taken the matter into their own hands and the fuel companies + Nice Airport and its licensee, the Chamber of Commerce of Nice) all ended up in the accused box.
The result is that no additional tankers are parked in NCE.

So what's the answer? Well, there is a huge, and I mean huge, project that is ready to go ahead, with new fuel storage on the sea side (ie. the other side of the runways), and a long jetty into the sea that will allow for fuel delivery directly from the sea. It is pretty much all ready to go. However, the Chamber of Commerce does not want to pay for it since it believes that it is the responsibility of the fuel companies. The fuel companies say they are not ready to pay for something which will be required just a few times a year. They ask that if they can park additional trucks in LFMN and/or have special authorization to drive any day of the week, day or night, they can continue the way they are going.

You decide who's right and who's wrong. It's pretty obvious, and until sh*t hits the fan, just like it seems to be heading to, the status quo will remain.

Good luck to all pilots having to fly in with full tanks.

Reference about the scandal:
http://sansure.over-blog.com/article-6761903.html (sorry in French only)


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21562 posts, RR: 59
Reply 11, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 5042 times:



Quoting Ncelhr (Reply 10):
So what's the answer? Well, there is a huge, and I mean huge, project that is ready to go ahead, with new fuel storage on the sea side (ie. the other side of the runways), and a long jetty into the sea that will allow for fuel delivery directly from the sea.

That's what I was going to ask about, considering NCE is a seaside airport. But do they really need all that infrastructure? Can't they dock the ship, and fill up tanker trucks which would then drive across the airport and fill the depot? KISS and all that?



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineWESTERN737800 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 693 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 5026 times:



Quoting Ncelhr (Reply 10):
However, the Chamber of Commerce does not want to pay for it since it believes that it is the responsibility of the fuel companies. The fuel companies say they are not ready to pay for something which will be required just a few times a year. They ask that if they can park additional trucks in LFMN and/or have special authorization to drive any day of the week, day or night, they can continue the way they are going.

They should do a joint venture. I'm sure NCE is very found of their airlines. The airlines bring in tourists and bussiness people who spend money there & contribute to the economy. Same goes for the bussiness jet side. There are lots of airports out there big and small that should have twice the fuel storage that they do.



Bring back Western Airlines!
User currently offlineNcelhr From Vatican City, joined Jul 2006, 359 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 4954 times:



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 11):
That's what I was going to ask about, considering NCE is a seaside airport. But do they really need all that infrastructure? Can't they dock the ship, and fill up tanker trucks which would then drive across the airport and fill the depot? KISS and all that?

The current location of the fuel depot is too close to the terminals to pass new safety regulations. Furthermore, you'd still need a tank on the seaside to unload the ships. You can't just unload from ship to road tanker directly. Third, the terrain being what it is (it goes deep very quickly), it is impossible build an actual dock. The solution is a floating buoy about a mile away. In any case, they're throwing the ball at each other as to who will pay for it.

Quoting WESTERN737800 (Reply 12):
They should do a joint venture. I'm sure NCE is very found of their airlines. The airlines bring in tourists and bussiness people who spend money there & contribute to the economy. Same goes for the bussiness jet side. There are lots of airports out there big and small that should have twice the fuel storage that they do.

Yep, and that's exactly what the Chamber of Commerce & Nice airport authorities are saying. But this is France. Nobody has the power to force any other organisation to do anything. Everything is total anarchy. Oil companies are not helping. For them, it is just another airport...
Nice airport already has a number of investments it needs to go ahead with ASAP:

- building of new multi-storey parking lot for staff + pax where the old radar site used to be
- widening of taxiways in a couple of locations & of both runways for A380
- building of double level A380 bridge in T1 & T2
- building of multi-storey parking lot for car rental companies (this is actually the first thing that will go ahead since the current facilities are incredibly crowded in the summer and NCE has become the busiest car rental location in France). A partnership with a building group has been signed.
- building of multi-modal transfer point with train/road/airport where the current "MIN" market is located, along with underground transfer from T1 to T2.

The list is endless and everything seems to become urgent whilst actually going ahead with a project always hits bureaucracy, paperwork, opposition from NIMBYs & the like... And in addition to that, it all costs $$$, so where do you draw the line?

And just to top the line wrt fuel supplies, a number of people were recently arrested for diverting kerosene destined for LFMN to a gas station, mixing it with Diesel oil and making a hefty profit on this. Only on the Côte d'Azur....  Smile


User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10925 posts, RR: 37
Reply 14, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4882 times:

Thank you for explaining, Ncelhr. I never knew the situation was so complicated.

Just wait, maybe the newly elected Mayor of Nice Mr Estrozy, who is apparently one of Sarkozy's best friends, will make miracles.  laughing 

I cannot think what it will be like when Emirates will bring their A380s into the airport. They will probably start it in 2009 for the Grand Prix, Cannes film festival and the next Summer season. I am also thinking of the Sheik with his own private A380. I am sure we will be seeing him too.

Chances are that it will be a giant mess.

Quoting Ncelhr (Reply 13):
And just to top the line wrt fuel supplies, a number of people were recently arrested for diverting kerosene destined for LFMN to a gas station, mixing it with Diesel oil and making a hefty profit on this. Only on the Côte d'Azur....




There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21562 posts, RR: 59
Reply 15, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4873 times:



Quoting Ncelhr (Reply 13):
mixing it with Diesel oil and making a hefty profit on this

The 2008 version of anti-freeze in the wine…  Wink



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineGoldorak From France, joined Sep 2006, 1857 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3697 times:



Quoting Ncelhr (Reply 13):
But this is France. Nobody has the power to force any other organisation to do anything. Everything is total anarchy.

 Confused  banghead  you should travel a little bit more over th world to know what is "total anarchy". This certainly does not apply to NCE


User currently offlineAnsett767 From Australia, joined May 1999, 1021 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 2883 times:



Quoting Goldorak (Reply 16):
you should travel a little bit more over th world to know what is "total anarchy". This certainly does not apply to NCE

HAHA he is kinda right about it though. While I think its an overexaggeration, it is a highly complex country and all the beaurocracy I have had to go through living here as an outsider was a nightmare!  Smile

NCELHR thanks for the interesting insights! Very complicated indeed and explains what they were talking about over the phone.


User currently offlineRunway23 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Jan 2005, 2216 posts, RR: 35
Reply 18, posted (6 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 2855 times:



Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 14):
Just wait, maybe the newly elected Mayor of Nice Mr Estrozy, who is apparently one of Sarkozy's best friends, will make miracles.

Have you ever looked at his track record? The changes he has made to the region have already been 100x more than all his predecessor's combined. If anyone will manage to change something at the airport it is him. Obviously he cannot do everything as you are bound by things such as law and budget.


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