Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Why No Photos On US Pilot Licences?  
User currently offlineXclozano From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 17 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 5256 times:

Would anyone know why there isn't a photograph of the holder of an American FAA pilot license, like where would be on a drivers license-or on (from what I've seen) JAA pilot licenses?

I would imagine they would do this, especially in this "post 9/11" world we live in.

17 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineAcey559 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 1529 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 5199 times:

I've wondered this myself, but maybe it would be too hard since everything has to be submitted to the FAA and then sent out my mail months later. Unlike driver's licenses where it is done on site and is mostly local, pilot's licenses are all sent to the FAA and it may be difficult to keep track of everything. I thought I heard that they would be implementing photos, but that's just a lot of here say and may not be true. I suppose time will tell.

User currently offlineJimbobjoe From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 653 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 5183 times:

It already has the descriptive information (height/weight/eye color) about the bearer. That really is more than sufficient: if the document is dropped, the likelyhood that a random guy who comes along and picks it up resembles the original bearer is low.

And of course, no pilot would lend their pilot's license to someone else.

And actually, it's really easier for the FAA not to get involved in the identification card business. The FAA doesn't have to deal with the record keeping and (potential) liability issues of issuing ID cards, and, since the pilot's license really isn't an ID, people can trust the cards more readily. (Since there is no value to the card except for it being a pilot's license.)

I tell people...if the states knew half the trouble they would get into by adding photos to the driver's licenses, they probably wouldn't have. It made the document too valuable and security issues became very complex.


User currently offlineJpax From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1018 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 5175 times:

Considering we need photo-ID on us at all times, it really isn't that big of a deal to have them seperate. Our wallet will be on us anyway with all sorts of IDs inside...

User currently offlineCrewchief From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 5084 times:

It's frequently easier to take a step back from the question of "why" and instead ask "What is the problem you are trying to solve?" I simply don't see a problem of not having pictures on pilot's licenses; identification of the document holder can, and has been, performed by other means.

User currently offlineZKSUJ From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 7092 posts, RR: 12
Reply 5, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 5075 times:

None on the NZ one as well. I believe we need one here.

And why you ask, many PPLs here do not have airport ID, and theoretically anyone can pick up a lisence and pose as someone else.

Security here in NZ is less rigid than the states, and for a PPL it can be as simple as going up to the gate, showing a lisence and saying 'I have a plane outside, can I go through'. A photo ID on the lisence would make it more legit in my opinion.


User currently offlineJhooper From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 6204 posts, RR: 12
Reply 6, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 5064 times:

The FAA considered it right after 9/11. Instead, they opted to issue plastic certificates with holograms to replace the older paper ones anyone could create with Photoshop and print. Rather than place photos on the certificates, the FAA issued a requirement that pilots carry a picture ID while exercising the privileges of the pilot certificate. This accomplishes the same, from a security standpoint, as putting pictures on the certificate, while costing the FAA nothing. One could argue it's a better policy because now pilots have to carry at least three forms of ID when they fly (pilot certificate, medical certificate, photo ID).


Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
User currently offlineMhodgson From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2002, 5047 posts, RR: 25
Reply 7, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 5032 times:

No photo on my CAA licence; though we are required to carry another form of photo id.


No trees were harmed by this message. However, several million electrons were terribly inconvenienced
User currently offlineMax777geek From Italy, joined Mar 2007, 538 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 5014 times:



Quoting Xclozano (Thread starter):
Would anyone know why there isn't a photograph of the holder of an American FAA pilot license, like where would be on a drivers license-or on (from what I've seen) JAA pilot licenses?

I would imagine they would do this, especially in this "post 9/11" world we live in.

Shall you be interested, also in Italy we don't have photos on pilot licenses. But we have on fishing licenses  Smile Funny it came out an article on an italian magazine of which one reporter is famous to start "uncomfortable" investigations about things managed by the governement that could be better. One of those was regarding the airline industry, as Alitalia is falling, and he showed how easy is to be recruited as a captain without having even a car driving license :

In italian : http://espresso.repubblica.it/dettaglio/I-pirati-dei-cieli/2032007

Poorly translated in english : http://snipurl.com/2zg8h (guess you have to go to translate every page)

Basically it names a contractor pilot agency (contractair) and explain that not being a pilot the author did file up for an application, producing false documentations which nobody did check. Result : in 2 days he was called in for a check at the simulator. If Im not wrong I think I actually did read somewhere about an aviation entusiast and pretty good with flight simulator that basically did the same thing and finished up working for an airline until he was caught.


User currently offlineDispatchguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1249 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 5002 times:



Quoting Jhooper (Reply 6):
Instead, they opted to issue plastic certificates with holograms to replace the older paper ones anyone could create with Photoshop and print.

Those are still valid certificates.

