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United Only Gets 291 F/A's To Take Early-Out  
User currently offlineJamake1 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1005 posts, RR: 2
Posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 6204 times:

Today United announced the number of F/A's who will be taking an early-out from the company effective August 1, 2008. Out of the 600 slots for early-out being offered, only 291 F/A's accepted the offer. Not too surprising considering the offer contained pass privileges and some small change relative to years of service. Certainly nowhere near the 600 the company was hoping for. I think F/A furloughs will be forthcoming...


United's B747-400. "She's a a cruel lover."
38 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineEWRCabincrew From United States of America, joined May 2006, 5523 posts, RR: 56
Reply 1, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 6119 times:



Quoting Jamake1 (Thread starter):
I think F/A furloughs will be forthcoming...

Yep and we await these numbers too.



You can't cure stupid
User currently offline9252fly From Canada, joined Sep 2005, 1391 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 6064 times:

Considering that the amount of eligible applicants must have been high,I too am a little surprised to see so few takers. I can only think that the explanation is relative to the employment opportunities that lay outside the company,which is very unfortunate as it would have been an otherwise fair enough offer. Salaries for flight attendants at UA must be quite good for so many to want to stay in a job that I find fails to be appealing as a career choice today.

User currently onlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8468 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 5999 times:



Quoting 9252fly (Reply 2):
Salaries for flight attendants at UA must be quite good for so many to want to stay in a job that I find fails to be appealing as a career choice today.

Exactly, this is a sign that UA F/As are very happy with their current work rules and pay package.


User currently offlinePlanefxr From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 443 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 5984 times:



Quoting Flighty (Reply 3):
Exactly, this is a sign that UA F/As are very happy with their current work rules and pay package.

Or that they lost their retirement during BK, and they can not afford to take the package.


User currently offlineADXMatt From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 950 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 5949 times:



Quoting Planefxr (Reply 4):
Quoting Flighty (Reply 3):
Exactly, this is a sign that UA F/As are very happy with their current work rules and pay package.

Or that they lost their retirement during BK, and they can not afford to take the package.

 bigthumbsup 

Why would the company want to do the right thing and offer a decent package?

Is it really cheaper to furlough the bottom 300+ making little to no money VS getting the TOP 300 who are at the TOP of the payscale? Even with a nice incentive the company would be better off with a decent package in the long term.
Benefits of getting the highest paid off the payroll, better employee morale by showing that the company does care, and those who leave do so voluntarily.


User currently offline9252fly From Canada, joined Sep 2005, 1391 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 5949 times:



Quoting Planefxr (Reply 4):
Or that they lost their retirement during BK, and they can not afford to take the package.

That's probably the deal breaker. It's got to be a bit disheartening to work for a company for many years with the expectation you'll have a pension only to have it vaporize. Many of the employees that were likely considering the option must have thought the chances of finding rewarding work outside of the company was slim and it's possibly compounded by the realization that age is working against many of them.


User currently offlinePlanefxr From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 443 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 5916 times:



Quoting ADXMatt (Reply 5):
Why would the company want to do the right thing and offer a decent package?

Is it really cheaper to furlough the bottom 300+ making little to no money VS getting the TOP 300 who are at the TOP of the payscale? Even with a nice incentive the company would be better off with a decent package in the long term.
Benefits of getting the highest paid off the payroll, better employee morale by showing that the company does care, and those who leave do so voluntarily.



Quoting 9252fly (Reply 6):
That's probably the deal breaker. It's got to be a bit disheartening to work for a company for many years with the expectation you'll have a pension only to have it vaporize. Many of the employees that were likely considering the option must have thought the chances of finding rewarding work outside of the company was slim and it's possibly compounded by the realization that age is working against many of them.

Couple lost retirement wages and benifits with the economy being a very scary place right now. Maybe they could replace their income somewhere else, but how stable would that job be. The most senior of which at least have some job security, although there is no guarantee with that either. I feel really bad for many in this industry, so many have lost so much doing what they love to do, .....fly.


User currently offlineNwaesc From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3385 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 5857 times:



Quoting Flighty (Reply 3):
Exactly, this is a sign that UA F/As are very happy with their current work rules and pay package.


This is a wind up, right? You can't be serious.

Please tell me I missed some implied sarcasm somewhere in your message....



"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlineUALIADCS From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 5804 times:

Perhaps the package wasn't all everyone thought it would be. As I read it, it is quite similar to the CS offering. They aren't offering retirement, they are offering a severance package which includes $500 per year for each year of service plus flight benefits, no insurance.

The CS document says "severance" and then grants "retirement" flight benefits. A quick read of section 132 of the Internal Revenue Code indicates that those who are severed or separated from service (not for a disability) must treat any benefits granted as income, i.e., the flight benefits will be considered INCOME to the recipients. Only employees and "retirees" can get flight benefits tax free.

