Wedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5534 posts, RR: 5 Reply 3, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 4050 times:
Just a little off the subject, but wasn't "JK" the two letter identifier for Sunworld Airways out of LAS back in the mid to late 1980s?
MD11junkie From Argentina, joined May 2005, 3091 posts, RR: 60 Reply 7, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3817 times:
Quoting Acelanzarote (Reply 6): If a third of the staff are going will this not affect more that 9 routes in the end?
I believe you need to look whether those 900 jobs include the crews of the proposed grounded planes. If so, I believe they'll try to concentrate their workforce into more work time day-to-day. Those 900 axed jobs, might also include ground and sales staff in those destinations.
How does this leave JK network-wise?
Saludos.
There is no such thing as Boeing vs Airbus as the queen of the skies has three engines, winglets and the sweetest nose!
UPPERDECKFAN From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 992 posts, RR: 1 Reply 8, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3745 times:
The cut on MAD-MUC surprises me a little bit because of the potential feed from/to LH, although the one that surprises me the most is BCN-ZRH, not only because of feed from/to LX long haul network but also the lack of competition from IB at BCN.
Rogerbcn From Andorra, joined Sep 2006, 1136 posts, RR: 19 Reply 9, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3709 times:
Hola Upperdeckfan!
Quoting UPPERDECKFAN (Reply 8): the one that surprises me the most is BCN-ZRH, not only because of feed from/to LX long haul network but also the lack of competition from IB at BCN.
It does not surprise me at all. There are already three daily LX flights serving the BCN-ZRH route. I use to fly them quite often and while LX flights are usually crowded, even full sometimes, the JK one is about 50% occupancy. Let me add that the difference is service is as well another big pushback, LX uses quite new A321s while JK used shabby MD80s or the B717.
BTW, there is a daily XG BCN-ZRH flight, under the IB 5000s number.
Salut,
Roger
"At reise er at leve" H.C. Andersen (Travelling is Living)
Acelanzarote From Spain, joined Nov 2005, 783 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3671 times:
Are Spanair going to stop collecting B.717's off the second hand market
I beleive there is one at Miami now on overhaul for them?
Sure looks like the MD87 is on the way out, recently flew on
one of their MD83's and although it was a bit tatty inside
it was really nice and quiet in the cabin!
from the Island with sun and great photo's.. Why not visit Lanzarote
RAFVC10 From Spain, joined Sep 2005, 1980 posts, RR: 7 Reply 11, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3635 times:
Other notices heard are that agreements with Aerolineas Argentinas and Air Comet will be closed due to no paid flights in connexion to many destinations in South America.
Rogerbcn From Andorra, joined Sep 2006, 1136 posts, RR: 19 Reply 12, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3562 times:
Hola Gerard!
Quoting RAFVC10 (Reply 11): I think they will axe one daily flight or maybe two but I don't believe to see the route close down and leave it in FR hands.
I have no idea how many of the three scheduled flights will be axed but tis route has always struggled to be profitable. IB tried in the past and shut it down, so I won't be surprised that they close it altogether.
FR only offers a daily flight to MAD and not the best timing.
Salut,
Roger
"At reise er at leve" H.C. Andersen (Travelling is Living)
UPPERDECKFAN From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 992 posts, RR: 1 Reply 13, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3533 times:
Quoting Rogerbcn (Reply 9): It does not surprise me at all. There are already three daily LX flights serving the BCN-ZRH route. I use to fly them quite often and while LX flights are usually crowded, even full sometimes, the JK one is about 50% occupancy. Let me add that the difference is service is as well another big pushback, LX uses quite new A321s while JK used shabby MD80s or the B717.
Hola Roger
A shame they couldn't strike a deal with LX to keep their metal in ZRH,
Quoting Rogerbcn (Reply 9): BTW, there is a daily XG BCN-ZRH flight, under the IB 5000s number.
You're right, but when I say no competition from IB was referring to IB mainline since XG offers LCC model (100% O/D and no premium class).
R2rho From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2252 posts, RR: 1 Reply 15, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 3261 times:
It seems like it will be 1,100 jobs (almost a third of the workforce). Despite the cuts, JK will remain the second Spanish airline with 260 daily flights to 48 destinations.
I guess this was to be expected, after SAS failed to sell the airline they will now try to make it profitable and that means cuts - although I have to admit these are very severe. Six of the routes axed are out of MAD - will JK end up retrenching into BCN? I still think the potential of JK is still not used to its full extent, with the potential synergies with SK and LH you would be expecting more performance from this carrier - hopefully they will eventually achieve it.
Rogerbcn From Andorra, joined Sep 2006, 1136 posts, RR: 19 Reply 16, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 3216 times:
Hola R2rho!
Quoting R2rho (Reply 15): I still think the potential of JK is still not used to its full extent, with the potential synergies with SK and LH you would be expecting more performance from this carrier - hopefully they will eventually achieve it.
I totally agree with you, I think they could achieve more potential with all the routes presently served from BCN and their ties with LH, SK and LX.
Salut!
Roger
"At reise er at leve" H.C. Andersen (Travelling is Living)
Aisak From Spain, joined Aug 2005, 757 posts, RR: 11 Reply 17, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2977 times:
Quoting Acelanzarote (Reply 6): If Spanair are looking at savings, how long before Air Euorpa follows?