I remember reading on AOPA that they are still valid for pilot certificates until 2010, and until 2013 for non-pilot airman certificates (like my dispatcher cert).

After 2013, ALL airmen must have a plastic certificate. It would be so easy to add a picture, just attach a passport image to the tempo cert paperwork that goes in to the FAA once you get a new certificate, but then it would cover those ghoulish images of Orville and Wilbur...



Nobody screws you better than an airline job!
User currently offlineGc2 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2008, 53 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 4894 times:

When we validate pilots into the restricted area we always check passports as well as the details on the licenses, however most of the Europeans have swipe ID cards too. There are secondary checks we can also do, so its a pretty thorough system without photos on licenses.

User currently offlineBond007 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 5408 posts, RR: 8
Reply 11, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 4870 times:



Quoting Jimbobjoe (Reply 2):
since the pilot's license really isn't an ID, people can trust the cards more readily. (Since there is no value to the card except for it being a pilot's license.)

That's the bottom line folks. AFAIK It simply isn't used as a method of identification, or for entry purposes. When you start a new flying job, there is usually enough background checking done to ensure you are, who you say you are, and that you have the required qualifications, licenses, and ratings.



Jimbo



I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
User currently offlineDw747400 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 1258 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (6 years 1 month 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 4769 times:

Also, in theory a single license can remain in use for a very long period of time. Assuming no additional regulations change the status quo and I don't pursue any additional ratings, the Commercial Certificate I earned a few weeks ago at 23 could still be in my wallet at 60. Doesn't do much good to have a photo on that. Of course, you could mandate they be updated every 10 years or some other period, but that adds cost and complexity the the rating.

Why do this when we have a perfectly valid alternative: a driver's license or other photo ID.



CFI--Certfied Freakin Idiot
User currently offlineAcey559 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 1529 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (6 years 1 month 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 4639 times:

All this makes sense, but I've got one quick and unrelated question. Does anyone know what the credit card-style magnetic strip on the back of the license is for? When I got my PPL in 2006, that license didn't have the mag strip, but when I got my Instrument Rating last May my new license had a mag strip on the back and I haven't really got a firm answer as to what it's for. Any info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

User currently offlineCXB744 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 215 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 years 1 month 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 4611 times:

The Federal Air Regualtions (FARs) do not allow an FAA Pilots licence to expire like drivers licence. Because of this a Photo cannot be added, because that would require updating every so often.

Also, an FAA pilot's licence is the property of the pilot, not the government like a diriver's license. We only have to show it on request, never surrender it, EVER! Privleges can be taken away at anytime, however.



What is it? It's A 747-400, but that's not important right now.
User currently offlineDispatchguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1249 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (6 years 1 month 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 4590 times:



Quoting CXB744 (Reply 14):
Also, an FAA pilot's licence is the property of the pilot,

No, its not. It is the property of the FAA, who can revoke and order the surrender of the actual card in addition to the privileges thereunder when they so choose, and have a reason to.

You tell a "friendly" Uncle Fed that your pilots certificate is your property, and see how far that gets ya...



Nobody screws you better than an airline job!
User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7537 posts, RR: 8
Reply 16, posted (6 years 1 month 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4517 times:

They are moving to ID's with photo ID's within the next two years and all pilots will be required to have them. At least that is what the FAA told UND Flight Ops.


"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineDispatchguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1249 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (6 years 1 month 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 4390 times:



Quoting Dispatchguy (Reply 9):
I remember reading on AOPA that they (the grey on white cardboard certificates) are still valid for pilot certificates until 2010, and until 2013 for non-pilot airman certificates (like my dispatcher cert).

You are correct Burnsie...



Nobody screws you better than an airline job!
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Why No Flights Between US West Coast & Brazil? posted Wed Mar 12 2008 04:06:58 by Amax1977
Why No Seatmap On NW? posted Sun Dec 2 2007 06:07:39 by Windowplease
Why No Windows On This KLM 744? posted Tue Apr 3 2007 20:08:00 by 22right
Why No Codeshare On ATL-AMS For DL/KL posted Fri Mar 16 2007 02:04:46 by Ushermittwoch
Why No A340's In US Airlines? posted Wed Feb 28 2007 05:26:29 by Dutchdragon
Why No Winglets On British Registered B757's? posted Wed Nov 22 2006 12:06:25 by KA501
Why No Tupolev In US posted Tue Oct 31 2006 23:02:27 by KingAirMan
Why No Geveva On Thomsonfly & Astraeus Website? posted Wed Oct 25 2006 14:15:43 by 8herveg
Why No Winglets On 787! posted Sat Oct 7 2006 20:27:37 by Bringiton
Why No F Class On AA 767-300s posted Thu Sep 14 2006 03:20:59 by Albird87