So, when you consider that they really aren't retiring, but only separating from the company, with all those years of service, why not hold out for retirement. Let the junior ones get furloughed. The package might have been lacking enough motivation.

DL offered their people retirement if age + service = 60. Many CSRs would jump on that. But a severance package without retirement benefits, and the possibility of having to be taxed on all future travel isn't that appealing.


User currently offline9252fly From Canada, joined Sep 2005, 1391 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 5789 times:



Quoting UALIADCS (Reply 9):
DL offered their people retirement if age + service = 60. Many CSRs would jump on that. But a severance package without retirement benefits, and the possibility of having to be taxed on all future travel isn't that appealing.

Could you explain the differences between DL and UA offer a bit more. Why would the travel benefits at UA be taxable,yet at DL they would not be?


User currently offlineUALIADCS From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 5663 times:

DL offered retirement, UA offered severance.

User currently offlineAAH732UAL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 5616 times:

They only got 291 b/c even for the shot timers that wanted out, it was a slap in the face. By the time all was said and done, you could expect about enough money for a pizza. What a joke.

AA probably will not fend much better, but at least they get about $4000 more then the POS UA offered.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 3):
Exactly, this is a sign that UA F/As are very happy with their current work rules and pay package.

BullSh*t that makes me actually roll on the floor. You can't think that all the F/As that did not take this are happy? OMGsh that is funny.

They only people happy right now at UA with pay is Glenn Tilton, Jake Brace, Jane Allen and the rest of his groupies.

[Edited 2008-07-15 17:54:17]

User currently offlinePlanefxr From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 443 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 5543 times:



Quoting AAH732UAL (Reply 12):
They only people happy right now at UA with pay is Glenn Tilton, Jake Brace, Jane Allen and the rest of his groupies.

Too bad they didn't take the package!  Big grin


User currently onlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8468 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 5531 times:



Quoting AAH732UAL (Reply 12):
BullSh*t that makes me actually roll on the floor. You can't think that all the F/As that did not take this are happy? OMGsh that is funny.

No, it is UA F/As being funny when they grouse and complain, yet they won't leave even when the red carpet is rolled out.

If they hate their job, they must hate the outside world even more if they are staying, right? It's a big world and these people are choosing UA as their #1 option. I know some poeple who just complain all day but in their heart, they wouldn't change a thing.


User currently offlineDualQual From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 763 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 5520 times:



Quoting Flighty (Reply 3):
Exactly, this is a sign that UA F/As are very happy with their current work rules and pay package.

Who knew Glen Tilton posted here!


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21502 posts, RR: 60
Reply 16, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 5494 times:



Quoting ADXMatt (Reply 5):
Why would the company want to do the right thing and offer a decent package?

Well, my guess is they will look to 'sweeten' the deal enough to get an addition 300 takers (which would require them to extend the offer to the 291 who already said yes).

Some bean counter at UA miscalculated the result by 1/2. Will that bean counter be laid off for horrible job performance that causes embarrassment to the company? I doubt it…  Sad

Quoting 9252fly (Reply 6):
That's probably the deal breaker. It's got to be a bit disheartening to work for a company for many years with the expectation you'll have a pension only to have it vaporize.

Can't be any worse than putting your money into savings and CDs, being already retired, and having the careless actions of one blowhard Senator lead to the wipe out of most of your nest egg after a weekend run on your bank…

Either way there are things you could do to protect yourself, but few people think their pension or bank will fail overnight. But anyone who hasn't learned that lesson NOW is living with their head in the sand.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlinePlanefxr From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 443 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 5418 times:



Quoting DualQual (Reply 15):
Who knew Glen Tilton posted here!

Maybe it was Jake?  confused 

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 16):
Some bean counter at UA miscalculated the result by 1/2. Will that bean counter be laid off for horrible job performance that causes embarrassment to the company?

They should have used DL's beancounter, he hoped for 2,000 and got 4,000, most of which were gone the end of June.


User currently offlineAAH732UAL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 5369 times:

Quoting Flighty (Reply 14):
yet they won't leave even when the red carpet is rolled out.

O BOY the red carpet club...... O boy O boy. Dude you can't be serious with that. Bunch of old arrogant passengers sitting around acting like they run the airline. WOW thanks for that laugh b/c I have had a bad day the past couple days and needed that. Plus there was no key to the Red Carpet club in the buyout. Alll they get is BP6 passes and on the top of the standby list just like every other retiree. Have no idea where you got that the red carpet club was given to them. Plus if it was, they would have enough money from the buyout to pay for a can of pop in one of the clubs.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 14):
If they hate their job, they must hate the outside world even more if they are staying, right?

I never said hate their job. They hate the way they are being crapped on by management, NOT the job itself, most still love UA just not who is running it.