Air Europa has such low costs that I don't think they will suffer so much. They also have two great advantages: PAR and NYC. Air Europa and AF (+ Régional + Britair) serve several routes linking Spain and Paris. And it's Paris. Even if it's on dirty cheap tickets (and with their pitch they can afford them) they can fly great amounts of passengers to Paris, a great tourist destination. And let's not forget CDG is one of the big hubs in Europe where you can connect to everywhere. Also CO (with a UX codeshare) and Delta fly from both BCN and MAD to NYC, the most important US destination from Spain with several connections available on Air Europa (Spanish side) and DL/CO (at NYC).
Worse than before. And before wasn´t good either. JK just axed PNA-MAD last May. At least they could have waited till San Fermin. But that's how they usual work. They launch a route, mainly from MAD. And they fly up to 3 flights a day. Big marketing about it, great schedules for business passengers, end of IB - YW monopoly, better service, lower prices.... only to fly planes half empty. They tweak schedules making them even worse but with lower operating costs for the company. It doesn't work out (surprising I know) and frequency is cut to 2xdaily while competitors add flights and destinations from that airport. It doesn't work either (big surprise again I know) and finnaly axe the route and that's when local authorities claim "wow, it's a surprise. We know the flight is doing great and someone will come for sure to replace them". Already seen with SDR, OVD, PNA, GRO, XRY
Spanair has a HUGE problem: lack of network planning. They claim to be a big domestic player. But that's it. There's no one to feed. MAD lacks of Star long-haul destinations. PHL is not MIA, is not JFK, is not EWR and not ATL and the worst thing about PHL: It's severely congested to be a good hub. Air Canada has recently launched flights to YYZ: maybe too late. As well as AirChina with GRU and PEK. TG might have a good Asia gateway but their flgiht to BKK were lauched via FCO. And SQ lunched flights to BCN but via MXP. That really makes JK a weak feeder for longhaulers. On the other hand we have Air Plus and Aerolineas Argentinas but we know how that ends....
For their Euopean partners.. well. BMI axed MAD-LHR some time ago, and every single flight JK launches is marketed as "and offers great connection oportunities with our Star Alliance parter XXX". Flights to FRA, MUC, VIE, ZRH, CPH... just to feed these carriers. Too east for North-America (although acceptable) too north-east for South-America, too north for Africa, and the best option which would be Asia via CPH,because of geography, (and on SAS themselves) has never been fully looked into.
Quoting R2rho (Reply 15): Despite the cuts, JK will remain the second Spanish airline with 260 daily flights to 48 destinations.
Spanair only serves 24 spanish airports currently. GRO will go away. And they don't serve 24 foreign aiports. Not even with codeshares.
Quoting R2rho (Reply 15): I still think the potential of JK is still not used to its full extent
Spanair should accept its role. They are small (comparing it with IB is not a good idea) but the could have been big in BCN. MAD now faces a serious competitor on several routes. MAD-SVQ is only flown by IB becauseof the train. MAD-AGP and MAD-BCN will likely go that way. The same will happen on MAD-VLC from 2010 on. Cities in the north will see train travel times greatly reduced as rail works go on, making air travel only useful fr connections. And that's where JK has lots of passengers to lose. On the othe hand, there's no train competition from BCN. Routes are so long that the train would take too long and has to go via MAD anyway... That's were JK could find its own market.
Now it's just a choice to complement IB offers. Go with one carrier, return with the other. Or just feed IB's longhaul planes with interline (that's the reason why the wanted to share T4)
thats a good point! leave MAD to IB and concentrate to BCN which is even closer to Europe than MAD. as for domestic flights such as BIO - BCN - SVQ it is more convenient to fly direct BIO - MAD - SVQ, but they can make if they do it right!
Quoting Rogerbcn (Reply 9):
It does not surprise me at all. There are already three daily LX flights serving the BCN-ZRH route. I use to fly them quite often and while LX flights are usually crowded, even full sometimes, the JK one is about 50% occupancy. Let me add that the difference is service is as well another big pushback, LX uses quite new A321s while JK used shabby MD80s or the B717.
There had also been some complaints from people booked on LX flight numbers and ending up on a JK codeshare, as they apparently expected something different from a "LX" flight.
6xWeekly flights don't seem to me like a great monopoly breaker
Quoting Acelanzarote (Reply 6): If a third of the staff are going will this not affect more that 9 routes in the end?
They've just announced only MAD and BCN will retain the base status. This means that... wait for it... BIO, PMI, LPA, AGP and TFS will be considered mere desinations.
7 bases, 7 types of planes and, as they say "48 destinations" seem the fastest way to this current situation.
Humberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4901 posts, RR: 5 Reply 23, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 1601 times:
Quoting Aisak (Reply 21): This means that... wait for it... BIO, PMI, LPA, AGP and TFS will be considered mere desinations.
Acelanzarote From Spain, joined Nov 2005, 783 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 1418 times:
Good question, about the charter work as a number of A320/1's work from
ACE/LPA/TFS all the time. Does this mean the based crew at TFS will
disappear? If so will crews from MAD/BCN work the charters and
end up in hotels out based?
from the Island with sun and great photo's.. Why not visit Lanzarote
25 Aisak: I don't know but I guess there won't be any charter network for the time being. To me, charter is highly dependant on Travel agencies. Marsans owned
26 Humberside: I was thinking more about charters for non-Spanish companies, such as Spanair's HUY-PMI for Thomas Cook/Airtours. Are they also poor financial perfor
27 Acelanzarote: Hi Humberside I have no idea on the answer to your question but Spanair does do a lot of charter work to the UK/Ireland/Italy etc on behalf of compani
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