Quoting DualQual (Reply 15):
Who knew Glen Tilton posted here!

Well the way this guy talks, if he is not Glenn or Jake..... he must have at least a straw in their kool aid

[Edited 2008-07-15 19:12:47]

User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21502 posts, RR: 60
Reply 19, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 5362 times:



Quoting AAH732UAL (Reply 18):
They hate the way the are being crapped on, NOT the job itself.

That's part of your job. They don't hate being F/As is what you are saying, but being an F/A for UA is being crapped on, so why not go elsewhere and be an F/A where you can love your job?



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11522 posts, RR: 61
Reply 20, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 5339 times:



Quoting AAH732UAL (Reply 12):
AA probably will not fend much better, but at least they get about $4000 more then the POS UA offered.

While I could be wrong, I suspect that AA is going to get a lot more interest with their buyout packages from flight attendants. Anecdotal, I know, but I know lots and lots of FAs (and other AA employees) who are very seriously considering taking the package and leaving the misery.


User currently offlineAAH732UAL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 5337 times:



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 19):
That's part of your job. They don't hate being F/As is what you are saying, but being an F/A for UA is being crapped on, so why not go elsewhere and be an F/A where you can love your job?

1) What airline has jobs open right now?
2) High timers lose all their company seniority.
3) They don't hate UA, just who is running it..... just like most every other employee at UA right now.


User currently offlineWeAreUnited From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 423 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 5220 times:

Interesting to note.....

Patricia Friend, AFA International President, is among those taking the early out.


User currently offlineLincoln From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3887 posts, RR: 8
Reply 23, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 5220 times:



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 16):
Some bean counter at UA miscalculated the result by 1/2

Granted I haven't been paying much (any) attention to this topic, so I don't know the details or if there's a most favored nations clause that comes in to play [and if there is how relevent it would be], but...

Most people won't lead with their best offer -- for example, when buying a car our a house, do you offer the highest price you're willing to pay from the get-go, or do you start low (but not so low that the seller will be completely offended) and work to the middle.

I'm thinking that this result is exactly what the bean counters were expecting... they got some bites at a fairly low overhead option, and now they can go back make some tweaks (that still don't result in that much cost to the company) and push it as being new and improved...

Lincoln



CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
User currently offlineUnitedSuperDC8 From United States of America, joined May 2008, 84 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 5120 times:

What's the big deal? Only 291 opted to take it. United was willing to offer it to up to 600. Now offer leaves, close foreign national bases and any remaining overage just lay off from the bottom as is outlined in the collective bargaining agreement. Negotiations should be interesting next year! Any flight attendant who can't afford their job now probably should leave now before they see what economics does to their next contract.


No thanks - keep the 'Change'.....Al Gore invented two things: the internet & global warming
25 AAH732UAL : Oops I thought that read Red Carpet Club. Still having to buy everything back and only getting about 12K/half year salary before all that stuff needs
26 ShyFlyer : I really hope it doesn't come to this, as I have a friend who will most likely be affected. Not saying that that if I didn't have a friend at United,
27 USAFDO : Accepting $12/K is barely a drop in the bucked! I know alot of government workers who have taken the governmenets $25K early out money in the past. Yo
28 Flighty : That's interesting. A few thousand bucks is a low price compared to having too many staff. If you recall, GM recently paid as much as $100,000 to hav
29 611ATL : Is this true? If so, can she still serve as President of AFA-cwa, or is that position only for a flight attendant on a member airline's active senior
30 UnitedSuperDC8 : Why offer them any more? Just lay off involuntarily from the bottom as is outlined in the contract. If they offered them $20k, the same complainers w
31 Jamake1 : The company does not want to close the foreign national bases in BKK and SIN. They are offering three month special leaves during August thru October.
32 Dutchflyboi : Trust me, CO's was a lot worse than UA's CO offered 3 options: - COLA (3,4 or 9 months) with healthcare paid by employee at employee rates, passes -
33 USAFDO : If UA has to lay off/terminate the foreign national bases BKK and/or SIN, how will they staff those flight? Dead head F/A's in from the US and make th
34 Jamake1 : BKK and SIN were closed after 9/11. They were reopened when UA started hiring flight attendants again in 2006. UA has AFA-represented flight attendant
35 USAFDO : Are foreign nationals from other countries allowed per the contract to go to different countries to staff flights, or does the UA F/A contract stipula
36 Jamake1 : US-based flight attendants can only go to AFA-represented foreign bases: FRA, HKG, LHR, and NRT. LHR is the only foreign base that has had active tran
37 F9Animal : How could they sweeten the deal? Tilton certainly won't sweeten anything, unless it benefits him. The deal is raw, and the only way to sweeten it is
38 AAJFKSJUBKLYN : I am sure UA forecast half to accept offer and that is exactly what they planned for. I am sure the same thing goes for AA. You cant possibly project
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